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Thread: Wiring....

  1. #1
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    Wiring....

    Ok so I am starting, really starting because I have been procrastinating this step, to do the wiring. I am a complete novice at it, so I will be asking all my stupid questions here! So stay tuned and come back often! haha

    These wire say alternator. My alternator does not have a plug on it, let alone two plugs. So first question is. Cut the plug off, and use one as ground and one as power? or put them both to power, which seems logical since they are both red, and run a ground to the frame? second question. Where does this plug with yellow and white/black stripe wire go?


    This is the alternators backside

  2. #2
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    If that is a Ron Francis harness, read the book a couple of times and check the schematics. I had your same question (and setup) and if I recall correctly, the schematic shows what to do with a one-wire alternator (cut off the red wire connector, put lugs on both wires , and affix them to the same post on the alternator). I do not think that I used the non-red wires with the gray connector.

    Brian

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    Brain is right. Connect both reds to the red stud on the alternator. either cut and cap the other wires or just hide the plug.
    Mike

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    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    My ALTERNATOR instructions said to run ONE wire, 10 ga., from the post on the alternator, directly to the Battery Positive, which is what I did (although through a 50 Amp circuit breaker/cutoff switch). Then the big positive battery cable goes to the starter solenoid, and then branches off to the using units, such as the Ron Francis fuse panel. You may have a master cutoff between the battery and the starter solenoid or solenoid and fuse panel, etc. I have my feed coming off the starter solenoid through a 100 Amp circuit breaker/cutoff switch to my dash using units.

    See page 8 in the FFR Chassis Wiring Harness Installation Instructions (I have version L). That talks about the alternator wiring. The schematic is page 16, middle of the manual.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boat737 View Post
    My ALTERNATOR instructions said to run ONE wire, 10 ga., from the post on the alternator, directly to the Battery Positive, which is what I did (although through a 50 Amp circuit breaker/cutoff switch)...
    Your 50 amp circuit breaker may be too small. Most alternators are rated for more current than that.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
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    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
    Your 50 amp circuit breaker may be too small. Most alternators are rated for more current than that.
    Thanks King. Yeah, I could never really get a definitive answer on that. The engine builder said put in a breaker 'tween the alternator and battery, but was less than specific on the amperage. When I asked they thought 50 amp. So far everything is working fine during my massive 15 miles I have on the car. I can always go bigger if needed. (It's one of the few things that is easy to access. Imagine that.) Better more protection than less during the shakeout I hope.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
    Basic Stuff: MK4 Complete Kit #8439, Wilwood's, 17" Halibrands. Extra Stuff: Stainless brake and fuel lines, Breeze cooling, Battery mount, SS Roll Bar. Old Fart Stuff: Heater, Seat Heaters, Footbox Fresh Air, Stereo, Keyless ignition, Power Steering, Hyd Clutch.
    Young & Dumb Stuff: 427w Dart, TKO600, 3 link Moser M9/Ford 9", 3.5:1, Eaton TruTrac Posi. Graduation Thread

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    Thanks guys... It is my birthday next wednesday, and my parents will be here... I would like to do a first start with him and my mom here....

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    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    From post #230 of my build thread (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...r-build-3.html ):

    Today I eliminated the alternator branch on my Ron Francis wiring harness. NOTE: This will only work if you’re using a one-wire alternator AND if you’re solenoid is integrated with your starter motor.

    The RF instructions tell you to “run the alternator wires along the top of the engine to the alternator.” They also state that “if you’re using a one-wire alternator to cut the large plug off the wires and attach two 10-12 ga. ring connectors to the two large wires and attach them to the post on the alternator. The other plug and wires are not used.”

    I’m using a one-wire alternator, so I did as instructed. In the process, I discovered that all of the red wires coming out of the alternator branch joined a couple of inches from the far end of the branch.

    It didn’t make any sense to me to connect two wires to the alternator that joined not eight inches later, so I cut those out as well.

    IMG_2530 by jhsitton, on Flickr

    That left me with a single 8 ga. wire to get through the firewall, and a smaller brown wire that wasn’t going to be used.

    My starter solenoid is integrated with the starter as an assembly; that is to say, I don’t have an external solenoid, so I suspected the 8 ga. wire could probably be routed more efficiently. I traced this and the brown wire back towards the fuse box (unwrapping the harness as I went), and discovered that the small brown wire is supposed to be connected to the ignition switch, and that the 8 ga. wire came from the starter solenoid.

    I left the brown wire in place on the ignition switch branch (in case I lose my mind and replace the one-wire alternator with a 1987-1993 Mustang one). I removed the 8 ga. wire from the starter solenoid branch and replaced it with the brown wire (so that it now goes from the ignition switch to the trunk of the harness and then down the starter solenoid branch to my starter motor). I folded the end of the brown wire over on itself and sealed the end with heat shrink. That way it’s mostly in place if I ever need it.

    I then re-wrapped everything on the harness that I took apart. I still have to re-secure the starter solenoid branch along the underside of the firewall forward. That’s going to be a bear with the bell housing blocking access.

    I’ll run the 8 ga. wire from the starter solenoid forward along the 4” tube and then come straight up to the alternator. [NOTE: I later moved the alternator wire to go from the starter solenoid up the back of the engine and then forward through the valve cover valley to the alternator post. MUCH cleaner look.] That ought to eliminate at least 5 feet from a 100A electrical run.

    This dieting would have been WAY easier if I’d looked at my alternator more closely while the engine and harness was still out of the car.


    John

    P.S. The bar code on your alternator just visible at the bottom of the picture will probably have a part number on it. A google search will probably yield the alternator specifications, including the maximum output current. That will tell you what size maxi-fuse you need.
    Last edited by phileas_fogg; 08-06-2017 at 05:06 PM.
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  9. #9
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    Thanks John... Ill read over your thread more in depth tonight...

  10. #10
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    I have the gps gauges.... From what I can find I do not need these wires in the front engine bay. Is this wrong or right? the four wires in question are the fan thermos temp switch, oil pressure, oil temp, and water temp. All but the fan thermo look to be replaces by wires and sensors supplied with the gauges.


  11. #11
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Those wires give you options. I personally did not use any of them. Instead I eliminated the entire RF sending units harness and did the following:

    Oil Temp Wire: Not used, since I don't have an oil temp gauge and don't plan to install one (my car will almost exclusively be used on the street). If you do have or want an oil temp gauge, you MAY choose to used this wire to get signal from your sensor to behind the dash.

    Oil Pressure Wire: I used the two wire sensor and associated wiring provided with my gauges. I physically ran the sensor wiring where RF would have you run the sending units harness: From behind the dash, through the hole at the upper corner of the driver foot box into the engine compartment, down behind the back of the engine to the 4" tube, along the 4" tube to the front of the engine, and then up to the sensor at the side of my Ford 302 engine.

    Water Temp Wire: Again, I used the sensor and associated wiring provided with my gauges. I physically ran the sensor wiring through the center of the firewall (along with all the other wiring for my fuel injection system) forward along the driver side valve cover valley to a sensor located in the thermostat housing. NOTE: If you don't have EFI, you can put the coolant temperature sensor in the port at the front of your engine. If you do have EFI you'll probably need two sensors: one sensor feeds the EFI computer, and one sensor feeds your gauge. DO NOT try to use a single sensor to feed both the EFI computer and your gauge!

    Fan Thermo Switch: I let my EFI computer control the fan. NOTE: RF provides two wires capable of controlling your fan. One is in the sending units harness, is typically connected to a sensor located in a port at the front of your engine, and is generally the preferred RF-provided option. The other wire is in the front harness, and is typically connected to a sensor located in your radiator.

    Finally, if you choose to leave an unused wire in place, bend the wire back on itself and put some heat shrink over the fold & unused end. That will eliminate the chance of the bare end accidentally touching something it shouldn't and giving you a problem.

    Cheers,


    John
    Last edited by phileas_fogg; 05-21-2017 at 01:09 PM.
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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    Thanks John. That's what i was thinking. Just needed a little confirmation. I do use the choke wire from that loom. Everything else will be caped off and sealed. Only thing I am worried about is the fan switch. I'd like it automatic, but we will see since I don't have an efi engine to control all that.

  13. #13
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    If you've got the complete kit, I'm pretty sure F5 provided a coolant temperature sensor in addition to the one provided with the Speedhut gauges. I recommend you put the fan sensor in the block and put the gauge sensor in the thermostat housing. My thermostat housing didn't have a port for the temperature sensor, so I replaced it with this: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6051080. I used Permatex Right Stuff rather than a gasket.

    Use a jeweler's screwdriver to remove the pins for the unused wires from the connector on the sending units harness and remove the unused oil pressure, oil temperature, and water temperature wires. That will free up space in the wire loom for the Speedhut water temperature gauge wire. You can run the modified sending units harness - which now contains just the green RF thermo switch wire, orange RF electric choke wire, purple RF tach wire, and the Speedhut water temperature gauge wire - through the valve cover valley to the front of the engine. Fork the wires where it makes sense, and you'll have a sweet clean installation.

    Cheers,


    John

    NOTE: The Speedhut oil pressure sensor wire is now separated from the sending units harness, as it runs down to the 4" tube as described previously.
    Last edited by phileas_fogg; 05-21-2017 at 06:25 PM.
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  14. #14
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    I did not buy the complete kit... I actually bought a basic kit from someone. Who hadn't started it.. I kind of wish I hadn't.... It's been a lot of trouble and issues

  15. #15
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Every day is a new problem to solve for sure. Sometimes solving one problem reveals a bunch you didn't know were there, some of which are self-inflicted!

    Stick with it though, and you'll be rewarded with the coolest ride around.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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    So, to get me going, can I put both temp sensors(one for the gauge, and one for the fan switch) on the top front side of the intake manifold? One on the left and one on the right?

  17. #17
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Yes, unless you also have a heater. Then you'll want the heater feed on the passenger side front and the gauge feed in the t-stat housing.

    And the leg bone's connected to the ankle bone...


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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    No heater.... Thanks so much John for my stupid questions

  19. #19
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    No worries. We're all in this together.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  20. #20
    Senior Member chmhasy's Avatar
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    awd-turbo what alternator are you using, part number would help

    Thanks

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    Chmhasy- I have the alternator wired up...

    I have been moving slow with wiring and getting everything squared away. Couple of wires that I think I do not need. What are your opinions?


    I have a 427w with a quickfuel carb, and a tko600 tranny. I am running the gps gauges. The wires that I have ruled out are as followed. But I am not 100% sure if my ruling is right..

    Coil-Tach- No since i am using the gps gauges?
    speed sensor????
    Coil or efi- It is a red wire, I have no idea what it is for, I cant find it in the wiring Diagram
    EFI crank- No since I do not have EFI

  22. #22
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    Chmhasy- I have the alternator wired up...

    I have been moving slow with wiring and getting everything squared away. Couple of wires that I think I do not need. What are your opinions?


    I have a 427w with a quickfuel carb, and a tko600 tranny. I am running the gps gauges. The wires that I have ruled out are as followed. But I am not 100% sure if my ruling is right..

    Coil-Tach- No since i am using the gps gauges?
    speed sensor????
    Coil or efi- It is a red wire, I have no idea what it is for, I cant find it in the wiring Diagram
    EFI crank- No since I do not have EFI
    In reverse order:

    EFI Crank (RF light blue wire) - hot only when key is at start; you won't need this.
    Coil or EFI (RF orange wire) - hot when key is at on AND at start; use it to power your coil. Look at the wiring diagram on page 15 of your RF manual; you'll see it comes out of the Battery Feed section of the fuse box.
    Speed Sensor (RF dark green wire & RF grey wire) - Not needed because you've got the GPS speedo.
    Coil-Tach (RF purple wire) - Connect this to your tach signal wire. The other end of this wire is in the Sending Units harness, and connects to the negative side of your coil's power circuit.

    You didn't mention the Electric Choke (RF tan wire). As the name implies, it provides power to your electric choke. If you don't have one, then you can re-purpose this 10A circuit for something else (like foot box blower fans or a seat heater); just be sure to write down what you did somewhere you won't lose it. If you end up not using this circuit at all, just pull the fuse.

    Cheers,


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  23. #23
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    Thanks John. I have my electric choke hooked up... Those other wires where ones not run anywhere yet, and i was trying to trace them out last night...

  24. #24
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Then you're making good progress. On my car, I capped off the speed sensor wires, coiled them up, and left them behind the dash.


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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    I have been keeping all my wires intact.. I put a heat shrink over the end, then wrap the end with electrical tape, and then tape them up so they arent hanging anywhere.

    I do have one sensor on the end of the TK0 600... It looks to be nothing I need, since I dont have a computer!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    I do have one sensor on the end of the TK0 600... It looks to be nothing I need, since I dont have a computer!
    I have the same one. Just gonna cut it off and keep it as a plug. The only sensor I'm using on the 600 is the reverse switch, and I had to order a connector for that. Dont forget to get a block off plate for the speedo / big rubber plug in the side if you're not using it...
    ---Boyd---
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  27. #27
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    I do have one sensor on the end of the TK0 600... It looks to be nothing I need, since I dont have a computer!
    There are actually four sensors/sensor locations on the TKO600. Left front, backup. Left center, external vehicle speed sensor. Cover if not used as stated. Left rear, neutral safety. Right center, internal vehicle speed sensor.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member chmhasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    Chmhasy- I have the alternator wired up...

    I have been moving slow with wiring and getting everything squared away. Couple of wires that I think I do not need. What are your opinions?


    I have a 427w with a quickfuel carb, and a tko600 tranny. I am running the gps gauges. The wires that I have ruled out are as followed. But I am not 100% sure if my ruling is right..

    Coil-Tach- No since i am using the gps gauges?
    speed sensor????
    Coil or efi- It is a red wire, I have no idea what it is for, I cant find it in the wiring Diagram
    EFI crank- No since I do not have EFI
    Awd-turbo, I am actually in the middle of doing my build and was wondering what alternator you are using. for I need to order a alternator for my car

  29. #29
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    Ahhh ok man... I'll snag the part number tomorrow for you...

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    John,
    Coil efi wire on page 15 runs to a blue wire. There is no dotted line to it though. Should I put them together?

  31. #31
    Senior Member chmhasy's Avatar
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    Thanks

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    Model 7127-sen-100a1g
    Thats mainly all the information on the alternator

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    Ok almost done. Two questions..

    1) gps gauges. The white wires from the gauges(24 gauge wires) connect to what? I have them going to gauge feed wire (brown)

    2)the red wire from the gauges ( 3 wire pig tail) goes to what? It looks like it goes to the start on the ignition switch??? The voltage wire for the gauge also goes to the same place.

  34. #34
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    John,
    Coil efi wire on page 15 runs to a blue wire. There is no dotted line to it though. Should I put them together?
    Hmmm. I don't see the Coil or EFI (RF orange) going to a blue wire. I would not connect them just yet.

    Just to be sure we're looking at the same thing, here's a link to Rev N of the RF installation instructions: http://www.ronfrancis.com/images/FFR06-INST.pdf . The wire to which I'm referring is 5th from the top coming out of the right hand side of the fuse box. It isn't shown connecting to anything; just a blank over by the key switch.

    On my car, I connected this Coil or EFI (RF orange wire) to the positive side of my MSD 8227 coil, as shown at the top of page 2 here: http://documents.msdperformance.com/8227.pdf .


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

  35. #35
    Senior Member phileas_fogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awd-turbo View Post
    Ok almost done. Two questions..

    1) gps gauges. The white wires from the gauges(24 gauge wires) connect to what? I have them going to gauge feed wire (brown)

    2)the red wire from the gauges ( 3 wire pig tail) goes to what? It looks like it goes to the start on the ignition switch??? The voltage wire for the gauge also goes to the same place.
    The red wire from the gauges goes to the Gauge Feed (RF brown wire); this is what provides power to your gauges.

    The white wires on the gauges provide lighting. From Jeff Kleiner (Post #10 of http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...-question.html ):

    “Next move on to gauge lighting. The white wire from all of the gauges connects to the RF harness white "dash lights" wire. If you have the seperate dimmer module the white harness "dash lights" wire connects to the input of the dimmer; the dimmer's black ground connects to the black harness ground. From there the dimmers output snaps into the connectors for the lighter gauge wire. It seems redundant but is this way because the needles are lighted independently from the gauge face and are not dimmed. If you do not have the dimmer module then the small white wire at the end of the snap together chain also connects to the harness "dash lights" wire. By the way, before you drive yourself crazy thinking something is wrong the hands on the clock are not lighted.”

    Cheers,


    John
    MK IV Roadster #8631
    Ford 302, Holley Terminator EFI, T5z, 3.55 Rear End, IRS, 17” Halibrand Replicas (9” front, 10.5” rear), Nitto 555 G2’s (275/40ZR17 front, 315/35ZR17 rear), Fast Freddie’s Power Steering, F5 Wilwood Brakes, FFMetal’s Firewall Forward, Forte’s Hydraulic Clutch & Throttle Linkage
    https://www.ffcars.com/threads/phile.../#post-4776313

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