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Thread: Gas mileage

  1. #1
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    Gas mileage

    I was talking to a coyote powered owner (the car!) last week and he mentioned geting 30 mpg with 400 hp and a friend with a 427 getting 4 mpg. Just wondering what people have observed? I would guess 4 is a little low. I am a newbe on any info on the coyote, but you could save 1500 on up per year in fuel. That could make the coyote pay for its price difference fairly quickly. I ask beacause forgetting the non-original look it seems like a strong option for the car! Although I don't know the price difference from a "typical" crate motor and basic coyote?
    Last edited by Just puttering; 05-19-2017 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Misterfubar's Avatar
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    In before the "if you're worried about gas mileage you're in the wrong car" comments.

    My Coyote powered roadster isn't on the road yet, but I am interested to see what everyone else has to say about it. Economy wasn't a major factor when I decided on that powerplant, but it did give a few points to my decision.

  3. #3

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    Obviously, the more cubes you're feeding, the more fuel it takes. But 4 mpg is absurd. My previous 427W got 20-22 mpg depending on how I drove it. 4mpg means the engine was not tuned well, was not running efficiently, and was not making near the power it should be.
    .boB "Iron Man"
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    BDR 1642: Coyote, 6 Speed Auto, Edelbrock Supercharger
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  4. #4
    Senior Member luvaz's Avatar
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    To the OP-

    I've had 2 different engines in my MK 3 roadster.
    The 1st was a '89 5.0 efi. Bone stock. It got 18-22 mpg.

    Several years ago I put in a hand built 427w with dual quads. It is a beast. Spirited street driving has yielded as little as 8 mpg, while a freeway trip got 17 mpg. So I'd say An avg mpg is about 14-ish mpg.

    HTH,
    Will
    FFR MK III picked up 9/24/05 Roller 9/28/05 First start & go-cart 11/28/05 red w/white stripes, PC Chassis, heat/defrost, FFR 15's, pwr footbox vents, radio delete, dual quad 427W, 4 link w/3.27's, Koni's all around, Gen 1 rag top, snapless tonneau, Herb's door panels, NRC rear discs, Breeze head rest, ********** emblems, Paint by Gino's in Rowley, MA
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  5. #5
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    I am not green, or worried about gas milage, just old and old school, is the new computer control and ??? On the coyote worth the trouble or just go ahead with an old school carb or efi motor?

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    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just puttering View Post
    ...the coyote worth the trouble or just go ahead with an old school carb or efi motor?
    I agree with the comments if you're worried about gas mileage this is probably the wrong car. I also can't imagine how many miles you're planning to drive to save 'thousands' per year. But to the point, I've had two carb'd SBF's. Both reasonably well tuned. Gas mileage anywhere from the low teens to around 20 depending on town or highway, how aggressive, etc. Pretty much what you would expect. I'm literally on my first tank in my new Coyote build. Strictly town driving, but I can tell it's going to be 20+. Pretty much what others have reported. Not hard to figure out it's running more efficiently given how well it starts and runs, zero exhaust smell, etc. The only real criticism of the Coyote that sticks, IMO, is that it doesn't look or sound old school. Beyond that, it's all good. Agreed it's a little more work to wire, but then it's done. It just runs. The fit is tight, but with the most recent sheet metal, motor mounts, headers, etc. it all works and is pretty well sorted out. The value proposition is strong. Compare the delivered HP and torque to an old school crate motor. Especially if you add EFI, the Coyote is cheaper. I know. I did the math. Yes there are cheaper options, e.g. donor, doing a bunch of work yourself, etc. But you will be hard pressed to match the performance dollar for dollar. Especially if you want to take an engine out of a crate and install it. Plus the Coyote has a decent warranty. I was skeptical at first as well. But was talked into it and now highly recommend it. Check my #8674 build thread for one of the early installations of a Gen 2 Coyote. Link in my sig line below.
    Last edited by edwardb; 05-20-2017 at 05:28 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  8. #7
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    I would comment that if he is achieving 30 mpg with a Coyote he isn't having nearly enough fun with the car! Just got mine on the road so I don't have enough data to figure any mileage yet and I am having a fair amount of fun with the gas pedal so if I get 15-17 early on I will be pleased.

    For what its worth the Ford website lists the Mustang GT as "up to 15 city/25 highway".
    Edmunds lists the combined number at 18
    Ford also lists the curb weight at 3705 lbs,

    Someone smarter than me could possibly come up with a decent idea what our lighter cars could expect.
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
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  9. #8

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    I would comment that if he is achieving 30 mpg with a Coyote he isn't having nearly enough fun with the car!

    Amen, I Say & Again I Say Amen!

  10. #9
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    I have 3500+ miles on my Coyote and have kept a gas log from the very first tank. The first 1800 miles was driven with a .82 fifth gear (rear end ratio 3.55) and the gas mileage averaged about 19 mpg. I changed out the fifth gear to the .64 ratio and gas mileage improved to 21 mpg. I have some freeway miles as well as city and give passengers a taste of what it can do in short spurts but other wise the driving is mostly calm and a lot of fifth gear. All this is with premium fuel but I don't think regular grade would make much difference.

    If you are trying to get Coyote buy in from the CEO on pay back, keep the first post and throw away all the others.
    Last edited by 2bking; 05-20-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Dave Howard's Avatar
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    My 2012 Coyote has been tuned (488 HP) and driven across our great countries 3 times. 18,000 plus miles. The first trip I kept pretty good records of mileage and fuel consumption. The kinda thing you do with a new ride. I found on the highway doing 60-70 mph I was getting 23 mpg. Oops, that's that imperial gallon. So, mpg (US) was 19. That's with 331 gears in the Moser rear end and 0.64 5th gear in the TKO600. If I did the speed limit and didn't have an insatiable urge to pass slow traffic the mileage would be much better. It is not uncommon to get 5 hours from a tank of fuel while touring.

    I've been a huge supporter of the Coyote from day one. No build thread to keep plugging, but I've posted numerous comments over the years on the "pros" of the Coyote. Once again;

    - Super strong modern horse power. With 4 bolt mains and cross bolts you'll have a hard time pounding the bottom end out of these engines.
    - Contrary to some build threads, the Coyote install is easy. Well documented instructions from FFR and Ford. True plug and play technology.
    - The Coyote is a little wider than a SBF but no wider than a big block 427.
    - The cost of the Coyote compared to comparable HP push rod crate engines is similar.
    - The Coyote is easy to drive and very responsive above 3,500 revs. This makes everyday normal driving very easy.
    - The Coyote will run on 87 octane at any elevation and any temperature without a hesitation. And continue to perform. No need to be on the look out for the 94 octane Chevron pumps.
    - At idle, the engine is quiet. If you want loud aggressive sounding idle you can tune it in with the 427 tune. Not for me personally.
    - Fuel economy is good if your right foot allows.
    - 2 year warranty.
    - If you have some problems, it's the same engine in the Mustang GT. Go to any Ford dealership for help or parts.
    Last edited by Dave Howard; 05-20-2017 at 01:13 PM.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bking View Post
    If you are trying to get Coyote buy in from the CEO on pay back, keep the first post and throw away all the others.
    lol!
    James

    FFR33 #997 (Gen1 chassis, Gen2 body), license plate DRIVE IT says it all! build thread
    My build: 350SBC, TKO600, hardtop, no fenders/hood, 32 grill, 3 link, sway bars, 355/30r19
    Previous cars: GTD40, Cobra, tubeframe 55 Chevy, 66 Nova, 56 F100

  13. #12
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    That guy seems to like to exaggerate just a bit. Both numbers don't make sense. If he has said 20 and 10, that I can believe.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

  14. #13
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDubU View Post
    That guy seems to like to exaggerate just a bit. Both numbers don't make sense. If he has said 20 and 10, that I can believe.
    I can't believe this:

    I have 15 miles on the car. I put it 5 gallons in the tank, the gauge went up to almost 3/8 or so. That's within reason. I drove it about 6 miles (go-kart and with body on) and the gauge slowly ended up near empty. Not within reason. I added about 3 more gallons or so, gauge went to about a 1/4. Reasonable. Drove it another 8 or 9 miles, and gauge was touching empty. Not reasonable. That's 8 gallons in 15 miles, or an unbelievable <2 mpg.

    During the tank assembly and electrical testing, I ran the float up and down and the gauge followed it perfectly, so at this point I am not suspecting an indication problem. I haven't seen any puddles or leaks, so for now, that is not suspected. It does seem to run rich, at least at cold start up, due to the gasoline aroma. Even if it is running rich (Holly 750 that the engine builder set up) a 10% or 20% decrease in gas mileage may be reasonable, but not down to 2 mpg.

    Other than that, no idea. I have some investigating to do. Still doing fabrication and assembly, and body coming off and on, and the normal shakeout stuff, so it'll be a while before I get to the gas guzzling problem. But it's now on my "Problems to fix" list.
    Last edited by boat737; 05-20-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    If Brute Force doesn't work, you're not using enough of it.
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    The 430hp LS3 in my '37 Oze always gets 20 mpg or better in city driving, for the last 3600 miles. I expect mid 20's or better driving 70-80 mph on the highway. I've got 3.55 gears with .7 overdrive and tall 30.5 inch rear tires. If I don't get that good, then I'll blame poor aerodynamics.

    My 455hp LT1 Corvette is rated 28 mpg on the highway and usually gets 20 in city driving, despite being rated at 16. I did a 200 mile trip to Black Hawk last year, taking winding mountain roads to get there and highways on the return leg and got 26 mpg. That's about the same as you'd get in my wife's Escape with it's 2.0L 237hp turbo engine.

  16. #15
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    347 with a Holley 650 double pumper backed up by a T5Z transmission and 3.27 rear gears. I get around 18 mpg on the highway, which is about the only time I use 5th gear. Around town and country roads I get in the area of 14 - 15 mpg.
    Later,
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    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  17. #16
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumball View Post
    347 with a Holley 650 double pumper backed up by a T5Z transmission and 3.27 rear gears. I get around 18 mpg on the highway, which is about the only time I use 5th gear. Around town and country roads I get in the area of 14 - 15 mpg.
    Exactly what I experienced with #7750 with a carb'd 347 and the same gearing.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  18. #17
    Senior Member Lowrod's Avatar
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    Currently building my second Roadster, I never could calculate the gas mileage on my first build!

    Way too much fun!

    Good Fourm Thread!

  19. #18
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    My stack injected 347 (500+hp) has so far been getting between 12 & 15 cruising around country roads. No highway driving yet. 2000 miles. But, stopping for gas is one of the highlights of driving the car! Always lots of looking and questions.

    Bob

  20. #19
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    Just puttering, I would expect you'll be getting in the 20's for your hwy mpg driving reasonably, not trying to coast for every mpg. Although our cars are quite light, the aero co-efficient of drag is quite poor.

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    Thanks for the replys, when he said that i knew a typical motor should be better than 4, i have several v8's, one v10 (in a truck unfortunately) it made me question how much better could the coyote be than the others?

    My daily comuter (I commute up to 140 miles round trip) costs me $100 average per day in fuel, so running my roadster to decompress on the weekend will feel like driving a Prius for gas mileage.

  22. #21
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Maybe 4 mpg with a 427, if your driving in first gear, and there is long stop lights every 2 blocks..lol
    FFR6803RD, MK 3.1, 302 EFI, fr/rr disc brakes, WC-T5, c/w Hurst Competition Plus shifter, 3 link rear, Koni adjustable coil over shocks, dual roll bars, BBK 4-4 headers, 3.55 rear gears, BBK rear lower control arms c/w poly bushings. Ivy Green Metallic Arrived-02/08, On road 09/2010

  23. #22
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
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    My 2013 Coyote with mild tune gets in the low-to-mid 20's, spirited driving, leisurely drives through the mountains and in town.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  24. #23
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Just for comparison sake, my wife's '67 Camaro with a 396 gets around 6 - 8 mpg with the way she drives.... sheesh!
    Later,
    Chris

    "There are no more monsters to fear, and so, we have to build our own."
    Mk3.1 #7074

  25. #24
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    Newer engines are definitely more efficient. My 2015 Z06 with 650 HP gets 18.8 mpg avg in town, 23.6 mpg on the highway at 75-80 mph. My 67 GTO with a 400 ci engine and approximately 410 HP gets between 11 and 13 mpg in town IF I drive easy, 9 mpg with a spirited right foot. Fuel injection and miracle electronics vs old school Holley carb and distributor.

    Who buys or drives a Cobra with fuel economy in mind anyway ?

  26. #25
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just puttering View Post
    My daily comuter (I commute up to 140 miles round trip) costs me $100 average per day in fuel...
    Huh? What the heck are you paying for fuel? Surely that isn't what you meant to type.

    Not that it matters but I've checked mine (EFI Windsor, Trick Flow heads, intake & cam, etc); 70-75 MPH interstate cruise=~22MPG, running around town and backroads=~15MPG, track days=~5MPG.

    Jeff

  27. #26
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    Yes it is! Its a diesel commercial truck with a 70 gallon tank, and it ends up if i dont get fuel every day by the end of day two the fuel light is on and Im on fumes. It really sucks being stuck on the road waiting for fuel (happened once, about 100 yards from the pump. That sucked!)

  28. #27
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    My KC 408w (530 hp,535tk) gets 15-17 mpg city , 20-21 highway....just about what my 2013 F-150 gets. If I was to build again I would go coyote...my 2 cents.
    Charles

  29. #28

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles roybal View Post
    My KC 408w (530 hp,535tk) gets 15-17 mpg city , 20-21 highway....just about what my 2013 F-150 gets. If I was to build again I would go coyote...my 2 cents.
    Charles
    But it wouldn't sound nearly as good, so that's the 2 cents from the Dark Side!

  30. #29
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    I coasted into a gas station one time with my '67 Firebird engine silent, out of gas. Guy at the next pump looked me over and said: "Cutting it close, are we?" I just laughed.

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    But it wouldn't sound nearly as good, so that's the 2 cents from the Dark Side!
    Just get a " ghost cam tune "...my3 cents.
    Charles

  32. #31
    Senior Member DavidW's Avatar
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    I just checked my gas mileage for fun, its 7.3 miles per gallon. I just reached about 900 miles running a carbed 408w with 500 HP and 529 TQ, running 3.55 rear. I do like to feel the power so my foot can be heavy at times.

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    I’ve got a carbed 302 with 3.73 rear end.
    The two longer drives of done with lots of Hwy, but still some full throttle and fun driving have been 12 and 13L/100km which works out to 19.5 and 18 MPG (US gallon). Don’t think I calculated the more local tanks but would be less. I thought it would be way worse.

  34. #33
    #9160 BB767's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boat737 View Post
    I can't believe this:

    I have 15 miles on the car. I put it 5 gallons in the tank, the gauge went up to almost 3/8 or so. That's within reason. I drove it about 6 miles (go-kart and with body on) and the gauge slowly ended up near empty. Not within reason. I added about 3 more gallons or so, gauge went to about a 1/4. Reasonable. Drove it another 8 or 9 miles, and gauge was touching empty. Not reasonable. That's 8 gallons in 15 miles, or an unbelievable <2 mpg.

    During the tank assembly and electrical testing, I ran the float up and down and the gauge followed it perfectly, so at this point I am not suspecting an indication problem. I haven't seen any puddles or leaks, so for now, that is not suspected. It does seem to run rich, at least at cold start up, due to the gasoline aroma. Even if it is running rich (Holly 750 that the engine builder set up) a 10% or 20% decrease in gas mileage may be reasonable, but not down to 2 mpg.

    Other than that, no idea. I have some investigating to do. Still doing fabrication and assembly, and body coming off and on, and the normal shakeout stuff, so it'll be a while before I get to the gas guzzling problem. But it's now on my "Problems to fix" list.
    Funny, mine is very similar, did the same thing and had me quite worried. Please let me know what you find if anything.

    I only have 3 full tanks through the car now but the upper half of the gauge seems to move at a normal rate and is pretty acurate, and when I ran it very close to E it took almost 14 gallons so it is close, but from about 1/3 to the “E” I can almost see the guage moving.

    I got 10 mpg on the first fill up, 11 on the second, and 13.5 on the last one. I just watch the mileage and plan on refueling by 150 miles.
    MK4 - complete kit - Blueprint 427W - Holly Sniper EFI - TKO 600 .64 - 3.55 3 link - 17" Halibrands

  35. #34
    Senior Member Itchief's Avatar
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    I get about 14 with a.68 fifth gear and a 3.55

    Someday I am going to install Willwood’s on the rear and while I have the axles apart I am going to swap out the 3.55 for a 3.08 so that I can do 70 mph at 1900 rpm instead of 2200 rpm

    Rick
    Last edited by Itchief; 08-18-2018 at 06:14 PM.
    #8475 Complete Kit Delivered Nov 2014, started Nov 2015, Street Legal Apr 2016, Paint and Interior Completed Aug 2017, 390 BBF, March accessory kit, MSD Atomic EFI and Ready to run, TKO 500 with MidShift kit, hooker headers, 3 link, track lock with 3.55, sway bars, power steering, wipers, heater

  36. #35
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles roybal View Post
    Just get a " ghost cam tune "...my3 cents.
    Charles
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fJysY168Zk
    Kevin
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    I love the smell of 100 octane in the morning.
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  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itchief View Post
    I get about 14 with a.68 fifth gear and a 3.55

    Someday I am going to install Willwood’s on the rear and while I have the axles apart I am going to swap out the 3.55 for a 3.08 so that I can do 70 mph at 1900 rpm instead of 2200 rpm

    Rick
    Don't do it. I changed mine from 3.55 to 3.27, and I really noticed the change in acceleration. I - personally - would be very unhappy with a 3.08. I planned to change from the 3.27 to a 3.73 to get the acceleration back.
    .boB "Iron Man"
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    BDR 1642: Coyote, 6 Speed Auto, Edelbrock Supercharger
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