Factory Five as turnkey builder!?

[MisterAdam]

Kinda disappointed Saturday to hear Dave Smith himself say that he was looking at land next door for vehicle assembly....as a separate company. What happened to "built not bought"? not to go on a rant here but i think it would be a dis-service to his current customer base. The awe and astonishment i receive when people find out that these are built by us is amazing. To be able to just write a check and drive one on these off the lot takes a lot from that.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Built not bought is cool and all that but not everyone has the room/skills/time to build their own car or house. I have no problem with doing both for customers so that they can realize their dream I freely confess that I can't configure my own computer, prepare my own taxes and any number of other mundane things and find no shame in handing those tasks off to someone who can (plus it leaves me more time to play with cars and houses...WIN-WIN!).

Jeff

[Jdav]

There are already many options to buy not build - wether it be a different brand of replica, a used one or the turnkey options many vendors offer. That FFR would offer turn keys should not in any way diminish the pride you feel if you do build one yourself.

Plus, as I understand the new law allowing them to do this, it would be limited to a certain number per year. My only hope is that it doesnt take business away from vendors who have supported this industry to date.

[wareaglescott]

I think the potential is there over time to benefit all factory five owners when they start producing cars.
Look at it this way. They are gonna charge quite a premium for a turn key car. The question I most frequently receive is how much do I have in it. If a published number is available as to what these cost from the factory I can only think it will help every other owners perceived value.

[MisterAdam]

it will not diminish any of the enjoyment these give. I just thought it was ironic that they updated their brochures and website and added "built not bought" right under their name. my 2 cents.

[GoDadGo]

If one ever gets a chance to look at what Superformance & Backdraft offer, I mean really look hard at those cars it becomes self evident that their underpinnings, specifically their frames, are far from being period correct. Folks buy those cars because they can't build them themselves and that is fine if you want a foreign car, made with foreign labor, that will be hard to find parts for down the road.

Now fast forward to the possibility of Factory Five Racing building a limited number allowed under the new law and only great things will happen. People will get hired, existing staff members at Factory Five will likely get promoted and get raises plus the parent company can expand.

I Say More Power To Dave Smith & His Team For They Will Build Only Truly Superior Products.

The good news for this home builder is that I'm pretty sure that they won't be offering any 383 SBC Chevy option that is backed by a ZF/6-Speed so my chariot should remain somewhat unique.

Steve

[KDubU]

I say more power to him. There is nothing wrong with buying or building, it's based on skillset, time and room often. There are customers for fully built custom cars so why not grab a piece of the pie?

[ben1272]

It is great news. We are all witnessing the birth of a great American car company. I dont mean the already great kitcar company that Factory Five is, I mean the great car company (like Porsche, Ferrari, etc). I have always believed that they would take their place with these and other great marques and I am excited to see this next step.

[R Thomas]

I wasn't there for the announcement but sounds like a solid business plan to me. I can clearly see why it need be a separate business. I'm sure there are many that have no desire to build their own and Dave has a great group of contacts around him to put together a turnkey program. Sounds like there have been enough interest in turnkey for FFR to give it a serious look.

[UnhipPopano]

I think that it is a good thing for the builders. If F5, or a subsidiary company, starts to build them and they run into missing parts and needing to rework things, they will see the economic advantage of fixing the problems quickly.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I'm pretty sure that they won't be offering any 383 SBC Chevy option that is backed by a ZF/6-Speed so my chariot should remain somewhat unique.

There's a reason for that!

Steve my Brother, you know where I stand on your Chevycobra but you just can't leave me an easy opening like that and expect me not to take it

Jeff

[ursa5000]

As we well know, there are plenty of known issues, some minor and some more time consuming, with the kits, When Dave Smith sees that these existing issues are going to cost additional time in QC'ing the assembled vehicles, those issues will be resolved on an expitited basis.

The assembled kits will force a much higher level of quality control on the entire in-house production process .

[GoDadGo]

There's a reason for that!

Steve my Brother, you know where I stand on your Chevycobra but you just can't leave me an easy opening like that and expect me not to take it

Jeff

When you see it in person, you'll change your mind!
Also, we had a rain delay on the 1st start.

[Derald Rice]

it will not diminish any of the enjoyment these give. I just thought it was ironic that they updated their brochures and website and added "built not bought" right under their name. my 2 cents.

Wont be any different that this statement on their website:

Welcome to Factory Five Racing!
Factory Five Racing was founded in 1995. Over the years we have grown from a start-up business in a small garage to become the world’s largest manufacturer of component car kits. We employ a full-time crew of about 40 people, and are located in Wareham, Massachusetts (about an hour south of Boston). We make our products right here in the USA, in the heart of New England where American manufacturing was born.


We all know that all of their products are NOT made in the USA, but they still have the claim on their website.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Expect its going to be really good for future builders. To make a economical product they will have to file down some of the rough edges current builders have to deal with. Improved parts for a production car will find their way into the kits.

[MisterAdam]

WOW!! Did i just get chewed a new a-hole. Meant no offense to factory five or dave.....i am proud to own one. Gotta love this forum!

[David Hodgkins]

Wont be any different that this statement on their website:

Welcome to Factory Five Racing!
Factory Five Racing was founded in 1995. Over the years we have grown from a start-up business in a small garage to become the world’s largest manufacturer of component car kits. We employ a full-time crew of about 40 people, and are located in Wareham, Massachusetts (about an hour south of Boston). We make our products right here in the USA, in the heart of New England where American manufacturing was born.


We all know that all of their products are NOT made in the USA, but they still have the claim on their website.

They make their products - kit cars - in the USA. That is a true statement. If you are jumping in them for not using all US-based suppliers then be I think that is unrealistic and not what the site is conveying.

Assuming it's on their NEW site...

[Derald Rice]

They make their products - kit cars - in the USA. That is a true statement. If you are jumping in them for not using all US-based suppliers then be I think that is unrealistic and not what the site is conveying.

Assuming it's on their NEW site...

It is on their new site. I am not holding them to the source of parts they buy from vendors. I am only referrring to parts that are branded FFR.

And FFR wheels are made where ? The steel FFR 33 body is made where ??

[erlihemi]

I think it's a positive progression for all of us. Maybe we'll even see models with electric drive to keep carbon offsets fair!
If they have to build their own, quality and ease of build should both improve.

[myjones]

I assume the separate assembly company is a liability thing since it would change the nature of all the disclaimers in the build manual.

I agree with several of the posters above that once they start building their kits in quantity some of the rough edges people have
been complaining about are more likely to be resolved, that's a win win IMO.
DB

[mburger]

I love the Cobra. Always wanted one. I had the room and tools when I lived in NY. I moved to Florida and no longer have the room, the time or tools to build my own FF car. So, I chose to buy a pre-built FF Cobra. I wanted a FF car. If I had the option, I would have bought a FF built car over an ad on eBay or a local dealer. I think this is a good business decision for people like me that want a FF car, but don't have the time, space or tools to do it. Dave is offering folks like me an opportunity to own a FF built car. I searched my area for builders to see if there was someone that could build it for me. I gave up and purchased from a local dealer. It's a mistake for Factory Five to limit their customer base to ONLY those that can build their own car so I like that they are looking to offer an option to us folks who can't build our own. Just my opinion.

[mcwho]

I agree with others who are in favor if the FF built Idea. It likely wouldn't probably own one if the sticker was $65,000 or so, but I am sure that FFR will offer levels of completion, in the product cars.

ANd

I will Bet money that they would fix some issues that we all as builders have had to deal with like the Rear License plate fitting and the parking brake cables not working without counter sigking some button head bolts.

That what makes it fun to build these, handling issues and moving oon to the next issue.

[GoDadGo]

I will Bet money that they would fix some issues that we all as builders have had to deal with like.......

And The Driver's Door Would Be Nice If Addressed Too!

[lahrs37]

Also, for what it's worth he didn't say that this was a done deal. They are still deciding between building completed cars or using the space to do some more of the things in-house that they are currently farming out to vendors. It sounds like a hard decision and I am glad I don't have to make it. I fully support whatever keeps them in business and strong for years to come.

[slpro1207]

I am sure that most of us that are driving or building a FFR roadster had the option of buying a used or built cobra replica, but chose to build one. I say most but not all. We are cobra lovers that wanted a challenge. I'm sure the quality will improve and I really don't see a down side for FFR. If there is any impact at all to kit sales I think sales will increase due to additional advertising and product recognition. Win Win for everyone.

[edwardb]

I was at the Open House but didn't attend the plant tour so didn't hear Dave's comments first hand. But did hear about them second hand. Building turnkey cars doesn't sound like a done deal, but seems pretty likely. I'll be interested to see how they finish and option them out, and where they are priced. I can't help but think it will help the value of our own hand built cars. I'm a little surprised that some in this thread think this will cause them to look at "quality issues." Maybe I guess. But Dave said they can build a Roadster in three days now. Pretty sure they have this figured out and move quickly past some of the issues we home builders like to obsess about. I remember when all the debate was going on about the clutch pedal/frame interference (now fixed I guess) the response from FF was to hit it with a big hammer. Not something most of us wanted to do but would sure keep the build moving. To date I haven't seen any of their in-house builds that had some of the touches we all seem to add, like finishing aluminum panels, adding heat/sound insulation, detailing out the interior, etc. This is an area they'll need to improve on IMO. No matter what we think about the frames or whatever of some of the factory builds (Superformance, etc.) the finish details are pretty refined and they look nice.

As mentioned, Dave apparently also said they are looking at the additional space to bring in-house some operations that are currently outsourced. Powder coating frames, suspension parts, etc. was one thing he specifically mentioned.

[FFR3296]

I'm on the fence on this topic. FFR is a chartered corporation. Corporations by their nature have to grow to be successful. They have to maintain a staff of qualified team player employees with some type of benefits, health, retirement plans, paid vacations and to be ready when a valued employee has issues and be ready to help. It is a fine line of a family business and a corporation. The other heavy costs of a corporation are overhead to running a factory, taxes that never go down. FFR must always be on the line to recognize their buying customers needs. And stay ahead of the competition. I started looking into building a Cobra Roadster in 1999. I sent away to at least 5 companies that made Roadsters, ordered a VCR about Cobras, and a magazine about all makers of Roadsters. I narrowed it down to 3, Superfomance, Unique and FFR. The first was a matter of what color they offered, Unique was about the same with no creativity but you could build their version their way. In fall of 2001 I ordered from FFR and picked up my MK1/MK2 in Feb of 2002. Roadster was finished just in time for 2003 Open House and won Best Paint. I have been to every Open House since 2001 but 3 due graduations and rain. The main reason I go is three fold, love the hot dogs, a blast to rip to Wareham from NY. And the most is because I love to look at everyones build. There are no 2 cars the same all are different in someway. When building my roadster it was very frustrating for a first time builder and needed forum help often. I always thought I had a Love/Hate relation with FFR. And to continue that relation I ordered a Gen 2 Coupe in 2013[still frustrating]. Sorry to rattle I'm a long term fan of FFR. I hope the community of creative builders will survive the Next Gen of turn key buyers. I heard somewhere in the past "respect is gained by what you build". Regards FFR 3296.

[mcwho]

GoDadGo,
Whats wrong with your drivers door ?

[GoDadGo]

GoDadGo,
Whats wrong with your drivers door ?

If the mold were tweaked a little bit, the inner liner mold only, then less body filler would be required to fix the outer skin.

It is my only complaint about the body of the MK-4.

That's All!

[Raceral]

I am not on the fence on this. Yes F5 can do what ever they like. But, is there anybody in the US that can't find of of the great established builders like Whitbys or Gordon Levy and others. They have really supported F5 since day one almost. Not to mention helped F5 machine and buld parts and helped them with research and development.
Just an opinion.

[HCP 65 COUPE]

I really think that FFR building turn keys is a good thing for this crazy hobby. It will slowly force FFR to improve quality over time seeing the labor to build a turn key will be expensive, and we all know time is money, small fit issues that cost a lot of time on our end will slowly go away and save labor on there end. Plus we should see an increase in overall development to the chassis and parts used on them. An increase in revenue stream to FFR just cant be a bad thing, Heck maybe we will see a full imsa gt racing effort out of it, I don't see to many Ferrari 488's flying off the assembly line and they get to run with the low production #s, imagine a type 65 FFR racing at the rolex 24, sebring or Le man's now that's something I think we could all get behind no matter how much of a stretch that may be. Go FFR Go

[Dave Howard]

It'll still be "built not bought" for those who enjoy the build process, and get out your cheque book for those who can't for what ever reason. Not every home built FFR is a work of art and I won't drive a mile in some of the cars mentioned on the forums for safety reasons. But, you can bet if FFR is going to turn out finished cars they will be great. Why would you put out a turd with your name on it?????? I wish Dave and crew all the best in the future endeavour. Too bad FFR isn't a public company. I'd be a shareholder for sure.