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Thread: Factory Five Visit Cemented Coupe Build

  1. #1

    Factory Five Visit Cemented Coupe Build

    Howdy Everyone,
    I have enjoyed reading and day dreaming about a FFR build for years. This father's day weekend, my first as the honoree, I got to visit the factory.
    The roadster was my introduction to FFR. Then the 818 was released and I liked how complete the kit was with a donor and the extensive aftermarket for Subaru's. I finally settled on the type 65 coupe gen 2. After the Gen 3 was revealed that sealed the deal.

    Seeing and sitting in the Gen 3 did not disappoint. The entrance and exit get a little tricky but once you are inside I dare say it is spacious. The goal would be to construct a car as daily driver friendly as possible with power brakes, power steering, and hydraulic clutch. Air conditioning and heat are a strong possibility. Drive train would be a salvaged coyote out of a 2015+ F-150 backed up by a T-56 magnum sending power to a Mustang IRS from a track pack 3.73 Torsen at the rear. If I only ever get to build 1 I might as well shoot for the moon. 15" wheels are also on the menu for the classic look and extra sidewall give.

    Everything is still a day dream but I now have some real memories to draw on.
    Big thanks to Courtnie for the tour and David for setting it up.
    If I did this right below is a pic with my future build partner. Don't be fooled by the hands at 9-3 and eyes on the road. His only interest was eating the steering wheel. No comment on if he was successful.

    -Ben and Derrick

    20170616_093833 cropped.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Good news for sure. W/ a coupe I think heat and AC are almost mandatory.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  3. #3
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Shoot For The Moon & Welcome To The Forum!

    While these cars take a little time to do right, the service that you get from Factory Five Racing and folks on this forum are amazing so you've come to the right place.

    If you have the time & money to do a build, neither will be wasted.

  4. #4
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first personal father's day. I've been looking at the Gen 3 Coupe very closely myself. Have had occasion to see it in person twice now. Couple comments on your rough build plan. Every single feedback I've seen regarding the Coupe is that for regular driving heat and AC is almost mandatory, as CraigS already said. I'm with you on the power steering and hydraulic clutch. You may want to reconsider the power brakes. The Wilwood pedal box is designed to be manual, and with the right disk/caliper/pad setup, manual brakes work very well. I've done two builds with power brakes (vacuum and hydroboost) and now my current build with the big Wilwood setup that's manual. Other than the slightly heavier pedal, I'm very happy with it. Finally, you're going to find some challenges getting 15-inch wheels to work. You'll need to do something custom with the brakes (regular plus e-brake) plus live with the available tires. I understand about the look. But I wouldn't make the decision about the ride/extra sidewall. I've done builds with both 17's and 18's. My newest build with the new IRS and 18's rides very nicely. It's a Roadster, so hardly a daily driver. But everyone who rides in it comments how well it rides. The new IRS is great. The ride is tight, but it's compliant and not harsh at all. I wouldn't rule out the bigger tires for this reason. Good luck whatever you decide.
    Last edited by edwardb; 07-02-2017 at 08:43 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. Red/white club for the third time. #8674 Build Thread

  5. #5
    Ben and Derrick,

    Good choice, keep us posted on when you are going to place the order. In the meantime learn from the talented guys here.

    John
    Making progress on the "My Coupe, my way" project.

    http://s956.photobucket.com/albums/ae46/jdcoupe1969/
    Coupe #386,17" Team III 245 FR 315 RR, 3-link, T5, 4 wheel disk, power brakes/steering. Fast EZ EFI
    First start Sept. 18 2013 First go kart Sept 19 2013

  6. #6
    Thanks for the warm reception and feedback.
    I agree air is pretty much a given being in Houston, Texas. I just haven't seen air in a Gen 3 to figure out the details. The F-150 coyote complicates things further with its different timing cover. The Road Runner kit and Vintage Air Front Runner are very good looking accessory drives but I need to do a little more homework to check compatibility with the F-150 motor. I am leaning towards the 2015+ F-150 motor for the <$3k price tag, 87 octane gas, and low end torque. If finding a solution for the different firing order and accessory drive becomes problematic a crate coyote maybe in order.
    Paul, your insight on the brakes and wheels is a game changer. I have read through your builds multiple times and gained tons of knowledge from them. 18s certainly make life easier and the tire choices are greatly increased. In all honesty, this kit can't ride any worse than my wife's Jeep Wrangler regardless of what setup I choose. I know you had power brakes in the past but I didn't catch that your 20th Anniversary is manual. I will also go the Lizard Skin route and will follow your write up when the time comes. I use the industrial line of products from Lizard Skin at work. The results defy the laws of heat transfer on our equipment.
    See if anyone can shine some light on the brake options. The Mustang IRS uses the factory 13" rotors in the rear but does the complete kit still come with 11" front rotors if you do not opt for the Wilwoods? How would the car perform with Wilwoods up front and Mustang 13" rotors in the rear? Will balance and bias become an issue mixing Wilwood and Mustang rotors?
    I have also been informed that I failed to mention mommy in my first post who booked the trip to Boston and took the "phenomenal" coupe photos. She experienced love at first sight with the GTM...then she sat in it and promptly broke things off. She is 6'1" after all.

    20170616_094353 cropped.jpg

    Anyone care to explain or have a link on how to post photos directly to the thread?

    Ben, Gabby, and Derrick. Henceforth, The Morrows.

  7. #7
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Couple responses -- Pretty sure A/C is still a work in progress with the new Coupe. I've heard that Factory Five is developing something, but don't know any details. Hope they get something figured out. It's a must for mine as well. The compressor isn't so much an issue, at least with a standard Coyote, but the evaporator and heater core are being developed to fit. There are at least a couple front runner options for the standard Coyote that include both power steering and an A/C compressor. Not familiar at all with the F-150 version, other than it's different.

    Regarding the F-150 Coyote. I understand the lower cost part. You mention more torque and 87 octane fuel. Neither of those are an issue with the Mustang Coyote in these builds. The regular Coyote isn't a slouch for torque, plus the car is 1000 lbs or more lighter than a Mustang. Ford uses higher octane for their HP and torque ratings (not unsual...) but I think the actual loss is quite low and the engine runs just fine on 87 octane. IMO neither of those are really reasons to steer toward the F-150 Coyote. But cost is still what it is, so that could easily be the determining factor.

    Can't help with the brake question. Technically mixed brakes would function. Hydraulic pressure doesn't know caliper/rotor brands. And the Wilwood footbox balance bar setup would allow front to back bias adjustment as needed. But whether it's a good idea or not I can't say. Would be a good question for Factory Five in addition to feedback on the forum.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. Red/white club for the third time. #8674 Build Thread

  8. #8
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    I am in an old roadster but can comment on brakes since I did a 2015 IRS retrofit last winter. I have a CNC dual MC setup which gives similar performance to the Wilwood dual MC. I had old Fox body front brakes and went w/ the brakes that came w/ my IRS salvage rear suspension. I was surprised how well they worked. A few months later I upgraded the rears to Hawk HPS pads which made a small improvement. Another nice advantage is that the park brake works quite well. RE;wheels. 17x10.5 Bullits will just barely clear the Ford IRS calipers. You need to be careful where they place the stick-on weights. But w/ the size of the coupe fenders that can easily be solved w/ a 1/2 in to 3/4 in wheel spacer. 17-18 in wheels will be the easiest and least expensive setup for you. American Muscle has quite a few styles and they are cheap as the sell skillions to the Mustang guys.
    http://www.americanmuscle.com/dedibuwh.html
    http://www.americanmuscle.com/buwh1-9404.html
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  9. #9
    If you do the 2015+ F150 engine, you can replace the cams only and live with a slightly lower compression ratio, or someone here mentioned that there is at least one tuner that can adjust the firing order on the Coyote PCM. Doing the software change and a tune will certainly be the lowest cost option. Alternatively, I have all the cam part numbers listed in my build thread.

    With the Gen 3 coupe, you may be able to survive with the F150 timing cover since there's extra room in the engine bay. I'm not sure how quickly I'll get the engine in my coupe since delivery won't be until late September, but I'm sure I'll post about it when it happens.

    Good luck with everything!
    Future Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  10. #10
    Howdy again guys,

    What knowledge I have on the F150 firing order is from a thread you commented on q4. I will have to keep an eye on your build since you will certainly get there years before I do. The cam swap for <$300 seems like the most direct route. You can still first start and go cart before getting into the ECU tuning.

    I hate to admit that 18s all around and Wilwoods up front are looking like the smartest option. 15s cause a lot of trouble with the IRS and tire selection.

    I see everyone using the GPS speedo gauge kit but all the Tremecs come with mechanical and electronic speedo pickups. Is this an aesthetic choice or does the speedo connection become an issue with the other gauge kits? Does the base gauge kit use mechanical or electronic connection? I like the vintage look and black face of the GPS gauges but not a must have.

    After sitting in a roadster with the low back vinyl roadster seats and the vintage competition low back seats the competition seat feels like a completely different car with all the extra room. I could see building the coupe with low back competition seats and swapping in some high backs later but can you find a better option than the Kirkeys in the $650 range? Has anyone found aftermarket or donor seats that can compare in the $650 dollar range? I really wouldn't feel safe and secure in the car without a head rest.

    Anyone opinions and comments are welcome. Just spit balling ideas and day dreaming.

    -Ben

  11. #11
    As you'll quickly find out, I like to shoot myself in the foot with doing unique things everyone tells me I can't do
    On the bright side, that means I can make other people's lives easier with their builds and give more options. Apparently my ideas are even memorable enough that when I last called MMR about some upgraded parts, they knew exactly who I was because of my build haha

    The GPS gauges effectively remove the final drive ratio and tire circumferences from the transmission to speed conversion equation. Going from 3.55 to 3.73 rear gears would require a different mechanical speed gear or an adjustment with the gauge. GPS doesn't require any of that. It's one of the reasons I chose them for my build. In addition, I've read the Factory Five GPS gauges have 0-60 timers and things built in while the others may or may not (I haven't checked).

    I ordered the Kirkeys to start with. Long term I expect to change them out, but time will tell. If I get to that point, I'm sure I'll list them. A Gen 3 should open up the seat options by a fair amount compared to the Gen 2 coupe.
    Future Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  12. #12
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by q4stix View Post
    The GPS gauges effectively remove the final drive ratio and tire circumferences from the transmission to speed conversion equation. Going from 3.55 to 3.73 rear gears would require a different mechanical speed gear or an adjustment with the gauge. GPS doesn't require any of that. It's one of the reasons I chose them for my build. In addition, I've read the Factory Five GPS gauges have 0-60 timers and things built in while the others may or may not (I haven't checked).
    Actually the non-GPS Speedhut gauges don't require you do anything with drive ratio, tires, etc. either. The speedo has a calibration process so that it indicates the right speed using whatever signal is coming from the transmission speed sensor. It's a relatively easy step, but using the GPS speedo eliminates that plus having to mess with the sensor wires in the harness. If you do go that path, use the internal sensor in the TKO and plug the external speed sensor location. The non-GPS Speedhut speedo only has a trip odometer. That's it. The GPS version also has a trip odometer and typical GPS data -- time, direction, speed, altitude. Plus peak speed, 0-60 timer, and quarter mile timer.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. Deliv: 08/05/2015. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. Red/white club for the third time. #8674 Build Thread

  13. #13
    Even better than I thought. My experience is with early mechanical gauges and with a few cars that had to have 'speed healers' or reprogrammed ECUs.
    Thanks for the correction and new info!
    Future Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

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