New guy with some question.

[CptRanger]

Hey everyone and thanks in advance.

I have began my research for a 33 build (project for me and my two sons.) I plan on ordering my kit next spring, so I am trying to get everything in order.

I know nothing about ford engines, having done all of my tinkering and building using old Gen 1 csb's, so I know nothing of the new LS tech either. My sons have out voted me (well I like the idea too so I did not veto the vote , and we will have an open engine bay on our 33. So my immediate thought was Blower! With the hood being open, I want the engine to look like it might be from an older hot rod. So my question is should I look at buying a new ls3-ls7 crate with carburation, I know that the 500hp is easily attainable with these, but I also know that you must tune an ECM and god knows what else to make them work. Most of these range around 10K being all dressed up. Or I was thinking about getting a gen 1 350 which can be had fully built for under 2k and putting a roots blower on top. This combination can easily make 400hp and go up from there with new cam and heads. But this could be done for under 6k. Sorry about my rambling, but my wife actually agreed to this idea and I am super stoked!

Thanks
Cpt

[RoadRacer]

Welcome! Not sure what the question is though..

I'm using a stroked 350 -> 383 SBC, as many do in the 33, but I'm sure the vast majority are still Ford! Not many blowers in these light cars. I see lots of coyotes discussed and some LSx.. just remember you probably won't need 500+ hp

[CptRanger]

Now that I reread it, it's kind of confusing. Question is what are the pros and cons of using a modern ls crate motor over an older blown gen 1 that would overcome the 4-5k price difference?

Thanks
Cpt

[RoadRacer]

Reliability, fuel economy and altitude tolerance - you in Colorado or similar?

But I'm biased old school with my carb'd SBC. I'm rebelling against all these computers!

[TDSapp]

Reliability, fuel economy and altitude tolerance - you in Colorado or similar?

But I'm biased old school with my carb'd SBC. I'm rebelling against all these computers!

Bingo... It just depends on what you are looking for. For me, it's not about the fuel economy and altitude, it's all about the look and the feel. I am old school like RoadRacer and I am going with a SBC and really considering the 6-71 blower with two carburetors on top of it. Big fat tires on back and smaller ones up front. But for some of the road course racers they want the big wide tires all around.

Here is my thought on it. You don't buy a 33 Hot Rod kit car because you want the fuel economy. Your not really building a daily driver, but could you drive it daily... sure.

When you think, or dream, or look at pictures of the hot rod what do you keep going back to? Is it the old school look with the big motor and the blower out of the hood, or is it the hot rod with the LS3 rumbling in the background with a smooth idol?

I was going to ask if you wanted a sleeper but that is a moot point with this car. It screams "Don't Mess with me but look at me right now!"



Tim

[BluePrintEngines]

One thing is for certain, its less expensive to finance a GM build than a Ford. I'm sure there will always be exceptions; but the GM based engines have so many more options for aftermarket parts.

Make sure you buy (or have built) a longblock designed for boost. You can't get away with going cheap on the longblock and spend all of your money on the blower...sure it'll work (for a couple of miles anyway)
:
This is just an example; but it is a purpose built longblock..specifically for Power Adders: http://blueprintengines.com/index.ph...ase-bp38316ct1

If you're only after 400HP, you can do that all-day with naturally aspirated 383s

[DaveS53]

Good advice from blueprint - don't put a blower on a long block that's not made for it.

Having installed a GM LS3 "connect and cruise package" in my hot rod and read extensively about FFR '33 builds with LS motors, I can provide some warnings about potential problems. One is the air intake snorkel. I've seen a number of different versions, but have no clue how well each one works. There is not enough vertical room to route a 4" tube from the throttle body with a 180 degree bend, 6 inches of straight pipe and a decent sized air filter. GM insists that the MAF sensor be placed in the middle of a minimum 6" length of straight 4" tube. If you do that, there is absolutely no tuning required. The engine will start up, run great and get 20 mpg in city driving, with the 430 hp version. Highway drives will produce around 23 mpg. If you buy a 480 or 525 hp engine, you will suffer some loss of driveability and fuel mileage.

I have posted info on inexpensive GM parts that will work for the LS accessory drive.

I believe that the latest GM crate LS motors use a Camaro oil pan rather than the Corvette pan that my 2013 model came with. That can cause a clearance issue with an electric power steering unit. Hopefully, they are still using the Corvette water pump and balancer that locates the accessories 3/4 inch closer to the engine. If not, then some other issues may come up. The folks at Pace Performance can provide all the info you need - they specialize in crate engines and engine/trans packages.

If you're mainly looking for old-school looks, you could put a small Weiand supercharger on a SBC. I'd still use one of those EFI carburetor substitutes rather than a carburetor.

https://www.holley.com/products/supe.../supercharger/

The air intake on my car could be lowered, if it was rotated toward the driver's side, but my radiator fittings and power steering pump would not allow it. There's a lot more length available in the FFR '33 engine compartment, due to the engine setback.

[NAZ]

Pick an engine that does what you want at a cost you can afford. If you're not familiar with the new LS engines but are with the small block Chevy that may be enough to sway your decision. If you're from the Ford tribe and believe only a Ford should be put into a 33 Ford then there are plenty of options to choose from. Of course, these are as much a Ford as a NASCAR Cup Series car with simulated Ford sheet metal. Whatever floats your boat.

When I was a kid in the 50's these hot rods were more common than today and the SBC was the power plant most people used in them. You just can't beat the SBC for the old skool looks and the $$ per horsepower. So even though I grew up bleeding Ford blue and made my living as a factory trained Ford Tech I went with the SBC for my FFR 33HR build. Mine is more race car than street car and the 385 CI naturally aspirated small block in mine puts out 540 HP at sea level -- all engine. Yes it has a rough lumpy idle and won't stay lit under 900 RPM but then I'm not building a daily driver. The short block was built to accommodate 700 HP and when drag raced it will see enough nitrous to put out that much which should get me into the nines.

If you're going to use power adders you should order your crate engine to accommodate what you plan to use. You'll want a forged rotating assembly and if boosted you'll want boost friendly compression, pistons, and have the rings gapped appropriately. My engine was built to run nitrous. If I put a blower (or turbo) on my high compression engine I'd have to run alcohol to keep from destroying it.

Have fun and build it your way. Just be cognizant of what modifications are needed to accommodate your build plans.

[GoDadGo]

Pick an engine that does what you want at a cost you can afford.

If you're not familiar with the new LS engines but are with the small block Chevy that may be enough to sway your decision.

Just be cognizant of what modifications are needed to accommodate your build plans.

NAZ Makes A Great Points Regarding Go With What You Know & What You Can Afford!

It has been driving my entire build.

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs

Good Luck & Have A Great Build!

[Mick Scarborough]

The LSx is a reliable and powerful engine that delivers great horsepower while getting good gas mileage. The drawback is that it relies heavily on computers and will never have the old school sound. If you dont care about fuel economy and love old school sound and looks, go with the SBC and toss a roots blower on it. Personally I would still put FI on it instead of a carb and many self contained FI units look like carbs but perform so much better.

[first time builder]

I'm old school Small Block with forged internals and 6-71 Dual Carbs (Quick fuel) Open engine bay !!!! LS power is great but expensive and never get the old school look. I have worked with LS SBC BBC Fords and Chrysler. Cost per HP SBC way to go. What Daves 53 said Must run
MAF where GM says if you want the performance and quality of run. A lot of guys I see at car shows have the MAF right in front of the Throttle body and wonder why the car doesnt run good. You have to remember a blower is big $$ by itself. Consider and old school Polished Tunnel ram with dual quads. Still has the wow factor for about 1/4 the cost.
Kenny

[first time builder]

100_0324.JPG

[RoadRacer]

100_0324.JPG

Beautiful deuce coupe

[first time builder]

Actually its part 32 and part 33 Fibreglass body. I don't own it I just maintain it for the owner.
Kenny

[RoadRacer]

Actually its part 32 and part 33 Fibreglass body. I don't own it I just maintain it for the owner.
Kenny

That's funny you say that, because I actually googled some images before replying because something seemed odd. I wondered if it was 33/34 with 32 front, but couldn't tell from my search. I've tried to work this out before without success.

[first time builder]

Good job it is a 33 Body with a 32 grille/rad shell. Registered as a 33. Its got a 383 Stroker TH350 trans a 9 " and 15 inch wide rear Mickey
Thompsons that break loose at will. We didn't build it he bought it mostly the way it is just doing some upgrades and correcting some minor problems. Didn't post to hack thread just to show what a SBC with Tunnel ram can look like in an open engine bay.
Kenny

[NAZ]

Nothing has an old skool WOW factor like a roots blower but a tunnel ram with two carbs comes close and for a fraction of the cost. As a plus, there is nothing special you need to do to the engine internals just to run a tunnel ram for the looks of it.

[DaveS53]

If you really want the old school look, you'd also run larger diameter rear tires with a narrower rear end to get some decent dish on the rear wheels. Unfortunately, that requires changes to the rear coil-over and the 4-bar mounting locations, if you want the suspension to work correctly. 26-27" diameter tires don't cut it, IMO. I use 30.5" on my car, but they still aren't old school, because that requires 15" wheels and I use 20" wheels on the rear. 15's greatly restrict your choice of brakes - there's not enough room for a decent sized rotor.

[CptRanger]

Thanks for all the tips guys. After doing some more research and taking into account what you guys are saying, I think I know what we are going to do.
I asked myself the questions posed here and this is what I am wanting. Fuel Economy NOPE!-Altitude NOPE (DFW, Tx here)-Attitude YEP

We will go with a good short block gen 1 with all forged internals, I have a pair of Brodix Ik 200's with the 70 cc chambers, a weiand 6-71 with a pair of holley 4150 750's on it. So now I just need to find a good cam setup, and maybe sacrifice the set or Harland sharpe 1.6's I have laying around.

If anyone has a good short block recommendation, or even a long block would be very welcome. Anyone used the ik200's? I bought them a couple years ago, but never installed them, but they seem good and are comparable to afr heads. Also, anyone used this kind of setup before? how much cam do I want in this thing since the car only weighs 2250?

Thanks guys

CPT

[NAZ]

Start here: http://www.theblowershop.com/wp-cont...ompression.pdf to help you pick a piston that will give you the CR with those heads to match the boost you want to run. Then contact a big name cam grinder such as Howard's or Comp Cams and discuss what they recommend for a pump gas blown lightweight street car with your combination. Remember, a blower cam is very different than a NA cam. Also, you can actually run a bit more CR with the right cam. Don't try to pick one out of a catalog -- use the manufacturer's tech line and you'll be much happier.

[CptRanger]

Thanks for all the advice. I have been searching and researching this and have decided. If I am going with a blown gen 1 why not just make it a 383? Well blueprint makes a 383 with an all 4340 forged rotating assembly and 8.5:1 compression perfect. Blueprint also makes some handy factory five packages with tranny, bellhousing and engine accessories. So I called blueprint and I think his name is Tim is looking into modifying a package just for me using the 383 power added longblock and adding the tranny and accessories WOOT! He is going to email me with all the details. So thanks guys!

CPT

[NAZ]

Sounds like a good plan. You're more likely to be happy with a combo that is designed around your needs rather than trying to adapt something designed for a different purpose.

[TomK]

I like your style.
Any concerns with clearance for the blower pulley and belt?

[wrp]

Now your mind is made up stand by it. Always someone knows something cheaper and better. What you cannot imagine is what a hoot it is driving these things.

[DarthTedious]

Just wanted to second TomK's point, careful on your up front clearance with the engine mounts provided by FFR, I only have about 3" in front of my harmonic damper before I would hit the steering rack. I'm running a SBC with a short water pump and a 5 rib serpentine setup and only have about 1.5" actual gap.