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Thread: Drag radials on all 4 corners

  1. #1
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    Drag radials on all 4 corners

    I am in the market for tires. I have the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T tires and I like the way they look but they just did not have the grip I was looking for. I spoke with tech support at Mickey Thompson and was told there would not be a significant increase in grip going from the Sportsman S/T to the Sportsman S/R. The Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T, Cooper Cobras and the BFG Radial T/A, all have a treadwear rating of 400 to 440. I doubt any of the tires in this range have significant advantage over the others but that is just my opinion. I could not find the treadwear rating for the Sportsman S/R tires, but from reading about them, most say they are better than the BFGs or the Sportsman S/Ts they ran previously.

    I am looking at running drag radials on all 4 corners. Specifically Nitto NT555R 275/50R15 on the rear and Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S 235/60R15 on the front. A couple things to note. I do not track my car or drive near the limits in cornering and I am not worried about the paint because I completely lack paint at this point in time. I do not street race but when I step on the gas, I want to go and not spin the tires and I want to stop better when the brakes are applied. I do not drive in the rain and it rarely gets below 40 here in San Antonio, Texas. Besides much shorter life and poor performance in the cold (sub 40*) and rain, are there any pitfalls to running drag radials on all 4 corners for every day cruising? The new dodge Demon sports drag radials on all 4 corners from the factory, just sayin'.

    Back story:
    Hp is probably short of 400 hp. Naturally aspirated / carb'd 347 ci engine. Flat top pistons with reliefs for twisted wedge heads. Approximately 10.2:1 CR. F5R 3-link rear with 3:73 rear gears. TKO500 transmission.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  2. #2
    Senior Member CDXXVII's Avatar
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    Nitto NT555G2 is what I run without issue. Ford Racing 427 535HP.

    If you are not tracking it I can not see what benefit you would get from running track tires on the street.

    Best thing to do is to tame the beast (pedal control). I get spirited from time to time and seldom if ever get loose anymore.

  3. #3
    Senior Member 6t8dart's Avatar
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    I guess this is a loaded question. Drag tires are not good for cornering. they have soft sidewalls and will roll under while cornering. however, you are correct, the Demon does have drag tires. I suspect these are a special build for them, they probably have soft compound, but stiffer sidewalls than a normal DR. WIth that being said....for normal cruising around, they will probably be fine. However, I would probabaly go with the M.T. S/R tires, they have a few 15" sizes, and they have a softer 300 treadwear.

    I am looking at going with smaller "street" type tires on mine and will probably end up with a S/R tire on 15x8 Rocket Sunburst Wheels.

    IM000189.JPG

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDXXVII View Post
    Nitto NT555G2 is what I run without issue. Ford Racing 427 535HP.

    If you are not tracking it I can not see what benefit you would get from running track tires on the street.

    Best thing to do is to tame the beast (pedal control). I get spirited from time to time and seldom if ever get loose anymore.
    The tires you are running are 320 treadwear rated. As far as I know there is nothing in that range for 15" wheels available. It is an either / or scenario. The only options are 400+ (BFG Radial T/A, Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T, Cooper Cobras, etc.) and the 100 rated tires (drag radials). There is no middle ground that I have been able to find. I am not a fan of 17"+ wheels on a Cobra. So because of my wheel preference, I only have choices in hard tires (which I am not happy with) or really soft tires (I am willing to try) with nothing in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6t8dart View Post
    I guess this is a loaded question. Drag tires are not good for cornering. they have soft sidewalls and will roll under while cornering. however, you are correct, the Demon does have drag tires. I suspect these are a special build for them, they probably have soft compound, but stiffer sidewalls than a normal DR. WIth that being said....for normal cruising around, they will probably be fine. However, I would probabaly go with the M.T. S/R tires, they have a few 15" sizes, and they have a softer 300 treadwear.

    I am looking at going with smaller "street" type tires on mine and will probably end up with a S/R tire on 15x8 Rocket Sunburst Wheels.

    IM000189.JPG
    I am interested in where you found the MT S/R tire has 300 treadware rating. I could not find that information and when I went right to the horse's mouth and called MT tech support they said the S/R tires would not have much more traction, if any, than the S/T tires I am currently running. I did look at them before progressing to looking at drag radials. If the S/R tire is a 300 treadwear rated tire, that would be the single option between the 400s and drag radials for 15" wheels.

    Per these, the "Product Development Manager at Mickey Thompson Tires" says the compound for the S/R tires is a "touring" compound, which I would think gives some credence to your 300 Treadwear claim, but I have not found any decisive evidence that supports or contradicts the 300 treadwear claim.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-moulton-9319284
    http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=119112
    Last edited by slaga; 08-18-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  5. #5
    Senior Member BEAR-AvHistory's Avatar
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    555R on both ends. 245X40X17 - 315X35X17. Shoe polish stripes don't show any roll under at 23/24PSI under Auto-X loads.

    Have not yet run a road course. They don't seem to be non-cage friendly to our cars.

    EDIT:Tread Wear 100.
    Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-19-2017 at 02:49 PM.
    Kevin
    MKIV #8234
    Coyote '14/TKO-600/3-Link 3:55 Rear
    I love the smell of 100 octane in the morning.
    NITTO NT01 275X40X17ZR - 315X35ZRX17
    Delivered 2/7/14 - Plate "COYOTE NC1965" 3/25/15

  6. #6
    CobraboyDR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6t8dart View Post
    I guess this is a loaded question. Drag tires are not good for cornering. they have soft sidewalls and will roll under while cornering. however, you are correct, the Demon does have drag tires. I suspect these are a special build for them, they probably have soft compound, but stiffer sidewalls than a normal DR. WIth that being said....for normal cruising around, they will probably be fine. However, I would probabaly go with the M.T. S/R tires, they have a few 15" sizes, and they have a softer 300 treadwear.

    I am looking at going with smaller "street" type tires on mine and will probably end up with a S/R tire on 15x8 Rocket Sunburst Wheels.

    IM000189.JPG
    Those wheels are amazing. I understood they were incompatible with the FFR roadster because of the back spacing. What is your experience? Any chance of more detailed pics?

  7. #7
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Guys don't get too excited by the wear numbers on tires. I don't know why but, if they translated directly to performance, the Sumi HTRZs that no one seems to think have traction, would not be 160AA rated.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  8. #8
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    As the OP, it isn't as much fixating on treadwear numbers as much as feeling that the grouping of the common tires for 15" wheels is either roughly in the 400 range (BFG Radial T/A, M/T Sportsman S/T, Cooper Cobra, etc.) or 100 (drag radials) without anything in between except possibly the Avon tires, which are cost prohibitive for me. The elephant in the room is the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R, which may (or may not) be measurably better than the group in the 400s. At least that is my point of view. The group in the 400s are all pretty much similar to me where no tire in the group is significantly better than the others.

    I have made my decision to try drag radials for my next set of tires because I know my current tires, M/T Sportsman S/T, are just not cutting it for me. The only grippier options are the Avons, cost prohibitive, and the drag radials.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  9. #9

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    The 15" wheels just don't give you many options especially on the performance end of the equation.
    You may want to consider getting a set of 17" or 18" wheels and tires just to do track days.
    I had the "Want To Run 15's Dilemma" and ended up buying 17's with 245/45 Nitto's up front with 285/40's out back, but they are the standard Nitto 555's, not the drag radials.
    Hoosier does make some sports car tires that are quite stickie, but don't get caught in the rain or even a drizzle.

    https://www.summitracing.com/search/...5&N=4294920795
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 08-20-2017 at 07:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    All the 15" tires that have been mentioned in this thread are decent Street tires and have plenty of grip. Going to drag radials is an option but they are called that for a reason. Avons are where you need to be if you want a very nice street tire. While I agree they are not cheap, they are the best for what you are looking for. Personnally I have yet to let loose on my MT's as I never have had reason to and doubt I will.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

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    I did not go into this decision light-heartedly or without research. If there is an area of the country that the ambient conditions are conducive to running drag radials, San Antonio Texas falls in that area. Around 40 degrees is the point most say to be wary of drag radials. Here in San Antonio the average low drops below 40 in January only, and even then the average low for that month is 38.6 degrees. That is the average overnight low, not the high temperature during the day. In January, the coldest month of the year, the average high is 62.1. Rain? We get rain in spurts. In May, June and and October most of the rain comes when there are tropical storms in the Gulf but even then there may be stretches of 3 to 10 days at a time where it will be too wet to drive but the rest of the time it is clear and sunny. I do not have to worry about those summer afternoon thunder showers that happened when I lived in NC and TN. I would venture to say that 85% of the time throughout the year, including winter, I can find a 3 to 5 hour window to drive in where there is no rain expected and the temperature will be between 60 and 90 here in San Antonio. The only other place I have lived that might be just as good is Phoenix, AZ.

    Something I neglected to say here, and mentioned on the "other" site, was that due to the longer than anticipated build, my brand new tires were 6 years old before i drove my first mile. Now they are about 8 years old and have 1,800 miles on them. I whole-heartedly admit part of my my "issue" might be the age of the tires. They were kept in my enclosed garage away from the elements that entire time but tires still age and get hard whether you drive them or not. The performance of these tires on my Cobra are at least a level behind the P235/55R17 that I have on my completely stock 2007 Mustang GT. That is the rub for me. I want the grip, including braking, to be on par with the my daily driver at a minimum, and I do not get that right now.

    As for my driving style, aka "letting loose" or "pedal control", lets just say that I have not had an at fault accident or caught the attention of a law enforcement officer for any moving violation in over 25 years. My driving style is pretty conservative and I am as worried about stopping as much as I am going.

    Thank you all for your concerns. No one has provided any negative for my intended use other than what I already was aware of. I will let you know my observations after my first couple thousand miles.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  12. #12
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    Replace those eight-year old tires NOW! I took 7-years to build a large race car trailer once and it set outside that entire time on new and very expensive heavy duty trailer tires. At a little over 6-years five of the six experienced catastrophic failure without ever being on the street -- blew the treads right off of them just setting there in the driveway. When they tell you tires have a shelf life believe them. I'm retired and own seven street vehicles and three trailers that get driven very little. I replace the tires on these every 5-6 years and none of them are worn much at all. Some of these are $250 to $400 plus a piece so the cost of replacement can be significant. The special off-road tires on my Ford F550 cost $2,654.20 a set and this truck gets driven less than 2,000 miles a year, mostly trailering my horses. Expensive? Yes, but what is your life and the lives of your loved ones worth?

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    Replacement tires were ordered last Friday. Both are drag radials and neither manufacturer designates the tires as strip only.

    Rears are Nitto NT 555R - 275/50R15 - Manufacturer states "The NT555R is the drag radial for the street or strip."
    555R.JPG

    And the fronts are Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S - 235/60R15. Manufacturer states "A street tire that can be driven on the track".
    ET Street SS.JPG

    I will let you all know how i feel about them after a couple thousand miles. Wish me luck.
    Last edited by slaga; 08-22-2017 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Added manufacturer verbiage
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  14. #14
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    The fact the 2018 Dodge Demon is sporting drag radials on the front from the factory really got me thinking about whether or not there is any safety issue with drag radials on the front of my car. When turning, the front tires are fighting inertia to make the front of the vehicle change direction. So the front weight bias (the mass being forced to move) and the height of the sidewall (lever by which the force is acting) is really the driving force on the stress in the sidewalls of the tires. I am basically calculating the torque the tread is putting on the bead of the tire in the calculations below and the thing between them that transmits the forces is the sidewall. The actual load calculated below is not as important as much as the ratio. Going around any corner, at any speed, the sidewalls of the drag radials on the Dodge Demon will experience more than twice the load as the sidewalls in the tires in my car. Basically, I am more than doubling the factor of safety the engineers at Dodge are comfortable with for the Demon. I am feeling more confident in my decision.

    2018 Dodge Demon:
    Weight: 4,250 to 4,500 lb – I used 4,375 as it was right in the middle.
    Weight bias 58f/42r: 2,537.5/1,837.5
    315/40 R18
    Tire OD: 28.03
    Sidewall ht: ~5"
    Lateral load: (2,537.5 lb x 5")/2 = 6,343.75 lb in

    My Cobra:
    Weight: 2,240 lb
    Weight bias 48f/52r: 1,075.2/1,164.8
    235/60 R15
    Tire OD: 26.2"
    Sidewall ht: 5.6"
    Lateral load: (1,075.2 lb x 5.6")/2 = 3,010.56 lb in

    A few caveats:
    Demon is sporting Nittos and I am sporting Mickey Thompson tires. Obviously different manufactures will have different sidewall construction which will impact the stress the sidewalls see.
    I am pretty confident the Demon has a higher center of gravity and front roll center, which means more weight will be transferred from the inside tire to the outside tire in a turn on the Demon. This pushes the ratio even further in my favor.
    I am unsure if the width of the tread has any impact on the sidewall load but the Demon definitely has a wider tread. I am unsure if this helps or hinders the tread/sidewall rolling over in a turn.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  15. #15
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    First impressions (1st 100 miles) = No regrets so far:
    I am starting at 24 psi all the way around, which is a little more pressure than I ran with the non drag radials tires. I still need to do the chalk or shoe polish thing to find the right psi.

    Pros:
    • My initial reaction is I stop (main goal in putting them on the front) and accelerate much better. The car feels more planted. I never push(ed) the limits laterally, even with the MT Sportsman S/T’s. I have no comments concerning lateral traction. Big plus! Goal accomplished.
    • The person that said they ride like you are on marshmallows is spot on. It is a much cushier feel than the M/T Sportsman S/T tires I had previously, almost like riding on a cushion of air. The bridge transitions on the interstate were noticeably smoother, despite using a little more air pressure. I do not feel every crevice or ripple in the road. I guess that last sentence could be a negative but with the relatively tight suspension I find it a positive. The jolt of pot holes, bridge transitions, etc. is diminished.

    Cons:
    • Because of the cushier feel the car feels like it bounces over bumps a little more than before.
    • The drag radials seem to follow the grooves in the road more than the Sportsman S/T tires did. Not bad but it is noticeable.
    • It takes more effort maneuvering in parking lots. It is more than noticeable. I do not have power steering and opted for the quick ratio steering rack so I have compounded the steering wheel effort issue by adding drag radials to the front. In my opinion, stopping quicker was/is more important than the added steering effort required. This makes perfect sense but was not something I considered before the purchase.
    • Cost twice as much and last 25% as long (maybe even less), compared to the Sportsman S/T.

    I also want to say that I am in no way bashing on the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T tires. They are great all weather passenger car tires. I even like the way they looked on my car better than the drag radials do. I just wanted more bite than they offered.
    Aaron

    Holley 650 DP / Performer RPM Intake / Twisted Wedge Heads / 347 ci / TKO500 / 3.73 rear gears

  16. #16
    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    When developing your optimum tire pressures it's best to use a tire temp probe (or at least an IR temp gun) across the surface. It will show you where the contact patch has the most pressure; i.e. hotter in the middle the tire is overinflated. On the front this may be skewed some from your camber adjustment.

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