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Thread: Engine position.

  1. #1
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    Engine position.

    I am looking for guidance from the pros. Now that I can get my car up on a lift, I get an excellent view of the bottom of the car. I now notice that my engine (bottom of the Canton 8 qt oil pan) is not as parallel to the frame as I thought. I placed a magnetic degree gauge to the bottom of the oil pan as well as the top surface of the valve covers. Both indicate the engine is 3 1/5 degrees lower in the back in relation to the cars frame. During engine installation, I shimmed the rear of the transmission up 1/5" . (You can tell from my footnote which engine and trans I have.) If I were to revisit my trans shilms, I could get the engine parallel to the frame, but i dont know whether this is important. The idea of the engine not being parallel with the frame bothers me.

    Again, before I tackle this, which will be a bit of work, I thought I would consult you all.
    Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8658. 04 of 20. 3.31 IRS.
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    Senior Member CDXXVII's Avatar
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    My engine position is about the same as yours but I am using nearly an inch of spacers at the trans. rear. Ford Racing 427, TKO 600, 3-Link Rear. Pretty sure it is standard for the engine to slope down to the rear of the car. Not sure if it makes a difference with the IRS setup.

  3. #3
    Well Used Member boat737's Avatar
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    The engine/trans angle relative to the frame is not the important issue. The drive shaft angles and alignment are the important considerations. I too started with a 1" trans shim, but changed to a 7/8" shim for better drive shaft angles. Search for driveshaft alignment (such as " site:http://thefactoryfiveforum.com ...haft alignment " in google.) There are lot's of threads on the subject.

    Edit: I used the term driveshaft angles. Pinion angle and operating angles are a better way to describe and understand what needs to be adjusted and set.
    Last edited by boat737; 09-24-2017 at 08:49 PM.
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    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Angle in relation to the frame is a non-issue. The relationship between the engine/trans and pinion is important.

    Jeff

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    Thanks all for the input. I'll revisit my angles tomorrow.
    Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8658. 04 of 20. 3.31 IRS.
    Forte 427 Dart, TKO 600, Quick Fuel 780 carb. Delivered 9/2/2015, First start/Go Cart 2/18/2017.
    Road Legal August 31, 2017

  6. #6
    Out Drivin' Gumball's Avatar
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    Jay - nothing new with my response compared to the others. Engine position; i.e., bottom of pan in relation to the frame is a non-issue. Mine is tilted slightly in order to get everything to fit properly - mostly dictated by the header positioning and how the engine wants to cradle in the mounts on the chassis. The important thing, I've learned, is not just pinion angle in relation to the transmission output shaft, but the "working angles" of the U joints. Those angles should be between .5 and 4 degrees.
    Later,
    Chris

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    Jay, I think I remember you having an angle gauge, but I can bring my digital one over if you want, it's precise to 1/100 of a degree. I agree with others, the rear pinion is definitely not parallel to the frame, therefore the engine/tranny shouldn't be either. I'll be looking for an excuse to get out tomorrow for a drive and I'd love to see the new lift too. Let me know your thoughts!

    -TJ

  8. #8

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    I just had to include my favorite video on U-Joint phasing video since Drive Shaft Angles are near and dear to my heart.

    https://youtu.be/gmV4qwLfOMY

    Find your pinion angle of your pumpkin and try to set your driveline as close to that angle as possible so that you can get it spot on perfect.
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 09-24-2017 at 09:50 PM.

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    Seasoned Citizen NAZ's Avatar
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    The footnote says you have a carbureted engine so take a look at the intake manifold and you will likely see that the carb mounting flange on the manifold is not level when the engine is. It probably slopes down a degree or two in front. Typically engines are mounted with the front higher than the rear so to make the carb set level the manifolds have the carb mounting flange angled. As others have said, the angle of the engine in reference to the frame is not critical but in an ideal world you do want your carb fuel bowls to be close to level. But whatever installation angle you end up with you must ensure the pinion angle matches the trans output shaft angle (as others have pointed out). If your IRS won't accommodate adjusting pinion angles then you may find it necessary to adjust the trans output shaft angle to match the pinion angle. However you decide to accomplish matching angles the important thing is that they are on the same angle to minimize driveshaft vibration. The video link GDG posted above should make it very clear why.

  11. #10
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    Jeepurz came thru today. Car on the lift and settled with a 1" aluminum spacer under trans. Pinion angle much better, oil pan less exposed and sidepipes much more level. I know, its either level or not level. Much more level. Naz, I did notice the carb tilted slightly forward. Interesting. I feel much better about pinion angle as well as engine position.
    Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8658. 04 of 20. 3.31 IRS.
    Forte 427 Dart, TKO 600, Quick Fuel 780 carb. Delivered 9/2/2015, First start/Go Cart 2/18/2017.
    Road Legal August 31, 2017

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