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Thread: Boy I just love love love this manual.

  1. #41
    Dave I like the idea of owners/builders only having input. You may want to do it by the major manual sections. That way you only have 6 or 7 threads. There isn't a huge amount wrong per se, its just sequence issues and omissions. Too many re used Cobra pictures in some cases, etc. I would try to flag updates and revisions as they come out.

    Try it and see what the feed back is. We can only complain about both the manual and the thread then.

  2. #42
    EFI Rules and Carbs Drool Arrowhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    I'd like to offer an idea of a Community based Build Instructions forum for the Hotrod.

    My idea is to have thread that have, say, each 10 pages as it's topic (or a logical grouping based on the steps).

    Each FIRST POST is the OFFICIAL set of steps included in those pages, with either the original content or UPDATED content. The posts below the first post are for user input and corrections.

    I (and the mods, plus maybe 1 or two build experts per vehicle) would control the thread creation in this forum. An Example thread list(with made-up pg #'s, it's just an example):

    Prereq 1: Tools
    Prereq 2: Body Buck
    STEP 1: Inventory pgs 3-4
    STEP 2: Front Suspension pgs 5-8
    STEP 3: Rear suspension pgs 15-18
    STEP 4: Driver's pedals pgs 9-15 <-- corrected build sequence order example

    That way the first post can be maintained and updated as needed, and the posts below can be a way for the community to suggest changes, add relevant pics, etc. Good suggestions from posts below could be weaved into the "official" first post.

    Maybe - as an additional idea - also we could limit viewing and participation to self-declared Hotrod Owners? I could create a Hotrod user category that allows access to the forum? Frankly, I'd prefer owners only having input.

    Thoughts?

    Dave, maybe it's time to open up access to the wiki pages that are already part of this forum. It looks like FFR has the only access, it's a way underutilized resource.

    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/content.php?143-wikis

    Also, i'm not clear on the content. Is it to clarify and expand on the build manual? Or to provide tips and tricks (like we started on the "other" forum)? What about all the other and future FFR models? I can see people getting very creative with the new truck and, as us builders inevitably do, come up with solutions to problems that don't exist. Are we trying to provide a condensed version of the collective forum knowledge? Will there be a dedicated forum and subgroups for the truck? (If FFR keeps this up were gonna crash this software HaHa) Maybe open up the current wiki for public viewing, but only be edited by owners/builders? Just some random thoughts, George
    Arrowhead's '33 Hot Rod Build Site:
    http://sites.google.com/site/arrowheadshotrodsite/Home

  3. #43
    I agree with Arrowhead on this one that the Wiki should be considered before a thread based system. I don't like it with the threads as there always seems to be issues with the threads jumping around post getting knocked out of order somehow.

    I do like the idea of owners only... It will keep comments and updates from the peanut gallery who have never built, or are not building, a Hot Rod.


    I don't like the idea of only master builders being able to have any input or make updates. While I have not finished my car and I am not a "master builder" I think I still have plenty to offer. I can do many photos (former new paper photographer and still have all the equipment) and even though I have not been through some stages of the car, I might come up with a solution that no one else has. (Maybe... It could happen) I would say to open it to Hot Rod owners but have the master builders with the rights to correct any issues they come across. Then later if someone keeps posting updates that are wrong or uncalled for you can remove their access for "violations"
    Tim Sapp


    Build Thread: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    "If Krass and Bernie can do it why can't I?"

  4. #44
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    If we go with the thread model it will feed the WIKI.

    I'm going to order a manual from FFR and set up the forum with some "beta users" to get feedback, sometime this week and we'll see how it goes. I really want to try and help out on this commonly discussed topic...


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  5. #45
    EFI Rules and Carbs Drool Arrowhead's Avatar
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    Sounds great Dave. Maybe this will help get things started. Here are the seven updates I had gotten with the links. I'm curious to see if the manual you get incorporates these updates. Hope this helps, George

    4/9/14
    - Door Hinge/Frame/Door Assembly
    - Engine Side Covers Install
    - Transmission Tunnel Cover Install
    - Fuel Tank Install
    - Master Cylinder Install
    - Striker Cover
    - Fuel Tank Side Cover Install
    - Headlight Connections
    https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...t=33-Update-1V

    5/16/14
    - Ignition Switch Wiring
    - Steering Column Wiring
    - Fan Wiring
    - Fan Thermostat Switch
    https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...Update-May2014

    7/25/14
    - Steering Column Wiring
    https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...pdate-July2014

    8/6/15
    - Front Suspension
    - 4-Link Suspension
    - 3-Link Suspension
    - Power Windows
    - Carpet
    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...-manual-update

    3/11/16
    - Door Hinge Fitment
    - Hood Hinge Stricker
    - Optional Clutch Cable Hole
    - Shorty Pipes and Mufflers
    - Rear Exit Exhaust
    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...nual-update-2H

    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...nual-update-2H

    6/28/16

    - Optional Parts Instructions
    - Front Coil-Over Shock Assembly
    - Rear Coil-Over Shock Assembly
    - 2015 IRS
    - Pedal Box
    - Engine, Transmission, and Driveshaft
    - Driveshaft Lengths
    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...-Manual-Update

    1/16/17
    - Optional Hardtop Exterior Door Handle
    (broken link)
    Arrowhead's '33 Hot Rod Build Site:
    http://sites.google.com/site/arrowheadshotrodsite/Home

  6. #46
    Dave, I agree with the "owners only" approach but would include our custom builders who do many more of these than the rest of us. The key is that all changes/upgrades to the manuals need to be vetted by a central committee of experienced builders of the specific vehicle. I would also suggest sections of your documents to include the changes to assembly steps (grill/radiator/overflow stack), recommended enhancements to improve both safety and functionality of components( silver shocks must be installed upright only), special tools and techniques to ease assembly, (Clecos, air riveter, proper rivnuts), and drive train specific tips to help with installations specific to that brand (LS, Coyote, etc).

    Yeah, something needs to be done to the process but for one time builders like myself I'm afraid it's to late to help most of us. I will finish mine soon and look back at it as an adventure; one not for the foolhardy. Thanks fof all your help.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Big Blocker's Avatar
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    Papa,

    I absolutely love your post #11 . . . almost 20 years in Telecommunications that was network driven, I truly appreciate what you posted, is EXACTLY what I worked with 24/7. Ha! Gotta love the "FM" cloud . . .

    Dave, I know you already know this aspect of building: Everyone builds their car differently, to their own taste or purpose of use.

    I wish you all the luck in the world trying to make a build manual that covers every aspect of every possible installation scenario for every possible builders idea of HOW it should be.

    FWIW, customization precludes a manual for the masses and really only works in a very generic way - sorry.

    Doc
    Last edited by Big Blocker; 12-06-2017 at 07:56 PM.
    FFR3712K (MKII) in Lost Wages Nevada.
    5.0 w/tubular GT-40 EFI, E303 cam, Custom 4 into 4 headers, T5, 3-Link 3.73 rear. Full F5 tubular suspension. Drop Butt mod, Dash forward mod, custom foot box air vents, custom turn signal system. 13" PBR brakes, Fiero E-Brake mod, Flaming River 18:1 rack w/ F5 bump steer kit on Breeze bushings. 17" Chrome Cobra "R's" w/ 275 fronts and 315 rears. MKIV seats. FORD Royal Blue w/ Arctic White stripes.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blocker View Post

    I wish you all the luck in the world trying to make a build manual that covers every aspect of every possible installation scenario for every possible builders idea of HOW it should be.



    Doc
    How about a manual that's CORRECT for a stock build? Is that too much to ask? EVIDENTLY.
    Last edited by carbon fiber; 12-06-2017 at 08:04 PM.

  9. #49
    Guess I'll wait for a while before I order a manual. Was hoping to order the hot rod in Feb.
    I liked the "FM" cloud too. We always referred to the custom equipment the customer thought we built as standard run of the mill equipment as "vapor ware". Just get the order and we'll figure it out after we have the PO. Lack of complete manuals were also a big problem.
    Hope things get better quickly. Good job Arrowhead.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowhead View Post
    Sounds great Dave. Maybe this will help get things started. Here are the seven updates I had gotten with the links. I'm curious to see if the manual you get incorporates these updates. Hope this helps, George

    8/6/15
    - Front Suspension
    - 4-Link Suspension
    - 3-Link Suspension
    - Power Windows
    - Carpet
    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...-manual-update


    6/28/16

    - Optional Parts Instructions
    - Front Coil-Over Shock Assembly
    - Rear Coil-Over Shock Assembly
    - 2015 IRS
    - Pedal Box
    - Engine, Transmission, and Driveshaft
    - Driveshaft Lengths
    http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conten...-Manual-Update

    Arrowhead,

    I have checked my manual 2o for the two updates above and the update from 8/6/2015 is complete with no issues. The update from 6/28/2016 has a couple errors in it.



    On page 15 of the update the following line is not present in my manual.

    Attach the clutch cable to the firewall spacer using the small #6 screw provided and wrench.



    and

    On Page 19 of the update

    the Appendixes are different and my manual is missing

    Fill the engine and Transmission with fluids. See Appendix K for specifications and capacities.



    Everything else including the screwed up words like "pedal travel.terference." appear to be word for word out of the update.
    Tim Sapp


    Build Thread: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    "If Krass and Bernie can do it why can't I?"

  11. #51
    Whoa, don't let a few negative comments stop you from joining our club. Yes, the manual needs work. The pictures and some steps are out of sequence. The comments you've seen here are directed at improving what is already a very usable document. I encourage you to buy the digital copy and install it on your pc/tablet. Go through it a bit at a time and compare it with the comments in the forums and you will quickly find the discrepancies. I have never built a complete car before this one and my background is computer hardware not auto mechanics. I've dabbled in fixing broken cars to save money over the years but that's it. If you have even the basic skills needed to do basic maintenance on your family vehicles you can build one of these cars. You'll be amazed at how quickly the car goes from boxes to go cart. You'll find your build will be much easier when you understand that there are dozens of experienced builders to help you. Key among them are the guys at Factory Five. Get to know them and use them at every opportunity to make this project more fun. Go for it. Buy the manual, consider the build school and don't sweat the small stuff.

  12. #52
    Sorry, weird double post.
    Tim Sapp


    Build Thread: http://hotrod.sapp-family.com/blog/

    "If Krass and Bernie can do it why can't I?"

  13. #53
    Ditto what Brave Salmon said. Most of us use the manual as a rough guide. I know I have changed many things in my build from what the manual dictates. That is what makes the 33 so awesome. The possibilities are almost limitless as to what you can do with this car to make yours and unlike any other on the road.

  14. #54
    I wouldn't be scared off either, it's a great kit. Still a bargain for what you get IMO. I've seen from everything from drag style with a blower to road race style with aerodynamic aides.

  15. #55
    I have to say that for me it wasn't the individual "errors and omissions" as much as the out of sequence issues. I certainly wasn't building from the box and have become accustomed to 80% documentation I guess. The other thing that I have mentioned several times in various places is the hidden cost of things that may be manufacturing or design issues ignored by the manual. Also things like a lack of dimensions and intended suspension geometry. Sorry, but a measurement from floor to frame is not an accurate method of getting the control arms in the ideal location. Following the manual easily cost me double in wheels and tires on the rear. The manual I have states to use a specific rear differential width and specific back space, however the wheels FFR was selling did not match those dimensions! I noticed they no longer offer them either. Given what's readily available on the market in wheels will probably result in using the later model rear that is wider. The MKIV however does prefer the earlier narrow rear and that's how most of the problems with the manual and the products started. Cobra cut and paste.
    It is what it is. Until you put an $80k car in the mirror, the $40k you have to spend seems to exceed the sweat equity...

  16. #56
    OK, thanks for the positive thoughts. I'm a good wrench with years of fixing cars, rebuilding car and motorcycle engines, engine swaps, suspension upgrades, etc.
    With you guys that have already gone thru this if I do run into a problem I'm sure one or more of you can answer my question(s).

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