818 Project Updates From Dave

[Dave Smith]

Still focusing on the body shape and the inveil to see which goes first on the mil. As far as running gear and parts list, that is not a bad idea and we are probably closer than most would think to an accurate BOM and donor/subaru parts list

Lastly, the diesel tech from west philly was discussed at length with Simon at the Open House as he was anxious to plug this into a car (the 818) with less frontal area, lower coefficient of drag and a much lower vehicle weight. I committed to Simon that he would get one of the very first 818 chassis for his powerplant which is TDI 4 cylinder with audi trans. His very enthusiastic predictions are 75 mpg in regular driving so IF one body design (coupe) can deliver a low drag number, low frontal area, and meet the 1800 lb weight target... then all we have to do is deliver good weather sealing (HUGE effort there) then one variant can be a build-it-yourself high mileage capable car that can be built for a reasonable cost. Even more exciting is the R&D access we have with Ford Racing (I just tonight spoke to one of the managers there about a variant of the ecoboost four and three that Ford wants us to look at with the firm belief that the direct injected gas turbo motors they are still developing can meet or exceed the tdi plant).

Exciting stuff, but we have been careful to stick to claims we can meet based on our actual data and experience as well as stick to nodes we've promised (next up is model and body selection).

The 818 must be our best new product launch by a log scale... it is that important.

oh, one more thing about the body shapes. It will be a giant slayer and the shape MUST not go to production unless the great majority of people who see it in person have their hair burst into flames the second they see it.

[riptide motorsport]

The Carma is right with this one.......I can feel it............Steven

[thebeerbaron]

It will be a giant slayer and the shape MUST not go to production unless the great majority of people who see it in person have their hair burst into flames the second they see it.

Have you seen my hair? It's a wooly, shaggy mess most of the time. Impervious to water and oil, traps sand and grit. Occasionally a small child gets lost in there. You'd better have some freaking napalm ready...

[Cooluser23]

I always liked Direct injected motors. They have a cool diesel like sound and great low end torque (especially with turbos)

Motors I like:
Audi TFSI 4-banger
Mazdaspeed MZR 4-banger
GM Ecotec LNF 4-banger

[Mad Dog]

Spy shot of concept 1 roadster and concept 2 coupe scale models.

Jim - Dave said it was ok. Sorry!

[Steve91T]

Wow! Thanks for the pictures! Can I ask about the wheels? They look great with what looks to be 20's, but what will they look like with a more reasonable wheel like 17's?

[PhyrraM]

As long as the O.D. is close to the OEM Subaru size, the overall looks shouldn't impacted too much.

And, yes Steve, these look better...but they don't have a "body" for comparision.

I'm particularly curious about the blue car. I pretty much hated the contest entry drawings of it.

[D2W]

The blue car is Rodney Olmos's design. (second place winner). I really liked it before, can't wait to see the whole thing

Dave, how long before we get to see them all?

[Nelff]

my opinion...

LOVE the rear of the Roadster, it needs to be a coupe.

Hate the rear of the Coupe. For me the inset eyes are beady and the square undertray looks out of place. Everything else up to the tail light panel looks great!

Like I said, opinion. Everyone will have one...

[thebeerbaron]

I find the blue car intriguing.

[Dave Smith]

The fourth model is being made... Ive been very careful to NOT release full shots of any of the cars as I am very interested in seeing them stand side by side and all enjoy a fair shake. I dont see any downsides since we've reduced the time (with a great new supplier) to go from concept to scaled CAD file to scale model greatly. Also, the important thing to realize is that the tech behind the body shaping HAD to be all new with the 818. The product goal of multiple bodies, involving the community, and the speed to market ALL these things required an all-new approach to the classic challenge of shaping, plug making, mold making, mold refining, and production. I could not be happier since the pace has involved the secure and successful accomplishment of the first half of the body shaping/making process that is all new to us. This patient path will deliver a way to make shapes quickly and purpose chassis in different directions. I was emphatic that this project take the company in a new direction. Still, at the end of the day, the car will not be a success, no matter how well engineered the cahssis is, no matter how fast it is, no matter how easy it is to build, no matter how affordable it is... In the end it HAS to be a drop-dead gorgeous exotic car. No-one builds their own car to be boring. Have faith that I will flush all models down the toilet if they dont deliver jaw-dropping looks.

[Doc_FFR]

The blue one is amazing. Olmos's design is truly unlike anything else on the road.

[olpro]

One suggestion, make the models the same color if you don't want color to distort the results when you show them against each other.

[Join]

I find the blue car intriguing.

+1 to that!

[Dave Smith]

We discussed this at length (colors all the same) and felt that the submissions were made in some colors and the cars would be boring if they were all the same color. The downside is exactly what you said, as it may skew the results and not keep the evals on even footing. We still have time to make the change once we see em all together. good suggestion.

also, the idea of beer baron running around with flaming dreadlocks is classic... dont worry, we'll put the flames out after a good run and some video...

[thebeerbaron]

Dave: its a 'fro, not dreadlocks, but I'd be happy for you to light it on fire.

Olpro: is there a universal color for models in this stage? Something that shows off the curves without blowing highlights or saturating shadows?

[olpro]

Since you are going to be presenting these proposals on line, it is fairly easy to change colors for the bake-off in Photoshop.
It isn't always easy since one car may look great in black while another one looks terrible. Picking a common color for all will not present each one in its ideal color. Color preference is a big issue however. Every such marketing study I have participated in, and there have been dozens, always ends up with silver cars, which is admittedly rather boring. Personally I hate these marketing focus groups but every company out there, with multi-millions of dollars at risk, relies on them - and I really can't blame them.
You are still ahead to get valid comparative results rather than entertaining people.

[PhyrraM]

Is the no-paint gelcoat still a goal of the project? If so, then FFR may not even offer each body in every color.

Even though it's my least favorite (by far), I've got a soft spot for Olmos's because it was the most daring and out-of-the-box. I can appreciate that. Some of the most memorable production cars have been love-it or hate-it designs. I personally loved Marc Senger's designs.

[thebeerbaron]

Is the no-paint gelcoat still a goal of the project? If so, then FFR may not even offer each body in every color.

Actually, there's kind of a tangental point to that: if we knew what color the gelcoat is going to be (the other FFR cars are red), that wouldn't be a bad place to start. That way people would know what it would look like out of the box, so to speak.

Some of the most memorable production cars have been love-it or hate-it designs.

You've hit the nail on the head. To light hair on fire you've got to push boundaries, not make a smoothie out of elements that have worked in the past. There are other nails I'd like to see addressed (what is the language of lightweight?) but that one is a good starting point. I'd personally like to throttle Mr. Olmos for choosing to render his car in black, which hides a lot of detail, but of the four, I see it as having the most potential. Is it actually there? Gotta wait and see.

[D2W]

Dave, somebody else already suggested it so I'm just repeating. When you have the unveil is it possible to have a 1/4 scale person with the cars so it is easier to judge proportions?

[shinn497]

+1 to that!

Me too I didn't take notice of it before this pic. Something about it made it seem small and quaint, but side by side it is very very intriguing...

[Steve91T]

One comment on the way it may be visually heavy. I personally would rather have people blown away that my car is ONLY 1800 lbs than have to explain why its so heavy (if its made to look light). I like the look of the cars. They look substantial, like something that looks like a real car, not a grown ups go cart.

My opinion
Steve

[Doc_FFR]

Dave, somebody else already suggested it so I'm just repeating. When you have the unveil is it possible to have a 1/4 scale person with the cars so it is easier to judge proportions?

Could you have a quarter-size wookiee next to the car too? Maybe just a regular sized ewok. Yeah, an ewok should work.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I wasn't a big fan of the roadster when the judging results were announced (I likened it to a convertible Hyundai would build), but I have to say it looks better in this shot.

I always thought the Olmos design was interesting, but it didn't really appeal to me. I like cars that look more organic (sleek, flowing, and muscular) than mechanical (straight lines and sharp creases). However, I like the sense of bulk (in a good sense) in his design, and, in the picture above, the flow of the rear quarter to the back, and across the rear to the other side.

Dave hasn't confirmed anything yet, but my hunch is that the 818 open house will be scheduled soon.

[Tpa65cpe]

THANK YOU !!! Mr Smith for these new shots of the 818(s) side by side. By the way I liked the OLmos design in black but it looks KLLER in the royal blue!!! I hjave been in love with the 65 Coupe since I first found this site (2004) and have been trying to get finances straight to purchase one but after that photo I just changed my mind (think eye twitch,grin past the ears,and lightheaded due to blood rushing to other part of body) !!!! If you produce that coupe all interest will definitly be there!!!

[Tpa65cpe]

THANK YOU !!! Mr Smith for these new shots of the 818(s) side by side. By the way I liked the OLmos design in black but it looks KLLER in the royal blue!!! I hjave been in love with the 65 Coupe since I first found this site (2004) and have been trying to get finances straight to purchase one but after that photo I just changed my mind (think eye twitch,grin past the ears,and lightheaded due to blood rushing to other part of body) !!!! If you produce that coupe all interest will definitly be there!!! Kudos go out to MAD DOG for a really great rear shot!!!

[Draco-REX]

I always preferred the 2nd place entry. And after seeing the tail that goes with the nose, I like it even more. It's not the most aerodynamic, but just looks BA.

[ArtGirl]

Dave: its a 'fro, not dreadlocks, but I'd be happy for you to light it on fire.

Olpro: is there a universal color for models in this stage? Something that shows off the curves without blowing highlights or saturating shadows?

Silver. Industry standard.

[dclin]

Love the concept 2/Olmos design; it manages to evoke cars of the past like the Cobra coupe and roadster, yet still have a fresh, modern feel. If the FF can keep the proportions from the design submission, I'll definitely be building one of these.

[adesilva]

Cant say im a fan of the coupe.. even though I much prefer a coupe (being from MA and weather changing in seconds).. it just looks strange to me.. not high end exotic but just something totally different you wouldnt expect to see on the road.. not sure how i feel about it.

[Slaughter]

Hurry up and take my money.

[kach22i]

I like the way the FFR team resolved the transitional planes and curves on the rear deck of concept 2/Olmos design (blue car). There was a little quirkiness in the original design, it's all sorted out now.

I thought for sure that the first place design (black car with open top) would be the one converted into a coupe (would also have to change windshield inward tapper). I've been wrong before, there ya go.

The giant wheels help preserve the original spirit of these designs without a lot of major redesigning. I think a lot of headaches and heartaches were prevented, smart move.

They look great, I'm surprised to see them at all though. Thought they were to be 1/4 scale only to start with. This new supplier is kind of a miracle worker, I'm in awe.

EDIT:
Found this picture, seems to fit the current situation (in a good way).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-t...pics-1899.html
294070_10150327353903194_209865103193_7989015_1652204479_n.jpg

[Drew2.0]

The rear on the blue coupe looks good, model actually looks better than the the draft... I agree with Nelff the rear diffuser section looking out of place/ the silver pieces look like hard drives... Also I would like to say Dave you're the man! I'm pretty sure what ever the end product it will be a stunner.

[Drew2.0]

Kach big wheels are awesome! And I'm with you on that- I hope the final product leaves room for aggressive wheel fitment and offset, I read somewhere else in the forum that it would be limited to wheels specs as on previous subie models (donor car) I hope not cause we will be stuck with 17x7... I want the option to go 19x12 in the back! below is my design rocking huge wheels, he he

[kach22i]

Kach big wheels are awesome!

The Chrysler Crossfire pulled off the big wheel thing very well. However I'm not sure if the car enthusiast crowd completely accepted it as a sports car though.

It takes more than big wheels to make a sporty car, but I'm sure that everybody here already respects that. The giant spinner crowd, this is not.

[16g-95gsx]

Did anyone note that the Blue one is a hardtop?

[apexanimal]

a boosted ford engine would be interesting as a tdi alternative... could be made to give some serious power too...


+1 for all models in silver/grey...

[thebeerbaron]

Did anyone note that the Blue one is a hardtop?

I believe Mad Dog mentioned it when he posted the pics, or Dave mentioned it afterwards. The question is why was that one the coupe? It doesn't look like a fuel-efficient shape to me, if the coupe were destined for the gas-sipper.

[Steve91T]

I believe Mad Dog mentioned it when he posted the pics, or Dave mentioned it afterwards. The question is why was that one the coupe? It doesn't look like a fuel-efficient shape to me, if the coupe were destined for the gas-sipper.

I think because there are people who want a hard top, like me. I think there's going to be a roadster, coupe, something else (maybe track only), and then the super slippery high mileage TDI.

Steve

[crackedcornish]

I think because there are people who want a hard top, like me. I think there's going to be a roadster, coupe, something else (maybe track only), and then the super slippery high mileage TDI.

Steve

and I'm hoping at least one of them won't look like it's sticking it's rear end up in the air.....what's up with all these designs having the back of the car so high???