818 Project Updates From Dave

[Oppenheimer]

I can appreciate the value of a good nanny, especially one you can turn off at will. Want to drive my overpowered, fun car to work on a slick, rainy day? Turn on the nannies.

I'm for one am not denegrating the GTR, just pointing out that its a very different animal than the 818. Complex, expensive, heavy.

[Twinspool]

Nissan's engineers were clever and resourceful, the car moves but the price you have to pay is in consumables. You can't cheat Mr. Newton and that car is a bloated hog. In 15-20 years it will be regarded in exactly the same way that the 3000GT VR4 is now. A clutch burning, brake eating, tire chewing semi-fast maintenance hog that has zero racing credibility. At least the RX-7 and 8 can point to the DNA of the 1990 24 hours of Le Mans winner.

[mekeys]

If you still want your AWD Subaru running gear in a tube frame kit, here it is:

http://www.murtayasportscars.co.uk/

I hear they cost twice the price of an 818.

If you want to read more about the UK kit cars go to www.totalkitcar.com

Mel

[el_jefe]

Nissan's engineers were clever and resourceful, the car moves but the price you have to pay is in consumables. You can't cheat Mr. Newton and that car is a bloated hog. In 15-20 years it will be regarded in exactly the same way that the 3000GT VR4 is now. A clutch burning, brake eating, tire chewing semi-fast maintenance hog that has zero racing credibility. At least the RX-7 and 8 can point to the DNA of the 1990 24 hours of Le Mans winner.

*cough*Group A, JGTC, FIA GT*cough*

But yeah, she is a big girl. Which is why I like kit cars, I can bypass all the safety nazis. Rather than build a car that can withstand an impact from a Chevy Suburban, I'd rather have one that can get out of the way.

[Movieman]

*cough*Group A, JGTC, FIA GT*cough*

But yeah, she is a big girl. Which is why I like kit cars, I can bypass all the safety nazis. Rather than build a car that can withstand an impact from a Chevy Suburban, I'd rather have one that can get out of the way.

I agree with you but there is always Murphy's Law and some moron will sometime appear to bend the laws of Physics just to hit you.
When and if that happens I want a car under me that will take the hit.
That is what first drew me to FFR.
I may be pharaphasing but I beleive David Smiths line to his people was:
" Remember a human soul rides in every car we make"

[el_jefe]

I ride motorcycles, I just assume some idiot is going to hit me. . .

again

[Niburu]

So maybe we need to start insulting the car again, it worked the last time.....

[keys2heaven]

^^

Nah, but I think a monthly update would be prudent. This has got to be a lot of hard work bringing something like this into reality. And with all the tweaks to Rodney's design and the potential to have a body finalized in a couple of months, then it would be nice to know where FFR is at in the process. The holidays could have delayed things a bit as well.

[Niburu]

Have they even said if they've got a running chassis go-kart yet?

[Oppenheimer]

Relax. Dave said there would be a long period of no updates. I can relate to his position, if he tries to throw us a bone and just give us a quick update, he will be peppered with questions, and not responding would be worse than just keeping mum in the first place. We must be patient.

[keys2heaven]

^^

Define "long period of no updates."

A month, 2 months, 6 months? It's relative and my very humble opinion is that monthly updates would be nice.

[NicksPapaw]

Patience young grasshopper, Patience

[Niburu]

but I'm tired of knitpicking over the design of the body
I want something new to knitpick over

[D2W]

I think a once-monthly blog by Dave to just let us know what's going on with development would be great. No questions or comments just FFR's progress or lack thereof and Dave's thought's. It would give the handful of us left here watching something new to talk about. (Its been interesting watching this forum die with the lack of information from Dave. There use to be regularly 40 or more people on this sub-forum at a time, now its lucky to have 20.)

[Oppenheimer]

I think they are trying to go heads-down and knock some stuff out. Dave said before the holidays that they would go dark for a spell. How long? He didn't elaborate, but I'd guess its however long it takes them to reach whatever milestone(s) he had in mind. I would think though that it shouldn't be longer than 2 months. I don't think Dave would let us go that long without something.

[RM1SepEx]

My trip to visit and get more detailed photos of the other models triggered where we are now:

A reminder

Dave didn't think ANY of the models would meet their goals when scaled to full size, That's why I posted that photo of him sheilding the models vs more detailed photos...

Ongoing:

In house body shaping of model 4, Jim's design, they were doing MASSIVE changes
They are working with The Rhode Island School of Design to rework / revise Xabier's design
He was working with Rodney too, offline
The contest winner was shelved
They are still considering other designs, timing wise I'm guessing those will be longer term...

Remember the design and Mfg process have to support the no paint panels to meet their goals...

I'm guessing that my 52 years and two teen aged kids have helped to develop more patience... :-)

I expect it may be another couple of months...

HANG IN THERE!

[WIS89]

Hey guys-

Not that my opinion matters, and you are welcome to ignore or disparage me in any way you choose. However, I suspect that our patience will be rewarded with a superior product.

I guess I look at the 818 progress and updates similarly to the way many of us have when we work on our projects, whether our cars, or other similar projects regardless if these projects are for pleasure or work. Quite simply, life gets in the way. I suspect there are many fine folks working very hard, but on multiple priorities, and frankly-- probably shifting priorities, and therefore it's taking a little longer than many would like to get an appreciable update on this project.

There is no malice here, and I suspect that the folks at FF would like to tell us many things. However, I suspect the delay has to do with significant milestones, and other project related issues. My viewpoint is simply that we are likely to see a more refined product, as well as a more exciting design that will likely please most of us a great deal. However, in order to get this, we have to wait a little longer, and I am OK with that.

You all can rip me apart and suggest that I am smoking something for taking this position, and that's fine. I just have faith that when we are updated, that it will be worth the delay! I also suspect that there are valid reasons for the delay, and that we may be made aware of some of those reasons, and never know about others. However, do we really think that we will be let down? I don't, and am ready to give them the benefit of the doubt, despite my desire to see this project sooner rather than later.

OK, I am jumping off my soapbox... fire away if you wish. However, I welcome you to join those of us that are willing to offer some patience in anticipation of an awesome end result. This is just my two cents, and you all can begin your assault at will.

Regards,

Steve

[Xusia]

+1 to the last 2 posts!

[skullandbones]

The keyword as mentioned in 975 and 977, milestone. I don't think Dave will publish anything until there is something to really talk about. He has reiterated that he wants to meet certain focused goals or milestones. One of the most important is coming up.

I think he wants to avoid what I hate when I am at work in the middle of a project and someone comments or critiques my work before I am ready to show it off. In some cases, they don't even know where you are going with it but there is still an opinion. JMO. WEK.

[skullandbones]

The keyword as mentioned in 975 and 977, milestone. I don't think Dave will publish anything until there is something to really talk about. He has reiterated that he wants to meet certain focused goals or milestones. One of the most important is coming up.

I think he wants to avoid what I hate when I am at work in the middle of a project and someone comments or critiques my work before I am ready to show it off. In some cases, they don't even know where you are going with it but there is still an opinion. JMO. WEK.

[Niburu]

I think he wants to avoid what I hate when I am at work in the middle of a project and someone comments or critiques my work before I am ready to show it off. In some cases, they don't even know where you are going with it but there is still an opinion. JMO. WEK.

Very true, but at the same time it's something everyone in the 818 Forum is good at - stating opinions, making commentary, or delivering critques.

[Silvertop]

I think a once-monthly blog by Dave to just let us know what's going on with development would be great. No questions or comments just FFR's progress or lack thereof and Dave's thought's. It would give the handful of us left here watching something new to talk about. (Its been interesting watching this forum die with the lack of information from Dave. There use to be regularly 40 or more people on this sub-forum at a time, now its lucky to have 20.)

I suspect that this subforum isn't really dying. The fact that there isn't much exciting news from FFR right now probably just means that many of the regular participants are simply not signing on as often, mostly because there really is no need. When there is something to talk about, they'll come flooding back. Most everybody is still out there -- Just lurking quietly.

Personally, I echo the sentiments of those forum members who recognize that sometimes no news is good news. That the FFR people are quiet because they are working hard to get the project to a point where there is something of significance to tell us.

I'll sit quietly and wait for a March bombshell........

[Dave Smith]

Guys,

I've been HUGELY (is that a word?) waylaid with business matters and the guys are making good progress on the 818. The fact is that I am in the final days of a year-long effort to buy the remainder of the company from my partner-brother. The downside has been that I have been a virtual mole in my office and dealing with lawyers and banks. This effort is almost done and the regular and important updates to the 818 will resume. I'm sorry about this and sorta warned a bit of a dry spell was ahead. I know of 100 projects that are going on simultaneously but at this stage there isnt much 818 news to report. I think this forum/traffic section will pick up as we approach production and provide more substantial news. The guys are making good headway.

[keys2heaven]

^^

Thanks Dave. Here's to a successful wrap up of your acquisition!

Weather is going to start getting warmer and I'm getting a fever of 818 degrees! It just might set my hair on fire.

[Xusia]

Lol

[D2W]

I suspect that this subforum isn't really dying.

You're right, dying was the wrong word. Hibernating is more appropriate.

[Silvertop]

You're right, dying was the wrong word. Hibernating is more appropriate.

Well, that's fair enough!

[Silvertop]

You're right, dying was the wrong word. Hibernating is more appropriate.

Well, that's fair enough!

[RM1SepEx]

Hibernation leaves me more time to clear out/up existing projects! :-)

I'm sure that the buy out is both complex and mentaly exhausting, as an engineer as well I'm much better at and more comfortable working "project" issues vs. interpersonal ones...

Hang in there Dave, we look forward to some awesome news in the Spring! (my timing "guess" not Dave's!)

off my soap box and back to a combination of tax and FAFSA prep and finishing my 1990/1994 1.8 Miata engine swap, suspension update...

snowing outside winter may have actually arrived here in the Northeast

Dan

[thestigwins]

Dave, I have a suggestion.. Can you make a new thread that is just for updates on the build from you. Lock it down so only you can post in it and then sticky the thread to the top of the 818 forums.


Thanks,

Grant

[jimgood]

Grant, you read my mind (or I read yours). I was just going to post the same thing.

I'd also like to request that this be on the forum, not on FaceBook, please.

[G-Man_STI]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and tried reading this thread in its entirety but my eyes started to glaze over after 12 pages or so. I'm sure it was discussed about the open diff in the 5 speed?

[Draco-REX]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and tried reading this thread in its entirety but my eyes started to glaze over after 12 pages or so. I'm sure it was discussed about the open diff in the 5 speed?

There are no plans for FFR to supply a LSD due to price constraints. But there are a lot of aftermarket options. The OBS front LSD is inexpensive compared to its competition, but requires some inexpensive,though labor-intensive, upgrades to make it reasonably reliable.

[thestigwins]

Bump, Dave we miss hearing from you!

[peffem]

Dave, Grant has a great idea, a sticky post with just your updates to the 818 progress reports from you and FFR staft.
Ed

[Cooluser23]

Dave, Grant has a great idea, a sticky post with just your updates to the 818 progress reports from you and FFR staft.
Ed

+1 much faster to read.

[Dave Smith]

The suggestion of a dedicated update page is a solid idea and I'll start one. We have our Moochfest (winter open house) this weekend and I was going to give a breif update on where we are with the project. I have to do a reception Friday evening and we are trying to launch our new website before Moochfest so cramming it all together might give you guys a better idea of where we are and where we are going with a more accurate timeline. I know it's gone dark on the 818. Part of that was by design and part was due to just a swarm of projects and a lack of time to go back and forth on decisions that I decided to make unilaterally. You guys have been patient and great. The ideas and suggestions and questions on the 818 have made a tremendous difference in the direction, design, and development of the car, even if that isnt readily appearant. Like always, thanks for the help. Dave

[kach22i]

............... and we are trying to launch our new website

Oh oh, let's hope you have better luck than Audiogon, that has been a disaster for them.

[hakalugi]

subscribed... yes, late to the party, but i read all two dozen pages in a few days.

I bought a FFR manual 10 yrs ago, with the hope of someday building one. then the gtm stole my heart. now a smaller/cheaper kit has my attention. I've owned american v8 muscle, but my current DailyDriver is a 2.5L turbo Subaru OBXT which i love, and it's the 3rd subie in my family. Even with an open diff and RWD only, this is going to be exciting. I too think that orange/black rendering on the final pages is (.)(.)

Glad to hear rumors, on another feedback thread, that the in-house choice was being reworked, especially if it may be the production platform - it did remind me too much of an MR2 on the sides, nothing personal against Jim's design, just an observation.

I watched the ustream broadcast. the in-person feedback went for "track version first". I'll cast my community vote for a targa top model first. one of the drags of a roadster is no realistic dailyDriver factor, or even coupla-days-a-week-driver with the weather being non-sandiego. storage for the targa top is key, if i was willing to leave my top at home, i'd just get a true roadster.

and yes, the track community is fervent, but even the targa version stipped down will be raced, and with an all weather-sealed cabin, you open yourself up to a larger buying base.

I also find the high MPG diesel concept very attractive, a 190HP TDI in a 2000 pound car will still be loads of fun on the roads. my OBXT with it's 265 HP and my normal (ahem) driving gets me way under 20MPG on avg. Having a smaller/lighter car with better performance and at 2-3x the MPG would be awesome, and allow younger guys like us, with kids still at home to justify it with the warden

Anyways, thanks for the update(s) Dave and co. looking forward to (finally) becoming a member of the FF family.

[mekeys]

I need to see them all in the same color before I could choose one..Any color but black..

Mel