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Thread: Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build

  1. #41
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim1855 View Post
    A friend that is building a coupe had to change a few things.

    IRS, 351 Windsor @ 427, T56 Magnum (not XL), Quicktime bellhousing. He's moving the engine forward about 2 inches and down about an inch. The T56 hit chassis steel and the transmission mount didn't fit as described in the manual. The shift tower hit trans tunnel steel. The end result is a complete new engine mount system and modified trans mount. Will also need to modify diagonal bracing in front of the oil pan for clearance even when using a rear sump pan but this is due to the engine position change.

    We fit my spare block and his driveline components using the Energy engine & trans mounts. This provided a real installation test. The combination actually fits well once moved forward. Custom headers will be fabricated.

    There was also a pinion angle issue that was mostly corrected with the changes. As installed the diff center section was slightly rotated down at the input shaft. This was probably due to the diff support structure locations not being correct and 1 of the 4 diff bolts not in-line, a modified off-set bushing was machined.

    If the project includes a T56 I'd do whatever engine & trans test fitting you can once the diff assembly is installed. It will be a lot easier to correct early. The Coyote installation may be different enough that there isn't any interference.

    On gearing: There is NO correct answer, only a solution that works with your selected engine power curve and then meets your needs, expectations and driving style.
    On wheelbase: It's actually 95" according to FFR specs, not 96". Sorry not trying to be a PITA, that just happens naturally.

    Jim
    Hi Jim. Interesting comments. Also planning the same T56 Magnum. Not the XL. Obviously I have no way to know what will happen with mine until I get to that point. Probably some months (at least) depending on timing for the engine and which Coyote I end up using. I'm surprised about the fitment issues you're describing, as the 302/351/T56 combination is listed on the Gen 3 order sheet, so would seem it's a supported configuration. Without cutting and welding metal. Was there every any discussion with Factory Five about it? The three Gen 3 builds (that I know about anyway) from Factory Five were all Coyote builds, and at least one with the T56. So I'm hoping this is not an issue for my build. I do know for certain that a Coyote is shorter than the 302/351 block, at least in relation to where it sits. For the Roadster, they supply an adapter plate because the transmission mount doesn't reach the standard mounting location on the transmission A-frame. I just did a side-by-side comparison of my #7750 build (302 DART block) and #8674 (Coyote), both with TKO's. The transmission is 1-1/2 to 2 inches forward with the Coyote compared to the SBF. I will be fitting the engine/trans early in this build, before panels are permanently mounted, wiring/brake/fuel run, etc.

    Thanks for the correction on the wheelbase. 96 was the number in my mind, so didn't look it up. Thanks for pointing it out. I fixed my post.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-16-2017 at 11:27 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  2. #42
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    Paul,

    If the Coyote does sit 1-2 inches forward I would think that the interference issues disappear, that's all the farther Daryl is moving the Windsor forward.

    If I can assist with install I'd certainly be pleased to do so.

    And no, he didn't call FFR on the engine/trans location or the diff assembly installation problem. He just fixes and changes. Or from a different viewpoint, what would they have done? The only solution would have been a new chassis and redesigned mounts, just didn't see that happening.

    Jim

  3. #43
    Following along, after looking at kit car mags since I was a kid I am considering giving it a try and the 65 Coupe would be my choice, Looking forward to seeing your progress.

  4. #44
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Suspension Assembly Prep

    Yesterday I received four boxes from Factory Five. Down to 16 backordered items. Plus my three part issues (2 missing, 1 defective) were resolved. So making progress. But unfortunately all the IRS arms are still on the list, so won’t be making too much headway there. I did get the front LCA’s, so I have everything on hand to complete the front suspension less sway bar. Also yesterday I received my 3.73 Torsen differential. Had to come cross country and then got hung up in Chicago due to weather. But it arrived late last night. The one I had for #8674 was in good shape (zero miles take out) but wasn’t new in box like this one. Nice. But you do pay for it…





    I’ll be painting the case with POR15 and the rear cover with some Duplicolor clear, like before. I ordered the little fitting that goes into the vent because all the new ones I heard about didn’t have it. Mine didn’t either out of the box, but there was one in a bag taped inside the box. I haven’t weighed this thing yet, but it’s a chunk. Shipping weight in a box and strapped to a skid was 130 lbs. I’m sure it’s right around 100 lbs, similar to the iron case 3.55 that’s in #8674.

    I’ve been working on the hubs and spindles getting them ready to install. They were also new in box, so clean and fresh. First thing was to remove the 14mm x 1.5 metric studs and replace with the kit supplied 1/2" x 20 studs. That makes the rear studs match the front hub studs plus the FF Halibrand wheel lug nuts. The instructions say to pound out the old studs with a hammer. I’m not big on beating on things with a hammer, even though the hubs should be able to take it. Instead I cobbled up a piece from a 3-inch piece of black pipe and pressed them out using my bench vise. Less stressful for me plus the hubs. The cuts in the pipe allow it to clear and works pretty well. Getting a little beat up after two sets though.



    I put the new studs back in using a pneumatic impact wrench, a stack of three hardened washers, and a hardened 1/2" x 20 nut. I smear grease on the washers and the nut and they pull in OK after some chugging by the wrench. I’ve suggested this method to others and they also had success. Don’t use the lug nuts supplied with the wheel for this though. They’ll get beat up. Then I put some POR15 on the hubs. Certainly not necessary, but just prefer the look over the eventually rusty finish.

    Next up I cut the knuckles as shown in the instructions. I do leave a little more meat than what the instructions show. There’s no problem with clearance. I cut them on my band saw and then cleaned the ends on the stationary disk sander. Then drilled out the holes to 5/8-inch also as shown in the instructions. I fixtured the knuckles so they were held firmly and the hole exactly perpendicular to the drill bit. I used a step bit first as deep as I could go. That made the top part of the hole 5/8-inch and nice taper the rest of the way. The regular drill bit then finished the job smoothly without grabbing. Finally, I made some small covers out of aluminum sheet for the hole where the ABS sensors are mounted. No ABS for this build, and not sure that open hole directly into the bearings would be a good thing. Used some 1/4" x 20 machine screws to hold the covers.

    Like I did with #8674, I spend a little time with the knuckles cleaning up the parting lines in the castings. Combination of files, Dremel, sandpaper, etc. Again, certainly not necessary, but the kind of thing I enjoy doing. Strange, I know. Then assembled the hubs to the knuckles, torquing the bolts to the prescribed 98 foot pounds. I’ll be finishing them off with POR15 over the rest. I saw another build with the knuckles painted black, and liked the look. Matches the rest of the powder coated suspension parts.





    While I had the POR15 going, also put some on the front hubs. After removing the ABS tone rings. Same reasons. Prefer the more finished look plus they’ll get rusty if not finished. One thing to think about with the Coupe – with the tip front open, the entire front suspension is exposed.



    Next up will be to assemble the front suspension and brakes. Then hopefully will have the rest of the IRS parts to do the same for the rear suspension.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-19-2017 at 10:16 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  5. #45
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    Edwardb,

    How complete do you feel the new Coupe manual is? Does it need more info based on the Gen 3 version of the car? i'm not ready to build yet but thought of getting the PDF version to study.

    Thanks,
    Len
    1972 Corvette Stingray 350 c.i. Manual Steering & Brakes
    2003 H-D Softail Deuce 88 c.i. TwinCam
    Gen 3 Coupe Dreamer

  6. #46
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vette1972 View Post
    Edwardb,

    How complete do you feel the new Coupe manual is? Does it need more info based on the Gen 3 version of the car? i'm not ready to build yet but thought of getting the PDF version to study.

    Thanks,
    Len
    IMO the Gen 3 Coupe manual is a work in progress. But there is still a ton of information there (552 pages worth) and easily worth the $10 for the download. Lots of detail on the chassis assembly, body installation, etc. Little light still on the electrical side, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Also talks quite a bit of a donor build, and not sure how many of those will really happen with this kit. But you would learn a lot about the build. Even though I received a hard copy with my build, I paid for the download to have an electronic version. I keep it on my laptop so it's easily available plus I like how can search.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  7. #47
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Just a thought if you haven't already started: instead of doing POR15 on the differential like you did previously and I followed along with, why not just clear the whole thing since it's all new? Just thinking out loud, but if mine would have come that way, clear is exactly what I'd do to keep the new, pristine look that no one else will have.

    Also, any chance I can pay you to ship those blue axle plugs out my way when you're done with them and have the rear suspension built? Mine will be a long time in the making and it came filled with fluid so I get the lovely smell of gear oil and friction modifier in my garage
    Last edited by q4stix; 12-19-2017 at 02:04 PM.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  8. #48
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by q4stix View Post
    Just a thought if you haven't already started: instead of doing POR15 on the differential like you did previously and I followed along with, why not just clear the whole thing since it's all new? Just thinking out loud, but if mine would have come that way, clear is exactly what I'd do to keep the new, pristine look that no one else will have.

    Also, any chance I can pay you to ship those blue axle plugs out my way when you're done with them and have the rear suspension built? Mine will be a long time in the making and it came filled with fluid so I get the lovely smell of gear oil and friction modifier in my garage
    There are others building with new too, so I'm not the only one. Clear would be OK. But I just prefer the gloss black. I pulled one of the plugs and took a whiff of the fluid. Don't smell the very distinctive friction modifier. But then I'm not sure what new diffs come with. I'm not even sure it's full. Others with new units also questioned whether they were actually filled. Several just drained it and re-filled with the fluids Ford specifies. Likely I will do the same. Not sure why the Torsen would need the friction modifier, but Ford still calls it out on this one, so I'll do it. I'd prefer to keep the blue plugs. Never know for future builds. On #8674, I cleaned the edges and put some tape over them. Gorilla Tape (Home Depot, etc.) works great. They stayed sealed until I installed the axles.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-23-2017 at 07:27 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    IMO the Gen 3 Coupe manual is a work in progress. But there is still a ton of information there (552 pages worth) and easily worth the $10 for the download. Lots of detail on the chassis assembly, body installation, etc. Little light still on the electrical side, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Also talks quite a bit of a donor build, and not sure how many of those will really happen with this kit. But you would learn a lot about the build. Even though I received a hard copy with my build, I paid for the download to have an electronic version. I keep it on my laptop so it's easily available plus I like how can search.
    Thanks for the info. I will get the PDF and look at in detail. Really looking forward to following your build. The detail you offer for those to come behind you is invaluable.

    Merry Christmas!!
    1972 Corvette Stingray 350 c.i. Manual Steering & Brakes
    2003 H-D Softail Deuce 88 c.i. TwinCam
    Gen 3 Coupe Dreamer

  10. #50
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Front Suspension

    The front suspension is completely assembled except for the sway bar. Missing the sway bar bushings so can’t finish it yet. Everything else is done. The front suspension uses all the same components as the Roadster, so nothing too earthshaking here. Had to remove powder coat from holes, spread the tabs a bit on a couple, and adjust one of the holes just slightly on one LCA tab to get it to line up. Other than that, went together very normally and everything fit perfectly. I put grease into the LCA and UCA pivots before assembly. Confirms they are greased properly right from the start, plus makes them go together a little easier. I used a paint marker to indicate final torque completed as I went. For the upper ball joints, also put witness marks to monitor they aren’t moving.

    As mentioned before, did use Howe Racing 22320S ball joints. Also switched the upper ball joint and tie rod ends to Energy Suspension boots. I used the Breeze 3-turn Unisteer power steering rack. Before putting in the coilovers, I propped the suspension up to approximate ride height and tried to get the alignment a little in the ball park. On the UCA, have the front adjuster out 2-3 times as much as the rear one for caster, used a level on the brake disks and adjusted to -.5 degrees camber, then used a laser pointer on the brake disks to get the toe relatively straight to the chassis. Probably won’t be all that close when it’s time for the real alignment. But hopefully not totally random. I don’t have the brakes completely assembled yet. I’ll do the safety wires and finalize everything at the same time as the rear brakes. From earlier today:











    The last picture shows the Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends I’ve used on all my builds. They’re nice quality pieces, and I especially like how the threaded ends come through to the inside. Makes it real easy to confirm you have proper thread engagement. Plus eliminates having to trim the ends.

    Several observations from the assembly specific to the Coupe. Factory Five provides two sets of holes for all the components including the steering rack. The lower holes for street use, the upper for racing use. I used all the lower holes except at the last minute noticed the instructions said to use the upper holes for the upper coilover mount if using the double action Koni’s like I have. Good thing I read the instructions. I changed the direction of the bolt installation for the front LCA mount and the steering rack. Installed like shown in the instructions would have made them difficult if not impossible to remove once the radiator is installed. On the Anniversary Roadster #8674 build, also with the Koni double action shocks, I had to trim where the shocks mount on the LCA to eliminate interference. Wasn’t necessary this time. FF changed the mount tabs so they no longer interfere. Continuous improvement! Way to go.

    I also installed the steering column so I could center up the rack when installing and connecting the tie rod ends. Found out that I again had to mount the footbox steering shaft bearing on the inside of the footbox. Same as the Anniversary Roadster build, which had the same Breeze Unisteer power rack. Apparently that input shaft is slightly long. It’s not possible to get the steering shaft onto the rack input with the bearing on the outside of the footbox. Had to trim the bearing shells slightly along one edge, but other than that, no problem with it being inside. Another thing I noticed is Unisteer is now putting a groove around the entire diameter of the input shaft for the adapter set screw. So no matter where you orient it, the set screw drops into it. This is different than before (and most other racks) that just have a single cutout for the set screw. Then guys start wondering what to do when the steering wheel won't center with the rack.



    Next up is to get the center section prepped and installed. Still don’t have IRS control arms, so won’t be able to do too much more there until they arrive. Hopefully soon. Plenty of other stuff to keep working on.

    My son gave me this very cool 1:18 scale Daytona Coupe die-cast model for Christmas. Pretty well known model of the Coupe. I have the Cobra version already, so they’re a matched set. Well, except it's red. He said something about showing me how the Coupe needs to be blue. We’ll see.

    Last edited by edwardb; 12-22-2017 at 09:32 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  11. #51
    Nice looking die cast! I have the same one sitting in my office. You can always take it apart and repaint to your desired color! Another project for your down time

    Looking at how the steering shaft is routed do you anticipate having to swing it out of the way to get the motor in like you did on the MK4?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottscobra

  12. #52
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareaglescott View Post
    Looking at how the steering shaft is routed do you anticipate having to swing it out of the way to get the motor in like you did on the MK4?
    Hard to say until I get to that point. Just looking at the two side-by-side, seem pretty similar. So I'm guessing it will be necessary. But no big deal.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  13. #53
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Paul,

    What's your impression of the Type-65 regarding kit quality and engineering compared to the improvements made the Roadsters that you've previously built?
    Did the gang at Factory Five knock this one out of the park like they seemed to do when the MK-4 came on to the scene?
    Just wanted to get your impression.
    Merry Christmas!

    Steve

  14. #54
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    Paul,

    What's your impression of the Type-65 regarding kit quality and engineering compared to the improvements made the Roadsters that you've previously built?
    Did the gang at Factory Five knock this one out of the park like they seemed to do when the MK-4 came on to the scene?
    Just wanted to get your impression.
    Merry Christmas!

    Steve
    Hey Steve. I have a long way to go, so obviously can't give a complete answer. But my impression since seeing the new Coupe for the first time and now having one in progress in my garage is overwhelmingly positive. There are a lot of similarities to the Roadster builds I've done. Like the suspension I'm working now. The brakes, fuel tank, wiring harness, etc. But there are certainly some pretty radical differences mainly with the new chassis space frame design. The chassis is modern, clean, and obviously very strong. (I've bumped my head on it now a couple of times and can say it didn't budge at all. ) Watching other builds and now doing mine, I can see they are continuing to refine things. So it will only get better. Dave Smith mentions in one of his videos that this design shows how Factory Five has matured. The people, use of computer modeling, manufacturing methods, etc. I would have to say I see that. So far a big thumbs up.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  15. #55
    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo GoDadGo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your thoughts!

    The 1st Factory Five that I got to ride in and drive (Donor Built MK-3 302 SBF & Old Style IRS) was a nice car, but not refined.
    The 2nd Factory Five that I got to ride in and drive (Complete Kit MK-4, Super Charged Cobra Modular Motor & 3-Link) was light years ahead of the 1st.
    My pal Jerry has a 1st Gen Type 65 (Square X-Bar Front / 392 SBF & 3-Link) and it is very nice so I'm thinking that the 3rd Gen has got to be head and shoulders above the earlier models.

    Thanks Again & I'll Be Watching Your Latest Build!

    Merry Christmas!
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 12-23-2017 at 12:04 PM.

  16. #56
    Average Moderator Garry Bopp's Avatar
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    Steve,

    My coupe was a Gen 1 (#031) with IRS, as were all the early coupes. It drove and handled beautifully. A friend has a lovely Superformance roadster that left him stranded during a mountain cruise (bad clutch master cylinder). We loaded up his car in my trailer and I hauled it home for him, with him following me ... with him driving my coupe. He REALLY liked it!

    Garry
    I sure miss my coupe!

    F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker

    Coupe # 031, 422" Windsor stroker by Southern Automotive (Dash autographed by Peter Brock)***SOLD***
    Unique 427 Roadster, 482" Aluminum FE by Southern Automotive***SOLD***

  17. #57
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    IRS Prep

    Pretty minor update. But it's been below zero outside so I've been working in the basement instead of heating the garage. Today I finished prepping the IRS components. Now I just need my backordered control arms so I can get this all assembled onto the chassis. The first pic is a little silly, but I'll post it anyway. I hung parts in one end of the utility room in our basement to get them finished and let them dry. Why hang laundry when you can hang car parts? For the CV axles and driveshaft I put some Duplicolor DE1636 Engine Clear on the exposed metal parts so they don't get surface rust. I'm silly about things like that I guess. Same clear on the rear cover and pinion flange of the center section. I've used that spray for several builds and it seems to hold up really well. I did have things masked off before spraying, so didn't get any clear on the boots, mating metal parts, etc.



    Finished getting the center section prepped and ready. Drilled out the front ears to 5/8-inch per the instructions. That's probably only 1/16-inch or so bigger than it already is, so the drill bit wants to grab like crazy. I drilled as far as I could with a step drill and that helped. Then finished the rest with a regular drill. On the Roadster build, I used my pretty strong 1/2-inch corded drill. Man when that grabbed it about broke my wrists. So this time used an old 12-volt battery powered drill. Not very powerful, so rather than grab it would just stall. Without hurting me. Got them both drilled out and used the spinning bit to make the holes slightly oversized. The alignment to the chassis is really tight and I'm hoping this bit of clearance will make it a little easier to install.

    I also drained the fluid. There are no instructions in the box and no indication of what fluid or how much it came with when shipped. So I drained it into a catch pan and then measured the amount. 1.6 quarts or a little over 1.5 liters. Exactly how much it's supposed to have when full. Once drained, I could smell the distinctive odor of the friction modifier. So bottom line it was probably good to go. Unfortunately, I didn't think that was going to be the case. It just didn't seem like there was much in it. So didn't drain it into clean containers. Now I'll need to replace. About $50 worth of fluids there. 75W-85 synthetic gear lube is specified along with XL-3 friction modifier. Not sure why they list friction modifier for the Torsen center section, but they do. How much fluid is shipped in these has been asked about on the forum before, so thought I would provide my observation for those that buy the NIB Ford IRS center sections.

    Anyway, got the clear on as mentioned and then painted the iron case with POR15. That stuff is nice. Looks almost like powder coat. I also did the knuckles as I mentioned I was planning to do in a previous update. Also the sway bar mounts. In a day or two when this all sets up a little more, I'll get the center section into the chassis. I could use a good workout.



    The e-brake handle parts are also slightly visible on the shelf setting up. Painted those with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black Satin Aerosol, another product I really like. I have some more smaller projects I can work on. But hopefully the FedEx parts truck will be arriving any day now.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-27-2017 at 08:54 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  18. #58

    IRS center section install

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    In a day or two when this all sets up a little more, I'll get the center section into the chassis. I could use a good workout.
    I was able to install the IRS center section in my '33 without too much effort by using my engine hoist and a strap. It was just a matter of lifting the diff pointed up, then tipping it over with one hand while pumping the hoist lever with the other. It took me a couple of passes to refine the technique, but ended up going pretty easy. No broken knuckles and minimal cursing.
    Keith

    IRS Install.jpg

  19. #59
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmgr1 View Post
    I was able to install the IRS center section in my '33 without too much effort by using my engine hoist and a strap. It was just a matter of lifting the diff pointed up, then tipping it over with one hand while pumping the hoist lever with the other. It took me a couple of passes to refine the technique, but ended up going pretty easy. No broken knuckles and minimal cursing.
    Keith

    IRS Install.jpg
    LOL. That's almost exactly how I put the center section in my #8674 Roadster build a couple years ago. I may end up doing this one the same way. But first I'm going to try using my new lift and reverse the process, e.g. move the chassis onto a stationary center section. My needing a workout comment was mainly tongue in cheek. There's some physical effort, but it's not too bad. No way my back would tolerate me trying to lift that thing by myself.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  20. #60
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Center Section Installed Plus

    Today I was able to get the IRS center section installed into the chassis. Rather than using the shop crane and lift straps like the last time, I decided to try using my new lift to lower the chassis onto the diff. So piled a bunch of moving blankets, towels, etc. onto a cart and gave it a shot. Lowering the lift little-by-little as it went into position. Worked pretty well. I still found it necessary to hold the nose up as I was getting into the final position, so used a lifting strap on the Coupe’s built-in lift location (roll bar cage). Wouldn’t have been necessary with a helper. But by myself probably couldn’t have gotten it in without the added assist. Plus I was trying not to beat up my paint too much. Even though the chassis is very different than the Roadster, the installation is very similar. You need to point it up into the opening and get it into position with the center section front mounts above the chassis mount bushings. Then lift the rear up, get those bolts started, and drop (push, pull, tug, pry, etc.) the front down to the bushings and put those bolts in. Sounds easy enough, but once again found it was very tight. Eventually everything lined up OK, bolts went in with the help of the drift pins I made for the last build, and it’s all torqued down. Very happy to have that chunk where it belongs.









    Couple other things I’ve been working on. Spent yesterday assembling the hats and rotors for the Wilwood brakes, then completing the safety wiring. Torqued the 12 bolts in each to the specified 155 inch/lbs and used a little red Loctite. I’m careful to not go overboard with that stuff. I’m far from an expert doing safety wires. This is only my second time. The first being the same Wilwoods on #8674. The location of the bolts is not very friendly to thread the .032 lock wire. The wire tends to catch in the edges of the holes which is easy to do since the bolt heads are next to and below the rotor. I tried something I read about in another build thread. I very lightly chamfered the four small safety wire holes in each mounting screw. I used a 3/32-inch drill in my drill press and just touched the edge on each. I think it made the wire a little easier to thread. But it still a little tedious. Four completed rotor assemblies:



    I like using a fan shroud on the radiator. I saw in Mike Everson’s Gen 3 Coupe build thread that he used a fan shroud and confirmed that it fits OK. So I got the one that Breeze provides. http://www.breezeautomotive.com/deta...p?prod_id=1117. First thing up was to install four 10-32 nutserts for the fan mounting. I found out my fan tunnel sheet metal is different than Mikes, but it still fits OK. I checked with Factory Five, and they made a couple changes. I’m still waiting for my radiator mounting bracket. So will finalize this assembly once it’s received.



    Also got the e-brake handle assembled and installed. This is the in-house designed and built handle Factory Five has been using for several years now instead of the previous Mustang handle. I have one in #8674, and it seems to work fine. I do like to make a couple minor changes though. I swapped the provided nylon bushings for bronze oilite bushings. Seems more robust to me, but then maybe that’s a little old school. I also used a 10-32 bolt instead of the provided slotted spring pin for the pawl pivot. Again, just personal preference. I also added a couple washers on each of the pawl piece. Keeps it centered a little better. The Gen 3 Coupe has the e-brake on the tunnel. A common mod for Roadsters. It’s very nicely executed with a mounting bracket for the e-brake handle. The usual angled mounting brackets for the handle aren’t used. The cable routing is along the top of the tunnel and then around to the rear brakes. Direct and simple. I like it.



    Received word that IRS control arms are out for powder coat, and the powder coater is down for the holidays. So I’m probably at least a week away from getting them. I’ll keep plugging away on smaller stuff.
    Last edited by edwardb; 12-30-2017 at 12:56 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  21. #61
    Looking good! I'm following your progress closely...

    Based on your previous posts, I plan to give the POR-15 a try on the IRS center section and hubs - it looks like good stuff. I bought the starter pack to try it out.
    I will be using C-series Cerakote on all the exposed aluminum pieces (knuckles, body panels, etc).

    Guess it'll be hit or miss whether the IRS arms are out from powder-coat by next Saturday when I'm at FFR... here's hoping.

    One Q: are you using a PS pump or electric-over-hydraulic for your rack?

  22. #62
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwezxc12 View Post
    Looking good! I'm following your progress closely...

    Based on your previous posts, I plan to give the POR-15 a try on the IRS center section and hubs - it looks like good stuff. I bought the starter pack to try it out.
    I will be using C-series Cerakote on all the exposed aluminum pieces (knuckles, body panels, etc).

    Guess it'll be hit or miss whether the IRS arms are out from powder-coat by next Saturday when I'm at FFR... here's hoping.

    One Q: are you using a PS pump or electric-over-hydraulic for your rack?
    Thanks! Plan now is for an engine driven PS pump. Good luck with your pickup.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  23. #63
    Hey, Did you get your side pipes with your order? My Gen 3 #50 is still on backorder.

    thanks

  24. #64
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Automan View Post
    Hey, Did you get your side pipes with your order? My Gen 3 #50 is still on backorder.

    thanks
    Nope, no side pipes here. No specific promise date from Factory Five when I checked on all my parts earlier this week. I'm a couple months at least from that being a limiter.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  25. #65
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Gas Tank and Interior

    Been busy with New Year’s activities plus it’s been just crazy cold. But got a couple things done.

    First was the gas tank. Prepped the tank by flattening out the edges where they’re bent for the straps when installed in a Mustang. Many miss this line in the manual. Especially important for the new Coupe. More later.

    I’m using the Pro-M Racing High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger for 1986 – 1997 Mustangs. It has full 3/8-inch line for both the feed and return lines, 6AN fittings the fuel line connections, and the return tube goes to the bottom of the tank. I used this same hangar on #8674 and it’s a very nice quality piece. Their website has an interesting video that shows it in action. Not cheap, but the only hangar I know about with these features. It does require a couple of reliefs to be cut into the opening in the tank so it can go in and out. But it’s clearly explained in their instructions. I used a Dremel with a shop vac sucking up as many chips as I could while trimming. Then using the shop vac and compressed air made sure the tank was 100% clean afterwards. I haven’t purchased the actual pump motor yet. Probably will be a Walbro GSS340 255LPH pump, also the same as #8674. But waiting until the engine selection is finalized and confirm that’s the right one. So I just put the hangar in without the pump for now.

    Then added the sender from the kit, after checking it electrically, installed with the O-ring as the FF instructions state but also added a little Permatex Form-A-Gasket sealant. I’m using the Breeze big bore vent-check valve, as in previous builds, and also used a genuine Motorcraft part for the filler neck to tank seal. It’s Ford part number F4ZZ-9072-DA. Both are upgrades from the kit provided parts. Maybe not required, but easy to do now compared to later and stuff I've had good experience with.

    Then put the tank into the chassis. This is where the Coupe is a little different than the Roadster. The Roadster has four plastic bumpers that the tank is held against with the straps. The Coupe only has the front pair. The rear lip of the tank, and also some on each end, rest directly on chassis tubes that surround the tank area. Makes a very solid mounting which I really like. I am concerned though about the metal-to-metal contact. There is a roll of 1/16 x 1 inch self-adhesive neoprene type cushioning material in the kit. But I can’t find anything about it in the manual. For the tank installation itself, nothing is mentioned about any cushioning other than the bumpers. Maybe that material is supposed to used for the tank, but I don't know. I just have the tank in temporarily right now, and will have it back out to install the pump and finalize everything. I’ll add some cushioning around the perimeter at that time. I’m actually thinking 1/8 inch thick would be a little better. Easy get from McMaster if necessary.

    I did notice one small issue. With the tank in place, the normal location for the filler neck retainer is covered up by the chassis tubes the tank is resting on. My first thought is to attach the retainer to the chassis tube, probably on the outside edge, instead of the tank lip. We'll see when I actually install the filler neck later in the build.

    With the tank in place, I’m looking at a design for a storage bin over the lower section of the tank like I and many others do on the Roadster. First pass thinking of 23 wide x 16 long x 5-1/2 deep. I’m also planning a folding door over the top since it’s open under the hatch glass. For appearance and also for security. All easy enough to fab, bend and rivet. There will be no cutting of chassis tubing like some do with this mod on the Roadster. The Coupe tubes in this area are bigger and much heavier gauge. Obviously major structural elements, and I’m not touching them. The bin will fit around them, same as I did on #8674. It’s still very functional.



    The tape marks are where I'm planning the storage bin. Then 16 inches forward from there. Then a 2-piece carpeted door that folds forward. Similar to what Dark Water used to provide.



    Today I starting mocking up and thinking about how I want to do the interior and specifically the dash. I’m going to stick with the stock layout for the most part, but have a number of ideas on how I’m going to do it. I’ll share as I finalize more. I put the Speedhut gauges in the dash panel. Put some power to all and they appear to be working. Light up, needles swing, GPS acquires, etc. I've been looking at what seats I want to use. Right now seriously considering the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X. Still more research to do though. I have the standard low back Roadster seats that came with the kit as placeholders right now. But I've never planned to use them permanently.





    This planning and scheming part I especially enjoy.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-03-2018 at 08:08 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  26. #66
    When I helped my buddy build his Roadster, behind-dash space was at a real premium. How does the space on the Coupe compare?

  27. #67
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlirium View Post
    When I helped my buddy build his Roadster, behind-dash space was at a real premium. How does the space on the Coupe compare?
    There is considerably more space than a Roadster. But since many Coupe builds include heat and A/C (as this one will) that space gets used up pretty quickly. Ask me again later this year.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  28. #68
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    FWIW... I put the dash OVER the body and pinched in with the windshield... I had to trim the corners some to get the aluminum to lay flat... both the FFR cars I have seen have like your picture and you can see that entire edge after the glass installed...

    mine you can't there is no body seen through the windshield...

    here is a pic of it early on... you can see where the sharpie is... this is where the windshield sits and the aluminum (under all those clamps) sits on top... it make the dash slant up slightly but you can't really tell.



    Last edited by Erik W. Treves; 01-04-2018 at 01:24 AM.
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

    US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)

  29. #69
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves View Post
    FWIW... I put the dash OVER the body and pinched in with the windshield... I had to trim the corners some to get the aluminum to lay flat... both the FFR cars I have seen have like your picture and you can see that entire edge after the glass installed...

    mine you can't there is no body seen through the windshield...
    Thanks for the hint and pictures. I will definitely look at that. I was planning to cut the fiberglass edge back some -- at least even it up -- but putting the dash aluminum over is another option. I'm assuming you didn't use the bulb seal along the windshield edge of the dash aluminum like shown in the manual. Frankly, even if the dash aluminum is put under the body, I don't see how there's room for bulb seal on the dash aluminum. Just looking at what I have now, seems the bulb seal on the firewall would directly interfere.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  30. #70
    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    No bulb seal... added foam padding to the top of the dash only and the wrapped it in vinyl... with that it doesnt vibrate and seals up fine with added bonus is that the dash is completely removable buy just removing the screws at the front of the dash... nice and easy
    FFR 1879, Blown DSS 306,REDLINE management, VeryCoolParts Tuned 460RWHP

    FFR 818S, The Flash, Chassis #5, 2.0L, LSD, Electromotive TEC-S, VCP Tuned, 278RWHP 265 RWTQ

    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

    FFR 8335, Black Mamba, 289 FIA CSX 2001 tribute car, 347, 48 IDA webers, VCP Tuned, 311 RWHP 386 RWTQ, 3-link, Trigo's

    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

    US ARMY Maintenance Test Pilot (CW4 Retired)

  31. #71
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I was asked on the other forum about the view of instruments through the steering wheel while sitting in the seat, so thought I would post the response here as well. I'm very early in mocking things up. Don't even have seats yet so can't confirm 100% this is the view from sitting in the seat. But I think it's close. Tach and speedo are in good shape even with the thicker steering wheel. The smaller gauges not as good. When things get more finalized, I may put them in different holes so that the most important ones (e.g. oil pressure, water temp) have the best view. But I think it's going to be OK. The scribbling on the dash of other stuff is very preliminary. Looking at various options right now.



    Working on lots of little stuff, but nothing significant to post regarding overall progress. Today I'm re-doing the rear harness. Making it fit the layout of the Coupe a little better plus adding some wires for additions I'm making.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-11-2018 at 04:07 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  32. #72
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    Edwardb.

    With the progress you are making, the two year window seems to be much shorter. Great picture of dash layout. Enjoy watching, Thanks!

    Len
    1972 Corvette Stingray 350 c.i. Manual Steering & Brakes
    2003 H-D Softail Deuce 88 c.i. TwinCam
    Gen 3 Coupe Dreamer

  33. #73
    Senior Member cgundermann's Avatar
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    Your humming along Paul; looking good!

    Chris
    MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.

  34. #74
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vette1972 View Post
    Edwardb.

    With the progress you are making, the two year window seems to be much shorter. Great picture of dash layout. Enjoy watching, Thanks!

    Len
    Maybe. But still a ton of work ahead. I'm always a little conflicted over the build time. I really enjoy the researching, planning and building process. But also can't wait to experience the final product.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  35. #75


    Not a waxer
    Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Paul,
    Any interest in a carbon fiber dash and trans tunnel? My buddy Chris did a bunch of CF roadster dashes and spoilers before moving a couple of years ago and is getting back in the game. If there is interest he wants to start doing a Coupe package as well which would be the dash, gauge hood and tunnel top. I'll put you in touch if you'd like to speak with him.

    Jeff

  36. #76
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    Paul,
    Any interest in a carbon fiber dash and trans tunnel? My buddy Chris did a bunch of CF roadster dashes and spoilers before moving a couple of years ago and is getting back in the game. If there is interest he wants to start doing a Coupe package as well which would be the dash, gauge hood and tunnel top. I'll put you in touch if you'd like to speak with him.

    Jeff
    Hey Jeff. Funny you ask. That's one of the ideas I have on my interior brainstorming list. The seats I'm hoping fit have some CF inserts, so I was thinking about CF elsewhere. Wasn't thinking the whole dash. Maybe just the panel where the instruments are held and then maybe something with the center console as well. But who knows. Just very vague ideas at this point. Sure, I'd be interested in pursing further. Thanks.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  37. #77
    I am interested in CF as well. Right now I am planning to use the 3M CF film and it looks good but not sure how it will last in high wear areas like the center console
    David W

  38. #78
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    To also crash the thread but talk about the dash, I'd be interested in seeing what the carbon parts would cover and look like.
    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe builder

  39. #79
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    I have the information from Jeff, and will try to make contact next week. I'll update the build thread with whatever happens.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  40. #80

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