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Thread: Racing Your Type 65

  1. #1
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    Racing Your Type 65

    How many members do we have in here that race their Coupe on a road course or autocross? Whether competitively or just occasionally throwing it around course. I'm curious to see how many are here. I love having a group that can share some knowledge and ideas and everyone can improve.

    What brake setups work well? I'm considering using a Wilwood 14" front and 12.88" rear but I always like to hear experiences from others. Anyone used Stoptech, Brembo, or others with good or bad experiences on track?

    What kind of alignment specs work for your preferred driving style? Coming from a Corvette world I tend to prefer some oversteer as opposed to a neutral handling car but this is a totally new platform to me.

    What size front and rear tires make the car behave the way you want? Does a square setup work well on these cars? 315s all around or narrow up front?

    How many guys have played with ballast and what kind of weight bias do you prefer?
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  3. #3
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    Looks like some good info to read through. Thank you. Hopefully we can generate some discussion about setup. It's always beneficial to bounce ideas around.
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  4. #4
    Senior Member jkrueger's Avatar
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    I have ran my coupe in two One Lap of America races, but I mostly do track days with it now. I run a square 275 tire set up. I have 13" front Brembos and 12.8" Wilwoods on the rear. My car has a bit of oversteer to it. I like it that way. I'd have to look up my alignment specs. I don't run any ballast, but when I built the car I tried to position weight forward and on the right. These cars have a rear weight bias and the left rear is particularly heavy.

    JC
    Factory Five Type-65 Coupe:"Race Spec" coupe, Ordered 1/12, picked-up 5/12, roller 5/12, first start 10/12, finished 4/13
    Factory Five Roadster: Sold 12/2011.
    http://www.25tires.com

  5. #5
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    That's good info the have Jkrueger. How do you feel about that brake setup on course? Do you feel it's adequate?

    How do you like running 275s all around? Obviously tire costs are a bit more friendly. I'm actually a bit concerned with running too much tire in such a light car and not being able to get and keep heat in them.
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  6. #6
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Nick, Im currently using wilwood 6piston all around with 13" stoptech full floating rotors all around. To get the right feel and balance I played with the master cylinder sizes and settled on 7/8" front master, 1" rear master.

    When I was messing with brakes and trying to fix my pad knock back issues, I had tried the 2 piston floating stock mustang calipers up front and in rear and there was a braking difference for sure between wilwoods and stock stuff, I found wilwoods I could break deeper and more consistent then stocks, much better pedal feel and bite.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  7. #7
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post
    Nick, Im currently using wilwood 6piston all around with 13" stoptech full floating rotors all around. To get the right feel and balance I played with the master cylinder sizes and settled on 7/8" front master, 1" rear master.

    When I was messing with brakes and trying to fix my pad knock back issues, I had tried the 2 piston floating stock mustang calipers up front and in rear and there was a braking difference for sure between wilwoods and stock stuff, I found wilwoods I could break deeper and more consistent then stocks, much better pedal feel and bite.
    I'm planning on doing a full floater later on, but it won't be a part of the initial build. Do you feel the Wilwoods have any issues with heat on a road course? A lot of the local guys I run with like them for autocross but don't care for them on a road course.

    How has your experience with the Stoptech products and service been?
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  8. #8
    Senior Member jkrueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nskaats View Post
    That's good info the have Jkrueger. How do you feel about that brake setup on course? Do you feel it's adequate?

    How do you like running 275s all around? Obviously tire costs are a bit more friendly. I'm actually a bit concerned with running too much tire in such a light car and not being able to get and keep heat in them.
    My brakes are great. There is good balance, pedal feel and I've never had an over heating problem. I spent a lot of time with a race engineer friend figuring out the brake the system on my car before I even starting building it. After I finished building my Cobra using donor parts I was very disappointed in the braking system. My friend had a program that we could input car data and then play with rotor size, master cylinder size, caliper piston number and size. We got the system pretty close on the first try. I just had to play with bias and pad compound until I got it just the way I like it. I had a fair amount of rear pad knock back until I went with a full floating axle rear end. I have floating rotors on the front.

    The 275 square setup is pretty good. I think a 275/295 front with a 315 rear would be better. Even with my modest power level (365 rwhp)I can get a lot of oversteer at times. I've tried to tune it out with sway bars and now aero and I am making progress. I'm going to a bigger wing on the back (something like what John George has on his) so that would help in the higher speed corners.

    JC
    Factory Five Type-65 Coupe:"Race Spec" coupe, Ordered 1/12, picked-up 5/12, roller 5/12, first start 10/12, finished 4/13
    Factory Five Roadster: Sold 12/2011.
    http://www.25tires.com

  9. #9
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    jkrueger, that program sounds like something I'd be interested in!! I have a handful of customers that get brake upgrades and with all the products on the market now it's hard for them to choose which is best. Which brakes specifically do you have? I'd like to look at them before I pull the trigger on anything.

    I'm still leaning toward doing a 315 square setup on my car but the biggest driving factor in that is tire selection. For CAM the choice tire is the Rival S which only comes in a 315 or 275, and I don't think I'd want a 275 up front. I will have to ballast the car anyway to get it up to minimum weight, so it might be worth just adding weight to the front and running the 315s all around. Are you on a slick or spec street tire?
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  10. #10
    Senior Member jkrueger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nskaats View Post
    jkrueger, that program sounds like something I'd be interested in!! I have a handful of customers that get brake upgrades and with all the products on the market now it's hard for them to choose which is best. Which brakes specifically do you have? I'd like to look at them before I pull the trigger on anything.

    I'm still leaning toward doing a 315 square setup on my car but the biggest driving factor in that is tire selection. For CAM the choice tire is the Rival S which only comes in a 315 or 275, and I don't think I'd want a 275 up front. I will have to ballast the car anyway to get it up to minimum weight, so it might be worth just adding weight to the front and running the 315s all around. Are you on a slick or spec street tire?
    It is a neat program but I suspect it is proprietary to the company my friend worked for.

    Here is my brake setup:
    Front Brakes
    Pedal assembly Wilwood #340-11299, both pedal ratios 6.25:1
    Master Cylinder 5/8” Wilwood# 260-3372
    Rotors Bembo racing 328mm x 32mm, #09922639/49
    Calipers Bembo racing 4 piston 36/32 mm, #XB07703/04
    Max pad thickness 20mm
    Pads Pagid RS4-2 blue, PFC 7770, Pagid pad shape 1896 (20mm thick)
    Pagid pad shape 8030 (17mm thick)
    Pagid pad shape 1619 (25mm thick)
    (#1619 needs to be milled down to fit)
    Flexible Hoses 15” -3AN str by -3AN str, Russel #656030

    Rear Brakes
    Master Cylinder 5/8” Wilwood# 260-3372
    Rotors Wilwood GT48 SPEC 37 12.88” x 1.10”, #160-12961/62
    Rotor adapters Custom
    Calipers Wilwood Superlite 4R, 4 piston 31mm, #120-11782-BK
    Anti-knock back springs Performance Friction,6#, small bore(<36mm), 900.900.106.02
    Pads Wilwood #7416 polymatrix B
    Flexible Hoses same as front

    IMG_3752.jpgIMG_3765.jpgIMG_5816.jpgIMG_5818.jpgIMG_5821.jpg

    You can also go to 25tires.com and get more info on my car build and events I have run it in.

    JC
    Factory Five Type-65 Coupe:"Race Spec" coupe, Ordered 1/12, picked-up 5/12, roller 5/12, first start 10/12, finished 4/13
    Factory Five Roadster: Sold 12/2011.
    http://www.25tires.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nskaats View Post
    I'm planning on doing a full floater later on, but it won't be a part of the initial build. Do you feel the Wilwoods have any issues with heat on a road course? A lot of the local guys I run with like them for autocross but don't care for them on a road course.

    How has your experience with the Stoptech products and service been?
    Hi Nick, I didnt mean full floating rear end, I meant full floating rotor/cap for the brakes. No issues with heat on road course, I dont even run brake duct cooling. The Stoptech stuff is good although a little pricey.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  12. #12
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    What are the preferred options for sway bars for these cars? Or none at all?
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  13. #13
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    FFR has both front and rear swaybar options, which work well.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  14. #14
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    Johngeorge what shocks are you running on your car? I ordered mine with none as it's cheaper for me to buy much of that on my own as well. I also wasn't positive I wanted to run the Koni's, but if I do Koni is right up the street from my shop with some of their guys very involved in racing. I'm considering RideTech, JRi, and even QA1 at the moment. I do need to get some shock dimensions once the kit arrives.
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  15. #15
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    I’m running Koni double adjustable that FFR sells. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/1535...ble-shock-set/
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  16. #16
    Waiting for my 65 Coupe nskaats's Avatar
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    Have you been happy with them?
    --Nick Skaats--
    Gen 3 Coupe #80 - LS1/T56 - SCCA Bound
    Link To Album For Updates

  17. #17
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nskaats View Post
    Have you been happy with them?
    Yes happy with them. We did basic shock settings roughly finding the sweat spot but I believe more time needs to be dedicated to shock testing. A lot of performance can be gained by tuning shocks, but we were always fighting other issues (pad knockback, etc)... all has to be right before you start on shock testing.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  18. #18
    Junior Member Honeybadger's Avatar
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    Hi all - wanted to revive this and see what everyone is using on their dedicated track/race Type 65s now? I don't plan to have any aero, but will be running dedicated slicks - curious to see what folks are recommending these days

  19. #19
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    I can share plans but not much experience. I ordered a Coupe R at the end of 2021 and received the kit in September of 2022. I've been busting my butt to have it ready for this race season. Last month I did some high speed go karting and got a good feel for how all my custom off the grid solutions are working and so far I'm happy.

    I am running 315 squared on 10.5" rims. This is a cost effective solution since 10.5s are easy to find in the aftermarket Mustang world.

    I have custom valved double adjustable Bilstein shocks all around. I wanted a monotube shock with big rebound potential in the front so I worked with an engineer at Bilstein to make it happen. I have $3200 in four socks, but that's not much different than the upcharge for FFR double adjustable Konis ($1800) combined with the recovered cost of selling the red Konis that come with the kit ($800).

    I have 900 lb/in front springs and 425 lb/in rear springs. I expect the rear to need less spring but I had these on the shelf from another project so it's a good starting point. My suspension sheet suggests 350 for the rear. This is for a 3 link solid axle car.

    I did Brembo fixed 4 piston calipers all around that all use the same 13" Cobra rotors. Fronts are from a Cadillac STS and rear are from a 2015 V8 Camaro. Cheap on Rock Auto. I bought an adapter kit for the front and made my own bracket for the rear.

    I will be running full aero on the car. For a rear wing I'll be using the 70" aluminum wing from Wing Logic. Again, cost effective compared to the FFR solution. Another forum member, Dave, still hopefully chime in here. He took my lead and bought the same wing. He ran it at the end of last season and had good results.

  20. #20
    Junior Member Honeybadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_Rich View Post
    I can share plans but not much experience. I ordered a Coupe R at the end of 2021 and received the kit in September of 2022. I've been busting my butt to have it ready for this race season. Last month I did some high speed go karting and got a good feel for how all my custom off the grid solutions are working and so far I'm happy.

    I am running 315 squared on 10.5" rims. This is a cost effective solution since 10.5s are easy to find in the aftermarket Mustang world.

    I have custom valved double adjustable Bilstein shocks all around. I wanted a monotube shock with big rebound potential in the front so I worked with an engineer at Bilstein to make it happen. I have $3200 in four socks, but that's not much different than the upcharge for FFR double adjustable Konis ($1800) combined with the recovered cost of selling the red Konis that come with the kit ($800).

    I have 900 lb/in front springs and 425 lb/in rear springs. I expect the rear to need less spring but I had these on the shelf from another project so it's a good starting point. My suspension sheet suggests 350 for the rear. This is for a 3 link solid axle car.

    I did Brembo fixed 4 piston calipers all around that all use the same 13" Cobra rotors. Fronts are from a Cadillac STS and rear are from a 2015 V8 Camaro. Cheap on Rock Auto. I bought an adapter kit for the front and made my own bracket for the rear.

    I will be running full aero on the car. For a rear wing I'll be using the 70" aluminum wing from Wing Logic. Again, cost effective compared to the FFR solution. Another forum member, Dave, still hopefully chime in here. He took my lead and bought the same wing. He ran it at the end of last season and had good results.
    Thanks for the info. Interested in the wing solution! How're you mounting it? Custom mounts?

  21. #21
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    Here's two previous forum posts re: the wing on my Type 65:

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-with-new-wing

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...w-Wing-Testing

    I can answer specific questions but a few details about my car:

    FRPP 302 crate motor
    TKO600 (0.82 5th gear)
    Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888R (275 front, 315 rear, 18" wheels)
    Front anti-roll bar using stiffest hole (used a spacer), no rear bar
    QA1 single adjustable shocks, 700lb front, 500lb rear springs

    While I don't formally 'race' the car, I drag, autocross and HPDE it (also Nevada Open Road Challenge).

    Dave
    Gen 3 #17
    16,000+ miles
    Instagram: @davesdaytona

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  23. #22
    Junior Member Honeybadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Tabor View Post
    Here's two previous forum posts re: the wing on my Type 65:

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-with-new-wing

    https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...w-Wing-Testing

    I can answer specific questions but a few details about my car:

    FRPP 302 crate motor
    TKO600 (0.82 5th gear)
    Nitto NT01 or Toyo R888R (275 front, 315 rear, 18" wheels)
    Front anti-roll bar using stiffest hole (used a spacer), no rear bar
    QA1 single adjustable shocks, 700lb front, 500lb rear springs

    While I don't formally 'race' the car, I drag, autocross and HPDE it (also Nevada Open Road Challenge).

    Dave
    Gen 3 #17
    16,000+ miles
    Instagram: @davesdaytona
    Love it! Curious about the 302 - what RPM are you running it to? How's it been holding up? I have a spare HO 302 that I plan to put in mine

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeybadger View Post
    Love it! Curious about the 302 - what RPM are you running it to? How's it been holding up? I have a spare HO 302 that I plan to put in mine
    Rev-limiter is routinely set to 6250 but do 6500 at the drags and road course.

    Motor is a Ford Racing x302b (fully forged internals) with a mild B cam.

    Had a head gasket blow a few thousand miles and several track days and maybe 100 drag runs ago. Cooked it to the point of no-crank. Changed both head gaskets and head bolts and tried to forget about it.

    Dave
    Gen III #17

  25. #24
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    I will be mounting the same wing using FFR brackets. Basically plug and play, but you have to like the look.

  26. #25
    Junior Member Honeybadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_Rich View Post
    I will be mounting the same wing using FFR brackets. Basically plug and play, but you have to like the look.
    Makes sense. I didn't realize you could buy the brackets separately without the wing. Mind sharing how much?

  27. #26
    Junior Member Honeybadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Tabor View Post
    Rev-limiter is routinely set to 6250 but do 6500 at the drags and road course.

    Motor is a Ford Racing x302b (fully forged internals) with a mild B cam.

    Had a head gasket blow a few thousand miles and several track days and maybe 100 drag runs ago. Cooked it to the point of no-crank. Changed both head gaskets and head bolts and tried to forget about it.

    Dave
    Gen III #17
    Great to hear. Thanks!

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeybadger View Post
    Makes sense. I didn't realize you could buy the brackets separately without the wing. Mind sharing how much?
    PN 60627 is listed as $105 on FFR website on the configure your kit options. Road race spoiler mounting kit. It's a fairly crude kit. It's just CNC cut aluminum and a bag of bolts.

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