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Thread: Joseph's MKIV - Yet another Coyote build

  1. #1
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    Joseph's MKIV - Yet another Coyote build

    Today my front suspension parts arrived, so my build is finally beginning. I guess that means it is time to start a build thread.


    My Factory 5 story starts like so many others here. Growing up outside Detroit, the automotive industry was everywhere. My grandfathers worked for Ford and Michelin, my father GM. Our family was involved in CCM (Corvette Club of Michigan), Detroit Region SCCA, and MSCC (Michigan Sports Car Club.) Every year we took part in various events from each club, and larger events - Road rally, Autocross, everything. My father ran in the One Lap of Michigan, then the family ran course closing for the event after it became the MACA Grand Tour for Children. My father was also very active in SCCA Pro Rally, eventually becoming an event organizer for Sno*Drift and one year being called on to help with the X-Games rally. I have fond memories of family trips with the rally team to the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb, among other "smaller" events.

    It did not take long after I was able to drive that I started pursuing motorsports on my own, running "TSD" Road Rallies, autocrossing, and many HPDE/Track Days at Gingerman, Grattan, and Waterford Hills.

    Eventually, as it often does, life got in the way. Moved away, got married, etc. All my "car stuff" had to be set aside until a time it fit in my life again. One day in 2009 I was in a K-Mart and came across a hot wheels toy that I fell in love with. That toy is pictured above. I had to have it, in fact I had to have it in 1:1 scale. I turned to my wife at that moment and told her I wanted to build a Cobra and I wanted it to look like this car. She replied "Ok" and the dream was born.

    Once again life got in the way, but the dream did not die. I did some research and selected Factory 5 for my kit, got the DVD, got on the mailing list, etc. One day I was sitting in Charlotte airport and got an e-mail from Factory 5 announcing a sale. I do not remember their name for the sale, but the gist was that the next 5 base kits sold were going to be rolled back to their original $9,990 price. I did not consider myself ready to purchase, and let the wife know about the sale, commenting that it was too bad we couldn't get in on the deal. Her response was "Why not? call them and order your car." That I did, and on Feb 25 2017 the Stewart truck pulled up and dropped off my kit.

    At this point, my kit was as follows:
    MK4 Base kit
    Powdercoat frame
    PS Roll bar (wife required this)
    Standard seats

    This car will be primarily a driver, as we have roadster weather here in FL 50 weeks of the year (I drove a solstice for 5 years before my son was born and I needed something "more practical"). No doubt it will see a few autocrosses, and it will visit the dragon (I haven't owned a car in 17 years that hasn't at least once, and even a few trucks).
    My intent was to not use a donor vehicle and it still is. There are too many parts available from F5 and other vendors that are improvements over the Mustang parts, and I didn't want to build a "new" car with "old, worn out parts." I intended to purchase a complete kit, as it would likely save money in the long run, but the base kit that is in my garage is MUCH closer to fulfilling my dream than the complete kit i was unable to purchase for ~7 years.

    The general plan:
    Coyote
    TKO600
    4-link rear (is this possible, I have not noticed any coyote builds that do not use the IRS)
    Wilwood brakes (I have wilwoods on "the red car" and would not trade them for anything)
    color: similar to above, satin green w/ white or tan stripe. Exact details to be determined. I will probably lose the stars, and stray just far enough from olive drab to avoid the military theme.
    If I can get it done, I intend to copper plate everything that would otherwise be chrome. exhaust will be copper colored ceramic coated with plated heat shields. the biggest question in my mind will be the steering wheel and badges. It would be easy enough to skip the badges if I cannot get a set created in copper instead of chrome, but the wheel may require some creativity. IMO, one piece of chrome would ruin the copper "theme" and would mean considering keeping everything chrome instead.
    Aluminum panels will be powdercoated (black likely, to match the frame) and after final assembly of the interior, I am thinking lizardskin inside for heat/sound insulation.
    I intend to replace visible rivets with either black (on aluminum panels) or copper (elsewhere) following the lack of chrome.

    This will be a very slow build, as I obtain parts and build piece by piece. Additionally, I intend to do a full "mock-up" build before tearing everything back down for finishing. This is my "dream car" and I don't want to rush it to completion.

    Once the garage is clean of everything that has collected around the car, I can assemble my body buck and begin the aluminum removal and front suspension assembly this weekend. Then I suppose it will be time to select a FD and begin looking for a differential. My neighbor has a spare from his mustang so with a little luck that will be in good shape and have the right gears in it. It will likely need a limited slip of some sort as well, I suppose.





    I notice the date on my manual is September 2016 - have there been any major updates since?

  2. #2
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    The general plan:
    Coyote
    TKO600
    4-link rear (is this possible, I have not noticed any coyote builds that do not use the IRS)
    Belated congratulations on receiving your kit and starting a long time dream. Most of us relate to that. Now the fun begins! The Coyote doesn't care which rear suspension you use. Solid axle or IRS. Just be prepared for multiple recommendations to go 3-link vs. 4-link. The frame will accommodate either. For your intended use including autocross, 3-link would be the much better choice.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  3. #3
    Senior Member wareaglescott's Avatar
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    Congrats! Look forward to following your build.
    I had some custom badges made at https://www.billetbadges.com Not cheap but extremely nice quality. They may be able to help you with your badges.
    I love the traditional Cobra look but also like ones that are somewhat unique. Mine is somewhat nonstandard. I love the offset stripe on your model. Are you considering an offset stripe like that? I think that would be really cool and unique.
    As far as the wheel the leather wheel has less chrome. Wonder if you could get one of those and do some sort of wrap that could give you the look you desire?
    MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
    Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
    PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides

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    Thank you, EdwardB
    I wasn't sure if there might be issues with the driveshaft and binding as the axle articulated. I saw a thread somewhere that someone had a coyote build and had a VERY short driveshaft, but i believe they had the stock 6-speed which i presume is longer than the 5-speeds.
    It's less that I plan to autocross than that I realize my wife or I will probably run one eventually. I see F5 part #13181 - Do they make a weld-in version of the retrofit kit, or is there an alternate?

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    I appreciate that, Scott.

    Stripe color/design is not set in stone as of yet. The model has one wider white stripe with two thin yellow pinstripes on either side of it. I was always told that when stripes were offset, they were to be on the driver's side so that corner workers could assist the driver in the event of a crash. That would make the stripes on the model incorrect but I agree they sure do look sharp that way.

    Regarding the wheel, I prefer the look of the wood wheel to the leather one overall. Dupli-color has a "copper plate" paint https://duplicolor.com/product/copper-plate-coating - google image search shows some much more convincing results than the image on the box, so that could be a possibility for the center of the wheel. Badges, I could skip the hood and trunk badges (may anyways) and do something custom for the wheel center. I saw your badges in your build thread and thought they may be a possibility. I would think that since these parts are already custom-made for F5 it shouldn't be too difficult to have some pulled off the line for plating, I will inquire with F5 whenever I reach that point - that is a long way off at this time.

    A friend of mine from off-reading says he has great plating and powdercoat shops, so anything that needs to be finished locally should be easy, at least.

  6. #6
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    Thank you, EdwardB
    I wasn't sure if there might be issues with the driveshaft and binding as the axle articulated. I saw a thread somewhere that someone had a coyote build and had a VERY short driveshaft, but i believe they had the stock 6-speed which i presume is longer than the 5-speeds.
    It's less that I plan to autocross than that I realize my wife or I will probably run one eventually. I see F5 part #13181 - Do they make a weld-in version of the retrofit kit, or is there an alternate?
    I agree with Paul (edwardb's real name) that the 4 link is useable but not optimal from a performance standpoint due to the inherent binding of the triangular upper and lower arms which can result in some unpredictable handling as it nears the limit. The live axle Mk4 chassis is built to accomodate either 4 or 3 link; the 3 link panhard bar mount is bolt in and no welding is required (some of what you may be seeing in the retrofit description relates to pre-Mk4 versions which DO require welding). Did you purchase rear coilovers and lower control arms for the 4 link? If not you'll need those as well. See that, less than 3 hours after your initial post and we're already spending your money---we're good at that!

    Good luck with your build and keep us updated!

    Jeff

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    Purchasing rear coilovers and links is still a "to-do" item so it is not too late to change, and what's an extra couple hundred bucks, right?

    I technically don't have an axle either, but my next-door neighbor has a spare from an old mustang he bought for the motor out of, but I don't think I can justify the expense of the IRS for maybe one or two events a year.

    My question regarding weld-in was for the third link mount on the axle - The bolt-on saddle is not confidence inspiring and welding is not a problem for me.

  8. #8
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    Thank you, EdwardB
    I wasn't sure if there might be issues with the driveshaft and binding as the axle articulated. I saw a thread somewhere that someone had a coyote build and had a VERY short driveshaft, but i believe they had the stock 6-speed which i presume is longer than the 5-speeds.
    It's less that I plan to autocross than that I realize my wife or I will probably run one eventually. I see F5 part #13181 - Do they make a weld-in version of the retrofit kit, or is there an alternate?
    Right. The longer T-56 6-speed that some use results in a short driveshaft and not recommended for a solid axle. But the TKO600 you list will work fine with a Coyote and a solid axle. As Jeff clarified, the 3-link is a bolt-in for your chassis. That wasn't the case with earlier Mk's, but was one of the changes made with the Mk4.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    I technically don't have an axle either, but my next-door neighbor has a spare from an old mustang he bought for the motor out of, but I don't think I can justify the expense of the IRS for maybe one or two events a year.
    IRS is more than a performance upgrade. It just plain rides better. I've had both and the difference is pretty significant. But it does add cost. How much depends on a lot of things. But understand it doesn't fit into some build plan/budgets.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-15-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Congrats! Welcome to the fun. I like your copper idea. It's something different.
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
    Serial #9158
    Design Engineer at BluePrint Engines

  10. #10
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post

    My question regarding weld-in was for the third link mount on the axle - The bolt-on saddle is not confidence inspiring and welding is not a problem for me.
    Yes, welding the banana bracket is prudent.

    Jeff

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    Time for question #1...

    As they were screwed in place at the factory, my F panels do not appear to be well aligned... is this by design or should I adjust that when I drill them for rivets?

    The top of both of them are well aligned, but the front/bottom edge hits the middle of this tube. There is room around the shock mount to move them forward, and the pictures in the manual show them aligned with the edge of the tube

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    Question #2

    When the time comes, where should the harness holes line up in relation to the cross bar there? on the DS thye line up even, on the PS they line up a little ****-eyed. I can move the panels around to make them both even obviously, but it raises the question of how they SHOULD be



    and a shot of my helper practicing for when he's old enough to drive it (along with how tight my working space is - no basements here in FL so I share the garage between all my hobbies and our primary storage space):

  13. #13
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Mine were the same way, but it's not an issue

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    Question #2

    When the time comes, where should the harness holes line up in relation to the cross bar there? on the DS thye line up even, on the PS they line up a little ****-eyed. I can move the panels around to make them both even obviously, but it raises the question of how they SHOULD be



    and a shot of my helper practicing for when he's old enough to drive it (along with how tight my working space is - no basements here in FL so I share the garage between all my hobbies and our primary storage space):
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Build-Thread

  14. #14
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Aluminum panels attached for shipment may not be in the exact right location. The overlaps are typically correct (e.g. what's on top of what) but the final locations may need to be adjusted. Like the F panels you mention. Put them where they're supposed to be.

    For those harness openings, that's on purpose. That way the harness straps ride on the smooth tube vs. the sharp edge of the aluminum back wall.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Dave Howard's Avatar
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    Once you've completed the car, you'll realize the panel fitment isn't that critical. All the interiors tuff is carpeted over. Prior to taking the body off from shipping, it is recommended to run a Sharpie along and use the body to scribe the clearance between the underside of the body and the aluminum pieces that will seal against it (Firewall, trunk sides and cockpit back). Also, in the picture with your helper, the drivers side front footbox aluminum looks like the part for a doner pedal installation. There another piece in the box of aluminum for the Wilwood set up.

    The build is such great fun. Enjoy the experience
    Last edited by Dave Howard; 01-15-2018 at 09:28 PM.

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    That was what I suspected.

    Spent the evening in the garage. I have accomplished nearly everything I can with the parts I have. One thing I can see already - I will need more blades for my deburring tool, there have been nasty burrs on every part I've touched so far.

    First up was the lower control arms, they went in with little trouble. I did have to file the powdercoating out of the holes on the frame, but this was expected from reading other builds. Then the uppers, aside from having a few spots that were too tight to get a tool in, and shaving the rear washers on the inside, also went in with little trouble.



    I apparently got lucky with my upper ball joints. I was prepared to fight them after reading a number of reports of them needing to be cleaned up to thread in but both of mine threaded in all the way by hand, I just snugged them up in the vise. Coilover assembly was likewise, everything slipped together like it was supposed to. Installation of the shocks is where it all started to fall apart. The misalignment spacers were all too wide to fit and had nasty burs on the outside and inside that caught on the edges of the heim joint and the holes in the brackets. I had to grind them all a little smaller and chamfer the inner and outer edges slightly, they were still a bear to get in place. The top mounts went in slightly easier than the bottom, only requiring chamfers but no additional grinding. The F5 spindles went in just as expected, but I was surprised to have to use the spacer provided with the LCAs - I figured with two F5 designed parts that would not be needed. No matter, Installed the spacer and all is well there.


    I did encounter some "work stoppage" problems. The first is pretty minor but I figured I would see what y'all had to say about it before doing anything.

    The spindles were supplied with these bolt-on steering arms:


    Not only do they seem WAY too close to the caliper mount, but they interfere with ribbing on the back of the spindle before they are properly tightened. The passenger side is worse than the drivers




    My assembly manual has nothing regarding the F5 spindles, so I am figuring this out on my own. The spindles are labeled PSS and DSS, so I am pretty sure they are on the right sides at least.

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    The second problem, and thsi is one I cannot so easily solve, is the sleeves for the steering rack bushings are just too big. the ID of the steering rack bushings are .66", and the OD of the spacers are .75"



    I do not have a lathe to turn down these spacers so the steering rack installation will have to wait. It is possible the bushings are the problem, since my kit was delivered first quarter last year and the rack came from a newer kit.

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    Dave - thank you, that is actually welded to the frame. The aluminum had already been removed, but I am aware a replacement will come with the wilwood pedals when I order them.

    I did not take the time to mark the pieces, except with their numbers from the diagram in the build manual, because I knew they would all need to move around somewhat to fit right anyway.

    My next batch of parts is on hold due to my truck needing a new transmission, so I will have plenty of time to fit and drill panels while I wait.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    My assembly manual has nothing regarding the F5 spindles, so I am figuring this out on my own. The spindles are labeled PSS and DSS, so I am pretty sure they are on the right sides at least.
    If I remember correctly they are actually reversed. I believe the reason is that it's the same spindles for the hot rod and they are labeled for them. Double check the manual (or someone else will confirm)
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Build-Thread

  20. #20
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Comments based on the build progress you reported:

    It's not unusual to remove powder coat from holes as you mentioned. But it's also not unusual to have to "adjust" the width of the suspension tabs to get the parts to fit. Like the shock mounts you mentioned. That metal does move with welding. Rather than shortening the spacers, bend the tabs out. It typically doesn't take much. If you have a big adjustable wrench, that can be used and not damage the powder coat. Another method a lot of us use is take piece of threaded rod with nuts and washers. Thread it into the holes and use nuts and washers on the inside to spread the tabs. Easy fix. But yea remove any burrs or whatever on the spacers. Agreed sometimes they're a little rough. I just touch them on my disk sander and they're good.

    That big washer on the front LCA is the difference between the FF LCA's and donor LCA's. The donor parts need the extra space so don't use the washers. It's mentioned in the manual.

    You have the spindles and steering arms on the wrong sides. The brake caliper mounts should be toward the rear. The steering arms should point out not in. The marking on the steering arms is for rear steer used on the 33. Since the Roadster is front steer, the marking is backwards. This also is mentioned in the manual. Just re-read you post and you mentioned not have any instructions for the spindles in you manual. Obviously a basic kit manual. Here's a picture FWIW:



    For those steering rack bushings, what you have there are the stock bushings. That's the rack you bought from me (right?) and I mentioned that I didn't include the Factory Five poly bushings because I needed them, but did include the stock bushings. You may be able to use them, but not with the sleeve since the stock bushings already have sleeves. The other choice is to get the poly bushings from Factory Five or the solid bushings from Breeze.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-15-2018 at 09:46 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  21. #21
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    You don't just have the steering arms wrong, you have the spindles on the wrong sides of the car. The one you have pictured here is for the driver's side:



    Once you get the spindles on the proper sides the steering arms will be installed so that they point forward and angle outward with the wide taper of the tie rod end hole pointing down. Pay no attention to the DS and PS markings; those are only relevent when they are used on the Hot Rod.

    Jeff

  22. #22
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kleiner View Post
    You don't just have the steering arms wrong, you have the spindles on the wrong sides of the car. Jeff
    Yea, I noticed that when I looked again and realized something else wasn't right. I updated my post and added a picture.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  23. #23
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    Yes Paul, it is the rack from you and you did mention that. The stock bushings are far too loose on the bolts, I ordered a set from Breeze. (look ma, my first mod! It's all down hill from here)
    On the subject of the rack, will I still need to install the extenders? I suppose I could just pull back a boot and see if there are already some in there. Or I could check the manual...

    Jdav, I was wondering if that was the case but "they were marked for DS and PS" - easy fix. I will swap the arms with them, I do see they have a slight chamfer so that will likely solve the interference as well.

    I would double check the manual, but the base kit manual ONLY has directions for the donor spindles.

  24. #24
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    Yes Paul, it is the rack from you and you did mention that. The stock bushings are far too loose on the bolts, I ordered a set from Breeze. (look ma, my first mod! It's all down hill from here)
    On the subject of the rack, will I still need to install the extenders? I suppose I could just pull back a boot and see if there are already some in there. Or I could check the manual...

    Jdav, I was wondering if that was the case but "they were marked for DS and PS" - easy fix. I will swap the arms with them, I do see they have a slight chamfer so that will likely solve the interference as well.

    I would double check the manual, but the base kit manual ONLY has directions for the donor spindles.
    The Factory Five manual rack already has the proper spacing. So no extenders required. Should be good to go as is.

    Hopefully you saw the comments that your spindles are on the wrong sides. Not just the arms.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

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    This was something I had noticed mentioned somewhere, but in your image the grease fittings on the upper arm are pointed upwards, mine are pointed downwards. I remember someone mentioning swapping the sides to flip them, but it seems I would have to take the whole arm apart to swap the pieces with the fittings to do that. Is there a big different in accessibility up or down? Is that area (above the arms) enclosed by the body once assembly is complete?

    Yes, next time I am in the garage I will swap arms and spindles. Will probably be a few days, my helper was not very happy that I did not go play soccer with him once he tired of using the frame as a jungle gym.

  26. #26
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    This was something I had noticed mentioned somewhere, but in your image the grease fittings on the upper arm are pointed upwards, mine are pointed downwards. I remember someone mentioning swapping the sides to flip them, but it seems I would have to take the whole arm apart to swap the pieces with the fittings to do that. Is there a big different in accessibility up or down? Is that area (above the arms) enclosed by the body once assembly is complete?
    Oops. your UCA's are upside down as well. The zerks should point up. It's not just access to the fittings, but the pivot needs to be from the top not the bottom. Yes, it's necessary to take the UCA's apart and flip things over so the the inner pivots are on the top and the ball joint points out. These come from a supplier and unfortunately need to be installed differently than they come out of the box. You're in good company. Many before you have done the same thing.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Dagwoods's Avatar
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    Hey Joe, since the UCAs are coming off anyway, a few folks have pointed out before that you may want to have the mounting bolts inserted from top (nut on bottom), as an added safety measure.

  28. #28
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    Step 1: undo most of what I did earlier in the week. Remove spindles, steering arms, UCAs. Press out steering rack bushings.

    Step 2: Re assemble correctly


    The UCA thing really bothers me - The missing instructions for the spindles are due to actions I took, but I find delivering a part that is assembled incorrectly with no instructions regarding fixing the issue rubs me the wrong way. In any case it is behind me. I believe most of the rest of the build is more "design and build" than "bolt together these parts" and that should be much easier for me personally.

    My breeze automotive steering rack bushings are set to arrive Monday, and I have a pack of 1/8" drill bits arriving today, so I can keep moving forward. The trans rebuild in my truck should also be done Monday, so that should be the last unrelated drain on my "cobra funds" and I can start collecting rear suspension and brake parts. Is there a trusted source for 5-lug axle shafts, or should I ask around the local mustang community?

    I checked my identification plate today for reference, and I am #9046 I am updating my working list of what needs to be coated or plated. I had focused on things that were visible from the outside, but had not realized how many "shiny bits" there were under the hood until I started reading build threads and looking at all your pictures. I also realized how badly I need to clean my garage, it's impossible to get a decent picture with out a ton of crap in the background.
    Last edited by JoeAIII; 01-18-2018 at 11:38 AM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Jdav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    The UCA thing really bothers me - The missing instructions for the spindles are due to actions I took, but I find delivering a part that is assembled incorrectly with no instructions regarding fixing the issue rubs me the wrong way. In any case it is behind me. I believe most of the rest of the build is more "design and build" than "bolt together these parts" and that should be much easier for me personally.
    There will be several things like this in the build. Remember that a lot of these parts are not specifically made for this car or are made for multiple cars, so not everything is plug and play. Yes, the instructions could be improved, but use this community as a sounding board and you'll get the right answers.
    p.s. I made the same mistake with the UCA too
    MK4 #9028 - Coyote - TKO600
    Delivery: 1/30/17 First Start: 7/23/17 Legal: 10/5/17 Graduated: 10/15/18
    Build thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Build-Thread

  30. #30
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    The UCA thing really bothers me - The missing instructions for the spindles are due to actions I took, but I find delivering a part that is assembled incorrectly with no instructions regarding fixing the issue rubs me the wrong way. In any case it is behind me. I believe most of the rest of the build is more "design and build" than "bolt together these parts" and that should be much easier for me personally.
    True enough. The instruction manual doesn't specifically say to disassemble and reassemble. But to be fair, hopefully you would agree there are multiple pictures of the UCA in the proper orientation. With the pivots and zerk fittings on the top vs. the bottom. The manual does make a point of saying the ball joint plate needs to be oriented so the ball joint points out, but lots of people miss that one too. Some do approach these builds as multiple "insert tab A into slot B" steps and eventually you'll have a finished car. Probably Factory Five is a little guilty of marketing them that way. But there is a little more to it. Especially given the huge variation of parts that can be used to put one together, and not every possibility is described. It doesn't have to be hard or overly complicated (and I'm not trying to make it sound harder than it is) but there has to be some thought and understanding the whole way. I've read posts where builds were even stopped because they couldn't deal with that level of uncertainty. Hang in there. As Joel said, you're just getting starting and there will lots more moments like this. If I haven't assembled something and taken it back apart multiple times, I just don't feel like I've done my job.

    BTW, the most recent picture you posted isn't showing.
    Last edited by edwardb; 01-18-2018 at 11:30 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  31. #31
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    Fixed the image.. apparently I linked to it in a non-shared gallery. Typically I open a post in incognito to check, but I failed this time.

    All the pictures in the Base kit manual that show the UCA don't match what was shipped at all - those "car side" brackets are straight, nto bent, and the grease fitting is parallel to the ground, not up or down. I did find a picture of the UCA alone, where it describes adjusting them, that does match and does show it assembled correctly. No matter - it is fixed, and hopefully the next person to come along will read this ahead of time and know to swap them ahead of time. Thank you all for assisting with this.

    I have extensive automotive experience (I have literally replaced every part on the subaru above, many more than once) and when I read the manual, there wasn't anything that stood out as being difficult. I understand how all the parts work and can identify when something seems wrong (the spindles looked like they were on the wrong side, and turns out they were, in spite of the labels to the contrary.) I will move forward understanding that there may be omissions in the manual and to cast a more critical eye if something seems even slightly "off." I expected at some point to need to set the manual aside and figure thing out "on the fly" - maybe I'll just do that now and save myself the head scratching

    Regarding assembling something and taking it back off, Long ago I worked for a handyman company and we joked that when we were done we knew things were done right, because they'd been done twice.

  32. #32
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeAIII View Post
    I expected at some point to need to set the manual aside and figure thing out "on the fly" - maybe I'll just do that now and save myself the head scratching
    No, I wouldn't do that. It's a great source of information. But you've got two things happening IMO. (1) You have a base kit manual which is put together for a donor build. But you're using non-donor components, like the spindles. You may want to spend $10 and download the complete kit manual. It might fill in some gaps for you. (2) Factory Five changes parts more often than updating the manual. Not meant to be critical or an excuse, it's just the way it is. The UCA's they have now, for example, have been changed multiple times. No surprise, unfortunately, that the pictures don't match your parts. Like I said before. Hang in there. With your experience you shouldn't have any trouble figuring things out.

    Picture is showing now BTW. Looks good.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
    Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.

  33. #33
    Senior Member mlewis's Avatar
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    I'm building a base kit w/ all new parts. The base kit manual is bias toward a donor build with lots of gaps.

    I got my hands on a complete kit manual which has proven to be very helpful in answering the questions you have. I downloaded it onto an older iPad that I have and keep it handy in my garage (also can zoom in on the pictures and text so I can see w/out my cheaters )
    Mk4 #9165, Base Kit with lots of options, Delivery on 08/17/2017, Coyote, TKO600, 2015 IRS, 18" Halibrands, 12.99" Wilwoods

  34. #34
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    Update. My Breeze Automotive steering rack bushings arrived, so I put the rack in. I don't know if it was my rack or the frame, but the bolts ended up about 10 degrees away from lining up. With rubber or urethane bushings this likely would have been nothing, but with the solid breeze bushings, it required drilling out the passenger side holes a little larger to be able to bolt everything down. One other thing I observed, the holes on the driver's side are slotted to allow some adjustment, but in my installation, the bolt was at the far right of one slot, and the far left of the other. Strange.

    Since I did not have anything else to work on, I started test fitting and drilling the aluminum panels. My deburring and countersink tools are getting a workout. Here are some details of what I am doing, in case it is of value to anyone in the future. First, to protect my hands while working on these parts, I hit every edge with the deburring tool. I then clamped the panel in place, traced where it contacted the frame or panel it was attached to, and pulled it off the car to mark and drill. Now stop and think about if the placement of rivets is important to you, many of them are very visible, and think about how you want them spaced. In my instance, I looked at where two lines of rivets met, and wanted to make sure the spacing was maintained and there weren't two rivets very close to each other at those points. My solution? Place a rivet where the two lines would intersect. As you can see, some of these were CLOSE to the old holes, but not quite in the same spot. in fact some of the holes wound up siamese - I made sure to mark which hole I intended to use in those instances.

    I drilled that corner hole and installed the guide with a cleco to allow marking the two lines from there. Keep in mind, some panels will have this on both ends, in those instances, I determined where the "corner" rivets needed to go, and centered the guide in between them for the rest of the run. In most instances, they wound up less than 1/4" off so the inconsistent spacing is not too noticable. Also note where you may or may not be able to install a rivet - on my PS I have a hole that is behind the UCA mount - I didn't bother to drill that hole on the DS.

    Once all the holes are marked to your liking, drill the panel, then clamp it back in place, drill the end hole or holes, and cleco in place to drill the rest. On the firewall, where the manual showed a double row of rivets, I made sure to offset the two rows by 1.5", so each rivet is halfway between the two on the other line. the tow on the ends will be tough to get a rivet gun on. I used two different colors of sharpies, one for layout (black) then another for marking the holes once I was sure where they should go (red)




  35. #35
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    Once all holes were drilled, all holes were countersunk to remove any burrs from drilling. I hate sharp pieces of metal when I am tryign to work, and they can cause blemishes when powdercoating




    I have once again run out of parts (and clecos - I knew i did not have enough, but did not think I would run out quite so quickly) so took a break to ride crazy carts with my helper and teach him to ride a bike (he came home Monday and decided it was time to remove his training wheels, who was I to argue?) I will be traveling for a while, so I will have some time to collect more before my next update.

  36. #36
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    Not sure, but, in the picture with balljoint, looks like there may be a crack in the spindle casting? Depends on how much torque you put on the bolt, just a thought/concern. In picture #16.

    Jim

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
    Not sure, but, in the picture with balljoint, looks like there may be a crack in the spindle casting? Depends on how much torque you put on the bolt, just a thought/concern. In picture #16.

    Jim
    This one?


    After I saw your pm I went out and inspected both hubs. It appears the crack in the picture was a cat hair. Thank you for looking out.
    Last edited by JoeAIII; 02-03-2018 at 08:32 PM.

  38. #38
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    Oh cool, good to hear, our family has welding shop, and just looked like crack, and would feel awefull if something happened. Good job.

  39. #39
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    Here's a bit of a question for those who have come before me - I have a $20 of $50 coupon at advance expiring soon, can you make any recommendations on what I should pick up with it? I believe people have mentioned being able to pick up a standard upper radiator hose but I cannot locate year/model or part numbers at this time.

    Another idea was a battery, but it seems awful early for that, I'd hate to have it sit around for a year or more wasting away.

  40. #40
    Straversi's Avatar
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    Motor oil, antifreeze, etc. Wont go bad and easy to store.
    Mk IV #8901 - Complete kit, Coyote, TKO-600, IRS. Ordered 5/23/16, Delivered 7/14/16, First Start 8/13/17, First Go-Kart 10/22/17, Registered and Completed 10/18/18. Build Thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...V-Coyote-Build Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-Roadster-8901

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