Custom Body - Methods and Means - Software, Programs and Techniques

[kach22i]

Ask, and Ye Shall Receive............

My wife alerted me to an "open house" next Monday for a new business in town. I do not know if other cities have something like this, but now that you know they exist - keep an eye out for them.

Makers, Hobbyists and Entrepreneurs
http://maker-works.com/

Maker Works is a 10,000 sq. ft. member-based studio located in Ann Arbor, MI. It features 4 areas of making: METAL, CIRCUITS, WOOD and CRAFT. It also provides hundreds of hand tools, open work stations, a retail store and more.

TOOL HIGHLIGHTS: 4 AREAS
METAL - Tormach CNC Mill, Bridgeport Mill, Clausing Colchester Engine Lathe, 18" band saw and more


WOOD - 48"x96" Shopbottm CNC router; Saw Stop table saw; circular saw; 8" jointer, scroll saw; band saw; drill press; 20" Planer


CIRCUITS- Oscilloscopes; power supplies; function generators; soldering stations; sheet metal shear; sheet metal brake; computer work stations with AutoCAD tm, Solidworks tm and Corel tm; still and video cameras; LEGO Mindstormstm, Robotis BioLoidtm and VEXtm robotics kits


CRAFT - Epilogtm 50W laser cutter; Amaya Bravo 16-thread CNC Embroidery Machine; Roland 24" Vinyl Cutter; Bernina Activa 230 Sewing Machine; MakerBot 3-D Printer


Facilities - Conference room with projector; project storage; project parts and material store; recycled parts and materials; large workbenches; hundreds of hand tools

I purchased a router with special adapter plates and cutting bits over the winter for a special project, cost was more than one day at Maker-Works. I'm sure it will sit around collecting dust until next time I need it. Speaking of dust that project ended up putting sawdust over everything in my basement from grinding and belt sanding. It would have been nice to make that mess in somebody else's place.

Individual: $35/day, $90/month, $900/year Family: $90/month for first person + $45 each additional person (15 years and younger are free) Small Business: $80/month per person, $800/year per person

I'm just thinking that this type of business can help get a custom car body started.

What do you think?

I'll report back after the Open House visit.

[acmonster]

@Kach22i Definitely report back. I live in the area, and am very interested in this. Not just for custom car stuff, but many other projects. Sounds awesome.

[Oppenheimer]

I heard a show on NPR the other day about 'collaborative consumption'. The basic idea is there are things we buy that we only use occasionally, expensive, big things. A group of people could buy one, and share. An example given was a snow blower. Neighbors all chip in, a fund for gas and maintenance, decide whose house it lives at, etc. I didn't think this was such a great example since, although its not needed often, when it is needed, everyone in the collaboration all need it at the same time.

The example I was thinking of while listening was some special tool needed for a specific repair for a specific car. Guys on a forum all chip in, ship to whoever needs it when that repair is needed.

Anyway, it strikes me that this Maker Works place is a form of enterprise based collaborative consumption. I like it. My garage isn't very big, and wife doesn't like the mess and odor associated with DIY repairs and such. So I've been thinking of finding a bunch of local guys with similar needs, and finding a warehouse type space we could rent collaboratively. We could stock with tools like compressor, shop press, bench grinder, drill press, etc. You'd bring your own hand tools (too easy to lose track of those and blame associated with who took them).

It occured to me this could even be a business, setup similar to Maker Works (which I hadn't heard of before, hoping they come this way).

[D2W]

Anyway, it strikes me that this Maker Works place is a form of enterprise based collaborative consumption. I like it. My garage isn't very big, and wife doesn't like the mess and odor associated with DIY repairs and such. So I've been thinking of finding a bunch of local guys with similar needs, and finding a warehouse type space we could rent collaboratively. We could stock with tools like compressor, shop press, bench grinder, drill press, etc. You'd bring your own hand tools (too easy to lose track of those and blame associated with who took them).

It occured to me this could even be a business, setup similar to Maker Works (which I hadn't heard of before, hoping they come this way).

I've been thinking about a business like this for a while now. Rent or buy a wharehouse and stock it with all the big purchase items: welders, drill press, air compressor, ect. Keep those items in a locked area with a key code access so you know who's been using it when stuff shows up missing. Rent "workspace" area for guys who don't have space of their own or wives who don't want them taking up the whole garage. Each workspace could be fenced off from the others so you know nobody is taking your things. You pay by the amount of space you want.

[olpro]

This it a great business model and I hope it spreads. I have occasionally thought of enrolling in a night college class for the same reason - access to equipment and tools. I presume that they will train people before turning them loose on the equipment. Otherwise, it will go down hill fast (blood causes surface rust on machines).

[thebeerbaron]

one of the few perks of my short tenure as a gubmint employee was access to the base's "Auto Skills Center". After a 5 minute video and a 30 second lecture delivered deadpan from memory by a completely bored employee, you were given access to the shop: lift bays of all sorts, Snap-On hand tools, compressed air, and pretty much every specialized tool imaginable. They took your ID and wrote you a receipt for every tool you took out (the basic hand tools came on a rolling plywood trolley with hooks and outlines so you could quickly see when a socket or wrench was missing). There were experienced mechanics there to point out the obvious if you got stuck and tell you when you were being unsafe. They took all fluids for safe disposal. I swapped the shocks on my Miata there one day. A lift, plenty of good lighting, air tools, and a bench-mounted spring compressor made the job not quite blissful, but a lot better than rolling around in gravel and working with "death sticks".

Unfortunately, I suspect a military base is one of the few places you can pull this off. The liability concerns alone must be astronomical. The first time I used a torque stick to tighten down my lug nuts, I did it wrong and lost 2 out of 4 on two wheels. If I were a bigger, more litigious idiot, I could have lost two wheels, smashed into a school bus full of orphans, and run to an ambulance chasing lawyer. My suspicion is that that lawyer would have a much easier time extracting money from a corporate entity providing this service than the feds. Also, I think people using the center were better behaved than most. Sure, there were plenty of idiots and jerks, but this was a revokable privilege and I suspect at least for the younger guys that the staff could make one phone call and put them in hot water. But maybe I'm imagining things.

Now that I think about it some more, I think that Click and Clack (of NPR fame) used to run a garage on this principle. Then they found themselves "helping out" their clients so much that they just gave up and did all the work themselves.

It's an interesting idea (D2W's and Maker Works), but one that depends entirely too much (IMHO) on the good behavior of the participants. How do you foster that sort of behavior and keep it going year after year? Answer that and you may have a winner (if you can solve the legal issues).

[kach22i]

A good article with photos on the means and methods Lamborghini uses to put cars and concepts together.


Peek Inside the Lamborghini Factory
by Basem Wasef
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/08...4&viewall=true

Three-dimensional renderings were altered for different colors and lighting environments, and scale models "printed" from those files using a device that uses lasers to cut plastic. Computational fluid-dynamic calculations were enacted to finesse aerodynamics and engine cooling, and the whole car was essentially assembled on a virtual level before it took physical form..

[Oppenheimer]

Spot on about the liability issues. Which is why I was originally thinking more along the lines of collaborative consumption of a bunch of local guys supporting the endeavor, and its not a business, just a place to work on your own car.

But thinking about it, maybe that is how you get past the liability stuff, you make it a 'club' that you have to join, and you 'own' a share of all the equipment. Club memberships can be for a year, a week, even a day. But then if its a club I'm not sure it can be a $ making business. But if it gives the 'founding' members a self sustaining place to work on their cars, it could be worth it.

I was also thinking a place like AutoZone would find this appealing, especially in an urban areas where there might be more people that wanted to work on their own cars (and would buy parts from them), but don't have a space to. Of course, if they give any sort of material support to it, they have a liability that their corporate lawyers would probably never allow.

One thing that could be borrowed from these sorts of parts supermarkets is their 'tool rental' program. You 'buy' the tool from the DIY garage, then return it. You lose it, you break it, you own it.

Lets 'collaborate', come up with ways around the liability issues (if possible), and start a company together. We can open a chain of these places.

[riptide motorsport]

Nice memories.

[bromikl]

But thinking about it, maybe that is how you get past the liability stuff, you make it a 'club' that you have to join, and you 'own' a share of all the equipment. Club memberships can be for a year, a week, even a day. But then if its a club I'm not sure it can be a $ making business. But if it gives the 'founding' members a self sustaining place to work on their cars, it could be worth it.
...Lets 'collaborate', come up with ways around the liability issues (if possible), and start a company together. We can open a chain of these places.

We have one in Milwaukee. It's been a collection of 10-20 tinkerers for decades, and they spent years finding and (recently) opening an actual location. I intend to assemble my 818 there.

http://milwaukeemakerspace.org/faq

[bobzdar]

The easiest/cheapest way I've seen to go from CAD model to mold is to take the CAD model, break it up into 2" thick slices length wise, then have them all plotted life sized. Then, take 2" thick foam sheets and cut the foam out to the pattern on each plotted paper and put them all together. Then you have a rough surface to start with and you can sand the foam, coat it with filler, sand and then prime and get it to a nice smooth finish. This becomes the body buck for your mold, so you lay it up with fiberglass in sections that make sense and they are your molds. The nice thing about this is you then have the molds to make spares or multiple copies. If this doesn't make sense, I can try to find where I saw this done, but it was either on the locost forums or dsrforums. There's no way around it being a lot of work, but this is the best way to get it from CAD to a real surface without paying multiple grand to have a foam buck made.

[olpro]

Maybe the cheapest but the easiest? I doubt it, most people would not be able to make a decent plug by means of this extremely high skill, high effort method.

[bobzdar]

It doesn't require any extraordinary skill, just a lot of time and effort. The part that requires the skill is designing the body. The only replacement for time and effort on something like this is dollars, I would love to see rapid prototyping on a 1/1 scale for cheap, but I don't think it's doable. I'm looking at building a DSR and if there was some easy and cheap way to go about building a full car body, I haven't seen it. They've come up with cheap ways, but not easy. It takes a lot of effort, no way around that unless you feel like ponying up 50k or so.

This is the quickest way I've seen for the home builder to go from CAD model to body molds. It's a lot quicker (and at least as accurate) as trying to do a clay model or carving it out of a solid foam block or using some combination of wood and filler to mock it up.

[olpro]

Clay done correctly can be very accurate, to less than a mm. Of course one needs a good modeling setup, a temp controlled environment and the right tools. Decent industrial clay is also rather expensive and the model will be heavy even with a proper metal, wood and foam armature.

[thebeerbaron]

I have not the energy to wade through all the posts, but the folks over at Palatov Motorsports went from computer to foam buck on one of their projects, IIRC. I do not expect it was cheap, but this started out as one guy with some experience and desire to learn. Now it's something much bigger.

[flyboy2160]

the method described by bobzdar was pioneered by burt rutan back in the 80s for his aircraft kits. it doesn't require very much skill, but it is very, very messy and very time consuming. and it's not for those who don't like getting itchy stuff all over them.

[RonSchofield]

The easiest/cheapest way I've seen to go from CAD model to mold is to take the CAD model, break it up into 2" thick slices length wise, then have them all plotted life sized. Then, take 2" thick foam sheets and cut the foam out to the pattern on each plotted paper and put them all together. Then you have a rough surface to start with and you can sand the foam, coat it with filler, sand and then prime and get it to a nice smooth finish. This becomes the body buck for your mold, so you lay it up with fiberglass in sections that make sense and they are your molds. The nice thing about this is you then have the molds to make spares or multiple copies. If this doesn't make sense, I can try to find where I saw this done, but it was either on the locost forums or dsrforums. There's no way around it being a lot of work, but this is the best way to get it from CAD to a real surface without paying multiple grand to have a foam buck made.

This is how I make my half hulls from hull lines. I just make the individual layers and glue them together and shape them until they are proper.

[kach22i]

I did something similar to make my hovercraft tail cone.

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...t-11973-2.html
CONE-1-1.jpg

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...t-11973-3.html
DUCT-1.jpg

I had problems fitting fine enough fiberglass cloth at the tip of the cone. Complex shapes take special knowledge, experience, materials, and tools.

Keeping a lot of foam in the construction may help with impacts/crashes.

[kach22i]

I make clay covered cars by shaping blocks of blue foam as well.

Messy, messy, messy.

Microballoons in epoxy can form a paste which is fairly lightweight, strong and shapes easily. I would consider using this over making molds for a "one-off".

[kach22i]

@Kach22i Definitely report back. I live in the area, and am very interested in this. Not just for custom car stuff, but many other projects. Sounds awesome.

The report:
The owner Tom is a cool guy, 40-ish and not giving up his day job in the catering business just yet.

The shop is not yet fully outfitted, but still has lots of great tools and work stations.

Insurance policy on storage and use of volatile chemicals (varnish/paint) is cost prohibitive, so finish it at home.

You need to get checked out on special equipment like the CNC machine, an extra $15 or so for the tutoring/class.

You can make a big mess with wood dust, they are installing a central vacuum system, but styrofoam sanding looks like it will be a no-no.

Several garage doors allow you to pull in and unload supplies. There are storage rooms, which will have lockers in them.

I think that if you are going to open one of these yourself, get radio ads and full press releases going. Also, don't open until everything is ready to go, like the central vacuum system. Also, invite some of your friends over to work on their projects while the tours are taking place, that way people can see the equipment in action and how it works. Tom did not do this, and the atmosphere was good for discussion, but not much else. Guess that made the safety factor high though. We still all put on safety glasses before entering the heavy shop area with lathes and stuff.

As I was hoping, to will meet others with similar interest there (networking). I met the draftsperson for a local high-end builder who was taking the tour with his son. I gave him my card, never know when they need a architect (w/seal) for a project.

Tools: the hand tools are not checked out, it's the honor system with a twist. There is another nearby business specializing in video security. They have installed a system which detects when a tool is missing and notifies the supervisor when it is gone for a longer than usual period. I don't know if they go hunting for the mislaid tool at that point, or start looking at video footage for the last user.

The monthly deal looks attractive, but like a gym membership is only as good as you are willing to take advantage of.

[kach22i]

Alright, if some of you liked the idea of a fabric skinned car, then how do you feel about gold foil over PVC pipes with duct tape?

Ferdinand GT3 RS - Roadtrip........worlds slowest Porsche
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjEKi...yer_detailpage
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MjEKi9D2hh0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

EDIT:
http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/du...t-porsche.html

The Ferdinand GT3 RS may look a lot like a Porsche roadster, but as we all know, appearances can often be deceiving. I’m not even sure we can call this thing a car, considering it doesn’t even have an engine, but it’s definitely an interesting concept. The Ferdinand GT3 RS weighs an astounding 99.63 kilograms, which is lighter than any other working car, but that means all the “unnecessary” components were left out. The body of this home-made sports car is made of plastic tubes, and the wheels are so slim they wouldn’t even fit on a bicycle.

[kach22i]

More:.............99.63 kilograms (219.6 lbs)
http://www.skitzone.com/2010/homemad...dinand-gt3-rs/

[olpro]

The Fabric car?
These are some recent cad studies for a fabric covered body, done for a Mendeola/Beetle chassis and 2.5L Suburu engine. They are very rough studies of course, to just explore design possibilities. Lots of holes and unresolved areas.wacosedonabg_2.jpgSS1a.jpgSS1b.jpg
The fabric body sections have to be very flat (between formers) and it is difficult to design around this limitation. Still I think there is potential for this concept. The windshield surrounds are from an earlier model (done in fiberglass) which is probably what I would do, even though the rest of the body would be canvas or polyester fabric over tubing, ala the golden age airplanes.

[kach22i]

Nice rough study oldpro.

I found this doing a search on the topic, lots of drawings and a few photos.

Fabric Body Corp., 1923-1928; Detroit, Michigan
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/f/fabric/fabric.htm

Childs had been experimenting with. fabric bodies since 1919, first with California-type tops for open touring cars, then closed bodies.

...............By the late Twenties too, painting techniques had become so refined that the fabric body offered no savings in construction time over the standard metal production body.

.................................................. ............................................


http://gaboats.com/
Pictured below, the remarkable 8-pound SweetPea™ can carry a 150+ pound person.
titlepic300.jpg
Holding the SweetPea with one hand is long time boat designer and inventor, Platt Monfort.

.................................................. ........................

I've found this two page thread interesting, some good information, names and a few photos too.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...=183868&page=2
minerva3.jpg

[acmonster]

Thanks for the report Kach22i! I will hopefully make my way out there soon. I'd love to use the CNC machine to make some DIY speakers.

[Oppenheimer]

http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/du...t-porsche.html

That is just hilarious. At first sight of the 'chassis' I thought it was a 4 wheeled bicycle, but then I realized no pedals, this is Fred Flintstones Porsche! In one of the street pics you can see the guys feet on the ground.

Someone with way too much time...

[kach22i]

http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/du...t-porsche.html

That is just hilarious. At first sight of the 'chassis' I thought it was a 4 wheeled bicycle, but then I realized no pedals, this is Fred Flintstones Porsche! In one of the street pics you can see the guys feet on the ground.

Someone with way too much time...

The link does not work.

[olpro]

One more fabric body study (see post #63).

SS1c.jpg

[kach22i]

Hard to weed though the jabber in this blog and get to anything technical. Still, interesting use of materials.

http://colonial-diaspora.blogspot.co...1_archive.html
top+cover.JPG
cockpit.JPG
rear+bodywork.JPG

[olpro]

Roll benders? What do you know?
Most tube bending is straight-tight radius-straight. This will not work for a fabric covered body where the outlines of the form (bent tubing) have to be smooth large radius curves, constantly CHANGING. To make it more complicated, some tubing would have to be bent in a three dimensional manner, like the frame around a production windshield.
Anybody know about this subject, having actually done it?

[kach22i]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...tml#post236132

FYI, the diesel trike that's been to a few of the Green Grand Prix events at Watkins Glen is cedar strip construction:





From: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...-may-7961.html

[fiaroadster]

http://techshop.ws/ Very cool place

[kach22i]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ods-18584.html

The whole body of the Westfield iRacer is made of heatshrink film over thin formers. It's really quite cunning, but I imagine it'll have a few people put their hands through it...

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/quie...e-car-profile/
http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/
westfield-iracer-ev-cup-race-car-profile.jpg

Geneva 2010: Westfield iRACER exposed sporting spandex, not embarrassed
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/03/03...ndex-not-emba/
westfield-iracer-geneva-630.jpg

polyurethane-polyurea copolymer stretched across its angular aluminum frame serves as a strong yet lightweight covering for the lean body of the purpose-built machine

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11003042...va/lowphotos#0
1550878.jpg

"The use of materials such as fabrics has limited scope for road use, but has major benefits for racing," says Paul Faithfull, iRacer project manager. "Imagine being able to change your bodywork in a matter of minutes, with a new body stretched over the framework, changing the colour, sponsors or just effecting rapid repairs. It is also extremely light compared to almost all alternative materials."

Read more: http://www.worldcarfans.com/11003042...#ixzz1WAQHg5SC

[riptide motorsport]

Not a fan of the fabrics

[olpro]

George, thanks for posting that. It’s one I hadn’t seen and it looks like they are fairly creative with the forms they can get with that material (Spandex).
I suspect that the better material to use is Stits fabric (polyester) or something like it. It can be heat shrunk 5–10 percent to form compound forms and is up to the aerodynamic forces a car would encounter. You can read more about it at:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/...er_fabric.html
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/polyfiber.html
I am continuing my study for a fabric body and it looks quite promising in terms of development costs and maybe even aesthetics. It is rather hard to cad model such designs but maybe I will post something later.

[kach22i]

George, thanks for posting that. It’s one I hadn’t seen....................

Now that I have my mind on the topic it's pretty easy to remember to come back here after a discovery and post the find. Stuff is out there, just have to keep an open eye.

There are several models of hovercraft by Sevtec which use aircraft fabric coverings. I flew in one once, just have to be careful not to push down on that part.

[kach22i]

http://www.charlottemotorspeedway.co...ws/549530.html
splinter_lg.jpg

"I figured that if England could build a 415-mph airplane 70 years ago out of laminated plywood and primitive glue, then I should be able to use composite wood technologies and modern adhesives to create a rigid and reliable 200-mph automobile," said Harmon.......................

To create the 21st century body, Harmon's team ran 60-foot strips of cherry veneer through a homemade slicing machine powered by a 1,000-pound hand-cranked winch attached to the trailer hitch of a pickup truck. The one-eighths-inch-wide strips were then fed into a custom-built wood loom, resulting in a strong woven mat. Harmon combined those large mats, other wood veneers, vacuum pressure and Space-Age epoxy to produce the car's superlight exterior panels in body molds he made from a full-size Splinter mockup............................

Harmon and the Splinter group worked seven days a week for two years to complete the project, which earned him a "pass" for his pass/fail graduate studies. As Harmon predicted, building a wooden car from scratch was a good résumé builder - he was immediately hired by Corvid Technologies in Mooresville, an engineering company with projects ranging from car design to aerodynamic development.

[kach22i]

I'm not sure if I've posted this one already, some nice work going on.

carben-model-1-24th-scale-model-3d-computer
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ter-11969.html

Also just keep clicking "NEXT" on this link (from the thread above), pretty cool.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0at83721AM.png

[mekeys]

I'm not sure if I've posted this one already, some nice work going on.

carben-model-1-24th-scale-model-3d-computer
http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...ter-11969.html

Also just keep clicking "NEXT" on this link (from the thread above), pretty cool.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v7...0at83721AM.png

I just clicked view all lots faster that way

[olpro]

This fabric covered design starts with tube framing, either steel or aluminum, which supports the fabric. The images show the perimeter but none of the connecting framing that would be required. Not completed at this point is the separate framing for moving panels such as a hood or engine cover.
The manikin is an SAE 50 percentile American male.
newtubesA.jpg