Open Design Discussion and What's NEXT!

[LuisL]

I say do a GT40. I know, I know.... I just love that car...

[mikeinatlanta]

Here is what I want.

The body should as a minimum give no lift and be made to accept front and rear aero devices.
The aero devices should be removable for the street.
The car should have a bolt in cage option that can be swapped out with or added to a three point hoop for the street. Steel in the top near the doors (like the GTM) is dangerous without a helmet.

[Mike N]

The lotus elise doesn't have PS, and it doesn't need it. I also used to have a heavily modified MR2. The PS would only work at slow speeds. Anything higher than 50 or 60, and it was completely turned off. My MR2 had 310 hp and weighed about 2800 lbs.

Steve come drive my 2250 lb FFR Roadster through a fast tight Auto X slalom on DOT-R tires and then tell me you wouldn't like to have power steering. I realize that I am in the small minority, very small? but wanted to put it out there that if it could be added as a bolt in I think that more than a few people would use it. However I would defer to Jim Schenk on whether he thinks it might be nice to have or not needed for Auto X.

[UpstateCobraGuy]

Sign me up right now for something like the new/old Stratos

Needs real world ground clearance & room for "real sized humans"

Pat

[Hankl]

One of my favorites, The 906




Going further back in time, the 904



Either styling would be a winner.

Hank

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Hey Dave......how is Jim's eye twitch getting along about now? LOL!!!! We have votes for a pure race car, a daily driver, a modern design, a 60's race car, and a mid-engine pick-up truck.............Are you going to have to get out the white jacket with the extra-long sleeves for Jim?

[Imp]

Reading this thread and the hype surrounding the car on the various Subaru forums I'm on, a movie quote popped into my head... "We're gonna need a bigger boat."

Here's why that popped into my head: is Factory Five ready to handle the volume that may come their way when this kit is released along with keeping up with other existing models? From past open houses I've been to, it doesn't seem like you have that much more expansion room to handle a relatively 'budget' kit car which would hopefully translate into more units produced.

--kC

[Dan Babb]

Will there be room for AC & Heat in the engine bay/ front end?

Turbos...for the 15k target, I'm sure you're talking about using a non-turbo WRX model...but what if we want to add some huffers? What could be reused off the donor in that case?

Will the front end have a removable compartment for storage - like some of older production mid-engine cars?

Windows...any chance of roll-up windows? Have you figured that out with the 33 hotrod? If so, could the same design be used with "new-car-o" (call it project Newcaro)


With a hard-top and A/C, this could a cool little weekend trip car.

[Imp]

FF XRW.

--kC

[Oppenheimer]

I've been following FFR for years, hoping, dreaming, "one day" I'd build a dream-car. I was thinking of a roadster that I'd drive to work on a regular, 3 seasons, basis. It'd be FI'ed, with CATS to keep it quiet, I'd leave the ABS intact (with an 'off' switch), add aftermarket traction control (for the rain, wife, etc), I'd have a good softtop (or maybe a hardtop), heated seats, AC, etc. But I knew it would never really be weather-tight, and I knew that would get old quick.

Thought about a GTM, but its just too much. Too much $$$, too much effort, too much car. I have been following the G3F, and was midly interested in that. But I've always been a Subie fan, so I'm _really_ excited about this new FFR concept (flat engine is perfect for mid-rear application, Subie parts are very interchangable, so many build options, suitable donors are plentiful worldwide, TONS of aftermarket support and car-guy Subie knowledge abundant).

Like many others here, I think it'll become a _very_ popular kit, and pull in a whole new audience to FFR. I can really see myself building one of these. I would use it as a DD (but not the only car), commuting, etc, so I'm really hoping for roll-up windows. I'm also wookie-torso'd, so I'm glad to hear provisions for such are being acknowledged (My head touches the ceiling in most production cars and even SUV I've sat in, and I look _down_ at the rear-view mirror, which always blocks my windshield view), so I'm hoping for lots of headroom.

If there were to be a solid-roof coupe version, I'd be all over that. Otherwise a hardtop option is a must for me. If heat & AC can be options (hopefully reusing donor parts), all the better.

As for looks, I'm sure I'll like whatever is chosen, so long as its not too garish (though I love the Attack photos, its over-the-top, but it _works_). I LOVE the idea of no-paint panels (available in several color choices, right?) AWESOME idea, give a bonus to the guy that thought of that one (lots of production cars use plastic panels these days, but most are still painted - WHY?!?) The G3F idea of reusing the dash and other interior bits from the donor lends a real OEM look & feel, while keeping costs down. Will that tactic be used here? I would prefer if it were (though that limits single-donor options, I don't see that as a drawback. Just source your interior bits from an Impreza, the WRX guys are likely to be leaving that stuff behind anyway when they strip a parts-car-obviously not talking about seats here).

I will be following this new kit closely. I'm thinking I'll finally be ready to build a car right around when this kit becomes available. Just PLEASE keep it DD-able.

[Dave Smith]

I'm the last one in the building... I think they all quit. Today was busy beyond measure. If you called and didnt get thru or are checking on an order, HUGE appologies, tomorrow should be better. Jim was seen leaving with a terrible eye-twitch... Kidding about Jim.

I am in a hurry to get to the March 1 design competiton and we can answer alot of questions at that time. Still, I am confident the the QUALITY of thinking and design that has already gone into this car will make it very successful. We have done a good job of nailing our design goals over the years. The ideas here are really solid gold though.

Dave

[Kasmodean]

If you're looking for old '60s race cars, RCR has plenty of them. Lola, Porsche 917, 962, Ferrari P4, etc.....

http://www.race-car-replicas.com/rcr917.html

Yes, they are gorgeous cars, but also complicated and generally much more expensive to build than what I think FFR has in mind for this car. I'm hoping for something modern.....not a design that's already 50+ years old and everyone is going to assume it's a kit car as soon as they see it.

I agree 100%, I hope for something edgy and modern. Jim did an excellent job with the GTM and I hope this cars can turn as many heads as the GTM. Following those lines, I hope this car will not look like the new/old Stratos or Lotus 211 or any other car that seems bland compared to a GTM. I mean this as no disrespect to anyone that does like theoe cars, just my opinion.

[billjr212]

I couldn't agree more that some GTM styling cues would be great. I love the look of that car, but the cost is just too steep for me (and I assume many) to justify. On the same hand, would not want to make it just a mini-GTM (as cool as that would be) since you certainly don't want to water down that brand.

Also agree with the idea of a targa or similar design with a removable (hard or soft) top. Would probably lean towards soft top for ease of removal (at the gas station, after work, etc), cost (I would assume), and in car storage potential. I like to pretend some days that my Mk3 is a daily driver, but that usually only lasts until the first random/unexpected Chicago rainstorm each spring. Something closer to a daily driver would give me a little leverage on why I "need" to build another Factory Five. Not too worried about track-ability suffering - given the balance and power, I would assume the people that want to push it to be more of a track-only car will have no problem getting it there. Turning a track car into a daily driver is much more difficult though.

Interesting point earlier about the wind swirling issues with a solid rear window. The rear window on a Lotus Elise (at least the 1st ones that came to the US) was removable, right?

Anyway, psyched for March 1st!

[jcoll55]

I ask only one thing Please Make it a COUPE. or at least a targa. I am sure Jim will do great with the rest. I just think it is impossible to make a bad a$$ car that looks fast in a small roadster style, they are girls cars. examples are Mazda Miata, Saturn Sky, Pontiac Soltice, even the K-1 Attack looks girly to me. I would love some thing more like the Lotus Exige. that is a bad a$$ small light weight car. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE IT A COUPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry all you top down fans, I just hate convertables. (execpt the FFR MK IV, "LOVE IT") Thanks good luck with the car Dave which ever way you go!!!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I doubt that FFR is going to retain the donor dash, seats, AC, etc. If they're going to meet their weight goal, there is no way they're going to be able to keep those things. Production cars seats...even manual operated ones.....are probably in the 50 pound each range......power seats probably closer to 80 pounds.....and they're going to raise the seating position up about 6 inches...which will require the roof to be 6" higher. The bare dash alone would probably be close to 50 pounds. Probably another 50+ pounds for the whole AC heater unit under the dash...which are generally pretty huge and specifically shaped to fit that particular production car.

[jmimac351]

Dave, will this car be suitable or have the provisions easily added for track duty?

If so, removable front splitter...not a valance, an actual splitter setup as an option. Rear diffuser - a al Exige. Rear wing as an option. An aftermarket Miata track wing should fit. If not an option thru you, have provisions for it to bolt on to the rear chassis.

Essentially, make the car capable of being "track ready" with bolt-ons similar to how the Exige comes from the factory.

[Oppenheimer]

I doubt that FFR is going to retain the donor dash, seats, AC, etc. If they're going to meet their weight goal, there is no way they're going to be able to keep those things. Production cars seats...even manual operated ones.....are probably in the 50 pound each range......power seats probably closer to 80 pounds.....and they're going to raise the seating position up about 6 inches...which will require the roof to be 6" higher. The bare dash alone would probably be close to 50 pounds. Probably another 50+ pounds for the whole AC heater unit under the dash...which are generally pretty huge and specifically shaped to fit that particular production car.

Agree on all points about the seats (didn't see anyone mention using the donor seats, I'd expect it to be a given that this kit would use aftermarket seats).

Of course, for those that want more track, less street, they could easily delete such things as heater, AC, etc. Allow everyone to build it as they see fit.

But I believe that designing to allow retaining creature-comfort features should not compromise performance for those that want to delete these items. Only if the design can accomdate builders choice, without compromising things for the builder that wants to delete, should these be retained in the design.

[WhirlpoolBrewer]

I for one am also super excited for March 1st! I' crossing my fingers for an Attack styling. I REALLY like the way they did the targa top sort of thing, just something behind the passengers' heads but nothing in between the two head backings. It looks FANTASTIC! It looks modern, cool, and feels more like a real convertable instead of just sawing the roof off and calling it quits. Its just awesome, why isn't it March yet?

[GRT YT 72]

Personally I am not a convertible guy and really like the idea of targa top. With all the enthusiasm building it will be exciting to watch the design unfold. Is it March yet?

[Someday I Suppose]

It's funny to me questions about AWD and daily driver vs. sports car, to me Dave layed that out in post 1.

"Chassis: Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95" Wheel Base is optimal for small-lightwieght perfomance car. Add wookie-capable interior/space as goal.

Layout: Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration, two seater roadster

Target weight - 1,800 lbs."

That says to me here is Jim's chance to build a kicking 4cyl turbo sports car, something that will be amazing at the Auto X and fun fun fun at a track day. Maybe even a spec series in its future???

I don't think daily driver and comfort should be the goal. I go back to Dave's comments on Musclecar about the 33 Hot Rod, Jim convinced him to do it when he said he could design a hot rod that handles like a race car, and that fit the creed of Factory Five. I'm not saying the car should be uncomfortable, but to me performance should be driving the design.

As for design, I love the idea of a Targa top, and I like the ideas of doors for the Wookies among us. A lot of us already own a true Roadster :-) With the targa type top it might be cool to be able to hide the roll bar in the body govomg the safety to run at track days but less intrusive. I like the big sweeping windscreen of some of the cars pictured where the driver can see into the corner without having to look through an A-pillar.

I'm excited about the design for sure, can't wait to see it come together.

_Scott

[MikeK]

I'm with Shane on two points, 1. the Attack is Badass, something along those lines will have 4442 going up for sale. 2. The targa top is a winner for looks as well as ease of storage. I'm already storing a Wrangler hardtop in the summer plus a multitude of other crap, I'm running out of space.

P.S. only Factory Five could make me ever consider owning/building something with less than 8 cyl. and not made in America.

[Evan78]

If I had a awd WRX donor; where would I source the single drive trans? an early impreza? and whether awd or fwd donor; do subies have paddle shifting from factory or aftermarket or not at all?

All Subarus sold in the U.S. are 4wd since the mid-90's I believe, so it's unlikely that they're going to use any 2wd Subaru transmission. They'll probably convert the WRX trans to 2wd.

[Evan78]

It would be interesting to have the option of minimal body panels like an Atom or Locost/Caterham. Practicality suffers, but perhaps it could be an option to save weight and cost for those that would prefer it. I say this because I've been thinking my next car would be a Locost, and it would be awesome if FFR offered something in that segment.

[Sergio]

Here's an Attack with a top on:


I believe they never fabricated this particular top, it was done by someone else to fit to the Attack. I really like it and doesn't look to "girlish"

If the FFR Car looks like that I will definately get one, when the Attack came out I really really wanted to build one, as Shane has expressed the Attack looks fantastic once finished, unfortunately K1 the company that made it was on Eastern Europe and shipping was a real problem and they had some issues with fitment of the doors, etc.
I always tought that If Factory Five built this particular kit FFR would have sold Thousands also, (and would be easier to get since FFR is already in the US) -

K1 built the frame to accept a Honda Accord drivetrain. If FFR uses a Subaru engine, I already have an spare engine for my Legacy GT.

[Scotty-2-Hottie]

I respectfully disagree with saying the new car should include styling cues of this car or that car. It kind of defeats the exercise of starting with a clean-sheet. I would suggest this is an opportunity for FFR to further establish its own brand identity and design language. 5 years from now the basic shape should be fresh. This admittedly is hard to pull off, but if you don't aim for something you have little chance to hit it. The roadster still is an attractive iconic design all these years later because it has simple powerful shapes that are relatable across multigenerational tastes. A 32" ford is another example of a simple is better approach and still generates endless re-interpretations. I would follow the advice I give myself all the time... Keep It Simple Stupid...

[Doc_FFR]

So many cooks, but just one entree. Do us a favor Dave and ignore us all.

[LS MAN]

Hey Guys, 4 wheel drive is not an option. The drive train is being taken out of the front of the WRX & installed in the rear. The output shaft that went to the rear diff on the WRX is now sticking out the back of the car. Unless you wanted a 6 wheeler?, 4WD ain't gonna happen.

Ted

[fuoriserie]

Hi Dave,

A great project and I'm looking forward to working on a design proposal when the Design competition starts on March 1st.

Will the kit be sold in Europe ?

Thanks in advance for your info
Italo

[Oppenheimer]

It's funny to me questions about AWD and daily driver vs. sports car, to me Dave layed that out in post 1.

"Chassis: Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95" Wheel Base is optimal for small-lightwieght perfomance car. Add wookie-capable interior/space as goal.

Layout: Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration, two seater roadster

Target weight - 1,800 lbs."

That says to me here is Jim's chance to build a kicking 4cyl turbo sports car, something that will be amazing at the Auto X and fun fun fun at a track day. Maybe even a spec series in its future???

I don't think daily driver and comfort should be the goal. I go back to Dave's comments on Musclecar about the 33 Hot Rod, Jim convinced him to do it when he said he could design a hot rod that handles like a race car, and that fit the creed of Factory Five. I'm not saying the car should be uncomfortable, but to me performance should be driving the design.

As for design, I love the idea of a Targa top, and I like the ideas of doors for the Wookies among us. A lot of us already own a true Roadster :-) With the targa type top it might be cool to be able to hide the roll bar in the body govomg the safety to run at track days but less intrusive. I like the big sweeping windscreen of some of the cars pictured where the driver can see into the corner without having to look through an A-pillar.

I'm excited about the design for sure, can't wait to see it come together.

_Scott

I think its a bit selfish to think the car should be designed to only accomodate what you envision building yours to be. I see here an opportunity to develop something more versatile. Something that each builder could mold to their needs. You want an ultimate track-day car, build yours that way. You want something you can drive on a regular basis as a DD, build yours that way. Something in between? The choice should be yours.

The key though would be to design in the ability to retain these creature-comfort features, but make it equally easy to delete them during the build. That the Roadster can accomodate anything from a pushrod 302 to a bigblock to a 4.6 DOHC takes nothing away from the car (does the Coyote fit? I saw that the drop-in engine program will offer the Coyote). The Roadster can be built period correct, or Resto-Mod updated, from the interior to under the hood. I think there is an opportunity to allow even more builder-descretion with this new project. Lets embrace it.

I will concede however that accomodating a creature comfort should not come at the expense of those that wish to delete it. It shouldn't make the car heavier, or uglier, or more expensive to allow, for example, AC, for those that are going to delete the AC (within reason).

[michael everson]

I really like the styling of the K1 Attack. Dave make it look similar to that I and I will be first in line
Mike

[keys2heaven]

I really like the styling of the K1 Attack. Dave make it look similar to that I and I will be first in line
Mike

I do like the top in the above pic. However, I really like that droop hood in the sketch. That is sweet. Nice, smooth, low, agressive profile.

[Brad]

I, as well, owned a heavily modified MR2 Turbo, and can say with confidence that you don't need PS in a light, 2 door, mid engine RWD beast. PS takes the feel out of it completely, and not having it was great. I can't wait for this thing to come out... I will surely be building it.. I miss my deuce coupe!

[Dave Smith]

All good ideas. I think the direction and specs released in the design competition will uncork some real creativity. I am also confident that the design can serve a few different use-masters... meaning capable track car and yet still capable street car. Obviously there will be conflicting goals and desires, as this conversation has shown, but the car will be better for the "sifting and winnowing" (quote from abe lincoln) process. There are some heavy hitters lining up to help the design process, but more on that later as the March 1 date approaches.

Dave Smith
FFR001

[Calamity J]

Will there be room for AC & Heat in the engine bay/ front end?

Turbos...for the 15k target, I'm sure you're talking about using a non-turbo WRX model...but what if we want to add some huffers? What could be reused off the donor in that case?

If it's going to be street legal in the US, heat (defogger) will be a prerequisite. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

There is no such thing as a non-turbo WRX. That would be like a V6 Mustang Cobra or Camaro SS. WRX indicates a turbocharged engine. I believe FFR intends on accommodating the turbocharged EJ engines by their use of the wording "WRX running gear". The only difficulty over the naturally aspirated engines should be getting adequate airflow to the intercooler. Relocating the intercooler for better airflow should be fairly inexpensive.

I doubt that FFR is going to retain the donor dash, seats, AC, etc. If they're going to meet their weight goal, there is no way they're going to be able to keep those things. Production cars seats...even manual operated ones.....are probably in the 50 pound each range......power seats probably closer to 80 pounds.....and they're going to raise the seating position up about 6 inches...which will require the roof to be 6" higher. The bare dash alone would probably be close to 50 pounds. Probably another 50+ pounds for the whole AC heater unit under the dash...which are generally pretty huge and specifically shaped to fit that particular production car.

Agreed on the seats.

The Impreza dashes from '93-'07 and the Forester dashes from '98-'08 (two generations of each) are all roughly the same dimensions so donors wouldn't be hard to come by. People have been swapping the newer Impreza dashes ('02-'07) into older Imprezas ('93-'01) when doing engine swaps without much trouble. The '89-'94 & '95-'99 Legacy dash is also very similar.

Unfortunately, those dashes were designed for a high cowl befitting a hood made to clear a MacPherson strut front suspension and the upright 'rally car' seating position. Perhaps, if the kit were to only use the top portion of the dash and the windshield from the donor car with a simple custom center console (HVAC/Radio) panel and a fiberglass lower trim panel, this would allow for a reasonable-looking interior at a low cost.

The following dashes are nearly identical for the Impreza.. but the Forester's two-tone really highlights what I'm talking about:

('98-'03 Forester dash)


('04-'08 Forester dash)


So, have the builder cut the dash apart at the seam where the darker upper dash is, mate it to the fiberglass lower dash and then select the center HVAC panel that fits depending on which year vehicle you're donating from (all USDM WRXs are the newer-style so those would constitute the vast majority of the kits). The entire dash could be rotated forward slightly to increase leg room (and keep the gauges pointed at the driver's head) and of course the car will use a smaller steering wheel than the giant ones that come stock on Subarus.

That's all conjecture, though. I'm really looking forward to more details (particularly on the suspension) on the 1st.

---
As for the daily driver discussion. I think anyone planning on driving a $15k kit car to work every day in comfort and style is dreaming. I mean, there's no stopping someone from spending $80k on re-engineering the car into the best daily driver it can be.. but why? The donor car WRX is a terrific daily driver with ample ground clearance, A/C, etc. Want a mid-engined daily driver? There are still MR2s out there that would be fantastic going, stopping, headturning daily drivers with $15k invested... They'd also be crash tested and safe to drive in traffic. I see that some of you think that it should be your daily because you already have a FFR Roadster or Coupe in your garage for the weekends.. but if you're paying attention, FFR is doing this to expand their market.. to people like me.. who don't. Consider the market.. the vast majority of people who build kit cars aren't going to be daily driving them. We'll be lucky have enough people tracking them.

[keys2heaven]

Why not just call it.... March 1

[Someday I Suppose]

Title requirements differ in pretty much every state.

Oppenheimer, I didn't mean to be selfish, and not sure what gave you the idea that I didn't think the car could be used as you describe. My comments and thoughts were just what I was reading into the post from Dave. I don't at all think the car will not be able to have AC or heat, nor should it be uncomfortable to drive, especially for us big guys.

My thought though is that comfort shouldn't be the #1 goal, maybe # 2 or #3, but not #1. If comfort was #1 then is this car not competing against Honda Fit's and Ford Fiesta's? Though if performance and style are the priorities, then your competing against Lotus and Honda S2000's but at a far better price point.

-Scott

[Kalstar]

I think FF should think 4 seater after this new kit is on the market. All of their offerings are 2 seaters. I would guess that many of the potental FFR buyers have children and need the occational back seat. Factory Five could open up a hole new segment for themselves. Think Ferrari 612, Lotus Evora, Maserati even Porsche and Lamborghini are in the four seater business. A front engine GT using a modified 65 coupe frame and a donor RX-8 or maybe even a 93-02 Camaro/Firebird as the donor would be a nice addition.

60's old school......check

Hot Rodders.......check

American exotic......Check

Tuner enthusiast........check

Four seater GT..........?????


The RX-8 has been in production for 8 years now. Donors should be cheap and they handle very well right out of the box.

Camaro/Firebirds are very inexpensive and 98+ have LS1.

[Oppenheimer]

Title requirements differ in pretty much every state.

Oppenheimer, I didn't mean to be selfish, and not sure what gave you the idea that I didn't think the car could be used as you describe. My comments and thoughts were just what I was reading into the post from Dave. I don't at all think the car will not be able to have AC or heat, nor should it be uncomfortable to drive, especially for us big guys.

My thought though is that comfort shouldn't be the #1 goal, maybe # 2 or #3, but not #1. If comfort was #1 then is this car not competing against Honda Fit's and Ford Fiesta's? Though if performance and style are the priorities, then your competing against Lotus and Honda S2000's but at a far better price point.

-Scott

Agreed on all points. Especially agree that comfort and DD type ammenities should not, NOT, be #1 priority. Not even #2 nor perhaps even #3. I just think they shouldn't be automatically excluded.

Lots of people are taking umbrage at 'DD' comments (not targeting you here Scott, just comments in general). I think perhaps some of that is what people mean by 'DD'. To me that isn't trying to duplicate the high-end ride, comfort, and ambiance of my wife's Audi. It simply means a car with roll-up windows, the option of a weather tight roof, able to make it quiet enough to prevent permanent hearing loss, and able to have enough climate control to not risk hypothermia when its near the freezing mark, or sunstroke if its above 80 (and humid, like it often is here in the East in summer).

For me, the only thing keeping the Roadster for being 'DD-able' is the weather-tight roof and roll-up windows part. And while you can 'roll-your-own' in a lot of ways in your Roadster build, those 2 things are not easy to overcome. I'm hoping this new kit won't have those limitations. If I can also get real heat and real defroster and real AC, then I've got my ideal DD-able kit.

I am not into garage queens, or even weekend only toys, let alone track-day only. I just don't have the space, resources, or time. If I built a kit car (when), I will be using it, a lot, for going wherever I need to go. When I need more room, or the road is too slippery with snow or ice, I've got an SUV for that. Otherwise I'll be driving the wheels off my 'fun' car. I'm hoping my new fun car is going to be a, whatever we end up calling the new kit.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Agreed on all points. Especially agree that comfort and DD type ammenities should not, NOT, be #1 priority. Not even #2 nor perhaps even #3. I just think they shouldn't be automatically excluded.

Lots of people are taking umbrage at 'DD' comments (not targeting you here Scott, just comments in general). I think perhaps some of that is what people mean by 'DD'. To me that isn't trying to duplicate the high-end ride, comfort, and ambiance of my wife's Audi. It simply means a car with roll-up windows, the option of a weather tight roof, able to make it quiet enough to prevent permanent hearing loss, and able to have enough climate control to not risk hypothermia when its near the freezing mark, or sunstroke if its above 80 (and humid, like it often is here in the East in summer).

For me, the only thing keeping the Roadster for being 'DD-able' is the weather-tight roof and roll-up windows part. And while you can 'roll-your-own' in a lot of ways in your Roadster build, those 2 things are not easy to overcome. I'm hoping this new kit won't have those limitations. If I can also get real heat and real defroster and real AC, then I've got my ideal DD-able kit.

I am not into garage queens, or even weekend only toys, let alone track-day only. I just don't have the space, resources, or time. If I built a kit car (when), I will be using it, a lot, for going wherever I need to go. When I need more room, or the road is too slippery with snow or ice, I've got an SUV for that. Otherwise I'll be driving the wheels off my 'fun' car. I'm hoping my new fun car is going to be a, whatever we end up calling the new kit.

Very well put and very much in-line with my thoughts. The last GTM I built, I installed a Hot Rod Air unit in. They are now out of business, but I was thinking that Vintage Air makes a similar unit. Very compact and simple unit. Basically just a small twin blower motor blowing air thru a heater-core/evaporator combo. Cable operated ball valve in the heater core lines. You want heat? Open the ball valve to let coolant circulate thru the heater core. Want AC? Close the ball valve and kick on the compressor. No blend doors, servo motors, or complicated electronics or the space taken up by all of that. I'd guess it to be about 40% the size and weight of the FFR option GTM AC system. Simple, Simple, Simple.....

[C.Tree]

Before I was a ford fan and FF has made me a ford, chevy and now subbie dreamer. This kit is affordable, I'm sure will do well on street/track and one I would like to build. Thanks FF!

Evan78, Thanks for the response. Do you know if the awd trans can be converted to fwd? I think this may be difficult because isn't the power split (i.e. 60/40 front/rear) computer controled?

I dont see much donors in HI. Any body else having this problem?

Thanks All!