Coyote tune problem

[hogauto]

New coyote crate engine, gen 2. I’ve been working with Lund Racing trying to tune this engine . So far it’s been a horrible experience. Now a lot of it was myself because I’m used to Apple products and they don’t support it. After over 50 emails they now tell me that the IRMC is locked open and stuck at 4 volts. Any ideas on how to fix ? The cold air intake is the only thing I changed when installing. Thanks

[hogauto]

There are not any codes present

[edwardb]

Sorry to hear that. I've used Lund three times now with great results. But the only Apple product I have is our iPhones and my wife's iPad. Have done the tuning exercise with my Windows laptop and zero issues. Any chance you could borrow one and take that out of the equation? Or maybe you have that figured out now. Three things I can think of: (1) Did you do the vacuum plumbing on the IMRC circuit? That's not covered in either the Factory Five or Ford instructions, so is often missed. Out of the crate, the system won't work. (2) You can see the IMRC data yourself if you look at the log files. Maybe confirm that's what's really happening. They're just Excel spreadsheet files. (3) Very strange to me they're "stuck" and not throwing code(s). Who are you working with at Lund? They have several tuners. Maybe suggest someone else take a look at it.

[hogauto]

I am not blaming Lund at all. They have been very patient with me. I had an older laptop that’s working fine. I did not do anything for the plumbing for the circuit. I will look at that later. I’ve mainly been working with Jon jr
Thanks

[hogauto]

Do you have a picture of the back of the engine where the hose is supposed to hookup ?

[Svtfreak]

Check and make sure nothing got stuck in the actuators arms and rods. Part of the harness, a heater line maybe?

Remove the imrc solonoids and sensors and lock them open. Have them completely turn them off. Won’t notice a difference.

[edwardb]

I am not blaming Lund at all. They have been very patient with me. I had an older laptop that’s working fine. I did not do anything for the plumbing for the circuit. I will look at that later. I’ve mainly been working with Jon jr
Thanks

Do you have a picture of the back of the engine where the hose is supposed to hookup ?

That's a problem, and likely what's happening. Still surprised your not seeing DTC's. When I was sorting this out on mine and didn't have it hooked up I was getting codes. Anyway, there's a hose nipple sticking out the back of the intake manifold. Your engine should have come with a hose on that fitting that went through the manifold and the other end hanging in space. That end has to be hooked to a vacuum source on the front of the engine. Early Gen 2's had a hose on the other side that's a vent for the IMRC vacuum motors, also left hanging in space, that goes to a fitting on your cold air intake. If yours doesn't have this second hose, nothing for you to do. Ford changed the system to vent to the atmosphere.

This is a thread I did on the subject a few years ago. It kind of wanders around and can be confusing. But details what I summarized above. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-CMCV-Plumbing

I've worked with Jon Jr. before and feel like he knows his stuff. He's their lead programmer I believe. Good luck.

[hogauto]

I see the one that goes to air intake but not the other one. I’ll check to make sure nothing is blocking them . I might have to lock them open. What doesn’t make sense is it runs great and idles perfect but does have a hesitation when starting out in first gear. That’s what I was trying to eliminate

[edwardb]

I see the one that goes to air intake but not the other one. I’ll check to make sure nothing is blocking them . I might have to lock them open. What doesn’t make sense is it runs great and idles perfect but does have a hesitation when starting out in first gear. That’s what I was trying to eliminate

That's a little strange. Are you saying there was only ever one hose on your engine? If so, probably that's the vacuum one you're missing. When did you receive your engine? The engines with two hoses were only in the first year. 2015, when I got mine. The picture below is my engine. That plastic Y connector with a hose going to each vacuum motor and the other end venting to the intake was eliminated. Right below this area on the back of the intake is a plastic nipple pointing straight back that should have come with a hose going through the intake and has to be connected to a vacuum source. Not the intake, but to an actual vacuum source on the front of the engine right behind the throttle body.

I wouldn't be too quick to give up on the IMRC/CMCV setup. It doesn't take any power away (like earlier systems on the mod motors) and improves how the engine runs. Marginally, but it's easy to get working.

[hogauto]

The only hose barb coming out of the back has a hose on it that goes under the intake to to air intake on the ps. I think this is a late engine the part number on the box has a date Of 9-26-19. Everything moves freely.

[edwardb]

The only hose barb coming out of the back has a hose on it that goes under the intake to to air intake on the ps. I think this is a late engine the part number on the box has a date Of 9-26-19. Everything moves freely.

Based on your description and pictures, (1) You have the newer version of the Coyote without the vent line to the cold air intake, and (2) You have the CMCV/IMRC vacuum line hooked up incorrectly. You have it going to the cold air intake, which is the same mistake a bunch of us made early on and the mistake I explained the correction for in the thread I linked earlier. Your system will not work if you leave it this way. The hose with the red arrow here from your picture is incorrect.



Let’s try one more time. This is an absolutely confirmed fix to get the system working. But do what you want.

In the Coyote vacuum diagram from Ford shown below, I circled the following items. Here are the explanations:

Red circle: This is the vent line for the vacuum motors that does not appear to be on your engine. But is on mine as I pictured earlier. Note how it goes to the cold air intake. This is not required for your engine.

Green circle: This is the vacuum source for the CMCV/IMRC that you need to get hooked up properly. Note how it’s coming out of the rear of the intake manifold. On a stock motor, it goes to a hose assembly (not included with the crate engine) that hooks it to the engine’s vacuum source and also provides the vacuum boost for the brakes. Not how it's not connected to the cold air intake, as yours currently is.

Blue circle: This is the hose assembly described above, not included with the engine, which when used, provides vacuum to the CMCV/IMRC system. Without it, the system doesn’t get vacuum, won’t work, and requires you the installer to connect. You can see that if it were installed the CMCV/IMRC vacuum line would be connected to it. The red arrow points to where it gets connected on the Coyote intake manifold for the vacuum source. Explained further below.



Next is a picture of the Gen 2 Coyote intake manifold. The red arrow is pointing to the vacuum source you need to connect the green circled hose to. It’s that simple.



Unfortunately, none of this is in the Ford Performance control pack instructions. The Factory Five Coyote installation instructions show the intake vacuum port (red arrow in intake manifold picture above) used for the fuel regulator vacuum reference line but make no mention of the vacuum required for the CMCV/IMRC system. That’s why in the link I provided earlier I showed using a Y in the line to provide both. If you have a fuel regulator with a vacuum reference signal, likely Lund Racing will tell you not to use it. They recommend leaving the vacuum port on the regulator open to atmosphere. So a Y isn’t required. But it’s your choice. Hopefully this last paragraph didn’t confuse my earlier explanations. Ignore if it does.

BTW, in looking at the picture of your installation, it’s generally recommended to have the MAF sensor on the outside of the intake curve. Gets a smoother signal that way. That would mean having the connector pointed toward the front of the car. You have it on the inside. Best to correct it while your custom tuning is being done. That way the MAF calibration will be the most accurate. It will work that way if you leave it. Just a question of the most optimal setup and tune.

Hope all this helps and you get it sorted out. Good luck. Tell Jon Jr. hello for me. He tuned the Gen 3 Coyote in my brand new red Gen 3 Coupe a couple weeks ago. I sent him pictures of the car and he loved it. I expect he would remember.

[hogauto]

I think I got it. I will make the changes that you recommend. Your patience is greatly appreciated. Thanks

[progmgr1]

Paul,
The vacuum diagram in your last post was very helpful to understand the system (even though us Hot Rod guys have to take off the CMCV stuff). Is that something that's available on line, or did you get it from Ford?
Thanks,
Keith HR #894

[hogauto]

Made the changes Paul recommended and the car runs way better with no hesitation. I would not have had to tune it if I would have hooked it up right. ��. The irmc is not at 4 volts anymore so it must be working now. I’ll let yo know what Lund Racing says on Monday

[edwardb]

Paul,
The vacuum diagram in your last post was very helpful to understand the system (even though us Hot Rod guys have to take off the CMCV stuff). Is that something that's available on line, or did you get it from Ford?
Thanks,
Keith HR #894

I honestly don't remember. That diagram has been kicking around for a few years as some of have been trying to figure it out. Don't remember if I found it or it came from someone else. I personally didn't get it from Ford, I know that. It's for the 2015 Gen 2. The following years were slightly different as I described. The Gen 3 is quite a bit different, so doesn't apply.

Made the changes Paul recommended and the car runs way better with no hesitation. I would not have had to tune it if I would have hooked it up right. ��. The irmc is not at 4 volts anymore so it must be working now. I’ll let yo know what Lund Racing says on Monday

Great! I ran my Gen 2 for about 1,000 with the stock tune, and you're right it doesn't run bad. But it really does run a lot better with the custom tune from Lund. Don't regret doing that. It's worth it.

[hogauto]

It’s working the way it’s supposed to. Amazing what happens if it’s hooked up correctly. Now I need to do a data log but it’s raining and high winds today. Thanks for the help