Wheel stud replacement

[Jay-rod427]

Not really a question for FFR tech, but more so some advice in my opinion. And don't know where else to put technical advice.

I see a LOT of threads of people struggling with replacing lug studs on their hubs. No disrespect but the FFR instructions to use a lug nut to pull them through is awful advice. Begs to tear up the studs and compromise them. I see a lot of others rigging up a socket and hammer, or rigging the hub in a vice, and hitting them in with a hammer or some other device. Also begs to compromise the hub flange.

IMO the absolute best practical way short of an actual stud puller is with an air chisel and a blunted tip.

There are cheaper versions available, but you get the idea if you don't know what an air hammer/chisel is.

https://www.amazon.com/Ingersoll-Ran.../dp/B000VZAENC

And you can either sacrifice one the chisels it comes with and cut/grind a blunt smooth one. Or buy one that fits whatever chisel you buy. Again just for illustration purposes.

https://www.amazon.com/Smoothing-Pne.../dp/B00PIF0KVG

You can have a friend hold the hub, or softly secure it in a vice, then from the backside put the blunt end on the flange of the stud. Go slow doing pulses until you get the hang of it and can keep the chisel from sliding off and hitting the hub. I'd make a quick video, but don't currently have a hub available. The short quick chiseling/hammering motion doesn't really apply a lot of force on the hub risking warping it.

This also works well for getting them out. Just the reverse of the installation.

[GoDadGo]

I've used the "Lug Nut Method" to replace a stud before; however, I did it with a bit of a twist. (No Pun Intended)

I used a coupler nut because it had a flat face and used 5 or 6 stainless washers that I greezed to create a make shift thrust bearing.
A little motor oil on the threads with some axle greese on the washer and my impact wrench made it an easy chore.
While I don't know if this is an acceptable method, it has worked for me and may work for you.

Sorry, but I never tried the Air Chisel Method so I can't comment on it.

[Jay-rod427]

I've used the "Lug Nut Method" to replace a stud before; however, I did it with a bit of a twist. (No Pun Intended)

I used a coupler nut because it had a flat face and used 5 or 6 stainless washers that I greezed to create a make shift thrust bearing.
A little motor oil on the threads with some axle greese on the washer and my impact wrench made it an easy chore.
While I don't know if this is an acceptable method, it has worked for me and may work for you.

Sorry, but I never tried the Air Chisel Method so I can't comment on it.

Sorry If I confused. Not saying the lug nut method won't get the job done. Washers and lots of lube like you stated greatly increases the chance of success. Get a $20 HF air chisel and you'll never use anything else again.

[JohnK]

I've pounded out studs in a vice before, as well as using a nut to pull the new one in. As with most things, the details are important. First, put the hub in a vice with padded jaws so that most of the hub is being supported. Then pound out each stud with a mini-sledge or dead blow hammer. Little risk of damaging a hub if you protect it like this. 4-5 blows with a mini-sledge and they come out pretty easily.

To put the new studs in, I agree that using a lug nut is a bad idea, as it will get ruined in the process. Buy a "sacrificial" grade 8 nut to use for this. Also, as Go Dad said, use a stack of washers, and grease them to reduce friction. Make sure that the ID of the washers is larger than the OD of the shoulder of the stud. You can see in the photo that the two bottom washers are different than the others. This was to accommodate the shoulder. An air impact will draw the studs in easily. If you're paying attention and stop when the stud is seated then, again, there's little real chance of damaging anything.

[NAZ]

If you can't get the hub off the vehicle (rear solid axle) then what do you think that hammering does to the axle bearings? What you're describing is similar to the tool you set large structural rivets with but the tool is conical shaped so it does not slip off the rivet head. I wouldn't recommend this for the R&R of wheels studs on rear axles.

[GoDadGo]

Sorry If I confused. Not saying the lug nut method won't get the job done. Washers and lots of lube like you stated greatly increases the chance of success. Get a $20 HF air chisel and you'll never use anything else again.

When I had to do it, the stud was on the rear axle of my car.
Pulling the axel was far more work than pulling the stud through by the threads.
If I had pulled the axle, I'd have used my press, but the Air Chisel seems like it would work too.

Good Luck!

[NAZ]

I've pounded out studs in a vice before, as well as using a nut to pull the new one in. As with most things, the details are important. First, put the hub in a vice with padded jaws so that most of the hub is being supported. Then pound out each stud with a mini-sledge or dead blow hammer. Little risk of damaging a hub if you protect it like this. 4-5 blows with a mini-sledge and they come out pretty easily. This is not a good practice and if you keep doing it this way you will bend the hub.

To put the new studs in, I agree that using a lug nut is a bad idea, as it will get ruined in the process. Buy a "sacrificial" grade 8 nut to use for this. Also, as Go Dad said, use a stack of washers, and grease them to reduce friction. Make sure that the ID of the washers is larger than the OD of the shoulder of the stud. You can see in the photo that the two bottom washers are different than the others. This was to accommodate the shoulder. An air impact will draw the studs in easily. If you're paying attention and stop when the stud is seated then, again, there's little real chance of damaging anything.

See my comment above about removing them with a hammer in a vice.

I suggest you rethink using the G-8 nut (or property class 10.9 if metric) when using them to pull studs in. You want the nut to be softer than the stud as the nut is sacrificial. Use lots of lube and remember that the first two threads of the nut handle most of the load, therefore, these threads will be deformed in the process. When using this method I use one nut for each stud -- the nut is a one use only. If I can get the hub off I use a press. Of course the best way is using the proper tool: https://www.grainger.com/product/48XV31?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhfLa4sj96wIVKx-tBh1pdgNGEAQYASABEgI6X_D_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PL A&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMIhfLa4sj96wIVKx-tBh1pdgNGEAQYASABEgI6X_D_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3 !264955915808!!!g!438656176991!&gucid=N:N:PS:Paid: GGL:CSM-2295:O78QB0:20500731

[JohnK]

Thanks NAZ. I appreciate the input. My first thought was "dang, I missed the opportunity to buy a new tool!", which was immediately followed by "DANG, that's a nearly $300 tool!". Good to know they exist though, in case I ever need to do it again.

[NAZ]

John, when you knock those wheel studs out in a vice like you show in the photo, you're not supporting the flange close enough to the stud. Some studs you'll come across are going to be really stuck and require a bunch of force to get them out. In the case of a stubborn one, leaving that much space between supports will lead to bending the hub and then the rotor and wheel won't set squarely. It's much better to support the hub with a piece of round tubing (or pipe & some use a socket) with a straight cut and de-burred surface that supports the hub close to the head of the stud. If you notice on the stud extractor tool it has a similar way of supporting around the head of the stud.

This is also how to support the flange when using a press to remove studs.

[JohnK]

Thanks again NAZ. Makes sense. I guess I was lucky in that these were new hubs so nothing was rusted together and none of the lugs were stubborn. I can see how this could be a problem on stuff that's been in the elements.

[ydousurf]

In defense of FFR and the method stated in the manual. I was advised from FFR (Dave C.) regarding this step to purchase the ABN Stud Installer tool or something similar:
https://www.autobodynow.com/products...eplacement-abn

I did and they went in like butter! But NAZ's method works as well. Either way, be mindful of the threads since you can strip them easy. I used (x2) grade 5 nuts and blew the threads out of one of them. Eh, better the nut then the stud! Stupid thing was... I only bought one nut and I thought to myself as I drove away "I should've bought two of them?" - DOH! I had to go back to the hardware store!

Dj

[Jay-rod427]

I've pounded out studs in a vice before, as well as using a nut to pull the new one in. As with most things, the details are important. First, put the hub in a vice with padded jaws so that most of the hub is being supported. Then pound out each stud with a mini-sledge or dead blow hammer. Little risk of damaging a hub if you protect it like this. 4-5 blows with a mini-sledge and they come out pretty easily.

To put the new studs in, I agree that using a lug nut is a bad idea, as it will get ruined in the process. Buy a "sacrificial" grade 8 nut to use for this. Also, as Go Dad said, use a stack of washers, and grease them to reduce friction. Make sure that the ID of the washers is larger than the OD of the shoulder of the stud. You can see in the photo that the two bottom washers are different than the others. This was to accommodate the shoulder. An air impact will draw the studs in easily. If you're paying attention and stop when the stud is seated then, again, there's little real chance of damaging anything.

As Naz said IF you want to do it this way support the hub as close as possible to the stud.

If you can't get the hub off the vehicle (rear solid axle) then what do you think that hammering does to the axle bearings? What you're describing is similar to the tool you set large structural rivets with but the tool is conical shaped so it does not slip off the rivet head. I wouldn't recommend this for the R&R of wheels studs on rear axles.

You’re comparing a large powerful rivet bucking tool to a small air chisel... The tiny impacts from a small one are very little force per impact. Lots of small hits instead of a couple big hits like a hammer/sledge. I’ve done hundreds on rear axles in the housing. If you can get the stud in from the backside you can use an air chisel. Zero consequence to the bearings. If you don’t have the proper $200+ tool of course.

John, when you knock those wheel studs out in a vice like you show in the photo, you're not supporting the flange close enough to the stud. Some studs you'll come across are going to be really stuck and require a bunch of force to get them out. In the case of a stubborn one, leaving that much space between supports will lead to bending the hub and then the rotor and wheel won't set squarely. It's much better to support the hub with a piece of round tubing (or pipe & some use a socket) with a straight cut and de-burred surface that supports the hub close to the head of the stud. If you notice on the stud extractor tool it has a similar way of supporting around the head of the stud.

This is also how to support the flange when using a press to remove studs.

This again if you’re going to do it that way support it better.

In defense of FFR and the method stated in the manual. I was advised from FFR (Dave C.) regarding this step to purchase the ABN Stud Installer tool or something similar:
https://www.autobodynow.com/products...eplacement-abn

I did and they went in like butter! But NAZ's method works as well. Either way, be mindful of the threads since you can strip them easy. I used (x2) grade 5 nuts and blew the threads out of one of them. Eh, better the nut then the stud! Stupid thing was... I only bought one nut and I thought to myself as I drove away "I should've bought two of them?" - DOH! I had to go back to the hardware store!

Dj

A small improvement, but it’s not in the manual so what’s the point? Not everyone will get that insight.


Using lug nuts, washers, bearings, or low grade hardware nuts no matter how you do it puts unnecessary strain, and deformation on the threads. The threads only purpose should be holding torque to keep the wheels attached.

Air chisel method also doesn’t allow the opportunity to strip the knurls from the stud from the unnecessary rotational force. Ever tried to fix somebody else’s mess when they strip the knurls and the stud just spins? It blows when the wheel is still on and you can’t get to the stud.

Obviously everyone so far has their opinions. Just sharing mine to help someone swap theirs out who may not know any better.

[edwardb]

I've done several. I push them out in my bench vise with a short piece of pipe that fits over the head of the stud. Come out without drama. The news ones go in quite easily with a hardened washer or two, a sacrificial grade 8 nut, grease, and a 1/2" drive air impact wrench. Don't even have to put the hub in a vise. Just rest in a towel on the workbench and hold by hand while running the impact wrench. They go right in. Worst case, take them to your local machine shop and have them press them in with a hydraulic shop press. Several have posted this solution. Most cite $10 or $20 charge and done while you wait. Personally, I'm not a fan of how FF says to do it with a vise and wrench. Briefly tried that on my first one and stopped when I couldn't hold the hub in the vise without marking or damaging it. I hate seeing the abuse some put these through with hammering, banging, etc. Or an air hammer. Really not necessary.

[narly1]

For these types of hubs would there be anything wrong with using a shop press in conjunction with an impact socket sized so as to closely support the hub near the bolt?

The depth of the socket would also be important, obviously...

[NAZ]

For these types of hubs would there be anything wrong with using a shop press in conjunction with an impact socket sized so as to closely support the hub near the bolt?

The depth of the socket would also be important, obviously...

Many people do just that without an issue.

[Ducky2009]

You can purchase a wheel stud installer. Use a lug nut, impact gun and add a little grease to treads and tapered surface. This ensures you're pulling it in straight.

https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-22800-W...85252314&psc=1

[kd0wda]

I have a semi-related question I'm hoping someone can help with. I need to use longer studs because I plan to run a spacer on the rear. Rather than use the FFR supplied replacement studs I had planned to use ARP studs that were longer (ARP-100-7703, 12-20 Ford/Chrysler). However, I noticed that the head of these is slightly larger in diameter by about 0.02" (0.830" on FFR studs vs 0.850" for ARP). Can I install these as-is without fear of interference on the back side of the hub? The ones that we are instructed to remove actually have a flat spot ground out to avoid this issue. Here's a photo for clarification:

IMG_1544.jpg

If these cannot be used, do I need to go with a different hub or is there a different brand of studs I should consider? Or is it okay to grind a flat on each one as long as it doesn't get too hot and ruin the temper? How is this normally handled? I've seen photos of Mustang hubs with ARP studs that are ground flat, but cannot find these parts on their site. It appears it's done as part of the install process.

[edwardb]

I have a semi-related question I'm hoping someone can help with. I need to use longer studs because I plan to run a spacer on the rear. Rather than use the FFR supplied replacement studs I had planned to use ARP studs that were longer (ARP-100-7703, 12-20 Ford/Chrysler). However, I noticed that the head of these is slightly larger in diameter by about 0.02" (0.830" on FFR studs vs 0.850" for ARP). Can I install these as-is without fear of interference on the back side of the hub? The ones that we are instructed to remove actually have a flat spot ground out to avoid this issue. Here's a photo for clarification:

IMG_1544.jpg

If these cannot be used, do I need to go with a different hub or is there a different brand of studs I should consider? Or is it okay to grind a flat on each one as long as it doesn't get too hot and ruin the temper? How is this normally handled? I've seen photos of Mustang hubs with ARP studs that are ground flat, but cannot find these parts on their site. It appears it's done as part of the install process.

No sure what wheel spacers you're looking at. But would strongly suggest looking at this differently. Typically the much preferred hub centric spacers bolt to the existing wheel studs using nuts provided with the spacers. Then the spacers have their own new studs where you mount your wheels. Using 1-inch spacers on my Coupe build, I actually had to slightly trim the kit provided studs as opposed to finding/using longer ones.

[kd0wda]

edwardb - I've come to the same conclusion. I called ARP who said I could grind a flat on each one, but have to be very careful about introducing heat. It turns out they custom make the ones for the Ford Mustang hubs that come with them already installed. Sounds like a lot of trouble when I could use a spacer/adapter like the one you have shown (what brand is that? I also need 1").

[edwardb]

edwardb - I've come to the same conclusion. I called ARP who said I could grind a flat on each one, but have to be very careful about introducing heat. It turns out they custom make the ones for the Ford Mustang hubs that come with them already installed. Sounds like a lot of trouble when I could use a spacer/adapter like the one you have shown (what brand is that? I also need 1").

Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer Wheel Spacer Kit, 25mm (1 inch), 70.50mm diameter, 1/2-20 thread size. Very nice quality pieces. Amazon had them. Elsewhere as well.

[Bob Cowan]

For these types of hubs would there be anything wrong with using a shop press in conjunction with an impact socket sized so as to closely support the hub near the bolt?

I've done dozens of them this way. I replace the lugs on my race car every other year.

To make them extra tight, I put the lugs in the freezer over night so they shrink a little, and heat up the hub a bit so the hole is bigger. Does it help? IDK. But it makes me feel better.