Couple of questions for the GTM crowd.

[himilou]

Hi,

I've been investigating this car for a couple of weeks now seems like the ultimate vehicle, Not only does it perform but you can actually hot rod it without degrading its value ( i.e. Ferrari et all ) and it actually seems to have room to work on, unlike my RX 8 where I had to get my girlfriend to help with many tasks cause I just could not fit my hands into some of the spaces required. I went to look at a GTM in Tampa the other day but didnt even bother to ask the dealer to start it cause it was in pretty bad shape for the asking price.
I did walk away with a couple of questions that Im sure you all here can help me out with.

Are you happy with the overall fit and finish of the interior based on what Factory Five provides? I understand that being a kit the sky is of course the limit but Im wondering about the car just as supplied by FF. The one I looked at was sloppy at best, you could see inside the door, the doors didnt fit right and a lot more. I suspect the one I looked at was used for the track but the dealer said that was not the case.

How hard is it to pull the motor once the car is assembled? Asking because if I build one I'm curious to know if I can just stick a plain jane LS in the car, get the kit completed and then do some serious engine work down the road or is it so hard to pull the engine that its not worth it.

The G50 transaxles seem to be getting a little pricey and I dont know anything about the Mendeola transaxles. Are there other options that people are running that doesnt involve a major welding project to fit? Welding is one area that I just dont have any experience with.

Anyhow, damn cool cars, and hopefully I have a project in the near future!

Cheers,

James

[Ajzride]

I don’t have a GTM, but I’ve looked at several and I’m building an 818 so I’m pretty familiar with Factory Five fit and finish. The interior is pretty plain out of the box, and very “kit car-ish”. A lot of customization is necessary to get a fit that is even remotely seals against water and air, and factory levels of fit and finish will require significant cost and time. The body work is a notch below the interior, if you want decent body gaps and straight panels, plan on weeks of fiberglass work. Sealing the door glass on a GTM is a nightmare and can eat up weeks by itself.

I love the GTM, but it is a car for someone who is either okay with a “kit car” level of finish, or someone who has the time+ skill or money to upgrade it.

For an easier build you could look at the Superlite Coupe SL-C. Total cost is about the same or a little more, but it’s much less challenging if a build.

[beeman]

SL-C finished prices are $80k to $160k, or about 2x GTM. Unfinished SL-Cs are $60k+. I really like the concept and styling of the SL-C, but really you should plan on 1.5-2x the price. Plus all the components are CNCd in house so if you have a mishap you only have one supplier @ $$$. Delays to get parts can be substantial. And the aluminum monocoque can be a complete write-off whereas the GTM can be more easily repaired, but I guess that's what insurance is for. SL-C is marketed as a 'buff the gel coat and head to your local car show", but if you talk to builders it is definitely not the case.
The GTM is more of a supercar like the last Gen Ford GT, the SL-C is more of an exotic like a Ferrari.

[himilou]

I don’t have a GTM, but I’ve looked at several and I’m building an 818 so I’m pretty familiar with Factory Five fit and finish. The interior is pretty plain out of the box, and very “kit car-ish”. A lot of customization is necessary to get a fit that is even remotely seals against water and air, and factory levels of fit and finish will require significant cost and time. The body work is a notch below the interior, if you want decent body gaps and straight panels, plan on weeks of fiberglass work. Sealing the door glass on a GTM is a nightmare and can eat up weeks by itself.

I love the GTM, but it is a car for someone who is either okay with a “kit car” level of finish, or someone who has the time+ skill or money to upgrade it.

For an easier build you could look at the Superlite Coupe SL-C. Total cost is about the same or a little more, but it’s much less challenging if a build.

I get the impression that that is basically just a drop in engine and tranny and go kit. Looks alot like the Ultra kit that is made in Britain.

[dlud]

Take a look at the SL-C build logs and you'll see that they aren't, from what I can tell, a drop in the engine/transmission and go project.

The GTM engine change is not real easy. You need to separate the transmission and then pull the engine. I found that removing the intake and exhaust manifolds, alternator and water pump made life easier. Although I haven't tried to do a cam change with the engine in the car I think it would be a challenge.

There is clearly a learning curve to the GTM. If I did it again I'm sure I could cut my work time in half (or better!).

[Ajzride]

Sorry guys, I didn’t mean to turn this into a GTM vs SLC thread, I was just suggesting that if factory fit and finish were important it would be worth investigating. I love the GTM and would build one over a SLC every time. But I’m also aware of the shortcomings and I’m not scared of fiberglass work. I think it’s important to be honest about the quality of what we get from FFR.

If you are not in a hurry, the F9 is supposed to be a very high quality offering from FFR, and based on the process shown in the video blogs, it seems they are putting in the effort to get there. Also since it is front engine, transaxle won’t be a huge road block.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The stock interior can be made to look very nice....as well as the door fitment. The car you looked at......mostly it all comes down to builder time and skill. The interior and door fitment looked like crap because the builder either did not take the time or have the skill to do what needed to be done to make it right. Most of the "quality" is built into the car as you build it. If you rush thru the build or don't know what you're doing, you will end up with something that looks like a hastily built kit car. It doesn't necessarily have to cost money to make the car high quality if you are doing the work yourself. Most of the quality and fit and finish issues is just a matter of taking the time to make things right instead of rushing to "get it done".

Pulling the motor is not great fun, but in reality, probably not much more difficult that any other car. Pull the 4 hinge bolts out that hold the hatch on, remove the hatch and the engine bay is pretty wide open. Yes, you will need to pull the transaxle out of the back of the car to pull the engine.

[RF RIDER]

best idea I have seen is make the X brace over the trans removable.
Shane, you should make something for that.

[crash]

best idea I have seen is make the X brace over the trans removable.
Shane, you should make something for that.

Two significant things we did on the FFR PDG GTM race car were 1) make the X brace removable, and 2) cut the body just behind the rear firewall so that the rear bodywork section can come off and facilitate access to all the rear bits.

Pretty much a requirement on a dedicated race car because of how often we service engines and transaxles.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

best idea I have seen is make the X brace over the trans removable.
Shane, you should make something for that.

I it were 10 years ago, I would probably try to come up with something. As of now, I'm not sure that there would be enough demand to justify the effort....

[beeman]

Really, if you are able to cut metal and weld, which would be required anyways to install a system sold by Shane, you are 90% of the way to just making your own removable x-brace...

[dlud]

I thought about it but I'm not sure having a removable x brace gets you very far. If it would allow you to pull the engine with the transmission attached it might make sense but it doesn't appear to me that removing the x brace would get you there.
I wondered whether having the lower x brace (the one below the transmission) and the front engine frame mounts removable wouldn't allow you to drop the engine and transmission from beneath the car.

[himilou]

Yes a removable x brace would be a great kit build modification as from looking it seems like access to motor and transmission would be greatly improved.

[Jkviper]

James,

I happen to be building an SLC and one of my favorite build videos is fasthings on YouTube. If you haven’t seen it, you will get a very good appreciation for the things that need extra attention on the GTM. All doable to a high standard just like on the SLC. In my opinion whatever car you choose to build, having the proper expectations is the most important thing.