Words of Wis-Dumb: Working with Fiberglass and Prep for Paint

[LCD Gauges]

I've done a few different key-word searches to learn the process of getting from A - Z with respect to preparing the body for primer and paint.

Nothing specific returns when searching for, "Fiberglass prep", "Body Work", "Sanding Fiberglass". So this thread is dedicated to all of the new
builders (like myself) who have little - to no experience with body work.

This post will be edited periodically to update the information. These recommendations come from members of this board. They all have their
strengths, and nobody's method should be taken as 'the golden rule'.

Safety
The pores in your skin open when you have a warm shower allowing the glass particles you just spend the day creating with your sandpaper to enter creating a seemingly incessant itchiness. Take a cold shower, the pores won't open and the fiberglass dust will wash away more readily. Proper breathing protection is important, you can't shower to wash the particles out of your lungs and I can't imagine how itchy it would feel inside your lungs.

And always practice safety when working this. You don't just cough this stuff up. Use the filter bags on your shopvac and suck up the fg dust/particles as you cut/grind/sand them if you can. Fans also help to push the dust out of your work space as you go. If you're working in an attached garage (as I am) take it all into the drive way. Your family will appreciate it.

Tips
When drilling fiberglass, start with a bit that is a few sizes smaller than the desired diameter. The 'glass tends to fray and split, so
working your way up from a smaller hole tends to leave a cleaner edge.

Use gloves at all times, or you'll be scratching and washing your hands for hours afterward. Also be sure to wear some sort of
filter over your nose and mouth. There's no need to ingest that crap.

Work in a circular motion and use little pressure when filing, or sanding. The 'glass eats away quickly and you'll end up with a
bite/valley in the immediate section almost instantly.

Measure twice, cut once. Rework and filling is a pain. I've already nicked through the front side of the light bucket (mine are
hollow which makes it easy for the drill bit to skip through).
Use similar product brand materials, do mix manufacturers if possible
Work on area of the car, don’t jump around.
Get the alignment done before trying to align the body work
Pin the rear of the car first and work toward the front
Do a dry run of everything you need to do before you do it for real with mixed goo. It will pay dividends down the road. You can always grind something off and then remake it with fiberglass

Most obvious tip (but a darn good one), was to use a stiff rubber block for sanding all your seams, soft ones sand on either side of what you are trying to sand.
Once you make the cut or drill that hole, you can not un-cut or un-drill that hole. When the body is laid up as one piece, and you remove part of that piece, there is no way to replace it. Yes, you can take fiberglass and resin and make patches and repairs, but:

1. They will NEVER be as strong as the original part because you are essentially just gluing the patch onto the existing surface. Laying new fiberglass over cured fiberglass does not make it one piece of fiberglass. It will forever be 2 pieces.....glued together by whatever bond strength the resin has.

2. You will never get back to the dimensions of the original part. I've had lots of doors come in on customers cars that the owner has already cut holes in and tried to install the doors. Once you cut the opening out for the latch hole, you can not make it smaller again, or move it over a little, etc. That material is gone. If you find that you cut the hole in the wrong place, and you need to adjust it to the point where the bolts that hold the latch to the fg door are....well, now hanging out in space where there used to be fiberglass.......well, it's not going to be pretty.......and new doors are $800 IIRC.


Great body work requires attention to detail and patience and lots of practice. If this is the first car you have done then take your time and don't create more work for yourself. Maybe offer free labor at a body shop in exchange for a little knowledge and experience.
one more thing that is huge, glass is real touchy to contaminants(sp), clean surface good first, then do not touch the raw glass once it's ready for the repair, I have seen even just the oil from our skin mess up a repair. I have fixed lots of old vettes, it is supriseing how clean you must keep the raw glass.

Materials
Another valuble supply is 3m 8115.

I ordered the Durablok kit, three(3) rolls of adhesive backed sand paper (80, 120 220 grit), an .8gal of Rage lightweight filler. I also have a gallon of resin, a gallon of reinforced filler, a bag of fg cloth, 3 bags of fg mat (3m from the home depot) and graduated cups, paint sticks, spreaders, cheap brushes and a fg roller. I

Dura Technologies, Duratec Gray Surface Primer 707-002

Evercoat Non-Clog Light Weight Filler

Technique
There is a pot life to epoxy so you do need to move (“apply fairly quick”) but don't rush it.

Check out some of the boatbuilding threads on other forums to learn their technique.

Keep your cuts on the safe side. You can easily cut it long, and then test fit and cut again or file-to-fit. You can NOT easily cut short and then make it longer again. Do not guess on where you're going to make your cuts and drill your holes. Take all the time you need to be sure that the hole you drill or the cut you make is exactly where you want it. One-shot-deal.


I am using the 80grit is used to knock down the flash and do the initial blocking of the gel coat (I have only completed the flash over the rear tires and RH front tire, saving it for after I finish all of the major stuff). I will use the 120grit to block after applying filler to the low spots. The sand paper(summit brand) is 48 times better than the auto parts of the shelf stuff. I've used the same 80grit piece on my long block to knock down the mold flash over the rear fenders and the RH side hood and it’s still like a fresh piece of sand paper. HTHs get you started.
I use Lite Weight products for body fillers. I prefer the "No Clog" but one of the pros I am using likes the Z-Grip. I find the No Clog sands much easier, but the Z Grip goes on and spreads very nicely. Niether ones adheres to wood as well as Bondo or 3M body filler, so I use those where I have wood in place of fiberglass to form a shape for mold making. The Lite Weight fillers are about half the cost of Bondo when you get it by the case from a body shop supplier.

I'm using a high fill primer that is catalized with MEKP. Nasty stuff, same as is used as a catalyst in resins, but is supposed to dry really quickly.


This is one of the better "how to" videos I've found. Unfortunately, there's a bit of bad language in this clip, but I think it's
interesting (from a beginner stand point):

[LCD Gauges]

Cry...nobody likes my creative thread title! "Whiz-Dumb" might have been funnier (an oxymoron yet)

Hoping some of the big-guns will respond (hint) like, Crash, VRaptor, and more from Big V!

I really don't want to hack this body work. It's a do-it-yourself project, but I'll be damned if this car will have a $2 body prep
and nasty paint job with imperfections.

Maybe paying someone is the only way to get the showcar finish?! I'm already feeling the crunch on my forecasted budget. $10K remains
to buy a transaxle, clutch, headers, starter, various donor parts and then paint?

I think $42K was a low-ball estimate

[Presto51]

"Cry...nobody likes my creative thread title! "Whiz-Dumb" might have been funnier (an oxymoron yet)"

Maybe we're still groaning over the title

What do you want to know??

Ron

[LCD Gauges]

Just some of the essentials:

- proper tools (spray gun, blocks for sanding, sandpaper grit for specific stages)

- suggestions for materials (filler, primer, paint)

- An out line of the entire process (in point form). IE: when to wet sand, how long to let the filler harden, number of paint layers/clear coat layers. Time between drying, etc.

[Kalstar]

Your title reminds be of a trip to an out of town Red Robin last month,

Took my 7 year old son in to take leak. The bath had two stalls and two uranals, you know the ones the stretch nearly to the floor, well anyway when we walked in there, there was a boy about my sons age with a military style short cropped haircut, looked liked a squared away young man in there all by himself. He raced over to take a piss, well about half way through I guess he thought it was hard work because he leaned forward resting his head against the inside of the urinal. When we left he was fevorishly washing his hands, I did not have the heart to tell him he should wash his head too.

I would say that, fits whiz-dumb pretty well.

[Presto51]

PM Sent

[VD2021]

Cry...nobody likes my creative thread title! "Whiz-Dumb" might have been funnier (an oxymoron yet)

Hoping some of the big-guns will respond (hint) like, Crash, VRaptor, and more from Big V!

I really don't want to hack this body work. It's a do-it-yourself project, but I'll be damned if this car will have a $2 body prep
and nasty paint job with imperfections.

Maybe paying someone is the only way to get the showcar finish?! I'm already feeling the crunch on my forecasted budget. $10K remains
to buy a transaxle, clutch, headers, starter, various donor parts and then paint?

I think $42K was a low-ball estimate

patience young padawan........

I have a lot of info. The majority of it is from your "big-guns" and I've gathered a lot of "hands-on" experience of the last few months working with Tom. I need to review the info so I can be of help. Just keep in mind I am not a body Guy and am learning.

To get you started here are a few items.

Body work supplies and tools.
I ordered the Durablok kit, three(3) rolls of adhesive backed sand paper (80, 120 220 grit), an .8gal of Rage lightweight filler. I also have a gallon of resin, a gallon of reinforced filler, a bag of fg cloth, 3 bags of fg mat (3m from the home depot) and graduated cups, paint sticks, spreaders, cheap brushes and a fg roller. I am using the 80grit is used to knock down the flash and do the initial blocking of the gel coat (I have only completed the flash over the rear tires and RH front tire, saving it for after I finish all of the major stuff). I will use the 120grit to block after applying filler to the low spots. The sand paper(summit brand) is 48 times better than the auto parts of the shelf stuff. I've used the same 80grit piece on my long block to knock down the mold flash over the rear fenders and the RH side hood and it’s still like a fresh piece of sand paper. HTHs get you started.

I can tell you that the body work on the GTM (unless you're a body guy) is by-far the most time consuming and attention to detail requiring part of the build. It took me about five months to get to go-kart stage. That was on an 8-16 hour+/- per week schedule. Even with the extensive wiring I did. I've been working on the body since midsummer and am hoping to have paint on it by late spring and that's with Tom's help. Of course a builder (I) could block the seams and body, make the windows go up/down, call it all "good enough" and them paint it. But I came to the conclusion that I didn't want the body work and paint to take away from what’s underneath. Because as we all know; if a GTM has had great body work and paint we all call it a great build, regardless of what’s going on underneath.

There are so many items on the body that require attention if you want a good fit and finish. Wheel wells, hood, doors, windows, hatch and the list goes on. Yeah, the Gen2 has nice fg cloth in the body now and some items are not as bad, but there are still a lot of issues.

And always practice safety when working this. You don't just cough this stuff up. Use the filter bags on your shopvac and suck up the fg dust/particles as you cut/grind/sand them if you can. Fans also help to push the dust out of your work space as you go. If you're working in an attached garage (as I am) take it all into the drive way. Your family will appreciate it.

[artistwantab]

I have not done body work on a GTM but have restored a number of cars over the years.

Great body work requires attention to detail and patience and lots of practice. If this is the first car you have done then take your time and don't create more work for yourself. Maybe offer free labor at a body shop in exchange for a little knowledge and experience.

[crash]

I'll be the first one to tell you that I am anything but a good body guy.

I get things close and call in the pros.

As with just about anything, I see it as worth my while to know my limitations and to pay someone more skilled than I to do a job. Especially when it's not one I particularly enjoy.

That said, I do all the roughing of the body, like filling holes, gluing panels together, rough flaring in of seams, etc, but then let the pros make it "perfect".

I use Lite Weight products for body fillers. I prefer the "No Clog" but one of the pros I am using likes the Z-Grip. I find the No Clog sands much easier, but the Z Grip goes on and spreads very nicely. Niether ones adheres to wood as well as Bondo or 3M body filler, so I use those where I have wood in place of fiberglass to form a shape for mold making. The Lite Weight fillers are about half the cost of Bondo when you get it by the case from a body shop supplier.

I'm using a high fill primer that is catalized with MEKP. Nasty stuff, same as is used as a catalyst in resins, but is supposed to dry really quickly. Haven't shot any yet, but I'm getting close.

[The Stig]

I'm not sure if you've gone there or not, but the ffcars forum has a section call "Ask Street Rod Painter". It is full of great information about all aspects of working the FFR bodies.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/33-ask-street-rod-painter/

We need something similar here, but it would take some time to build up the same amount of info that already exists there.

[fastthings]

I would not let that guy work on my car (the guy in the video). I don't want to bash anyone, even that guy. I will say this, he did not repair those cracks, he covered them up for a different day, probably less than 6 months down the road. I hope that car was not a paying costumer, because they got ripped off.

[LCD Gauges]

Now, this is more like it! I've already got a better handle on materials and tools just from these few posts.
Thanks to all that replied and anyone else that will jump in.

Crash, I haven't seen anyone tear apart a car (any car) like you have. If you're not the pro around here, I don't know
who would be!

Stig, I don't totally understand the conflict between both boards, but I tend to find this more of a family atmosphere. I've
met several people from this forum in person, and talked to many on the phone. This is where I normally go for information
and to try and help out where I can. By starting this thread, we can complile the information over time and make it just as
informative.

My plan is to video each step of the learning process and share for all the new builders that want to give it a shot.

Fastthings: if you don't mind, please elaborate on what the man is doing wrong in the video. What will the issue(s) be
as a result of his process/technique?

[fastthings]

I don't mind, but I can't type, so it takes me to long, and I don't want to start any pissin match.

I will never pretend to be able to teach someone how to do bodywork over the key board.

The repair video basicly is showing how to remove stress cracks, all he did was smear mud over the top of the cracks. He should have ground the cracks all the way out. It should have shown an erea
with all paint removed around the repair spot, cracks should have been ground all the way gone, that may have left you with a hole all the way through the glass, some of those cracks will go all the way through.

the void should have been filled with resin and matt, grind it down just enough to leave room for filler. At that point you can use a skim coat of mud(bondo), then a skim coat of a evercoat,(a different kind of filler that is made to blend onto paint or gelcoat. Bondo will stick to anything, but is not made to go over paint.

I could go on and on but I want to go tackle my door glass, one more thing that is huge, glass is real touchy to contaminants(sp), clean surface good first, then do not touch the raw glass once it's ready for the repair, I have seen even just the oil from our skin mess up a repair. I have fixed lots of old vettes, it is supriseing how clean you must keep the raw glass.

lets start with that,

Gene

[The Stig]

Now, this is more like it! I've already got a better handle on materials and tools just from these few posts.
Thanks to all that replied and anyone else that will jump in.

Stig, I don't totally understand the conflict between both boards, but I tend to find this more of a family atmosphere. I've
met several people from this forum in person, and talked to many on the phone. This is where I normally go for information
and to try and help out where I can. By starting this thread, we can complile the information over time and make it just as
informative.

I don't want to change the direction of this post, as I feel that this forum needs a thread that specifically addresses this topic.

With that said, I agree with you 100%! This board has much more friendly atmosphere, Thanks mostly to Dave Smith and the Charter that he and the Moderators set forth from the very start. I respect the people here, because they go out of their way to show respect to others. I spend very little time on the other side, even though there are still a lot of very good people there as well. It's a shame how a hand full of people can ruin things for so many others.

[Kalstar]

I would have to slightly disagree, I belong to many forums. I would say both of the Factory Five forums are leaps and bounds above others I visit. In the other forums, there there is profanity, rudeness, know it alls or extreme distrust. Both of our sites are a great group, there is no one that I would not want to meet personally. The help and admiration shown is refreshing to say the least. (sorry for the hijack).

[crash]

Crash, I haven't seen anyone tear apart a car (any car) like you have. If you're not the pro around here, I don't know
who would be!

As you may know, I am fond of videos, and on my video for body work that is in the works, I will explain that it is easy to cut something apart. It is yet another thing entirely to put the pieces back together again and have everything come out, not only looking "right" but being right. Many bodywork issues are easy to do, but there are a good many "tricks" that only years of experience can gain you. I want to give insight to some of those, but IMHO, a body work guy is an artist. Every artist has his own interpretation of what is "right", so while I have two very seasoned pros working on the details of mine, it certainly doesn't mean that it is the "only way to skin a cat".

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I don't have a ton of time available to go into too much here. What I will say is this. When working with fiberglass, pretty much every single hole you drill and cut you make is a "one-shot-deal". You do NOT have a chance for re-do's on things. Once you make the cut or drill that hole, you can not un-cut or un-drill that hole. When the body is laid up as one piece, and you remove part of that piece, there is no way to replace it. Yes, you can take fiberglass and resin and make patches and repairs, but:

1. They will NEVER be as strong as the original part because you are essentially just gluing the patch onto the existing surface. Laying new fiberglass over cured fiberglass does not make it one piece of fiberglass. It will forever be 2 pieces.....glued together by whatever bond strength the resin has.

2. You will never get back to the dimensions of the original part. I've had lots of doors come in on customers cars that the owner has already cut holes in and tried to install the doors. Once you cut the opening out for the latch hole, you can not make it smaller again, or move it over a little, etc. That material is gone. If you find that you cut the hole in the wrong place, and you need to adjust it to the point where the bolts that hold the latch to the fg door are....well, now hanging out in space where there used to be fiberglass.......well, it's not going to be pretty.......and new doors are $800 IIRC.

So keep your cuts on the safe side. You can easily cut it long, and then test fit and cut again or file-to-fit. You can NOT easily cut short and then make it longer again. Do not guess on where you're going to make your cuts and drill your holes. Take all the time you need to be sure that the hole you drill or the cut you make is exactly where you want it. One-shot-deal.

[crash]

Great observation Shane.

That said, it should be noted that while I have cut my body into 35 pieces at this point, I am NOT going to simply glue them back togehter, body filler it, and go. I am using the original GTM body as a base for a race car body. The pieces I put back together will form a plug so that a mold can be made in order to make a one piece part. My GTMR body will be in at least six different pieces. Hood, doors, center section, tail, and diffuser.This is one of the reasons it is taking me so long to do the body. I want it right because I am going to make more than one body from this project and I can either take my time and make it right before I pull a mold, or be tearing my hair out "fixing" things later. Do it once, do it right!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

This is one of the reasons it is taking me so long to do the body. I want it right because I am going to make more than one body from this project and I can either take my time and make it right before I pull a mold, or be tearing my hair out "fixing" things later. Do it once, do it right!

You mean you don't want to have to fix the same things over and over and over again because of flaws in the way the parts are molded? That sounds like a new concept to me...... I wish others had the same idea.........

[VD2021]

Tino,
Another valuble supply is 3m 8115.

[artistwantab]

I don't have a ton of time available to go into too much here. What I will say is this. When working with fiberglass, pretty much every single hole you drill and cut you make is a "one-shot-deal". You do NOT have a chance for re-do's on things. Once you make the cut or drill that hole, you can not un-cut or un-drill that hole. When the body is laid up as one piece, and you remove part of that piece, there is no way to replace it. Yes, you can take fiberglass and resin and make patches and repairs, but:

1. They will NEVER be as strong as the original part because you are essentially just gluing the patch onto the existing surface. Laying new fiberglass over cured fiberglass does not make it one piece of fiberglass. It will forever be 2 pieces.....glued together by whatever bond strength the resin has.

2. You will never get back to the dimensions of the original part. I've had lots of doors come in on customers cars that the owner has already cut holes in and tried to install the doors. Once you cut the opening out for the latch hole, you can not make it smaller again, or move it over a little, etc. That material is gone. If you find that you cut the hole in the wrong place, and you need to adjust it to the point where the bolts that hold the latch to the fg door are....well, now hanging out in space where there used to be fiberglass.......well, it's not going to be pretty.......and new doors are $800 IIRC.

So keep your cuts on the safe side. You can easily cut it long, and then test fit and cut again or file-to-fit. You can NOT easily cut short and then make it longer again. Do not guess on where you're going to make your cuts and drill your holes. Take all the time you need to be sure that the hole you drill or the cut you make is exactly where you want it. One-shot-deal.

Shane,

Can you recommend any how-to videos for working with fiberglass? I have built hot rods for the past 20 years but it has always been metal work and I am curious how my body work skills will transfer to fiberglass. I have already started to accumulate some fiberglass parts to do some practice tests before working on the GTM.

[LCD Gauges]

There are some good people in this world. I have to give a shout out to all the big guns that repsonded, as well as Ron who called me long distance to talk about
body work. I never connected with him until this thread; he doesn't owe me a thing, but he took the time to help. Awesome.

Crash, what's your view on the diffuser: is it functional on the street, or only necessary for higher speeds (IE: 100 MPH+).

(I just hijacked my own thread. oops)

[crash]

If you search "diffuser" on the other forum, there is a dissertation by me on the subject, but basically the diffuser, as mounted by FFR in the original design, IMHO, does not do much, if anything, and the higher speed stuff, where you would really need it, it will be ineffective. Again, IMHO, putting louvers into the diffuser and getting more airflow through the engine compartment is probably the best thing you can do with the standard diffuser. I think Shane may sell a kit for this?

Here's some pics of the products I use. Sorry, titles are reversed. Primer = Body Filler and Body Filler = Primer.

[posthaste]

I laughed when I saw the face attached to the video, that fellow has one of the best vids I have ever seen, the one about repairing stress cracks in fiberglass. He's real unique, and nothing pretentious about him, but no joke, the man taught me how to repair a stress crack.

Most obvious tip (but a darn good one), was to use a stiff rubber block for sanding all your seams, soft ones sand on either side of what you are trying to sand.
Gen1 seams I'm lookin at you!

After reading a thread about why most ppl sell their GTM, it seemed to me the majority felt they didn't think about a few areas when building and the fit and finish was not quite oem feel, and they felt they'd like another crack at it.
So in light of that, we're just going to tackle everything we can, but get a pro to help keep the fit and finish in line with what we want.
There's no shame in saying "I don't have the expertise to do this job, I need a pro."
The shame would be in being bullheaded about it and having less then the result you wished for
Chris
(Igor to gtm#12's owner)

[crash]

Chris,

I think your attitude is exactly right. I think the biggest thing that needs to be "put out there" is maybe some tips by people like Shane, or even a professional body man, maybe one of the sponsors of this forum? that tells us laymen what NOT to do that will potentially cause EXTRA work. A lot of stuff we can do ourselves, but the last thing we want to do, at least speaking for myself, is to do something that ends up costing me a ton down the road because I didn't understand what I was doing.

I'm in the enviable position that all I need to do is get my body to where the shape is right, as opposed to being able to take the stresses of continual motion. I can tell you that I would be much more hesitent to do the sorts of things I am doing if I was going to have to glue the pieces back together and actually use the finished product as a car body.

Long story short, IMHO there really is only one way to properly modify a fiberglass body extensively, and that is to make molds and pull a new, one piece body.

This is certainly not something most will want to do, so my suggestion is to keep the mods under control and, as Shane said, avoid making any more cuts or holes than you have to.

I am working right now on video of how to use body filler over both foam and over resin/fiberglass "repairs". Again, I'm no pro, but am doing these things with the guidance of the pros.

[RonSchofield]

I have learned a lot from talking to people who know more than I do. Because of this, I have done extensive mods to my coupe. I counted the other night and I am up to 22 molds and expect to finish with about 27 molds to make the changes I wanted to my coupe. I have learned a lot and have started to put some of the information on my blog. I would love to make a full new body mold with all the changes that I have made, but that isn't realistic. So under the guidance of those who know more than me, and trial and error on which products to use, I have learned a lot and hopefully my body will stay in one piece. With proper prep, proper materials, and proper techniques, I don't have the fear that I had when I first starting using bodywork. One nice thing is that with proper support, the Factory Five bodies are not in stress. Only time will tell if I succeeded in doing everything right. So far everything is as I hoped. Here are some pics of my changes.

New Rear Fenders / Recess for Billet Fuel Door



New Rear Spoiler / Hatch Lock Recess / Recessed License Plate



Side Scoops



These are just on the body. I have also made:

Hood Side Vents
"A" Pillars
New Doors
Center Console
Dash

With many other things.

If you are interested, you can check out the following:

http://www.mycoupe.ca/search.php?que...wall&andor=AND

[Sailor]

Cold shower.
It's true. I'm from the boatbuilding world (as you may have guessed from my online name) and I've done my fair (pardon the pun) share of work with "frozen snot" (google that one). The pores in your skin open when you have a warm shower allowing the glass particles you just spend the day creating with your sandpaper to enter creating a seemingly incessant itchiness. Take a cold shower, the pores won't open and the fiberglass dust will wash away more readily. Proper breathing protection is important, you can't shower to wash the particles out of your lungs and I can't imagine how itchy it would feel inside your lungs.
Take your time. There is a pot life to epoxy so you do need to move but don't rush it. Do a dry run of everything you need to do before you do it for real with mixed goo. It will pay dividends down the road. You can always grind something off and then remake it with fiberglass

lastly, check out some of the boatbuilding threads. There are a whole lot of people with a ton of fiberglassing experience who build boats. www.woodenboat.com/forum is a place that I frequent and there are enough people building boats that have fiberglass sheathings on them or have other fiberglass related questions and the threads there are filled with answers. It's a common substance in the boating world.
I can't help with fairing the surface to a show car perfection I don't think. I know how we do it in the boat building world but I don't know if it's the same with a car. I imagine it's not too different. We use a "longboard" or "torture board". It's a thin flexible board say 3 inches wide to which a strip of sandpaper 3 inches wide by the length of the board (mine is about 30 inches long) is attached. I staple it to a wooden block mounted on either end of the board.

I hope that worked. If not, it's the 2nd picture on post number 32 of my build thread on the WBF: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...dbird-Progress

Hope that works for everyone. If you have any other questions, let me know. I'm pressed for time right now but that's the gyst of it. Good luck with it all everyone.
Daniel

[crash]

Funny. One of the guys that is working on my project was the head mold maker for Ultra Custom Boats for a number of years before they went BK.

I have to agree. Boat makers have more FG experience than just about anyone else.

Your coupe mods look really good, but I don't know how you can say that the body won't be under stress. EVERY vehicle body is under stress due to the motion of the vehicle. Some bodies are under more stress than others, but ALL of them have to deal with movement and a certain amount of flexing.

[RonSchofield]

Funny. One of the guys that is working on my project was the head mold maker for Ultra Custom Boats for a number of years before they went BK.

I have to agree. Boat makers have more FG experience than just about anyone else.

Your coupe mods look really good, but I don't know how you can say that the body won't be under stress. EVERY vehicle body is under stress due to the motion of the vehicle. Some bodies are under more stress than others, but ALL of them have to deal with movement and a certain amount of flexing.

The stress on the body for Factory Five cars is much less than would be a boat or a car that relies on the fiberglass as part of the interior. With the strength of the Factory Five frames, there is minimal stress. I should have said it won't be under stress like other fiberglass projects.

Ron

[VD2021]

Tino,
I just sent you an email.

[LCD Gauges]

Thanks everyone. I'm going through all the notes and info from the phone calls. I'll update this thread and also edit the first post so that all
data is easily accessed instead of sifting through all of the posts.

[LCD Gauges]

Please note: I've updated the first post with comments from all users for an easy access, one post look-up.

There is some info collected from phone calls and PM's so have another look.

I still have more data to cut and paste; I'll update you ... as I update me!

[mmaragos]

I have found quite a few tips on fiberglass fabrication at this website, http://www.fiberglassforums.com/. There are very interesting builds, many are in the "Automotive Exterior" subforum, including a redesign of an MR2. They have a lot of ideas for scratch build / one-offs.

[MTSCustoms]

I come from an automotive electronics/custom car audio background so here are my tips for working with fiberglass:

-I like to take 2 inch brushes and cut them down to about 3/4" length so that the bristles are not flimsy, then use the brush to poke the mat or cloth as opposed to spreading outwards. This will prevent the mat fibers from standing straight up, and will help to take all the bubbles out.

-make sure to use the proper amount of hardener when mixing the resin, as too much will result in your resin becoming jelly in a matter of minutes, and too little will prevent your glass from hardening at all and you will be left with useless Matt covered in resin that won't harden.

-USE GLOVES AND LONG SLEEVES AND DO NOT USE HOT WATER AFTERWARDS! I cannot stress this enough, but fiberglass particles will ruin the lives of anything in their path with itchiness and irritation.

Good luck
-Scott

[VD2021]

I like using the roller for a bubble-less application of fg. When I use a brush it creates a vacuum on its way out which pulls air in making it harder and take longer to get the air out. I've found it also forced me to use more resin than I do with the roller. What I want to see is total translucence with mat and close to the same with cloth. If its not translucent there is air in it.

On the hardener amount. I like to use about half of what is suggested on the container. You could go even less if you want a longer working time and/or are working a large or difficult area. You want time to saturate the mat/cloth, apply it and roll out all of the air. You can then hit it with the heat gun to speed up the process from there. But if you add to much it will gel and become waist. If this is before you've had the opportunity to complete all of the steps you also now have a sub-par lay of material.

[crash]

Really depends upon ambient temp. I increased MEKP amount substantially last night as opposed to what I did during the day-almost double- and STILL had to IR lamp the last layup I did to get it to cure. IMHO knowing the correct amount of hardner to use in relation to base material is somewhat of an art form and you won't really get a feel for it until doing it ALOT in varying conditions and with varying products. I think, given the choice, I would err on the side of slightly too little, as you suggest Vidal. At least that way, as long as you have enough to actually get the reaction done, you can always force it with an outside heat source.

[fastthings]

I remember one time in the hot summer day, I mixed a batch of glass. I'm always in a hurry while at work, so I mix the stuff pretty hot as a rule. Anyway it ws mixed in a paint can, after I was done I turned around and the left over stuff in the paint was smoking. Yes, it had kicked so fast it litraly was smoking hot.

[RonSchofield]

I just finished my 10th or 11th gallon of vinyl ester working on my coupe. I have made 23 molds. The biggest tip I can give is that you use a good quality vinyl ester. On my 3rd or 4th gallon, my supplier couldn't get the one I was using and I purchased it. I am very detailed when mixing and use a scale to measure. With that poor quality resin, I had a couple batches in that gallon that never cured and I had others that smoked because it was too hot. Both times I measured them and had the different problems that people have mentioned. I have never had a single mix go wrong with the quality resin that I use no matter if in the winter or summer. I use Vipel FO10-TBN-28 Vinyl Ester Resin.

I am starting to put a list of stuff and techniques on my blog site.

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/AMS/ar...php?storyid=32

[LCD Gauges]

Bumping this thread (I meant to update this one instead!)

I'm just about to tackle the next stage of body work, so I thought I'd share the tools that I'll be using. Now that the flashing has been filed down (I used a medium coarse steel file), I'll be attempting to blend the seams with the curves of the body.


I'll be purchasing a sanding block (rubber backing) for the task, and using this sanding tool which also has a rubber backing:
Attachment 8910Attachment 8911

The next couple of days will be spent reading this forum, and watching some videos on fiberglass prep. I'll be researching which types of products to use for filler, prime,
paint, etc.

I'll try to keep detailed photos of each step so that new members, and novice bodyworkers (like myself) can feel more comfortable carving up their cars! One of the first
spots to fix up will be the hood. My car wont have any louvers installed, and I don't plan to cut large holes for the mesh. Alternate ideas are on the table for getting the
air/pressure out of the radiator area.

The first pass of block sanding and filler will target the headlights, and the parting lines around the nose of hood. Wish me luck, and please feel free to leave more links/tips!
Attachment 8912

[crash]

One of the first things I would invest in is an inline air sander. It makes shaping and getting things straight MUCH easier.