Here is the staircase on my 70s tract home. There was carpet here and treads are in so-so shape. The stringers are surprisingly relatively flat and level. The plan is to use 1" thick solid oak treads.
I would like the stairs to be a solid as possible and not squeak. The question is:
Is it best to replace the 1/2" plywood for each of the steps before installing the 1" oak treads
Or is it best to attach the 1" steps directly to the stringers?
Videos on YouTube show it both ways. It might make sense that a double layer of wood would be the sturdiest, but then again, there are more moving parts so it might make it worse.
The treads will be secured with Loctite PL Premium and brad nails.
Last edited by NiceGuyEddie; 01-23-2023 at 02:28 PM.
I did something similar to my home about 10yrs ago, but my treads were already 2x10 lumber, and were reasonably consistent and level. Since the 2x10s were crowned from drying out, I used construction adhesive underneath the "big-box-store" hardwood treads to accommodate not being 100% flat. I did end up applying poplar plywood to the risers ...20230123_160312.jpg
Craig C
Edit: I used screws on the treads hidden under the poplar plywood risers; no other fastening in front other than the construction adhesive...then finish nails on the risers.
A basic characteristic of stair geometry is consistent riser height. Any deviation can cause tripping or stumbling. Most often eight inches is riser height. Your platform complicates that.
It seems to me adding 1.0 to 0.5 will not be consistent at the platform or the upper floor.
One inch treads are structural enough. Brads are not recommended. Aesthetically, screws from the underneath is best, if you can.
jim
The previous carpet was pretty thick. On the landing I plan for Pergo oak hardwood floors just like the rest of the house. I will add a 1/4" thick layer of plywood if needed so the landing is the same thickness as the stair treads. The trick is to figure out if I will use the treads only or new 1/2" plywood plus the new stair treads.
No chance of screwing from the bottom, the 2nd half of the stairs is unaccessible.
The previous carpet was pretty thick. On the landing I plan for Pergo oak hardwood floors just like the rest of the house. I will add a 1/4" thick layer of plywood if needed so the landing is the same thickness as the stair treads. The trick is to figure out if I will use the treads only or new 1/2" plywood plus the new stair treads.
No chance of screwing from the bottom, the 2nd half of the stairs is unaccessible.
With no lower access, I would use screws from above in counterbores with wood plugs hiding the screw heads.
jim
J R's point about consistent stringer height is spot on. I think if you're going to install hardwood, you should do it on top of the plywood. While I don't have first hand knowledge of stair construction, I do know that hardwood floors are installed on top of plywood subflooring (as is the case in my home). Hardwood floor boards are generally nailed to something. I believe you need the plywood.
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Hardwood treads are typically installed directly on the stringers. I have always had my crews use PL400 adhesive on the stringers followed by face nailing with 2" finish nails. Plug the holes with wood putty, sand and apply at least 3 coats of poly finish. By IRC which is the code in most states, the difference between risers (stair height) cannot exceed 1/4" (some states have modified this to 1/8") and typically the overall height cannot exceed 7-1/2" on new construction. Existing construction can exceed the code riser height. There are stair treads that are 1/2" thick with a 1" nosing made to install over existing plywood as is your case. I would still use the adhesive and fully nail into place.
I agree with what others have said: the 1st tread height at each floor will dictate the direction you choose. It must be consistent for the rest of the treads. Good Luck. I spent months agonizing about my approach...
Very difficult decision here. I've pulled up six steps, and the stringers are more level than I could have ever imagined.
The new 1" stair treads are about the same thickness as the old carpet and padding. The landing will be the Pergo, so I'll have to put down 1/2 of plywood before the pergo for a total of 1"
If I decide to first put plywood down on the steps, I'd have to add 1" of plywood on the landing.
Definitely agreed that the height of the first step dictates the rest and the math works out well.
One thing I did not mention which makes the project more complicated is my risers aren't vertical. It looks like 21 years ago I did a great job with this zig-zag molding. The reason for the gap between the bottom of the molding and the wood is to make up for the thickness of the old carpet. I wanted the molding in the whole house to be the same "height" throughout.
Anyway, I've found that the risers are usually 1/4", so my choice is either 1" risers (more money) or make spacers on the face of the stringers to make up for the gap.
I'll also need to figure out the angle to cut the top and bottom of the risers.
If for some reason anyone is still interested, it's coming along very nicely. I sistered new uprights to have vertical risers. It took a very, very long time to get this all set up but the steps themselves are going in quickly.
Pocket screws help hold the risers, the bottom of the riser is screwed into the back of the stair treads. So far there is not one visible nail head.
The steps are fitting with no gaps at all. The risers and exterior skirt board has little to no gaps so far. It's possible with some wood filler & sanding I won't need any exterior trim.
That Loctite PL is soft and pliable but dries HARD AS A ROCK.
Under the stairs, I took the liberty of making a cubby hole for my a/v equipment. There is a leprechaun door in the pantry to get to the wiring.
This whole thing is nerve-wracking because wood is incredibly expensive and just one mistake can cost $40, 50, or even $70.
Whether you are doing stairs or not, here is an interesting video showing the 5° beveled edges in key locations to hold the glue:
Damn Eddie, that is looking sweet. Meant to comment sooner. That is a really tough project if you've never done it before, but it really looks great.
Rick
Mk4 with Mr. Bruce FIA body, 331 w/ Speedmaster Stack Injection, Full Width Roll Bar with high brake lights by i.e.427, IRS, ABS, PS, PB, FAST FI, First start 3/30/20, First go-kart 7/5/20, paint by Ken Pike
Circa early 2000s, it was said that one could build a donor-based Factory Five Roadster in 250 hours. My stair project is 200 hours in and I've finally finished the woodwork and I moved onto staining and painting.
The KREG track saw is by far the best tool I've ever used in my entire life. If only I knew about this sooner! Dead straight, accurate, cut-on-the-line splinter-less cuts. Hundreds of cuts in, including several hundred inches of 1" thick, rock-hard oak and the blade still cuts perfectly. The dust collection bag also works very well. I never did this thing where you cut on the sacrificial foam-board - worked very well!
It took me a few weeks and about a half-dozen stains to match my Pergo-brand / hardwood flooring. I'm two coats in, two more to go, then a matte finish to match the existing flooring almost exactly.
After that the trim and risers will be white like the molding in the rest of my house.
Under-stair cubby hole for the A/V equipment, leprechaun door in the closet to get to it, and also the TV will hang on the wall. I can't wait to get rid of my TV stand and this will essentially make the room about 3' wider.
the house is really, REALLY crooked and this was tough to do. The steps are rock-hard and there is no squeaking of any kind.
Total cost for everything is about $2,100 for materials. Carpet would have been $1,700
Last edited by NiceGuyEddie; 04-18-2023 at 11:27 AM.
There is currently no plan for railings or bannisters. The metal ones that came with the house are stored away. I'll put them up if I get old or sell the house, whichever comes first!
I forgot to mention there are no nail heads in the steps. Most everything is secured from behind/underneath with pocket screws and Loctite PL. That Loctite PL is great stuff, it's soft so it squishes around when pressing things in, but it cures rock hard.
Done. Everything came out pretty much 100% perfect. Everything square, level, and with no gaps. No squeaks or creaks. Everything secured from the underside with pocket screws and other types of screws. All distances to each step is the same, including from the 1st floor Pergo to the 1st step of 1" oak. Total cost was $1,200 including the cubby hole for the AV equipment and the "cantilevered" articulating TV bracket. According to my spreadsheet, this took me 186 hours.
My favorite part, aside from it being rock solid, is how well I was able to match the stain on the raw Red Oak treads to the existing Pergo floor called Cambridge Abbey Oak. Even the sheen is about the same.
The 1" bull-nosed oak treads were about $42 each. The risers were really expensive - the math was not in my favor by height so I would up buying 10-1/2" x 8' select pine boards and cutting them down. (Did not want knots popping out in 5 years.) That may have been a whopping $30 for each step.
If I had to do it over, I would have cut three (3) new stringers for each staircase and set them the minimum height above the old stringers.
I am really glad I discovered that YouTube video that explained the 5° beveled edges that help with the glue, and I only wish I discovered the joys of a quality track saw years ago.
Last edited by NiceGuyEddie; 06-28-2023 at 07:45 PM.
Congrats dude! This project came out fantastic. Everything you've done on your home has been impressive!
Rick
Mk4 with Mr. Bruce FIA body, 331 w/ Speedmaster Stack Injection, Full Width Roll Bar with high brake lights by i.e.427, IRS, ABS, PS, PB, FAST FI, First start 3/30/20, First go-kart 7/5/20, paint by Ken Pike
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Originally Posted by NiceGuyEddie
