New toy in the Greek Guys Garage

[JohnK]

So I did a thing...

I've been meaning to learn to weld for a long time. I have a crazy idea for a next project (Mercedes 190SL body on a custom roadster shop chassis ) which will involve a LOT of welding so I guess it's finally time to learn how to weld. I just picked up this beast of a machine. AC/DC MIG and TIG, pulsed MIG and pulsed TIG, Al MIG without a spool gun... way more machine than I'll ever need but actually less expensive than the Miller multiprocess machine. Now I just need to get a tank of gas and some scrap metal and the sparks will start flying. I've purchased and read this excellent book already but am thinking of doing a couple of semesters at a local community college to learn MIG and TIG welding properly.

Trying to learn everything this machine can do all at once sounds like a terrible idea so I'm going to focus initially on MIG welding mild steel plate and sheet metal. I'll start off with short arc welding with C25 gas and then move to pulsed MIG spray transfer with C10. That should probably cover 90% of what I need to be able to do. Then I'll try to tackle the TIG side.

Those of you out there that know how to weld, what are your top tips for those new to welding? I've watched about a million YT videos already but always love to hear from the seasoned pros.

[egchewy79]

this is next on my "to do" list.
I bought an old truck that'll need some metal restoration.

[Alan_C]

So I did a thing...

I've been meaning to learn to weld for a long time. I have a crazy idea for a next project (Mercedes 190SL body on a custom roadster shop chassis ) which will involve a LOT of welding so I guess it's finally time to learn how to weld. I just picked up this beast of a machine. AC/DC MIG and TIG, pulsed MIG and pulsed TIG, Al MIG without a spool gun... way more machine than I'll ever need but actually less expensive than the Miller multiprocess machine. Now I just need to get a tank of gas and some scrap metal and the sparks will start flying. I've purchased and read this excellent book already but am thinking of doing a couple of semesters at a local community college to learn MIG and TIG welding properly.

Trying to learn everything this machine can do all at once sounds like a terrible idea so I'm going to focus initially on MIG welding mild steel plate and sheet metal. I'll start off with short arc welding with C25 gas and then move to pulsed MIG spray transfer with C10. That should probably cover 90% of what I need to be able to do. Then I'll try to tackle the TIG side.

Those of you out there that know how to weld, what are your top tips for those new to welding? I've watched about a million YT videos already but always love to hear from the seasoned pros.

In 2016 I bought a 70 Mustang Mach 1 as a follow on project to my MK4. The car is being done in a Pro Touring style with upgraded everything including a 2nd Gen Coyote and 6R80 AT. It was soon apparent that I could not do what I wanted to do and not be able to weld. In 2017 I bought a ESAB Rebel 215c Multi-process welder. The welding classes at our local JC were too expensive as I was not resident in the area long enough to be consider a resident to the college. I wasn't going to drop another $1K to take two classes and maybe in a year feel proficient enough to work on the car. So I turned to YouTube and found the local metals supplier had a scrap bin where metal was charged by the pound. I took the metals thickness gauge that came with the welder and grabbed a bunch of metal from 3/16" down to 20 gauge. I bought a welding cart from HF, obtained my MIG shielding gas bottle and started experimenting. I had tried the flux core before getting the gas, a waist of time IMO.
It takes a while to get used to the settings and the operation of the machine. In my case I found that I did not move fast enough to avoid too much build up. The ESAB wants to do everything for you from a couple of simple settings, unfortunately you cannot set wire feed speed independently. The best I could do was choose the fillet thickness which in effect slowed the rate the wire was fed and the rest is practice. A lot of my initial work on the car involved plug welding. Pretty easy stuff that you get good at quickly. As you go you will branch off into other welding needs. The most difficult welding is with thinner and dissimilar thickness metals. Butt welding 20 sheet metal can be a PITA. It takes time, patience, and the right settings on the machine. Yes you will blow some holes, but it is all fixable and then you know what not to do.
The best recommendations I can make to improve your welding is, unless you are young, light up the area brightly and use a GOOD welding helmet. I got a decent 3M welding helmet bundled with the welder. Seeing the puddle was a challenge even with the best of light. I then bought a Miller ClearLight helmet and the difference was surprisingly good. These helmets are not cheap, but of late the prices have started moving down closer to where I purchased 3 years ago.
Learning to weld is a valuable skill not just for your car projects but there is always something around the house that breaks that can be repaired easily with the welder. The welding left to do on my car is minimal now that I am in the body and paint cycle. Eventually I will get gas for TIG and work on my skills there. The TIG welds are cooler than MIG and are preferred when doing thin sheet metal in the 19 to 21 gauge range. I just wasn't ready to switch.
Your project sounds like a fun and challenging one, good luck. Kindigit Design uses a lot of the chassis from the Roadster Shop. Little to do to the chassis itself, but the fab for the floor panels and such is considerable. I hope you have a lot of other metal forming tools or plan to acquire them.
https://store.cyberweld.com/products...iABEgL9APD_BwE

[weendoggy]

That floor isn't going to look like that for long after you start welding, unless its poured rock polished concrete. Even then, it'll leave a mark.

[JohnK]

Thanks guys!

Alan - yes, I agree that having a good welding hood is everything. I've done a couple of one-day clinics locally and the hoods they had in the class were terrible and I couldn't see anything. I spent what felt like an eternity researching good welding hoods. I ended up going with the Optrel Crystal 2.0. But the Miller Digital Infinity and the Lincoln Viking also seem to get great reviews. I'm very lucky that there's a community college near me that offers welding classes at roughly $90 per class. Including one-time enrollment fees two semesters (one MIG and one TIG) would cost me <$250 which seems like a steal. Your suggestion to just go get a bunch of scrap metal and practice a bunch is exactly what I plan to do initially. The book I mentioned above has a lot of practice exercises in it that I will work through. As far as metal fab goes, I'm pretty limited on shop space so I will have to be pretty selective on how much metal fab equipment I pick up. I'd love to have an English wheel, power hammer, shrinker/stretcher, box and pan brake, stomp shear, on and on... but a lot of that stuff can be done by hand. Just takes more time. I've been watching a lot of this guy's videos on YouTube. He's an incredible fabricator and has all the tools but a lot of his videos focus on how the DYIer can do the same things without the big equipment. I think there's no way around getting a bead roller for fabricating floor pans so that will probably be my first metal fab purchase, but I'm getting ahead of myself. At this point I'm still trying to decide if my plan is doable or completely bat-**** crazy for a home builder.

Kevin - thanks for the heads up! I will definitely pick up a few welding blankets to lay down on the floor and cover up anything I don't want scarred up.

[Alan_C]

I don't know about Bat Sh.. Crazy, but still you would be going into untraveled waters. When I took on my Mustang restoration/restomod, I dove into the deep end pretty quick. I am into the build 2x what I spent on my MK4 with more to go. On the other hand, when done I will have a Boss 302 Tribute unlike anything I have seen out there. A lot of the upgrades were driven by how well the MK4 drove. Even though the Mustang is bigger and heavier, I still wanted great handling, braking, accelerating, and on and on. I started before RS offered their chassis for the first gen Mustangs. In hind sight, the full chassis would have been a better route but too late.
We do what we want and I am OK with that. I know there is a market for well done Coyote swapped Mustangs, some drawing well above $100K. I believe I could recover my investment if needed. Your project falls into more of a niche and you will have to decide if the investment is worth it.
After watching Dave Kindig build his CF1 Corvette tributes I started wondering what it would cost to build something similar. Dave charges over $400K starting for a CF1, that's a lot of cash. I thought a similar recreation of a 63 split window would be an interesting project. You can buy a RS chassis, full reproduction body, LS engine and transmission for under $100K. I believe you could build a car near equal to the CF1 for 1/3 his cost. Alas, way too much for me, but if you want something unique and satisfying, you don't need to spend $400K either.

[cc2Arider]

Hi John,

I took a Community College course on "Introduction to Welding", and the follow-on course dedicated to TIG welding. It is a somewhat perishable skill, so keep at it!

I'd recommend learning like I did: start off with a stick welder because you don't have to worry so much about settings. Instead, you learn about arc length and how that impacts heat. You learn to feed the electrode as it is consumed. You learn about orienting it as you travel. You learn about the proper electrode type for the welding you will undertake. It's kinda like the 12ga of the welding types -- very versatile with the right electrodes.

After you get somewhat proficient with that, MIG will seem like a piece of cake!!!

Good Luck!

Craig C

[JohnK]

I don't know about Bat Sh.. Crazy, but still you would be going into untraveled waters.

You make lots of good points. The main one I'm weighing is does this make sense financially. I know we all like to say that we build cars because they're a passion, not to make money, but the reality is that most of us will eventually end up selling whatever it is we build, if only to move on to the next project. In most cases we don't turn a profit but it would be nice to get most of the investment back. In the case of the 190SL, there's a pretty clear-cut market for high quality original restorations. A decent donor can be had for $50K-$60K on BaT, and nicely restored cars are selling for $200K - $250K. So there's definitely room to recoup the investment. A restomod 190SL, no matter how nice or how tricked-out, will likely only fetch about a third of that. So my idea sounds like a ton of fun and a blast to drive... and a huge money pit. Hence the "is this a bat-**** crazy idea". Still debating...

One way or another, I still want to learn to weld, as it opens up a universe of prospective projects that are just completely impractical if I have to pay someone to do all the metal work.

[cob427sc]

learned to weld when I was in High School on an old stick welder. Can't tell you how many times I melted the rod when it stuck to the steel! About 20 years ago I bought my first MIG and never looked back, actually gave away the stick machine as I never use it. Learning on the MIG should go relatively quick although I find that if I don't use it often I start to lose my touch, especially on thin body panels. You'll be surprised how quick you pick it up! I'm in the middle of building a 1959 Bugeye Sprite, installing a 63 Oldsmobile aluminum V8 and a TKO 5 speed. Just finished over 150 hours of cutting out rotted panels, etc., and welding in new. Good luck on your project.

[Jacob McCrea]

I can't say I'm a pro but I have been welding for a good long time now and have learned a few things. There is more I don't know than what I do. That said, here are a few comments:

1. As noted above a good helmet will help a lot. I've always welded with marginal helmets. They have held me back, especially with tig welding. The next one will be a good one, or so I tell myself.
2. I never cease to be amazed by how much a weldment bends from the heat of the weld and the shrinkage when it cools. I try to get the fit-up as tight as possible and tack the structure at multiple opposing points to control it. Same thing with the finish welding - try to weld in such a way that the forces will counteract each other as the weldment cools.
3. Brake cleaner creates mustard gas when burned. As tempting as it is, don't use it to clean the metal. I like acetone but there may be a better chemical. In any event keep the can on a separate bench!
4. Remove mill scale prior to welding if what you are welding matters. I'll weld over it if I'm making a grate or something similarly inconsequential. Otherwise it gets removed.
5. Have separate cutoff wheels, grinding wheels, files, etc. for mild steel, stainless, AL and whatever else you may be welding.

It's an incredibly useful skill to have. I have fixed a lot of cars and made a lot of useful items over the years, which paid for the machines many times over. The latest was this stand for an old ski lift chair, which will be a swing set in our Salt Lake City back yard. Good luck!

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[JohnK]

Thank you! Great tips. Re: #3, this reminds me of one of the many videos I watched recently, the "Top 5 ways to die while welding at home." Cleaning your parts with brake cleaner before welding and accidentally creating Phosgene gas is on his list, as is welding with a can of WD-40 on the table (big fireball) and welding with a cigarette lighter in your pocket (another big fire ball). He also has a sequel of another 5 ways to die welding. Somewhere on that list is welding galvanized metal without a respirator, and all sorts of other goodies. Some of these are obvious (like don't have a big can of compressed flammable stuff right next to where you're generating a ton of super-hot flying metal slag balls) and others I would not have known without someone pointing them out.

[Alan_C]

Always good reminders for us amateurs.

[cob427sc]

These ideas remind me of another--- almost --- bad situation. In High School I picked up a surplus 28 volt generator that I thought I would convert to a welder. I got help from a family friend who happened to be the superintendent of the local power company. We wired up a couple of rotary regulators, grabbed a 5 gallon jerry can and through a rubber hose into it for fuel. Fired up the generator and my knowledgeable friend spun the first regulator wide open. It immediately shorted the second regulator down stream showering sparks everywhere including the nearly full 5 gallon can of gas. The can started woofing flames out the top. My friend ran for the door followed by me. Luckily, my father grabbed a fire extingusiher and shoved it into the gas can while also shutting down the generator. That was the end of my project. Took my saved up bucks and went and bought a Lincoln stick machine.