Rebostar MK4 Build in Gaston Oregon

[Rebostar]

Greetings All,
Im starting this build thread now 16 days prior to my kit completeion date as I have an engine, transmission assembly, and rear axle assembly to build. That is to say, I have a 1969 351W block machined .060 over, and large pile of boxes from Summit. I'm told by Scat that my pistons will arrive there tomorrow, and once they complete the balance they'll ship the 418ci rotating assemly to me. I should have it here in Oregon late next week.
I have another pile of boxes that contain a new TKX 5 speed, SBF bellhousing, clutch pressure plate and throwout bearing and minor parts to bolt to the aformentioned SBF. My other small but growing pile of boxes is my Quick Performance Ford 9 inch rear end assembly set up to install as a direct bolt in replacement for an 8.8.
I'm just wrapping up the last of the metal fab on my 1957 Studebaker Silver Hawk, then its on the back burner for a year or so.
I'll be building the MK4 body buck early next week.
I think I qualify as having officaily started the build as the wife and I (mostly the wife) picked out the eventual paint color at the PPG paint store today. Its a 2020 Ford metalic mix called "Son of a Gun Grey". That will be complimented by Vivid Black stripes.

I'll try to get something posted daily unless the complaints get to loud. I generaly start in the shop at 7 am, then start looking for a soft horizontal surface about 1 or 2pm.
Stay tuned, "more will be revealed".
Rebostar

[F500guy]

Sounds good and I look forward to meeting up with you soon!

lance

[Rebostar]

I see that folks have tended to list the Kit Options. Not knowing what the protocal is I guess I'll do the same. I placed the order on January 15, 2024 for a complete kit with options as follows:
# 351W Mounts
# TKX w/ clutch cable
# 351W Headers
# base 4 into 1 side exhaust
# 4 Link w/ arms
# Manual steering rack
# Vinyl seats
# R & L Chrome roll bar with grommets
# Wood Steering wheel
# Carbon Fiber Dash
# Oil cooler
# Front sway bar
# Inside door pads
# Wind wings
# Trunk gas strut kit
# Over riders
# Seat track kit
# Assembled side louver kit
# Body cut outs

I know the first think folks will want to ask is why I got the 4 link. Answer: I've used the triangutated 4 link in a couple of my builds and they work well and are easy to set up and adjust, in addition the all in cost for the complete Quick Performance Ford 9 inch rear axle assembly including center section with Motive 350 gears, trac-loc,31 pline axles, 11 inch rear brakes with E brake delivered to my door was $2600. It is set up to install as a direct replacement for any 8.8 axle from an 87 to 93 Mustang. And it was 2.5K less than the all in price of the 3 link and 3.5k less than the IRS.
About the cable clutch. The only hydraulic clutch vehicle I've ever driven is my 2018 Mustang GT w/ Roush Stage II 750 HP Supercharger. I've hated the "feel" of the clutch since I drove it off the lot new. I like to feel the clutch engage/disengage with my left foot, not the seat of my pants. So just a personal prefrence. Also the manual rack as opposed to the power rack, Its a feel thing, I know there is a price to pay in the parking lot, but in the twisties I like the feel of the wheel with the manual steering.

I encourage any comments or questions. Please feel free.

Rebostar "more will be revealed"

[Mike.Bray]

You should really reconsider the manual rack. I'm the same, everything I had ever built had manual steering until this car. But the issue here isn't the feel, it's being able to dial in more castor so the car is more stable. Like a lot more stable. If you do a search on this forum you'll find lots of posts on manual vs. power steering with most like me becoming converts and believers.

Adding only a front sway bar is going to really upset the handling, you're better off without it. The 4 link isn't so great either, again there are posts here that detail the downside of 4 links in these cars.

The cable clutch is fine, just use a genuine Ford cable and not the cheap one that comes from FFR. World of difference.

Looking forward to watching your build!

Mike

[Rebostar]

Mike
Thanks for the heads up on the power steering. I did think it over quite a bit and decided it would be an upgradable item. I installed a power rack on my Helix Mustang II front suspension system I installed on my 47 Merc Coupe. The handling was much improved over the mouse trap contraption Mercury installed in 1947. On the Cobra I was concerned about the power steering pump interfering with the steering shaft. I've done a couple CVF front accessory upgrades and the CVF supplied pump hangs quite a bit off to the left side. I may do the swap after driving it awhile if the pump fits. I had to shim out a 29 Chevy Pick up front axle quite a bit to get the thing to track. Had almost no castor to start. Couple of wedges fixed it. I did not know there was no castor adjustment in the MK 4. I read somewhere here that there was ample castor/camber, so did not think it would be an issue. Too late now. The manual rack is on its way. But like I said I can change it later.

On the sway bar I fully intend to install a rear anti-sway bar as well. I'll have to fab up the frame mounts, but I've done it a few times before. (not on a Cobra though!)

Thanks for the heads up on the clutch Cable, I'll check Summit as soon as I finish this post.

Rebostar

[Rebostar]

OK, I'm a believer! Last night I stayed up researching the whole manual vs power steering. I get the need for caster at higher speeds for tracking and stability. The info concerning the two caster settings from the build manual changed my mind. The power steering caster setting is 7* the manual is 3*. The 7* caster will track better the faster you go. If I set the manual steering caster at 7* It will be very hard to steer at low speeds. So I get the theory. I'm wondering why FFR offers the manual rack at all. 3* for a grocery getter would be fine making a run to the auto parts store. If you want to drive 85 to keep up with local interstate traffic you will want the 7*. If you plan to race at all, the 7* would be essential. So again why offer the manual rack?

There will be major issues to address to get a power steering pump installed. There is a cascading series of unintended concequences which I will address in a new post.
Rebostar

[Jeff Kleiner]

Power steering and also add the FFR proprietary spindles. Trust me, these two item will be some of the best money you spend.

Jeff

[Rebostar]

Jeff
I got the FFR spindles that come with the complete kit. Is there another "proprietary spindle I dont know about?

[Rebostar]

First "build" update:

Cleaned all horizontal surfaces in the shop today in antisipation of storing the MK4 parts. Put the large pile of engine parts on the bench ready for engine assembly. Recieved the cam berings today so next up will be installing the cam and oil gallery plugs (threaded). Still waiting on Scat for the rotating assembly. (next week)

Put away all the Studebaker parts till next year.

Built the body buck today.

Off to Pheonix in the morning. See y'all next week.

Rebostar

[Rebostar]

Great news
Stewart Transport called on the 14th to tell me they planed to pick up my kit three days early! Was due to be completed on the 24th. ST says they plan to have it here in Oregon by the end of the month! Two weeks ahead of shcedule!

FR & ST Rock!

Rebostar

[Rebostar]

Great news. I called FFR today and my kit was loaded on the truck. I'm #6 of 8 on the delivery list. I'm near Portland OR so I'll see it at the end of the month! Yea!

[Rebostar]

Did a photo posting search on google and found the "how to" So now we'll see if it works. First up is the body buck body buck.jpg

[Rebostar]

It worked!!
So body buck done. next was cleaning and removing all the casting "flash" from the timing cover and installing a new seal timing cover.jpg

[Rebostar]

As promised I tapped all the oil gallery plugs to install threaded plugs. Installed new brass freeze plugs as well.cam 2.jpg Then installed the cam bearings. I have to wait for the Scatt Rotating Assy to arrive (next week) to cam 1.jpgmake sure the rod bolts will clear the bottom of the cylinder walls. I've done this exact stroker up grade from Scatt on a 69 351W (C9E) and there was .200 clearance, so I'm figuring the same here, but I can wait a week just in case I need to clearance it.cam 3.jpg

[Rebostar]

Just picked out my avatar. In case anyone is interested this is my 1970 Mercury Cougar.20200515_113416_resized (1).jpg I did a complete rotiserie restoration on it including swapping out the 351W for a 1964 427FE backed by a C6. The real definition of "Fast & Loud".20200115_114817_resized (1).jpg

[1969Camaro]

I read in the post from Jeff to Rebostar about getting the power steering and FFR proprietary spindles, is that a different part not included in the kit?

[Rebostar]

I read in the post from Jeff to Rebostar about getting the power steering and FFR proprietary spindles, is that a different part not included in the kit?

1969 Camaro.
I talked with a tech at FFR about the spindles. The discission was concerning the front brake attachments. I was told that the spindles supplied with the complete kit will fit any brakes, bearings, or hubs, that would fit an 86 to 93 Mustang with a 5 lug set up. There may be s slight difference from the Ford produced donor spindles. If you ordered the complete kit like I did you'll get the right stuff!

If you get up towards the Portland area. Give a shout out and swing by the shop here in Gaston.

Rebostar

[Jeff Kleiner]

1969 Camaro.
I talked with a tech at FFR about the spindles. The discission was concerning the front brake attachments. I was told that the spindles supplied with the complete kit will fit any brakes, bearings, or hubs, that would fit an 86 to 93 Mustang with a 5 lug set up.

You were given incorrect information. The FFR proprietary spindles that are part of the complete kit are incompatible with the 1993 and earlier brakes, rotors and bearings. They use sealed 1994 and up bearings and rotors along with 2 piston PBR (actually aftermarket PBR generic) calipers.

Jeff

[Rebostar]

Jeff
That really bums me out. I talked with Dan at FFR specifcly about using Wilwood brakes (P/N 140-11018-DR) on the kit supplied spindles. He told me they would work if they fit the 87 to 93 five lug spindles. The tech at Wilwood said these brakes would work on them as well.

The brakes will be here on Tuesday, The Kit arrives on the 29th so we shall find out soon enough!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff
That really bums me out. I talked with Dan at FFR specifcly about using Wilwood brakes (P/N 140-11018-DR) on the kit supplied spindles. He told me they would work if they fit the 87 to 93 five lug spindles. The tech at Wilwood said these brakes would work on them as well.

The brakes will be here on Tuesday, The Kit arrives on the 29th so we shall find out soon enough!

The Wilwood 140-11018-DR fits Fox Mustang '87-93 spindles.

https://www.wilwood.com/brakekits/Br...o=140-11018-DR

You told us earlier:

I got the FFR spindles that come with the complete kit.

As I said in my previous reply the FFR spindles are designed to use 1999 and later Mustang components (hubs, bearings, rotors, calipers). That Wilwood kit is not gonna' work with the FFR complete kit spindles because THEY ARE NOT THE SAME as '87-93 spindles.

Sorry

Jeff

[Rebostar]

The Wilwood 140-11018-DR fits Fox Mustang '87-93 spindles.

https://www.wilwood.com/brakekits/Br...o=140-11018-DR

You told us earlier:


As I said in my previous reply the FFR spindles are designed to use 1999 and later Mustang components (hubs, bearings, rotors, calipers). That Wilwood kit is not gonna' work with the FFR complete kit spindles because THEY ARE NOT THE SAME as '87-93 spindles.

Sorry

Jeff

Jeff
Once again you are correct. Seems I was given bad info. I had an hour long chat with Dan at FFR mostly about manual/power steering. We did however discuss front and rear brakes. My notes confirm the brake packages I could upgrade to would have to fit the earlier 5 lug 87 to 93 Mustangs. After reading your above posts and a bit of research shows the earlier spindles are tapered and have a different hub than the 94 to 04 spindles. This kinda bums me out as I thought I had done my due diligence in asking FFR and Wilwood about fitment. I did not know the spindles changed after 93. Nothing I could find published by FFR states that the base kit 84 to 94 donor car spindles are different than the complete kit 94 to 04 spindles. I guess its just one of those thing you figure out by getting the wrong parts first.

[Rebostar]

Great news, The Fox Body 84-93 Wilwood brakes I ordered are now on their way back to Summit and the correct brakes P/N WIL-140-12048-DR will be shipped to me in the morning. That new P/N was given to me from Dan (who also told me the 84-93's would fit) at FFR for the Wilwood big brake upgrade for the MK4. In addition Summit lists only the Factory Five Cobra as the "application" for this kit and they sell them a bit cheaper than Wilwood. So...disaster averted, Thanks for the heads up Jeff!

On another note, the polished 17" American Racing Halibrands (427) arrived today. They look great. Vintage wheels sells the same wheels as FFR but I wanted the polished wheels not the grey painted ones FFR sells.

Counting down the hours, kit should arrive later this week.

Rebostar

[Rebostar]

Happy Sunday Folks,
The kit arrived at 5:30pm on Friday. Mark had a long day with snow and rain, but he made it.Delivery.jpg Took us about an hour all in till he left. I spent all day s
Saturday and half of Sunday to complete the invantory. The only thinks missing were as follows:

All of Box 13 containing both Chrome roll bars.
Chrome Side Mirror
Assembled Side Louvers
2 ea. 1/4-20 Button Head Screws

All in all a pretty good job by FFR. Only the side mirror and 2 screws were marked as packed but missing. The Chrome Roll Bars and Louvers were back ordered. I had not planed to use the FFR mirror. Going with the Breeze units. But I paid for it and will use it on another build somewhere down the road.

Tomorrow I'll mark and remove all the chassis aluminum. I'll put the frame on the 2 post lift and get it level and secured the start the mods that will require welding.

I'll post again when I'm done with the mods and have the chassis prepped, primed and painted.

Rebostar

Onn Saturday F500guy (aka Lance) stopped by to help remove the body off the chassis and set it up on the body buck. Thanks and kudo's Lance!

[F500guy]

Great to visit, looking at your fleet of cars, I am sure this will be quite a nice build!

[Rebostar]

Got a lot done in two days.
After checking out a lot of the different battery locations I decided to go with 520 Speedworks trunk location. Greg was kind enough to supply me with pics. Below is the last two days work. DSC02827.JPG DSC02828.JPG DSC02829.JPGDSC02830.JPG

[Rebostar]

More battery and drop trunk frameworkDSC02832.JPGDSC02833.JPGDSC02834.JPGDSC02835.JPGDSC02836.JPG

[Rebostar]

Having finished the battery box framework, I needed to make a battery box to secure the battery to the framework. That was today's activities. DSC02837.JPGDSC02838.JPGDSC02839.JPGDSC02840.JPGDSC02841.JPG

[Rebostar]

Todays activities was to fabricate and install a new .125 thick 2024 T3 Aircraft aluminum firewall. I used a 2"x2" 1/8" steel angle overlaped on the 2" square beam by 3/8". A one inch weld every 4 inches top and bottom. Then installed three 90' supports underneath for added support. I drilled two 1.250 holes to route the two wire harnesses striaght down, rather than coming out of the firewall. DSC02843.JPGDSC02844.JPGDSC02845.JPGDSC02846.JPG

[Fman]

Nice work opening that dash area up, you will definitely appreciate the extra real estate when you begin wiring! Never seen anyone mount the battery in that location, always something new coming with the build of these cars

[Rebostar]

Fman
Thanks for the kudos. I have to give credit to Greg at 520 Speedworks for the battery location idea. I made a few improvments but its mostly his idea. In my last two builds (not MK4) I put the battery off to one side in the trunk.DSC02118.JPGDSC02809.jpg

[Rebostar]

Today's festivities include redesigning the upper radiator attachment. I found this on You Tube and liked the idea. I removed the two 3/4 short FFR mounts, installed a 1.5"x 1/8 peice of steel under the cross tube in the place of the short mount blocks. I drilled 5 holes to accept the McMaster Carr 3/4" x 3/4" shock mounts. Test fitted the radiator and it fits perfect. I ordered an additional Brake Resivior and made and welded on a bracket to mount the pair.
DSC02852.JPGDSC02851.JPGDSC02850.JPGDSC02849.JPGDSC02848.JPG

[Rebostar]

Only a half day today. Its Sunday and I'm gonna watch golf and the race. So todays work accomplished the following: I decided to use the FFR overflow tank because I'm concidering using an FE Expansion tank and I did not want to spend the $$$ on the Canton 2 qt tank and I wont need it if I use the FE Tank. However in order to make sure it would be forward of the altinator I moved it forward from the manual installation and then it blocked off the area where the right brake line clip gets attached. So I fabbed up a weld on clip, welded it to the lower tank mount, then did the same for the left side.
DSC02854.JPGDSC02853.JPGDSC02855.JPG

[Rebostar]

I decided (and the wife agrees) that there should be an "oh crap" handle below the glove box. I had ordered the CF Dash so I mocked it up to see if there was room for steel reinforcement. There is! So now we have a steel plate weled to the 2"x 2" crossmember to attach the grab bar to. Its just got 1/4" pilot holes now. I'll fab up a nice handle that will match the rest of the cockpit down the road. DSC02856.JPGDSC02857.JPGDSC02858.JPG

I did not want my braided brake lines attached to the chassis with a couple aluminum pop rivets, so I made a couple more clips for the rear brakes so I could weld them on.DSC02859.JPGDSC02860.JPG I lowered them from the FFR position as I plan to route a 3" duct hose to cool the footboxes through that space. There will be two duct inlets in the cubbie leading to a pair of 3" bilge blowers ducted down to a 1"x4" duct running alongside the seats to vent the footboxes. Pics will follow when I do the sheetmetal.

[Rebostar]

Today was a good day. After reading some good advice from some of the above posts, I decided to go with a power steering sytem. I have a 351W stroker. I have the CVF Pulley system and the Saginaw pump would interfere with the steering shaft. So I wont be using the CVF power steering. I did not want to use the late model pump converted to vee belt. SOLUTION= Epowersteering.com. Lance showed me his Electronic Power Steering System and I am sold. I aquired the Epowersteering kit for the MK4. I spent today mocking up the steering rack and shaft so I could intigrate the new electric power assist unit. The instructions were pretty easy to follow. I did add an additional support running from the 4" tube to the supplied attach bracket system. I did not want a 15lb motor assembly bouncing up and down being supported by a thin walled 3/4 tube. Then I mounted the brain box within easy reach of the existing electrical pigtail. Then I broke it all down and put it all away leaving only the weled on support brackets.
DSC02862.JPGDSC02863.JPGDSC02864.JPG

[Rebostar]

Been busy getting my 47 Merc Coupe into the Portland Roadster Show. It is up on display so
I have a free day to finish the welding. I see the late model solid axle calls for a cross over line to the right rear brakes. I decided not to route it back by the fuel tank. I crossed it over behind the 2x3 frame. This reqired 4 clips to be welded in.DSC02867.JPGDSC02868.JPG

[Rebostar]

Next up was to mount the radiator lower mount. I used the breeze system with a 3/8" SS threaded rod inside a 1/2" square tube with six 2" heater hose sections for padding. VERY Importand!!! do not mount horns untill the radiator is mounted! Ask me why I know this! I made a really nice bracket, welded it in the approximate place the pic in the manual shows it. It wont fit there. I had to cut it out, make a new one and install it closer to the front by about 2". All is well now.DSC02870.JPGDSC02871.JPGDSC02872.JPGDSC02873.JPG


This should do it for the planned mods that require welding. So next up will be cleaning up all the factory welds and fitting and drilling all the sheet metal panels. All really boring stuff so no pics or posts till that done.
Allyn

[F500guy]

Now you are really making me look like slacker! Nice touches being able to do all that ahead of time.

[Rebostar]

Lance, Thanks for the compliment. I have a lot of catching up to do. I'll be pre drilling and fitting all the aluminum panels for the next few days. That way I can prime them all together. Then the exterior facing panels will get sprayed with tintable "Raptor" undercoating you turned me on to. All the engine bay facing panels will be painted Summit "Platnium Silver Metalic". Then its clean, prime and paint the chassis frame Summit "Carbon Fiber Grey Metalic".
Allyn

[Rebostar]

After reading the post from AA-ron andut a diferent way to vent the foot box I decided to do a similar duct. Rather than put the vent blower behind the seat I'll have the intakes in the cubby.
In the course of pre fitting and drilling all my aluminum panels I decided to see if venting the footbox from air intakes located in the cubby would work. Seems it will. Rather than make 1x4 rectangle ducts, I only need one side and a way to attach it and make the side and back walls the "outside" of the duct. So I spent the day doing origami! First I had to make sure everything would clear the rear end. So I had to mock up the rear axle and place the wheels to see what room there is. I wont have the drivers side and back wall permenently installed for a while. I will unravel my origami ducts and make .025 2024 T3 ducts and have them ready for when I rivit all the panels on. Below are the results.

DSC02879.JPGDSC02874.JPGDSC02877.JPGDSC02875.JPGDSC02878.JPG

[Rebostar]

In continuing to pre-fit and drill all the aluminum panels, when I got to the drivers inner footbox wall it was time to make some changes as long as I was fitting it. Seems it was no big deal, I just made two cuts and bent out the flap. Then made the filler parts out of paper and transfered to aluminum. Then fit it all togeather. Making one of the bends in the long part required the use of a fine tipping die on my bead roller but the part came out great. Also I moved the firewall forward just under two inches. I had to trim and bend the upper footbox peices to accomedate the new firwall position.

DSC02880.JPGDSC02881.JPGDSC02883.JPGDSC02882.JPG