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Thread: Twin Turbo Installation

  1. #1
    el Camino Rapido jtpayne's Avatar
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    Red face Twin Turbo Installation

    Has anyone out there done a twin turbo installation in a Type 65 Coupe? It appears to me that there is plenty of real estate for the hardware and the plumbing. I'm seriously considering it. I could use any advice and recommendations for turbo kit manufacturers or companies to avoid.

    Like the car's not fast enough already..................

    Thanks!

    Jeff

  2. #2
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    Jeff,
    I recall seeing a picture of a single turbo Coupe, perhaps even a twin turbo Coupe, on the other forum. I also recall that the turbo was mounted very close to the bottom of the hood, and someone pointed out that the heat from the turbo was going to be problematic due to the proximity to the hood. I'd imagine this varies quite a bit across the different kits, but I have no knowledge beyond that.

    For what it's worth, if vertical clearance is a problem, I'd look at the Aviaid Daytona Coupe pans. At 6.5" deep - as opposed to 7" to 8" for most other pans - they will let you cut down/reweld the engine mounts a fair bit without the pan sticking below the frame rails. Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Trick Tool Maker, Super Moderator Hankl's Avatar
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    Jeff,

    One of the Spyder builders used a GN V6 with Twin Turbos. As Jake said, heat was a real problem, he had been warned several times about that being a problem,
    and he continued with the build, and then *****ed about it Ad nauseam.

    Hank
    “If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
    Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  4. #4
    Wouldn't underhood heat be just as much a problem as a turbocharged roadster?

    Any who... I haven't done a turbo kit on my car, yet.... But am in the process of collecting parts to build one. I've already got the turbos, waste gates, bunch of piping, oil lines / fittings. Still need to get a Blow off valve, and an Air / water intercooler set up as well as some metal to build the section between the manifold and the turbo. Also need to upgrade my fuel injectors and get a stand alone ECU to control it all. Looking for aprox. 600hp at the rear wheels.

  5. #5
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    I haven't looked at a roadster in a while, but I believe they have better air flow through the engine bay since the post-radiator air is not vented out the top of the hood, but rather goes through the engine bay, where I would guess it carries away some of the engine heat. My understanding is that the coupe engines essentially sit in a box with marginal air flow, hence the rectangular hole in the back of the hood on CSX2601.

    I don't see a reason why a turbo couldn't be done, and done well, so long as you keep it sufficiently far away from the hood that you don't blister the paint (or worse) on a hot day. I might also give some thought to channeling some air into the engine bay. I am not trying to be a nay-sayer in the least, but these are design issues I would sort out on the front end.

    Here is a link to the Spyder build: http://www.gnspyder.com/
    Last edited by Jacob McCrea; 05-26-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  6. #6
    el Camino Rapido jtpayne's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback guys. Underhood heat is certainly an issue with a type 65 coupe. I fabricated a cold air intake on mine, which has worked out beautifully on the naturally aspirated application. If turbo heat proves problematic I suppose one could mount an electric fan and duct O/A from one of the side vents and blow it over the turbos. Heat wrap is pretty effective as well.

  7. #7
    Trick Tool Maker, Super Moderator Hankl's Avatar
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    Jeff,

    If the Turbos were placed lower than the GN had, the heat would not be that big of a problem.
    Its doable, and I think it would be a modification that would really put the performance over the edge!

    Hank
    “If you didn’t have enough time to do it right the first time. How come you always have time to go back and do it again?” FFR1000186CP

    Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
    Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hankl View Post
    Jeff,

    If the Turbos were placed lower than the GN had, the heat would not be that big of a problem.
    Its doable, and I think it would be a modification that would really put the performance over the edge!

    Hank
    Like this?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob McCrea View Post
    I haven't looked at a roadster in a while, but I believe they have better air flow through the engine bay since the post-radiator air is not vented out the top of the hood, but rather goes through the engine bay, where I would guess it carries away some of the engine heat. My understanding is that the coupe engines essentially sit in a box with marginal air flow, hence the rectangular hole in the back of the hood on CSX2601.
    Any down side to removing the ducting behind the radiator on a coupe?

  10. #10
    I want to say that FFR engineer Jesper built a twin turbo coupe a number of years ago. You may want to check with him on any issues he had.

  11. #11
    There's a guy who put a BMW V12 in his, I seem to recall turbos being mentioned as well...

  12. #12
    Senior Member EBarnes's Avatar
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    Not sure it will help, but a friend of mine (Perry Mathews) built a turbo roadster. He used to be on the other forum, but sold it a year or so ago. I got a ride in it at an autocross, and it was violent quick.

    E~

  13. #13
    FFR Master from 1999 joecamire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Mauldin View Post
    I want to say that FFR engineer Jesper built a twin turbo coupe a number of years ago. You may want to check with him on any issues he had.
    Yes that is correct it was an INCON system he made the headers himself.

  14. #14
    I'm just gonna put this little guy riiiiight here...





  15. #15
    It's like those spaces were made for turbos

  16. #16
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    That's really nicely done. Also worth mentioning is that the added weight is where you want it - low. You won't be catching your hood on fire with that setup! I might give some thought to ducting some cold air toward the air filers, much like you'd run ducting to the front brakes. Again, very nice.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    It's like those spaces were made for turbos
    My thoughts exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob McCrea View Post
    That's really nicely done. Also worth mentioning is that the added weight is where you want it - low. You won't be catching your hood on fire with that setup! I might give some thought to ducting some cold air toward the air filers, much like you'd run ducting to the front brakes. Again, very nice.
    Thank you very much! My fab work has certainly come a long long ways in the past 10 years. (scary thought!) Ducting some cold air would be a great idea. So far the Air to water intercooler is doing a pretty good job on its own. Cruising around in 85 - 90* weather delivers IAT's under 100* And it able to maintain the same during a harder acceleration pull.

  18. #18
    How much power you putting out now?

    JC
    Factory Five Type-65 Coupe:"Race Spec" coupe, Ordered 1/12, picked-up 5/12, roller 5/12, first start 10/12, finished 4/13
    Factory Five Roadster: Sold 12/2011.
    http://www.25tires.com
    http://www.kruegertunedracing.com

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jkrueger View Post
    How much power you putting out now?

    JC
    I'm hitting a few speed bumps with the tuning right now. once its all sorted out, the goal is 600 wheel. We'll see what happens.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LDave View Post
    I'm hitting a few speed bumps with the tuning right now. once its all sorted out, the goal is 600 wheel. We'll see what happens.
    My stock LS1 put down 350 RWHP so 10-13 psi should easily make 600. With heads and cam thrown in there 600 is doable on less than 10 psi. Just don't go over 700 at the crank or the aluminum shortblock will go bang.

    What are your tuning problems, maybe I can help as I just went through all that?
    Mike......FFR Coupe #340, 2003 LS1 350 RWHP, TKO 500, QT BH, Champ 10 QT pan, 5 Lug and AC, Cobra Disc, SAI mod, Nitto NT-01 275/315 ..Licensed for 28k..Just over 30k w/race tires and many mods
    http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/
    http://www.youtube.com/user/stlmarshall
    2011, 2012, and 2013 St Louis region XP Champion

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by STLMARSHALL View Post
    My stock LS1 put down 350 RWHP so 10-13 psi should easily make 600. With heads and cam thrown in there 600 is doable on less than 10 psi. Just don't go over 700 at the crank or the aluminum shortblock will go bang.

    What are your tuning problems, maybe I can help as I just went through all that?
    Its an Iron LM7, so it'll live all day long at 600 whp. If I do ever upgrade the motor at all it will be to a set of 243 heads. And that's about it.

    My tuning issues are with the HPtuners. I've got it set up on a 2 bar SD tune. Once I hit 135kpa(5psi), the PCM starts dumping massive amounts of fuel bring the AFR from a 12.5 down to a 9.0 where it pegs the wide band gauge, then it will sputter and not accelerate anymore. As I'm boosting up to 135kpa its fine. the VE table doesn't have any kind of drastic spikes or dips on it, neither does the power enrichment table. Everything is pretty much where it should be. Its like there is an adder that I'm missing somewhere that says to double the injector pulse at 135kpa. Spend several hours with it out street tuning it with my buddy. And so far we've come up empty handed. If we command it to give 0 fuel at 135kpa, it will cut the fuel and the afr will go lean. (as it should) But when putting the VE table back to a normal value at those cell's, roughly 110 - 120ish. It instantly goes pig rich. Even tried commanding the fuel to be 50% less at 135kpa, still floods the motor. I think our next step might be trying a different PCM in the car. My buddy has tunes several boosted cars using HPtuners and has never come across an issue like this. We'll get it figured out eventually, just takes time.

    What kinds of tuning problems were you going through?

  22. #22
    My tuner forgot to turn of some auto protect mode and it kept going rich above 5000 rpm. He kept taking fuel out and it just kept fighting him. When he turned it off things got much better. The stock tune was off the scale rich and as soon as you lean it out to a normal afr it wanted to protect the motor.



    Here is a guy running rich under boost: http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-ind...ning-slow.html

    Possibilities from some reading:
    1. Fouled plugs or too much gap
    2. Bad O2 sensor
    3. FPR boost referenced?
    4. Are you logging any misfires?
    5. What about knock?

    Just throwing out ideas. I would say throw your datalog up on LS1 tech with your tune and someone will know what the problem is.
    Mike......FFR Coupe #340, 2003 LS1 350 RWHP, TKO 500, QT BH, Champ 10 QT pan, 5 Lug and AC, Cobra Disc, SAI mod, Nitto NT-01 275/315 ..Licensed for 28k..Just over 30k w/race tires and many mods
    http://s464.photobucket.com/albums/rr2/mmarshall01/
    http://www.youtube.com/user/stlmarshall
    2011, 2012, and 2013 St Louis region XP Champion

  23. #23
    It appears that I have solved the tuning issue! What I think happened is, when I loaded in the 2bar speed density OS into the PCM it didn't fully take the first time. What I did was convert back to the factory OS, and then re-install the speed density OS. Runs good now! And hits full boost no problem. :-)

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