Next body style?

[0100]

Well I guess I am done checking in on this forum till SEMA.

[Duratec7]

Dave,

Thanks for the very clear and level headed response! Your passion for your business is obvious, and I'm sorry to hear that you feel you need to scale back the release of information at the open house and here on the forum to protect your team. You set some very lofty goals, and seem well on target to make and even surpass them, congratulations! I hope as the negativity frenzy on the forum dies off a bit you can re-consider and keep us in the loop and not just go dark until the SEMA.

Keep up the great work!

[BipDBo]

It was not fair of me to suggest that Dave make any commitments. He has much more to think about than placating the design forum. As Dave points out, there's also no point in it because many designs just would not work. It's a small possibility that one of the designs from the competition will get used one day, so let's leave it there.

Truth be told, I'm not at all surprised about the responses. I don't agree with all of the negative vibes out there, but I understand where they are coming from. Everyone has their favorite design, and their idea about what it should look like, and most would not be happy any other way. I had posted recommendations to Dave not to release any renderings, but rather to wait until the curtain could be drawn on the finished car. Now, I'm glad, though that Dave did release the pictures. Now that everyone is venting their frustrations, the 818 will hopefully be able to have its day in the spotlight at SEMA without the hecklers shouting from the back.

Forum members: Go ahead and vent now, but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE people, don't take it to the SEMA release. Dave and the FFR team has worked too hard, and this car is too cool to have its day in the sun tainted. Let the populous form its own opinion without your help.

The FFR team has listened to our input involved us in the process. They based the design on one of the crowd favorites (Xabier) and then made more improvements based on comments. I have always wanted to build my own car, but it has always been out of my reach until the 818. I've always wanted to be involved in designing something like this, and Dave gave the opportunity. It's been a lot of fun, and I appreciate it.

Dave, please take these recommendations:
* Stop focusing on the negative feedback. There is plenty of positive feedback, but it seems like you are only reacting to the negative comments. I was one of the first to respond. On first impression, I said it was awesome, and still think so. There are going to be more nay sayers from this forum than the general population because of the history of involvement. This design cannot and doesn't need to be loved by every one to be a success. The 818 will attract a lot of customers who otherwise never would have considered a kit car. If 5% of people who know how to turn a wrench see this car and fall in love with it, your order book will be full.
* Don't let this affect your progress. You have made your decisions. Some people don't like it. Let them deal with it over in the corner. Other people love it. The 818 will sell when it is released.
* There is some constructive feedback on the forum. While there is still time to implement changes, it couldn't hurt to consider the constructive criticism. Granted, it may be difficult to wade through the rubbish to find it.

[wallace18]

I totally understand how you feel Dave. I felt privileged to hear updates. I did not like the negative feedback from the 20% ers. Thanks for all you have done. I am ready with my donor. Hope to see you in person in 2013 to pick up my 818 kit. Best of luck.

[Niburu]

You said an OEM level HVAC isn't possible. How much is possible? Heat only? Heat is more important than AC for me.

it's entirely possible, just not in a sub $10K kit
heat should be fairly easy, especially if you have a donor car - you'll have a fan with controls and a heater core at your disposal

[Oppenheimer]

If the design of 818 body #1 is going to stop you from placing an order, than your best course is to find any and every way to support the car, so that it will be a tremendous success, so that there will be $ available, and incentive for even more sales, for FFR to build other body designs. Not to mention if the car is a huge success, other vendors will likely appear to build other custom body designs.

The priviledge of being part of the community and to have had a voice to this point comes with responsibility. We all need to be champions for the 818 cause. That is how you are going to get other body design choices.

[Xusia]

Dave, thank you for providing some insight and addressing this [IMHO] blown out of proportion issue. That was both generous and kind. You continue to impress me and I can't wait to be a customer (It's been 16 years coming!).

Dave, thanks for the explanation. I think if the first couple of paragraphs came out with the render, you'd have little to no blowback as it lets everyone know how you ended up on the well justified path you've taken.

I will say, I think going silent is a horrible idea as the silence is what precipitated a lot of the negativity. If you're confident in the design, show us more angles, show us the street version and help us see what you see.

Well said. I fear Dave's mind is made, but just in case I'm indicating my support!

[Rockraven]

I hope that Dave's frustration is really in response to the insults from the 3 or 4 individuals that effectively shut down the flow of information for the rest of us, and that he's not mad at the forum as a whole. According to the poll set up to gauge reaction to the body design, more than 75% at least like it and would happily buy it. I'm willing to bet that not many production car manufacturers have had such a positive reaction to a newly introduced model, and many more would LOVE to have a better than 75% favorable response. Dave, Jim and the rest of the FF team should feel good about what they've done, and I ask them please don't shut us out of the 818 development.

[DaJudge]

I hope that Dave's frustration is really in response to the insults from the 3 or 4 individuals that effectively shut down the flow of information for the rest of us, and that he's not mad at the forum as a whole. According to the poll set up to gauge reaction to the body design, more than 75% at least like it and would happily buy it. I'm willing to bet that not many production car manufacturers have had such a positive reaction to a newly introduced model, and many more would LOVE to have a better than 75% favorable response. Dave, Jim and the rest of the FF team should feel good about what they've done, and I ask them please don't shut us out of the 818 development.

What he said.

I truley thank FF for all their hard work. I too work in an industry in which the arm chair QB's complain about everything. I think these guys should put their money where their mouths are and produce their own bodies. I will continue to watch and wait for SEMA. Hopefully all goes well and the coupe comes. That is the 818 I am most interested in and think it will be a fantastic project.

Thanks Dave and keep your head high!

[Flamshackle]

I hope that Dave's frustration is really in response to the insults from the 3 or 4 individuals that effectively shut down the flow of information for the rest of us, and that he's not mad at the forum as a whole. According to the poll set up to gauge reaction to the body design, more than 75% at least like it and would happily buy it. I'm willing to bet that not many production car manufacturers have had such a positive reaction to a newly introduced model, and many more would LOVE to have a better than 75% favorable response. Dave, Jim and the rest of the FF team should feel good about what they've done, and I ask them please don't shut us out of the 818 development.

Dave Smith please listen to this post above^

This echos my frustration at how often the few spoil the brew.

[RodneyO]

I have been meaning to post something for a bit now. First of all I'm impressed with the way FFR, specially Dave has been approaching this whole project and I think the revealed design is awesome and it moves the bar for the competition higher. I'm curious to see how many other companies are hitting what FFR is doing right now.

I think the 818R is a step forward in a vision that FFR has, and to me this is one of the coolest things to see. We all have bosses, how often do you see an owner be at the front really leading their company, sharing info (publicly even), taking hits, caring for his team, spending time to talk directly to their customers, etc.? This speaks volumes about a company and the leadership it has. I don't know if this even relates but the most successful projects I've ever worked on have had the right combinations of things happening during their time (atleast from my observation); an exciting project, the right team members that have good chemistry, highly skilled individuals at their craft, great management, tons of passion, hopefully great funds to help it along, but most importantly trust. What is happening with FFR seems like an awesome recipe for great things to come.

Dave seems to trust his team, I think FFR deserves a little bit of support and trust from us as well. That doesn't mean we always have to agree with everything that is being decided and I would think that it is Ok to voice it. But in the end the trust you give them will make you feel more comfortable in the decisions that are being made.

I believe in community involvement, with it you get both the good and the bad but in a way it's how the future is being approached in so many industries.

Awesome adjustments, Jim... I have been around artists my whole career. The fact that you can do both, be technical and artistic and deliver both is cool! Awesome job man to you and the team that is putting this together.

I say show the track version at Sema, it should generate buzz and people intake things through their eyes first, so eye candy is always great for PR. Get people excited so word gets out.

I think FFR is delivering on a promise they made, 10k amazing kit, 15k amazing performance and a classic design. A potential future of multiple affordable bodies to please all different tastes of car design. Wow, what else could you ask for!?! I'm new to the Kit industry, I'm 35 and somehow in my mind I thought that only rich peeps were the only ones that could afford custom made cars (kits). This project is braking that perception (or atleast for me) and has potential to introduce a whole new market of young individuals wanting an awesome racing machine.

[Flamshackle]

I have been meaning to post something for a bit now. First of all I'm impressed with the way FFR, specially Dave has been approaching this whole project and I think the revealed design is awesome and it moves the bar for the competition higher. I'm curious to see how many other companies are hitting what FFR is doing right now.

I think the 818R is a step forward in a vision that FFR has, and to me this is one of the coolest things to see. We all have bosses, how often do you see an owner be at the front really leading their company, sharing info (publicly even), taking hits, caring for his team, spending time to talk directly to their customers, etc.? This speaks volumes about a company and the leadership it has. I don't know if this even relates but the most successful projects I've ever worked on have had the right combinations of things happening during their time (atleast from my observation); an exciting project, the right team members that have good chemistry, highly skilled individuals at their craft, great management, tons of passion, hopefully great funds to help it along, but most importantly trust. What is happening with FFR seems like an awesome recipe for great things to come.

Dave seems to trust his team, I think FFR deserves a little bit of support and trust from us as well. That doesn't mean we always have to agree with everything that is being decided and I would think that it is Ok to voice it. But in the end the trust you give them will make you feel more comfortable in the decisions that are being made.

I believe in community involvement, with it you get both the good and the bad but in a way it's how the future is being approached in so many industries.

Awesome adjustments, Jim... I have been around artists my whole career. The fact that you can do both, be technical and artistic and deliver both is cool! Awesome job man to you and the team that is putting this together.

I say show the track version at Sema, it should generate buzz and people intake things through their eyes first, so eye candy is always great for PR. Get people excited so word gets out.

I think FFR is delivering on a promise they made, 10k amazing kit, 15k amazing performance and a classic design. A potential future of multiple affordable bodies to please all different tastes of car design. Wow, what else could you ask for!?! I'm new to the Kit industry, I'm 35 and somehow in my mind I thought that only rich peeps were the only ones that could afford custom made cars (kits). This project is braking that perception (or atleast for me) and has potential to introduce a whole new market of young individuals wanting an awesome racing machine.

Great input Rodney thanks for giving us an artists perspective and for what I see as much needed support to Jim (from someone who knows) for his hard work, long hours and artistic passion he has poured into this car.

Jim I applaud you! over the last three days this car has grown on me so much more. I am REALLY REALLY liking the shape now.
Everyone I show it to I ask to rate it out of 10 and the average is a 7! If 9-10 are multimillin dollar supercars this really is a good watermark of how great it actually looks to the general public
I even had the owner of a Subaru shop today say "it's got to be a 9-10 that thing looks evil"

[riptide motorsport]

One thing that keeps sticking out in my mind......you all act as if this is a SUPER deaL or a real BARGUN The trueth is that for $3000.00 more you can build a C0bra. mabey less because a Fox donor could be picked up for $2000.00, so the Cobra finished may cost the same. Only when your finished with the Cobra. you have a world renouned car with and incredible resale value. The 818 may not have a resale value. Definitly a HOF car the C0bra is. So I do love the 818 and will probably build one........................but I don't feel the whole fire sale mentality, your all acting as if FFR is the only girl at the dance and somehow they are doing you a favor/////its a great company but its not like they're giving it away...............just my measly 2 cents...........flame away!!!!

[PhyrraM]

.........you all act as if this is a SUPER deaL or a real BARGUN The trueth is that for $3000.00 more you can build a C0bra. mabey less because a Fox donor could be picked up for $2000.00, so the Cobra finished may cost the same. ......

How much for paint and bodywork?

[bromikl]

Re: the next body

*disclaimer: I'm not an engineer. I don't design cars - in fact, I can't even draw. But I'm going to indulge in some wild speculation, anyway.

If we only had access to the frame CAD files. There are several people on this forum who could fit most reasonable designs to it. One artist per design, with suggestions from interested parties, like Rodney did when he fine-tuned his submission. Then we'd all know why, for example, you can't put a line there because...

With apologies to Dave and the crew, I'm speaking from a position of ignorance; because they've kept us ignorant - I suspect Jim's design could look way better if we had a chance to fine tune it. And I suspect Xabier's concept could have been made to fit, and many others as well - even some that didn't fit the template.

Maybe after all three bodies are in production, there could be an annual addition to the possible skins our 818's can wear.

[riptide motorsport]

Leave it gel coat red, they are very nice bodies. Sell it all day long for $23,000.00. $15000.00 is not chump change, it's alot of money.

[Joe]

Hang in there Dave..

[Pastenseverb]

“Crapped in my own flat hat? Apologize?! Not being upfront with us? “

Holy cow Dave, That's funny!
I've remained quiet about the 818 since it's inception but feel inclined to write this. I AM a Factory Five customer and purchasing, building and driving my MK3 was/is one of the best experiences of my life. I have had the real itch to do it again since I finished my Cobra and was looking at the 33. When I saw the email on the open house yesterday and watched the video, I decided to start looking for my donor Subaru. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid and have a box of brochures in my car and give them out everywhere I go. As for me, I thank you Dave and I have every confidence you will manage this appropriately and we will have an outstanding product when it is released. How often do we as the public get an input on future designs? I said input, not criticism.

Thanks Dave