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I read your entire post. Glad you posted too.Originally Posted by Dave Smith
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It's good to see that Dave has shaken off some of the negativity.
It's also good to see that he is still listening to new ideas and constructive criticism. I think that the vast improvements in this design are in large part due to feedback. That will probably end very soon, however. They are probably coming very close to press time where they need to build molds are can no longer make changes. They may already be past that point.
I like the look of the Vman's side vents a bit better. The side intake on Jim's original model only looks to have an opening on about half of it. Perhaps if the entire side vent were used, the intake on the top of the fender could be deleted. They may have the top intakes, however, to get a separate ducting for the intercooler and combustion intake. The combustion coming from the top vent where it is more duct and water free. Just speculation.
Jim.jpg
jim-4a.jpg
I also like the vents on the humps. Jim's original model has a vent on the top of the engine bay near the back. This provides good cross ventilation and upward convection when the air enters through the bottom and the side vents. The only disadvantage to Jim's vent placement is that it interferes with a potential trunk. Vents in the humps would make room for a trunk, but not have as good cross ventilation. Since the radiator is up front, however, there is going to be much less heat production in this engine bay.
Vman.... MAJOR WIN! That is all it took and I'm now in love with this body again. I could be seen in your version of the nose and be a very happy man.
I think it's going to be important to remember that just because Dave said he liked the rendering, it doesn't mean that it can be done. It may be more about time than anything now. It's hard to say how well it will scale.
I would hope we can avoid another explosion if it doesn't turn out to be just like the updated rendering.
With your awesome skills, could you do a sketch of what it would like with a glass engine cover?
I know it may not make the FFR production version, but it may be a great aftermarket mod, for people who would love to show off that the car is mid-engined, like it is used on most modern mid-engined exotics
Too funny! I said this same thing in another thread before I read this.
Excellent commentary, Dave. Know that you have my support.
As for the body, it is growing on me as well. I do trust FFR to get it right, and I'm super excited to see the full reveal at SEMA (or anything else you may choose to throw at us before then!).
Vman you are truly talented. Its amazing what a talented designer/artist can do in such a short time. I still think its too bad that Dave didn't let the community know sooner about the decision to use Jim's design. This is the kind of support that they would have gotten, to use or not, that could have taken this design to the next level.
I can do anything with enough time and money.
I would agree, Im liking the mods Vman,
Heres my edit, and probably the color scheme I end up with, Clean body, Dark Wheels, Keeping the bumper just blacking out the "ducts" and maybe new headlights?
Im nowhere near good at PS so excuse the graininess.
Thanks everybody for the compliments, especially Dave Smith for his kind compliments
I would like to reiterate that these mod.s are no way in trying to sway Dave or FFR. Just some ideas of how ideas may come about in the future, either by FFR or by people on their own.
I believe Dave, Jim & the FFR Team have a very good base to build on, so lets keep up the positive thinking and let them do their thing!
Now if I can just get a 3/4 view of the rear......hint, hint........lol
Maybe later today or sat, I will clean up the decals and do a street version.
David
Last edited by Vman7; 06-08-2012 at 02:50 PM.
I think we all get that. But Dave is observant about what is happening in the forums. I'm hoping that the instant GREAT reviews of Vmans modded nose will help influence the final production body. Vman has proven this body can get to HoF status with a little massaging. I have faith. Faith enough I'm starting to spool up the search for a donor.
I like the look of the rear end on this. Diffuser really brings the whole look together. Simple yet very appealing. Plus the exhuast straight out the back is a must. Possibly something similar to this?Just an idea to toss around..
good work so far guys
I like it... I like it a lot!
Problem is manufacturability? This bumper looks very complex to produce now?
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One hung the top vents can be used for could be mounting points for a soft top. Just the othe day I saw how the soft top is mounted behind the bumps of a 911 gt3 in person. I took some pics with my phone. It's hard to tell from the pics but in the top vent there is a mounting point where the top has a little D-Clip to attach. This may be an aftermarket sod top I don't quite know but it solves the mounting point for covering the roll cage.
I will try to post some pics when I figure out how too or I might just post a link to the pic.
Front intakes:
original:
818R.jpg
Vman #1:
JBM%20Mods%201.JPG
Vman#2:
JBM%20Mods%201B.JPG
I like your first version of the front intakes more than the second version. The second version looks like it's trying to be mustang, but it reminds me of catfish. Plus the second version is less aerodynamic. To be honest, I like the original untouched front intake the best. All of the lines on the side of the car such as the rear fender intake and back edge of the door slope up and backward. In the original, the front corner slits match this slope. On your version, it's reversed. Also, the original slope is similar to that bump on the front corner of the GTM.
I'm not sure if these front corner splits actually do anything. If they provide some air flow to the wheel well, thats fine. If it's just a crease without any opening, I'd rather they be smoothed out. Hyundai has taken to adding a crease, perpindicular to the flow of air around their front grill. I doubt it has much effect on aerodynamics, but it just looks like it trips the air, and does not look good to me.
Hyundai-Elantra.jpg
I know that in some cases, engineers add vortice inducers to trip the air and actually decrease drag, but it is never on the leading edge. The inducer is always on a low pressure area of a convex curve.
I disagree. I think the second version's front end transforms the car into a much more exotic looking animal. That's not to say that we have to choose (or even have the choice) between the two. It may be less aerodynamic, but sometimes a little bit of form needs to follow function. If we were designing the most efficient car it would be dimpled like a golf ball.
1997 Jeep XJ (Cherokee) : Apocalypse Vehicle, 4.5" lift, ARB locker, 34" tires
1983 Lotus Turbo Esprit : Mid-engined, turbocharged 4 cylinder... remind you of anything?
I agree. With that, I'd be completely happy with the car the way it is.
The second version front side scoop reminds me of this (it's a good thing):
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Version #2 venting area aka mouth, is base on my Vantage design, loosely based.
Last edited by Vman7; 06-08-2012 at 07:15 PM.
Oh how I miss teh Vantage design
That is sexy!
The more I look at mod #2 front vents, they are off, they go to the outside edge of the fender, when they should end just a little after the inside of the front tires when looking from the front.
So what I am going to do is readjust them, and also do a front view.
This pic shows somewhat where they need be on the side view.
I know it may look alittle strange, but will make sense when I show the front view.
Attachment 10149
I will use this picture for the front view and make the opening taller to reflect Jim's front height, then modify the center area to reflect the center bar and lower area, plus change the airdam to reflect Jim's.
Attachment 10150
Vman7, I really like your mods!
Wow! Great job Vman! This is exactly what I was thinking was missing when I saw the original design. These kind of simple changes are really making the body round the corner so to speak. Thank you!
Vman,
You have some Real Talent, it's been a pleasure to review your drawings and modification.
Best of luck in your future.
Smitty
I'm glad to see this forum back on track. Vman, I always love the design of the vantage. Given that we now have a 3/4 view, any chance you show a coupe version of Jim's modified suggestion you posted please? Thanks!
Sorry double post was trying to make the pics bigger. In the first pic you can tell how the top is attached to the body. This I think FFR can incorporate into the soft top design if they haven't figured out how they are planning on doing it. Yes it may extend back farther on the car and is not completely enclosed like on most typical cars that are soft top convertibles. But it gets the job done. Its cheap and fairly easy to design. In the second picture you can see a different angle of of the top attaches. Also the third brake light could be incorporated into the design or we can add it in if we want to cover the roll bar that is extend between the two humps.
Lastly if someone quotes me and says that this is a GTS3, and it actually isn't i was only quoting exactlly what the owner of the car said. I went to Porsche's website and was trying to get different pics and angles of this top and all of there pics showed a different type of soft top more traditional.
It certainly worked on your design, but your intake was all the way at the bottom. One of the problems I'm having is that the side of the intake continues downward. To me, it gives it the look of whiskers hanging down from the edges of it's mouth.
vman2.JPG
Secondly, I'm not sure what's actually going on in 3D. Perhaps it would just be a small creas like this Mustang concept:
mustang concept.JPG
I think though it would look better terminating above a horizontal element like a bumper protrusion like the current Mustang:
2012_ford_mustang.jpg
Maybe this mod just needs a little bit aof tweeking. I liked your other ideas, for what it's worth.
No changes being offered, I just had to see the two side by side, without relying on memory by clicking the next button.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/
The Vman alterations do make the car look more aggressive, likes it's going faster while sitting still (a good thing).
George; Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects
1977 Porsche 911 Targa, 2.7L CIS Silver/Black, owned since 2003
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up Truck 4x4 4.3L V6 Black with front and rear spoilers
1989 Scat II HP hovercraft with Cuyuna two stroke ULII-02, 35 hp with experimental skirt and sound control
Bringing the side vent into the door really sharpens this design up.
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I thinking my design doesn't look too bad after all..
Last edited by mekeys; 06-22-2012 at 03:28 PM. Reason: added image
What if on the original design you add brake and/or footwell cooling ducts?
Possible street version: I took Vman's mods and removed the decals and wing.
vman_street_818.JPG
Looks great!
That looks great!
Looks pretty darn good! Can somebody put a soft top on it?
If at first you don't succeed ... get a bigger hammer.
I took a walk today and spotted a new Mazda 6 parked a few blocks from my house. Dang those are good looking headlights, wonder what they would like on the 818.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/
I also found out what the trick to shortening the front overhang is. Gotta lower the hood height at the same time, otherwise it just looks snouty or stubby.
EDIT: Transformation into something I might want to put my name to.
Last edited by kach22i; 06-09-2012 at 02:54 PM.
George; Architect, Artist and Designer of Objects
1977 Porsche 911 Targa, 2.7L CIS Silver/Black, owned since 2003
1998 Chevy S-10 Pick-Up Truck 4x4 4.3L V6 Black with front and rear spoilers
1989 Scat II HP hovercraft with Cuyuna two stroke ULII-02, 35 hp with experimental skirt and sound control
Kach,
At first glance I didn't see the subtle difference but the lowering of the hood really changed the whole look of the rendering with the street style windscreen. I'm surprised how such a suble change could make the whole body look better. I think a may have had a slight HOF effect!! Quite honestly, it took some of the OEM look out of the equation as well. You know, like when someone asks, "what is that?". Good work!!! WEK.
FFR MkIII 302 (ATK), EFI 75mm TB with custom box plenum chamber, 24# injectors, 4 tube BBK ceramic, cold air sys, alum flywheel, crane roller rockers, T5, Wilwood pedals, custom five link with Watt's link, 4 rotors, coil overs, power steering with Heidt valve, alum FFR rad, driver's crash bar mod, mini dead pedal mod, quick release steering wheel hub #6046
Holy cow! bunch of comments that need to addressed........lol
I saw that a while back when researching ideas for a soft top durning the contest. It's actually a very good idea. Who knows maybe that is what FFR may have in mind as a add-on.
BipDBo, I am chuckling here as I read all that, not because it's wrong, because I was having somewhat of the same feeling. I was up last night working on the front view until about 3 A.M. and pretty much came to the same conclusion. Just a lot going on with the front end, with the horz. bar and such.
So I am thinking along the same lines as you are about ending the ctr openings at the ctr horz. bar.
I agree, that is the main reason for the new side vent, which I feel adds the most to the aggressive look, as well as working with the front end.
Thanks
That might be adding too much.
I see you got to that before me....lol, I was hoping to get to that today sometime.
Ok here is where it get tricky, this is going to take a lot of explaining in what I think is going on, of course this is just my thoughts on it, not necessarily what's going on in Jim's head.I took a walk today and spotted a new Mazda 6 parked a few blocks from my house. Dang those are good looking headlights, wonder what they would like on the 818.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/
I also found out what the trick to shortening the front overhang is. Gotta lower the hood height at the same time, otherwise it just looks snouty or stubby.
1st of if you look close to Jim's design (top pic of Kachi22i 3) and you look at the driver side headlight, you will see how there is a hump before the headlight runs into the bumber area. Doesn't make a smooth transition, which I gather is part of Jim's design idea.
Also you have to remember there is a requirment for headlight height in states, and it varies from state to state. So this makes it hard to lower the top of the front end without making it too long, if you make it too short it gives the car a stumpy look. If you lower the front and make it too long, from the side view it makes the car look out of balance with the rear, which means you would have to make the rear longer.
Yes I agree that the front looks too high, but not by much, at first when I saw the design, if I didn't know it was a mid engine design, I would have thought it had a front engine.
But for now I would say leave the front/bumper height alone, other wise they are getting into major changes. For right now I would say just stay with some minor tweaks herer and there. Like I said before something that could be done either by FFR or people on their own later.
I will be post some updates later.
David
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