New 818 Look, Possible Future Mod.s

[Vman7]

oh BTW, forgot about my thinking on headlights and taillights.....lol

I talked about this way back in some other thread.

Not sure on the thinking behind using headlights from another car, I believe the ones being used are from a camry, but I could be wrong on that. At anyrate I did a search on camry headlights and ouch! they can get expensive per/unit, I saw some for almost $200 a unit.

That is why I purposed using Hella headlights, since you can get them almost anywhere and a lot less money, plus it takes away from that so called "oh look they used headlights from a ...." comment. But that is something again that could be done later in time as the design develops more.

Same kind of thinking with the rear taillights. From what I have seen in the past mockup pics of Jim's design, it looks like they are using Hella taillight for the big round ones, kind of like the ones on the GTM.

By using Hella taillights that are not LED, you can keep the price way down, and I mean way down.

Basic idea here is to work with what FFR has so far, and continue to let FFR stay on path.

Anyhoot enough rambling........lol

David

[kach22i]

Kach,
At first glance I didn't see the subtle difference but the lowering of the hood really changed the whole look of the rendering with the street style windscreen. I'm surprised how such a suble change could make the whole body look better. I think a may have had a slight HOF effect!! Quite honestly, it took some of the OEM look out of the equation as well. You know, like when someone asks, "what is that?". Good work!!! WEK.

I went back and modified the one with the 350Z (now looking like Ford Focus lights to me) headlights, a world of difference lowering the hood makes. It's looking tight, and light.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/

[Vman7]

kach22i, these are all good ideas, but we are talking about major changes here. So don't take this the wrong way need to read what I said in post #80.

These pics take away from the aggressive look, and somewhat reminds too much of the miata.

Attachment 10193

Attachment 10194

We need to stay on the topic of this thread. Which is not about major changes! It's about working with what FFR has at this point, and what could be future development of the 818 of the current design. Not another body with major changes, that is a whole different subject.

David

[Xusia]

I agree about keeping the nose length. We've only seen one view of the body, so until we see more, I think it's premature to assume it's too long.

On the topic of grills, I REALLY like the honeycomb in Kach22i's last pic. Even if FFR has purposely limited the grill opening size (for functional/aerodynamic reasons?) you could always limit the actual size behind the honeycomb. Visually, I think it's very attractive and aggressive without being TOO edgy.

I also like the honeycomb on the rear side opening, but I wonder if it's necessary. The blank hole didn't look bad to me at all.

[kach22i]

kach22i, these are all good ideas, but we are talking about major changes here.

David/Vman, the shortened nose schemes are just a self indulgent exploration of what could have been.

The ambiguous nature of a long high hood on a mid-engined car, was best executed by the original Lamborghini Miura. That is a hard act to follow, and honestly many front engined cars like the Corvette have lower, sleeker hoods than the latest rendering by FFR.

I'm lamenting over what could have been, and fully realize that my personal preferences will not be met by FFR. Still, it was a fun exercise to see what could have been.

I will compliment the FFR 818 design and the changes David/Vman made in succeeding to look brash and bold in a very American way. I know I called it pedestrian, but it does have a certain audacity to buck the low hood, cab forward look one has grown accustomed to expecting in a mid-engine car. I clearly do not approve of this, but many others may decide they do like it, and good for them. Just expect the first question most people may ask when they first see the car to be; is the engine up front or in the back?

The 818 Androgynous?

EDIT: a picture is worth a thousand words, right?
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/

[Vman7]

David/Vman, the shortened nose schemes are just a self indulgent exploration of what could have been.

The ambiguous nature of a long high hood on a mid-engined car, was best executed by the original Lamborghini Miura. That is a hard act to follow, and honestly many front engined cars like the Corvette have lower, sleeker hoods than the latest rendering by FFR.

I'm lamenting over what could have been, and fully realize that my personal preferences will not be met by FFR. Still, it was a fun exercise to see what could have been.

I will compliment the FFR 818 design and the changes David/Vman made in succeeding to look brash and bold in a very American way. I know I called it pedestrian, but it does have a certain audacity to buck the low hood, cab forward look one has grown accustomed to expecting in a mid-engine car. I clearly do not approve of this, but many others may decide they do like it, and good for them. Just expect the first question most people may ask when they first see the car to be; is the engine up front or in the back?

The 818 Androgynous?

I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol.

[Don DePontee]

This design is beautiful, much sleeker and aggressive looking. You've got a winner here.

Here is a more modified front vent area.


Attachment 10088

[Jeff Kleiner]

While considering some of these suggestions such as a shorter nose (which I happen to like very much visually) or lower hood line don't fall into the same trap that I believed occured with some of the designs that were not useable---forgetting that there are points under the body dictating where it has to be which many times determine what is or is not possible. For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:



In that case if the front is made shorter the steeper, more abrupt drop to the bumper might not be aesthetic pleasing.

Regarding incorporating OEM headlights; many states require and check for DOT approval numbers which often times the less costly aftermarket units do not have.

Cheers,
Jeff

[kach22i]

.......For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:

Jeff, I see the high point of the chassis frame holding suspension components located on axis with the centerline of the front wheels, and not too much higher than the wheels. They did an excellent job of keeping these points low, thereby creating the opportunity for a low hood.

In my opinion, and yes this goes way back to the original template, the radiator mounting and mounting angle have been the bottleneck to a true low hood line. I do see positive changes in this area, they have from what I can see, lowered the radiator and increased it's slope for a lower profile. This may have contribute to the need for a long nose as the angle is increased and the radiator jutted forward, but I just don't have enough information to be sure.

Finally, the three short nose schemes together, this morning I seem to be favoring the bottom one. The top one needs the rear haunch blended with the top of the door better, as it now appears disjointed. This condition is being caused/aggravated by the strong horizontal line of the side vent.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/


Note: Lotus has been mounting radiators horizontal for quite a while now, I'm no engineer, so I cannot tell you what this entails, and what modifications to the Subie unit would have to be made.
http://elsiefrombottomtotop.blogspot...1-history.html
Bleeding+new+radiator.JPG

EDIT: 06/11/12 Fixed the belt-line per my original comments.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/

[VTX]

I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol.

I really think we should wait to see some more angles and possibly even the car in real life. I can't help but think that renderings aren't quite doing it justice and that the front hood will appear plenty low and short, and look the part of a mid engined car once we see more. And that if FFR actually tried to shorten/lower the hood it might actually look a little odd in real life.

I could be wrong, but I am waiting to see more shots before I get to far down one road of thinking in my mind about how this car will look when finished.

That being said, of all the modifications I've seen, I love Vman's the best and would love it if FFR incorporated some of those design elements. Although FFR's design has grown on me some from when I first saw it and I still think it's a nice looking car.

[SkiRideDrive]

Jeff

Jeff, thanks for sharing. Any chance you have a high res version of that photo?

Also, does anyone know what brand/model those seats are in the photo? They appear pretty nice and more bolstered than a production seat would be.

-Kevin

[shim2]

I believe that's the highest res. It's from FFR's directory, it was also posted on facebook.

[cmcintyre]

Also, does anyone know what brand/model those seats are in the photo? They appear pretty nice and more bolstered than a production seat would be.

-Kevin

At the open house, Jim said they were out of the GTM. Same with the shifter.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Any chance you have a high res version of that photo?

-Kevin

No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:



It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is.

Unrelated but still interesting, I see by looking at the UCA adjustments that Jim has quite a bit of caster dialed in (generally that's all good for camber gain, stability and self centering). Yeah, I'm gonna' like this thing

Jeff

[Vman7]

While considering some of these suggestions such as a shorter nose (which I happen to like very much visually) or lower hood line don't fall into the same trap that I believed occured with some of the designs that were not useable---forgetting that there are points under the body dictating where it has to be which many times determine what is or is not possible. For example, judging by this shot it looks like the hood line may not be able to come down until it is somewhat forward of the wheel centerline:



In that case if the front is made shorter the steeper, more abrupt drop to the bumper might not be aesthetic pleasing.

Regarding incorporating OEM headlights; many states require and check for DOT approval numbers which often times the less costly aftermarket units do not have.

Cheers,
Jeff

Jeff, I agree, with all that is going on up front, it would be major changes to lower the body and shorten. check post #80

As far as the Headlights and taillights being DOT approved, the ones I suggested are from Hella which are DOT approved.

I really think we should wait to see some more angles and possibly even the car in real life. I can't help but think that renderings aren't quite doing it justice and that the front hood will appear plenty low and short, and look the part of a mid engined car once we see more. And that if FFR actually tried to shorten/lower the hood it might actually look a little odd in real life.

I could be wrong, but I am waiting to see more shots before I get to far down one road of thinking in my mind about how this car will look when finished.

That being said, of all the modifications I've seen, I love Vman's the best and would love it if FFR incorporated some of those design elements. Although FFR's design has grown on me some from when I first saw it and I still think it's a nice looking car.

I was referring to kach22i when he was talking about lowering the front, when I said "I agree, as you well know, look at my Vantage. I thought the same thing when first looking at FFR design, is the engine in the front......lol."

That's just the look I like, referring to a classic look such as the Vantage and others. But that being said I still like the FFR current design and FFR should go ahead with it.

No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:



It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is. Jeff

The pictures you showed in Posts #88 and #94 both in this post. Show and make the point about changing the front end being lower and possibly being shorter, is a major change.

David

[Vman7]

Sorry I didn't get some update pics up last night.

Right now I am still working on cleaning up the decals etc. so I can have a base to work with for doing some minor mods (which most have been posted, just need refining) and showing a street version.

[305mouse]

I was hoping for a little storage room up front, looks like thats not gonna happen.

[shim2]

Maybe behind over the transmission. That doesn't look like enough room for an adequate storage compartment.

[SkiRideDrive]

Ah I see. Thanks for the replies guys.

[Vman7]

Here are some updates.

Orig. Street. Not sure on the size or shape of Windshield that FFR is using, but you get the idea.


Attachment 10206

Mod.s


Attachment 10207


Attachment 10208


Attachment 10209

Enjoy!
David

[shim2]

Those look awesome Vman. I'd be ecstatic to own any of them. I like the way Jim's design could potentially look, but your tweaks definitely give it that HoF look.

[Xusia]

Thanks, David. Those are great!

[Someday I Suppose]

Jeff, I asked Jim about how much caster they had in the car, he said at the test it was around 3, but since then I think he said they moved the upper arm back a little giving it more caster, but it has not be realigned since, so he didn't know how much it was sitting with. The steering with a depowered stock rack with the car standing still was still really light, I am thinking you will be able to run a ton of caster in the car when all is said and done.

-Scott

No, sorry, as shim pointed out I just found it on FFR's site. I came up with this one courtesy of Scott L:



It gives a better representation of how far ahead of the wheels that the radiator is.

Unrelated but still interesting, I see by looking at the UCA adjustments that Jim has quite a bit of caster dialed in (generally that's all good for camber gain, stability and self centering). Yeah, I'm gonna' like this thing

Jeff

[NonProfit]

Looks great David! Feel like throwing a set of WRX wheels on the body with the modified vents?

[Vman7]

Revised Front Vent Area

I revised Vents A by moving the outer edge more to the ctr, curved top left ctr grille.


Attachment 10211

Front Vents A2 open


Attachment 10212

[imom]

Any chance of what you have now...with a coupe version David?

[xscott]

Can we get a uniform color instead of the stripe down the middle and some dark wheels Vman

[timmy318]

Well, from what I'm understanding is that this is only their racing version, they supposedly have another design cooking up for more "casual" use :P, look here at the middle of the page..... I don't know for sure but either 3 of these cars would be an honor to drive!

[Vman7]

Any chance of what you have now...with a coupe version David?

Maybe in the future, but for right now I need a 3/4 rear view for the coupe, to get more of an idea for the overall shape.

Can we get a uniform color instead of the stripe down the middle and some dark wheels Vman

I might be able to do that, take a little bit of work though, probably just be in blue, maybe another color like red later.
As far as wheels go, depends, if it's the same style of wheels, yes.

David

[timmy318]

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/..... whoops, here it is

[Vman7]

Soft Top, just a rough idea of one might look like.


Attachment 10213

[shinn497]

great work, but the soft top doesn't do it for me. Not your fault though, and your other renders are beautiful....

[Vman7]

great work, but the soft top doesn't do it for me. Not your fault though, and your other renders are beautiful....

Thanks! Yeah I am not a soft top fan myself, either spyder or targa/coupe are more my style.

[Vman7]

Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol


Attachment 10214

[Martin]

Yup.

I'm definitely looking forward to a coupe version.

Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol


Attachment 10214

[shinn497]

You know what is getting me is the way the back slopes down and the long roof. It looks too much like a chrysler or even a vehron.

Out of curiosity, could you do a revision of the street spyder with a black more aggressive lip?

[Kalstar]

I'm liking the soft top more than the hardtop coupe. Great work!

[DrieStone]

Ok know I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol


Attachment 10214

I'm digging this.

[kach22i]

Vman, a humble suggestion. Maybe you can improve upon this rough layout.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...%20and%20Ends/


EDIT: reference images
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/sh...Miles-Warranty
DSC_0001-1_small.jpg

http://www.sportscarcup.com/dodge-viper-srt10-coupe/
dodge-viper-srt10-coupe-side.jpg

http://www.sportscarcup.com/dodge-vi...oupe-backside/
dodge-viper-srt10-coupe-backside.jpg

http://www.bopmyspace.com/image_15/porsche_cayman
Porsche_Cayman.jpg

http://forums.subdriven.com/showthre...n-Appreciation
68515586.l5LPbQLW.MidnightBlueCaymanS.jpg

http://www.motoring.co.uk/car-pictur...icture_5801247
porsche-cayman-2011-aqua-blue-metallic-coupe-r-incs-2-years-porsche-approved-warranty-d08cf5a33b.jpg

[Oppenheimer]

I'm thinking FFR will want to go with a different 'look' for the Coupe. They will have time to work on a different design (Coupe not releasing till some time after Roadster). Either take one of the popular designs and make it fit, manufacturable, etc, or a whole new in-house design.

The Coupe is supposed to be the MPG version, so it needs to be slippery (where is Dan when we need him? Kidding.) The design we have now had different goals.

Besides, this is the opportunity for FFR to create different looks to attract a larger audience. Now, does it make sense to ultimately build a hardtop option for the Roadster? Sure. So it still makes sense to keep working on what the above could look like, but I'm thinking its more hardtop for Roadster look, not 818 Coupe look.

PS - I like where Kach is going with the Caymen roofline. I think that would look better on this car.