New 818 Look, Possible Future Mod.s

[FFR-ADV]

<<<<scratching head....I forget what's this thread about again?......rofl

Hi Vman,

I hope you don't mind my edits. They are possible modifications to the Factory Five 818 design using add on hardtops like those on other convertibles. In the FFR Roadster world several outside vendors provide hard tops, one is even developing a gull wing hardtop.

Thank you for the compliment. I did take some liberties with the top vent location to make the upper vent play off the lower vent. Since cuttouts are generally an option (for extra $ from FFR) I expect we could have that cutout left out and put one where it will work better with a Targa top. Black vinyl could force the shadow lines you have in your images. The rear window could be applied over hidden structure if it is darkened, but would still decrease some of the blind spot.

I would love it if you would put your special designer's touch to this concept. Thanks again!

Cheers!

[Vman7]

I don't think I am going to post anymore pics here anymore (this thread). Gets to the point where you don't know what's what, who did what, ends up being one big confusing mess. Always gets way off topic, not just in this thread but many, many others as well.

My Vantage thread got to the point where you didn't know which was actually the Vantage or some other yahoo's mod of it, just got confusing for those who came in the middle of the thread.

This is a common problem in forums, people hijacking threads. But it is what it is, not worth making big deal out of it.

David

[Vman7]

Hi Vman,

I hope you don't mind my edits. They are possible modifications to the Factory Five 818 design using add on hardtops like those on other convertibles. In the FFR Roadster world several outside vendors provide hard tops, one is even developing a gull wing hardtop.

Thank you for the compliment. I did take some liberties with the top vent location to make the upper vent play off the lower vent. Since cuttouts are generally an option (for extra $ from FFR) I expect we could have that cutout left out and put one where it will work better with a Targa top. Black vinyl could force the shadow lines you have in your images. The rear window could be applied over hidden structure if it is darkened, but would still decrease some of the blind spot.

I would love it if you would put your special designer's touch to this concept. Thanks again!

Cheers!

Yours are fine, at least you can still tell which car it is, either FFR or FFR's with small mod.s not the major changes, which get confusing.

Only thing I would change on yours is the upper side vent shape and the bottom end point, like I said sits back too far

[wallace18]

I am glad someone is stopping this thread. I am tired of all the edits. Can't we wait for the real thing?

[Vman7]

I am glad someone is stopping this thread. I am tired of all the edits. Can't we wait for the real thing?

Yeah and it's my thread, but you wouldn't know it. I guess some don't understand when I said "this thread is not about major changes"

Advice If you want to change the topic of a thread, then start your own thread about it.

This is why I will never again post an update to the Vantage Design Project again, any updates will go directly to Dave S. if he inquires about them, other then that NO.

[imom]

Vman, your contributions have been really good to 818 forum. A lot of folks just get excited about your concept and added some of their own feedbacks...if you didn't want feedback, just say it instead of clamming up. I did modify some of your vantage drawings in the vantage thread, but if you noticed in this thread, I never once touched any...just made requests.

Anyways...if you decide to not do anymore post of drawings... thanks for the vantage drawings...it was really pretty...especially the rear view... is my favorite.

P.s. Reading again on the last several posts, I can see some members did thread jack and went way off topic... Too bad we don't have a mod to direct traffic and tell those members to start a new post.

[NonProfit]

If I'm to blame for posting those other mid-engine designs, I'm sorry.

[VTX]

Vman,

Sorry your thread got wrecked. I was really liking your designs and I hope you start a new thread where we can discuss just your stuff.

[bromikl]

There's a way to prevent Hijacked Thread Syndrome. If the people making suggestions always post a current "official" rendition of the car being discussed, they'd be more likely to stay on topic.

[BipDBo]

Yeah and it's my thread, but you wouldn't know it. I guess some don't understand when I said "this thread is not about major changes"

Advice If you want to change the topic of a thread, then start your own thread about it.

This is why I will never again post an update to the Vantage Design Project again, any updates will go directly to Dave S. if he inquires about them, other then that NO.

Threads do get jacked, but I don't see that this thread has been jacked or wrecked at all. There are always subtopics to discuss. The mid-engine look subtopic, for example, was rooted in the question of whether the nose could/should be shortened and/or lowered.

As for major or minor changes, the title of the thread is"New 818 Look, Possible Future Mod.s" I don't think that it's such a major change and I think that it fits within this thread to envision this design as a coupe, targa or with an add on hard top.

It would be nice if some of the ideas proposed here are incorprated into the final product, but I'd bet that at this point, the chances of that are fairly slim. Vman, you've got some very good ideas, and have definately further improved the look of the car, but at this point, there probably quickly closing up the design so that they can move on to building moulds. Also, Dave doesn't seem all that cozy with the 818 forum lately either. This is all, therefore, really just for our entertainment anyway so let's just loosen up.

[mekeys]

Major changes ?????

I don't see any..

Mel

[enoyskt]

Major changes ?????

I don't see any..

Mel

I think Vman is talking about images of modifications that are more like structural alterations.

IE: (shorting or lengthing the front of the car and or hood)

These are structural changes that do not comply with what we are talking about "Minor Mods to the current image of the 818".

[GS guy]

I think I'm with you Vman. Your updates have really transformed the car, but going any further is just more BS speculation and basically chatter.
I do hope Dave can incoporate at least the intent of your mods in the front end before the molds are finalized, it just does so much to the overall looks of the car - like it's moving when standing still (as mentioned by another poster).

With Dave stating he's basically closing back off the info tap, looks like it's time to tune out until closer to November. Just too darned frustating wading through all the BS looking for real info. - especially on the daily basis (yes, I've been hooked too!) that I've been doing since the announcement of this car.

[Flamshackle]

^^^same I check this forum daily (or more) and now Im coming to terms with the fact that the few did actually spoil the brew.

So I will be gone till end of October now. I am deleting the Forum link from my browser so I don't waste any more time here...

See you great people end of October...

Flamshackle over and out.

[shim2]

I think I will be joining you guys. It's mostly just speculation, chatter and opinions about how the car needs to look. It really does suck a few soiled all the fun. Ah well. In the mean time I'll just prepare myself and my space for the 818.

[Vman7]

I read all the new posts, thanks for all the input

A couple I would like to address directly

If I'm to blame for posting those other mid-engine designs, I'm sorry.

Don't be, you didn't do anything.

There's a way to prevent Hijacked Thread Syndrome. If the people making suggestions always post a current "official" rendition of the car being discussed, they'd be more likely to stay on topic.

That's a very good idea, mostly in the Thread topic area.

Ok as to the rest of the recent posts. Thanks again for all the input

Most get the idea, it was the major changes to the front end lowering, shorting etc., that I was refering to about being major changes, not only in bodywork, but structural as well. I was trying to avoid that discussion in this thread, and stay mostly with minor changes that could be done either later by FFR or by people building the 818 themselves. And yes I did put one in about a Coupe, but if you notice I said "Ok now I know it's getting late and I am tried......lol" in post #114, which probably didn't help any, since I don't think a few read the post understanding the ...lol part.

I had no problem with the coupe ideas, since it doesn't exist, so it's not a major change or anything.

It's was the changing the front end in a major way and comparing it to other peoples car designs, which has nothing to do with the "current existing 818 design", which by the way again I have no problem with overall.

At this point, some people (not pointing finger at any one person here) just won't let go of certain overall car designs.

It is what it is, and some need to understand that, and support Dave and FFR, and not try to so called "force them" in a certain direction.

So for now, let all stay postive and patient and let Dave, Jim and the FFR Team do what they do best.

I will probably add some more little ideas, but not sure if I should start a new thread and put in the Topic area about being the "current 818 design" or something like that.

David

[ScottKoschwitz]

With Dave stating he's basically closing back off the info tap, looks like it's time to tune out until closer to November. Just too darned frustating wading through all the BS looking for real info. - especially on the daily basis (yes, I've been hooked too!) that I've been doing since the announcement of this car.

I agree. I've been following the development of the car since early last year, when I stumbled across it while searching for Lotus 7 kits. I went to the Open House last year, and followed the body design. Since things will be quiet, it's probably best to check in around SEMA. I considered going to this year's Open House, but I'll plan to attend the next year, when the R, and maybe even the street version, will be in the flesh. (I'll bring my checkbook just in case. )

[NonProfit]

Sounds like a lot of folks are planning on stepping away until SEMA.

In two weeks, Dave's "Milk Carton Guy" thread has nearly 22,000 views. This forum has some traffic, I hate to see it go dormant for six months (I enjoy it here)!

[bromikl]

Sadly, I have no delusions about FFR taking our suggestions on this design. I'm pretty sure they will make the molds from the render they've given us. I think your changes look great, and even Dave has said so. However in the same post he talked about how 2-D changes have "logarithmic" consequences.

It's fun to daydream; and I'm glad for the distraction while we wait, Vman7. Thanks.

[Vman7]

Sadly, I have no delusions about FFR taking our suggestions on this design. I'm pretty sure they will make the molds from the render they've given us. I think your changes look great, and even Dave has said so. However in the same post he talked about how 2-D changes have "logarithmic" consequences.

It's fun to daydream; and I'm glad for the distraction while we wait, Vman7. Thanks.

Dave is right about the "logarithic" consequences, whole different thing in the real world.

yeppers! it is fun to daydream......lol

Last night I had a thought, yes I know I could hurt my brain.........lol, anyhoot I keep forgetting about the Gallery Albums. I was thinking maybe I could do an album and have a link to it, that way people can just look at the pics, with out having to read though all the posts.

David

[Exidous]

Vman,

I just want to say that your mods to the body made a big improvement on getting it closer to the HoF status everyone is after. I personally don't think it's there yet but your mods certainly helped a ton. Keep it up!

Patrick

[Vman7]

I added a Album (Current 818 Design May 2012 Mod.s) so you can just look at the pics.

Go here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=337

Enjoy!

David

[Vman7]

I deleted all the pics in the Album for now, until I get all the updated ones done and uploaded.

Geezz...I guess I'll have to change all the ones in the thread to.......arhhhh.

All the new updated ones will have the new higher windshield, plus higher soft top and coupe.

David

[Vman7]

All new updated versions w/higher windshield.


Attachment 10334

Attachment 10335

Attachment 10336

Attachment 10337

Attachment 10338

New higher Soft Top & Coupe


Attachment 10339

Attachment 10340

New Album Link
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album...chmentid=10357

David

[Vman7]

I knew I forgot one......lol


Attachment 10366

[jimgood]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
overhang.jpg

[Vman7]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
overhang.jpg

It's an optical illusion, the orig (top one of your pics) actually wraps around the corner. Where as the bottom pic. (vents A2 & A2B) are just before going around to the side.

[Oppenheimer]

I think thats his point, not that it is longer, but that it makes it appear longer. I think he means there has already been talk that the overhang seems too long, suggestions it would look better with less, etc. And that while the grill mods shown in this thread look cool, one (potentially negative) side effect is they make the overhang appear longer.

His point is not something I noticed before, but now that he has pointed it out, I do see what he means. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that the grill (and other) mods really make the car look much nicer. But for those thinking the overhang is too long already, I can see how that POV.

[Silvertop]

I think thats his point, not that it is longer, but that it makes it appear longer. I think he means there has already been talk that the overhang seems too long, suggestions it would look better with less, etc. And that while the grill mods shown in this thread look cool, one (potentially negative) side effect is they make the overhang appear longer.

His point is not something I noticed before, but now that he has pointed it out, I do see what he means. Still, it doesn't change my opinion that the grill (and other) mods really make the car look much nicer. But for those thinking the overhang is too long already, I can see how that POV.

While the suggested change DOES look sort of cool, the grill as drawn by FFR has no real issues either. How much real function would the secondary vents actually provide? Brake cooling? Ground effects pressure relief? Something else? Is it worth doing from other than a cosmetic concern? Just thinking out loud......

[Xusia]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
overhang.jpg

I noticed that too. I think the lack of those vertical "tooth" things contributes to this as well. Ultimately, I don't care how long the hood appears. Just saying I agree with the observation.

While the suggested change DOES look sort of cool, the grill as drawn by FFR has no real issues either. How much real function would the secondary vents actually provide? Brake cooling? Ground effects pressure relief? Something else? Is it worth doing from other than a cosmetic concern? Just thinking out loud......

Vman's changes to the grill didn't add any vents that I am aware of. They are simply a reshaping of the lines and contours. Everything being discussed here is purely cosmetic, so there is no reason to make any changes from a functional standpoint.

[shim2]

Should do a quick no mods with soft top to get an idea how it will look if FFR sticks with the design they showed us.

[flynntuna]

I'm a big fan of the school of thought that form follows function. That said what ever Dave and his team come up with that meets the goals of high performance, easy to build, and low cost, while still being a good looking car, I think that meets my definition of HOF. If Vman7's changes improve on these goals, then I'm for it.

[Silvertop]

Should do a quick no mods with soft top to get an idea how it will look if FFR sticks with the design they showed us.

A good idea. Because FFR may very well do exactly that. I like some of the suggested cosmetic changes that Vman7 and others came up with (including alternate headlight configurations on another thread), but I suspect that the changes may make the body more difficult (and thus costlier) to manufacture. Just my 2 cents worth. particularly since it looks pretty good as is.........

[WonderDude]

The vent treatment makes the overhang appear longer
overhang.jpg

I personally like the one on the bottom. More appealing to me for some reason.

[Vman7]

ok, first off to answer the "does the new front mod.s add any function" Yes, you can't see it from this view, but there are brake ducts, if you look real close on the outer curved edge of the opening you will see the shadow.

I try to add function when I design stuff the best I can.

I am working on a front view to show just what is going on with the front vent/openings mod.s.

As far as the front appearing longer, it's mostly because of the 3point perspective drawing, the car looks way longer and wider up front then in back, look at how the rear tire is smaller etc. Plus Jim's design always had a short rear section, which in my opinion looked out of balance. The rear section should be a little longer to balance it out, but that is a major change, and for now FFR needs to get out a first design, that and other changes can happen later as the 818 develops further.

Remember what people call 3/4 3D drawings (actually 3point perspective in this case) can be deceiving.

Hope this kind of makes sense.....lol

I try and finish up the front view pic, so people can get a better idea.

David

[Vman7]

Here is a pic showing a comparison of the vents. Also showing where brake ducts would be. Possible Driving/Fog Light locations, just a mock-up for now.


Attachment 10369

I hope this helps some, at least until I get a front view done.

David

[riptide motorsport]

They all lookk good....Steven

[Nelff]

I must say, the nose with 'vents A2B' with the fog lights in the grill only is the best front end rendition that I have seen of Jim's (+Vman) design. I didn't like Jim's design when it came out. When I found out that it was to be the body style, I decided to put up some shelves and stain the deck, I was done. I'm not thrilled that there is a longish nose but, this design is getting better. I'm really beginning to wonder if someone is going to get an 818 and use it to produce a nose and tail that could be grafted on without to much trouble... Still waiting to see the final product. I'm still hoping that the shape is going to be something that is current, but will not look dated in 5 years still making me smile every time I see it in the garage...

[bromikl]

I think we're going to learn to love it. Jim's design is a looker as it is. If we HAD to drive the best looking car, we'd be trading in our wheels every time a newer model drives by.

Don't give up yet, Nelf. There are two more versions to come!

[Vman7]

I think we're going to learn to love it. Jim's design is a looker as it is. If we HAD to drive the best looking car, we'd be trading in our wheels every time a newer model drives by.

Don't give up yet, Nelf. There are two more versions to come!

Once the final first body design comes out, I think most will be happy with it. Just like the FFR cars in time the 818 will develop into something really sweet!