How much power do you plan to make?

[kmsgli]

God I feel like all my posts are questions but what type of vehicle is that for?

kmsgli, There are plans for a coupe 818 that will use the TDI drivetrain, but it won't come out until later. The initial versions will be roadster only with softtop. I for one don't mind the softtop. I have one on my miata and it serves me well even on rainy days.

WEll a TDI setup would be ideal, because then you could most likely make a vr6 work as they take will fit anywhener a VW 4 cyilinder fits (im guessing audi transaxle?). I just finished my 91 gli build. Vr6 turbo 450 whp very fun car to drive but a bit wasted on a fwd setup (thats the reason i stoped at 450 the setup is capable of much more).

Any idea how much longer between intial relase and hard top or possible TDI setup? I know intial relase is suppose to be earlier 2013. This project has me really excited.

[kmsgli]

The OEM computers are used a lot since they can be reflashed using Cobb's AccessPort or open source software (http://www.romraider.com/). I've never heard of someone using megasquirt on a street subaru, but I wouldn't be surprised if offroad guys use it for sandrails, etc.

Wow what a simple/cheap system. Seems I have been tunning the wrong cars all these years lol.

What a great way to tune i suppose megasquirt would be over kill for a subaru. Are there any downsides to romraiders?

[SkiRideDrive]

Its an SDR V-storm, an exocar, running a mid engined subaru setup a 2.0 EJ20 engine and a 5 speed box The SDR supplied gearchange is dash mounted resulting in long able runs and not so good gearchange. It was a long time coming as well. So I made my own floor mounted gearchange using some rod ends a rear suspension bellcrank from a motorbike and a toyota GT4 gearstick. I designed a few brackets and plates which I had laser cut and used 6mm push pull cables. I tried to keep it tidy looking as its on show. The end result below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/buckmoreboy/6954371758/

Below is an iimage of the gearshift minus a cover.

Attachment 10695

Nice. I miss tinkering with ideas and fabricating. Looking forward to getting back to it.

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

[shinn497]

WEll a TDI setup would be ideal, because then you could most likely make a vr6 work as they take will fit anywhener a VW 4 cyilinder fits (im guessing audi transaxle?). I just finished my 91 gli build. Vr6 turbo 450 whp very fun car to drive but a bit wasted on a fwd setup (thats the reason i stoped at 450 the setup is capable of much more).

Any idea how much longer between intial relase and hard top or possible TDI setup? I know intial relase is suppose to be earlier 2013. This project has me really excited.

No clue about the release schedule. We won't here any news until SEMA 2012.

[imnotted]

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

We did something similar in our car! We had a hand-clutch/shifter instead of a clutch pedal. It was a pain learning to launch, but once you got that down, all you had to do was let off and slap it to upshift. I kind of miss those projects...kind of.

OT: I'm targeting the 350-400hp range at the flywheel. We'll see if that happens. I'm fortunate to have an experienced Subie dyno tuner in my town, so rather than dick with it myself and make a mess of the engine, I'll probably take it to him after it's built and all the go fast parts are installed. I figure that if I can get somewhere in that range, I'll be around 300whp. 6lbs/hp is low enough, right? ...right?

[tmpst]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
In terms of power, it has a full Cosworth longblock with Darton sleeves, 2.6l billet crank, GT35R turbo, big fmic, Cosworth manifold intake, equal length headers, LINK ecu, etc...

I'll let you guess at how much power it currently makes, but I plan on detuning it to about 500hp for use in the 818. I'll push it back up when I'm comfortable with the car and my ability to not kill myself in it.

I hope to transfer as much of the upgraded parts as possible to the 818, unfortunately I'll need to purchase a new transmission, I'm looking at a 5 speed dogbox with sequential shifter from either Kaps or PPG (I haven't done much research into the tranny yet).

-t

[Zodiac]

So does anyone know what differences there will be between a base impreza and a wrx? Obviously turbo'd engine but if im planning on putting in a sti engine/ecu/harness what else would need to be upgraded? not sure if the axles from a base impreza and a wrx are stronger/weaker or other parts you know. Cause if i can find a good deal on a base model and get the engine and possibly tranny else where and it comes out to a good deal i might do that

[shinn497]

Zodiak I've asked this for a long time and would also like to know as well.

Imprezas are cheap. I think you could get one for 1-2k if you really tried (assuming its been in an accident). There was another thread that detailed more of the model differences between years, but I don't remember it. Try a forum search.

[Evan78]

Zodiac - that's really a can of worms that deserves its own thread. Search for whatever is out there already, read it over, and then reply or start a new thread if you still have questions.

[Zodiac]

hmmm guess it's time for more research then yea probably a separate thread haha

[Thorne]

Wow what a simple/cheap system. Seems I have been tunning the wrong cars all these years lol.

What a great way to tune i suppose megasquirt would be over kill for a subaru. Are there any downsides to romraiders?

I've tuned MS on mazdas for a couple of years and honestly a 02/03 ECU running Carberry/GrpN is more reliable and powerful imho.

[Evan78]

Are there any downsides to romraiders?

Downside to romraider when compared to what? As far as I know, the Cobb software is better, but is more expensive. For the Cobb AccessPort user, AccessTUNER Race is what you need to do you own tuning. I've never used either to do my own tuning, I've only used off the shelf maps and paid for custom dyno tunes.

[Thorne]

From a tuners point of view ROMRAIDER is just as powerful as Cobb on all 16bit cars (02-05WRX) and on the 02-03 It's even more powerful than the cobb offering. Cobb is only really useful if you want to run multiple boost levels (Stock control vs Aftermarket) or racegas/e85 and be able to switch. But considering this is a grassrooots type build you could purchase your own Tactrix cable and reflash your own maps vs buying a cobb..

Both solutions are reprogramming the stock ecu. As soon as I get my hands on a "stock" 818 I plan on releasing free stage 1 maps (Stock) for the platform. I can do this for both Cobb and non cobbb as I'm a cobbprotuner.

[Thorne]

Also cobb's datalog viewer sucks and most protuners who tune Open source Subarus use a product called ECUEDIT. Check it out if your interested in tuning your own car. It has quite a few very nice features that make it worth the cost.

[Evan78]

I'm going to have to order the AccessTuner Race software just so I can check it out.

How does romraider compare to Cobb on the 32bit ecus? Does the realtime feature on the Cobb save much time? Seems like a nice feature to have for someone that spends a lot of time doing custom tunes.

Any idea on what percentage of cars you tune using Romraider vs Cobb? I wonder what the marketshare looks like for Cobb vs open source.

[tmpst]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
In terms of power, it has a full Cosworth longblock with Darton sleeves, 2.6l billet crank, GT35R turbo, big fmic, Cosworth manifold intake, equal length headers, LINK ecu, etc...

Well, so much for that plan. The garage where the car is worked on recently burned down and my engine was destroyed. The car itself is okay, but I plan on selling it. FWIW, the engine was dynoed at 617hp on 94 octane pump gas.

In a way it's a good thing, I'll be using the insurance money to build a much tamer engine (looking for 400hp) and the 818 itself. In fact, I'll probably have money left over.

But I'm still kinda sad.

-t

[Sebxb]

The garage where the car is worked on recently burned down and my engine was destroyed.

Lachute?

[Mechie3]

In a way it's a good thing, I'll be using the insurance money to build a much tamer engine (looking for 400hp) and the 818 itself. In fact, I'll probably have money left over.

But I'm still kinda sad.

-t

That's the boat I was in. My daily driver/former autocross 06 WRX was wrecked in a car accident. Between insurance, selling parts, and buying back the car I have a donor and am up ~$14k. It's a "free" 818. I missed the car for a month or so, but have since gotten over it and am pumped to get a free 818.

[tmpst]

Lachute?

Oui.

[Niburu]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.

This. I'll be plenty happy with a car that has a 10:1 Weight to Power ratio. I'd like to keep my driving privileges.

same here

[longislandwrx]

I would love to run 12 flat, and still be competitive on track days. perfect. car.

[Silvertop]

same here

Well, Hello Niburu! Does your comment indicate that you plan to install NA donor parts in a wife pre-approved but otherwise track-oriented 818-R, or just that you approve of the concept of retaining driving privileges?

Incidentally, my intention to go NA is now pretty much etched in stone. I ponied up my 5K for an NA donor pallet from AWJ's Beta Donor Program a couple of months back. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to have them install the cams and valve springs before they ship, or do it myself....

Can't wait for the SEMA reveal!

[rjh2pd]

These push pull cables remind me of my Formula SAE days when I designed a shifter for the sequential motorcycle transmission which would automatically disengage the clutch on downshifts to allow for easier matching of revs as we didn't run a clutch pedal.

Nice, where did you go to school? I'm on the Mizzou team now. Our new car looks to be much better than last years.

[metalmaker12]

Nice, where did you go to school? I'm on the Mizzou team now. Our new car looks to be much better than last years.

My ej207 version 8 will put down 300whp- 380whp depending on tune. My friend's shop tunes these car everyday and made 375whp with a stock ej207 vesion 8, with a turboback and intake on an open source tune. I have heard of 400whp with stock ej207's.

With 400 crank hp the 818kg will have a power to weight of 0.222 20,000k

The 2013 Ferrari Berlinatta has a power to weight of 2.17 330,000k

The top end of an ej207 can rev to 8600 and with Jun cams and a slightly ported vf37 or similar flowing turbo and tune to 9k rpms strong.
Not saying the my 818 will have the top end of a v12 730hp ferrari, but off the line it will be close, which is really impressive to me.

[shinn497]

Not to mention the vf37 is a twin scroll turbo and will kick on earlier.

What kind of gas could net those figures? That would seem to require racegas/e85/meth .

[metalmaker12]

Not to mention the vf37 is a twin scroll turbo and will kick on earlier.

What kind of gas could net those figures? That would seem to require racegas/e85/meth .

93 octane works good for the stock injector setup. Some try a 50/50 mix with 93/100, but not needed, unless you want flames

[Niburu]

same here

Well, Hello Niburu! Does your comment indicate that you plan to install NA donor parts in a wife pre-approved but otherwise track-oriented 818-R, or just that you approve of the concept of retaining driving privileges?

a bit of both
My 818 will be pulling double duty as an HPDE/Autocross/good weather streeet car, essentially it'll be replacing the Miata
I may wait a bit to see what the coupe and/or mountable hardtop winds up looking like, while the 818-R looks good, it's not what I'm lookng for.
First off I have a pair of houses to unload in Virginia amd get a bit more settled here in upstate NY.
The good thing about being up here is access to way more Subarus at lower prices.

[timmy318]

All these are still up in the air but here are some of the options that I'm looking at:
• Cold air Intake
• Catless down-pipe (Illegal though )
• Catback exhaust
• Turbo headers, larger inter-cooler,
• Larger diameter inter-cooler piping
• Boost timer
• 2-step launch control
• Most importantly, a tune

[Kasmodean]

I like the idea of having 300+ whp too but is it really possible in the long term?

In the 818 set up, we are removing 1/2 of the power delivery drivetrain. Assuming the tires remain hooked up... A 300+ whp 818 will make the differential see the power of a 600+ WRX. Some people are talking 400+ hp so that means a differential would see an 800+ hp WRX. I say differential, but obviously is it all parts between engine and wheels.

[Xusia]

I don't know that the forces work that way, but regardless, I've definitely scaled back my HP plans after some careful thinking. Sure, I'd always love more, but I also know what's like to reign in a high HP beast. At the end of the day, drive-ability and cornering ability is more important to me than sheer acceleration or top speed. With a car this light, I believe too much HP or torque will make it difficult to drive well/fast.

[JAubin]

I've been following this thread, and I keep jumping around from Stage 2 Level (ie 260ish Crank HP) on up to "Stage 4" Level (300+ Crank HP ) which involves a new turbo, fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, etc. My thought is that the bigger power number will come at the big cost of low end torque w/ the 2.0L motor (what I'll be using) and in addition, if you put on a huge turbo and make a ton of power you're easily approaching supercar power:weight ratios. I personally want to figure out how this car will handle the lower power first, and also have the awesome early spool up you get w/ the stock turbo and stage 2. The 818 is 2/3 the weight of a WRX so it'll be way quicker, but you can't use that math for the drivetrain as in a HP multiplier. Yes the axles will see a higher load than normal IF you have traction. The drivetrain losses are reduced since you're not trying to power 4 wheels though, so more of that will get to the ground (again assuming you have traction).

timmy318, a cold air intake is more trouble that it's worth from everything I've read.

[WonderDude]

I'm gonna try and stick one of THESE in mine!

[Xusia]

A stage 2 (ish) 2.0L is what I'm planning as well. If I want more power after that, there's nothing stopping me from upgrading the 2.0L further. Or I can switch to a 2.5L (I don't the rewiring; it's time consuming but easy). In the best of all worlds I'd be able to mate an H6 to the 5 speed. Maybe someday...

[timmy318]

timmy318, a cold air intake is more trouble that it's worth from everything I've read.

Yea, I heard about that too. Personally, I plan to make about 200-250whp, not much of an upgrade compared to what other people are saying but I think that is more than enough for a daily driver that can still be able to use on the track. What I really want to do is have 2 modes, on for everyday use which limits certain things to provide the best fuel economy, and then a track mode which kinda will let everything fly ! But seriously, I agree with you, 400whp+ is probably too much for this little car unless you seem to have a death wish by rocket!

[papajon1000]

Not exactly sure where I will end up power wise. As a side note, I think without the drive shaft, the extra differential, and axle shafts a stage 2 (ej255) engine will be very close to 300 whp. Maybe aim to make a bit more power than I do in my LGT (currently at about 320 whp / 340 wtq).

My plans for now include:
e 85 (dw 300 lph, dw 1300 cc injectors)
upgraded inter cooler (possibly air to water)
turboback exhaust (including grimmspeed ported headers and up pipe)
intake (I have one currently and know how to properly tune for one, plus I love the turbo sounds from it)
tgv deletes
innovate lc1 wideband

Turbo wise I will be looking at:
vf52- came out of 2008+ wrx, can make more than 300 whp on pump gas and has the correct configuration for wrx intercoolers
vf 39,43,48 - sti turbos, all can make over 300 whp
fp 68 hta (or i guess fp 71 hta)- if I go aftermarket this will probably be the one I will get, the 68 has similar to stock spool but with much increased flow can support 350+ whp (on e85) the 71 is new but the site says it can support 425 whp which is a bit more than i want right away
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...Code=WRX-Turbo

if I feel like going big and want a stock location turbo I will look at the dom 1.5 xtr. 400+ whp capable and ball bearing center section for reliability
http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...rger_p_25.html

[longislandwrx]

My donor car is an '04 STI wide-body that I use for time-trials.
-t

do you still have the trans that came out of that car?

[Benji]

a bit of both
My 818 will be pulling double duty as an HPDE/Autocross/good weather streeet car, essentially it'll be replacing the Miata
I may wait a bit to see what the coupe and/or mountable hardtop winds up looking like, while the 818-R looks good, it's not what I'm lookng for.
First off I have a pair of houses to unload in Virginia amd get a bit more settled here in upstate NY.
The good thing about being up here is access to way more Subarus at lower prices.

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

[Xusia]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp

Is that because they don't know what they're missing?!? JUST KIDDING!!! LOL

[ScottKoschwitz]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

I thought the same thing when I read that post. I'm also leaning more toward an NA engine. Essentially, I'm looking for a cheap Lotus Elise alternative, so I'd like a high-revving NA engine. Anyone know if the NA 2.5-liter engines like to rev?

I used to think an Elise revved high. Then I watched videos of the motorcycle-engined Fisher Fury.

[Etos]

Isn't it funny how Miata drivers think alike and are happy with 'only' 200bhp

If I were to do an 818 I would probably go the NA route. Being that my 99 Miata is some 150kg heavier than the 818 (provided they hit their goal) and I'm probably down to 130-140bhp at the flywheel, I know an 818kg car (which has the potential to be even lighter than 818kg!) with 200bhp at the fly is going to be very quick. It would be nice if you could get 200bhp at the wheels but I'm guessing that's asking a bit much from the NA block, though someone was claiming they were going to get 270-300bhp at the wheels from the NA block?!

That would be me. I never said though that it WILL make that, just that is my goal. I still haven't talked to Dom about it since he is the engine builder and would know best on the subject. 200hp is fairly easy to get from a non built block NA. I'm gonna go destroked long rod with super high compression pistons and massive cams. How much power that is gonna make who knows but I would be real happy with 300.