Willwood clutch pedal fix update?

[Rootbeer Roadster]

I understand you are working on a fix for the clutch pedal. Can you share a picture of what you have in the works and when it may become available?

Jeff

[Rootbeer Roadster]

I'm bumping this to the top and hoping for an answer.

Jeff

[mcwho]

I have the wilwood pedal box, as of yet I am not aware of what the clutch pedal problen is. Please advise?

[Rootbeer Roadster]

I have the wilwood pedal box, as of yet I am not aware of what the clutch pedal problen is. Please advise?

The original cast Willwood clutch pedal has broken due to twisting loads imposed by the offset clutch quadrant. Factory Five has designed a fix of some type. I'm hoping they will be able to provide an update now that SEMA is over.

Jeff

[ehansen007]

I spoke with Jim about this at SEMA and he said they were going to start shipping them soon. I'm hoping this takes away the creaking as the load should be more distributed across the box to the quadrant but we'll see.

[Rootbeer Roadster]

I was told they are shipping this week. I also had a creaking sound that went away when I sprayed some lube on the pivot points.

[Tony Zullo]

Hi guys we are sending the clutch quadrent out as we speek ,it will be a big improvment.

[CJBergquist]

How far back in time does this problem go?

[NICK C]

Do you have to contact FF or what.

[Rootbeer Roadster]

Has anyone received the new parts yet?

[Avalanche325]

I have a base kit but added the Wilwood pedals later. Do I need to call, or will I be on the list?

[ehansen007]

Nothing yet here but they did ship out from what I was told.

[CJBergquist]

It's been two weeks since Tony Zullo said they were shipping the new/replacement quadrants. Has anyone received one???

Also, FFR, who needs this fix and who gets one???

[Rootbeer Roadster]

It's been two weeks since Tony Zullo said they were shipping the new/replacement quadrants. Has anyone received one???

Also, FFR, who needs this fix and who gets one???

I asked about a week ago and was told they were in negotiations with Willwood and everything was on hold until that was figured out. I'm not sure what that means. I just hope the fix is ready before my pedal breaks. It's driving season here and I'm using the car often.

[John4337]

I spoke to FFR yesterday and was told that the fix only applies to the one piece pedals, those with the ones with separate pads are good to go.

[CJBergquist]

So, are these the pedals with the problem?

[Rotorcraft]

Interesting, I just received. MK4 complete kit on 12/2 and am currently inventorying all the parts, I haven't heard anything from F5 on this subject.

[ram_g]

You guys that are new to building Roadsters really ought to head out to the "other forum" to snoop around and do some research, even if you don't stay there. The pedal issue has been covered in depth, as has all the other minor and major things that you'll encounter that FFR didn't tell you about.

I think its great that FFR have their own forum now, but this place is relatively new. The majority of the history and knowledge about where all the bodies are buried is still over there.

Back to this thread, unless FFR issues some sort of comprehensive redesign, you are much better off switching too a hydraulic clutch system. It isn't that expensive, all the parts and pieces have been identified and at least one of our vendors sells a kit that contains everything. It will not be the last time you "upgrade" something that FFR provides - that's all part of the game of building one these kits.

[Jason Lavigne]

Hi guys,

Here's an update so that everyone knows the status. To be clear, I'll just list the important points:
- If you have a Wilwood Pedal Box with the one-piece, cast pedals (as in CBergquist's photo above), you can expect to receive the parts and the tech bulletin. These pedal boxes were shipped with Complete Roadsters, Complete Coupes, '33 Hot Rods, and sometimes as individual assemblies added to base kits.
- If you have a Wilwood Pedal Box with the bolt-on pedal surfaces, you're unaffected and won't need to do anything.
- Tony Zullo's post from the 14th was correct at the time, but we ended up going back to make a few more changes to ensure all affected pedalboxes were covered and that quantity of parts we had in house was sufficient, so the shipment was held here.
- About half of the parts went out yesterday, 12/4/12, and I expect the rest to be sent between today and Thursday, 12/5 and 12/6.

If you have any other questions, just give a call at 508-291-3443 or email [email protected].

Jason @ FFR

[GWL]

So, let's start building some history here too. Yes Chris, those are the older Wilwood pedals that have had clutch breakage problems. I've included a picture of the updated Wilwood pedals here. Note the footpads are removable and adjustable from side to side. A nice option. In addition note the webbing within the pedal arms. I have not heard of any problems with the new pedals.

However, with the newer style pedals some have had to notch their 3/4" tubing to allow a full swing of the clutch pedal. I have the 1st Mk4 and got the older set, which I later sold and bought the upgraded pedals. I am going to use Mike Forte's hydraulic set up and will also notch my tubing and then reinforce it. Edit added: The notching, I believe is only 'possibly' required with the hydraulic systems depending on the size of master cylinder used.



Rotorcraft, you should have the newer set of Wilwood pedals. Compare them to my picture.

ram_g is correct, there is a lot of history at ffcars.com. You will find pictures and discussions about the notching of the tubing too.

George

Edit: Looks like Jason kinda beat me to it. But the picture will help you to understand the difference.

[Jacob McCrea]

I am going to use Mike Forte's hydraulic set up and will also notch my tubing and then reinforce it.

George, for what it's worth, before you cut into the frame I would consider, if you haven't already, going with a bigger clutch master cylinder and installing a "pedal stop" on the frame. The bigger master cylinder should give you the same result as a longer pedal stroke with a smaller master cylinder. The only downside is that the clutch will likely be heavier and grab faster. I admit I have not yet done this myself, but I think it would work well.

[Steak]

Thanks, Jason

Hi guys,

Here's an update so that everyone knows the status. To be clear, I'll just list the important points:
- If you have a Wilwood Pedal Box with the one-piece, cast pedals (as in CBergquist's photo above), you can expect to receive the parts and the tech bulletin. These pedal boxes were shipped with Complete Roadsters, Complete Coupes, '33 Hot Rods, and sometimes as individual assemblies added to base kits.
- If you have a Wilwood Pedal Box with the bolt-on pedal surfaces, you're unaffected and won't need to do anything.
- Tony Zullo's post from the 14th was correct at the time, but we ended up going back to make a few more changes to ensure all affected pedalboxes were covered and that quantity of parts we had in house was sufficient, so the shipment was held here.
- About half of the parts went out yesterday, 12/4/12, and I expect the rest to be sent between today and Thursday, 12/5 and 12/6.

If you have any other questions, just give a call at 508-291-3443 or email [email protected].

Jason @ FFR

[GWL]

George, for what it's worth, before you cut into the frame I would consider, if you haven't already, going with a bigger clutch master cylinder and installing a "pedal stop" on the frame. The bigger master cylinder should give you the same result as a longer pedal stroke with a smaller master cylinder. The only downside is that the clutch will likely be heavier and grab faster. I admit I have not yet done this myself, but I think it would work well.

Jacob,

You are probably correct. I will install the system first and get it working before I notch the frame. Mikes clutch set up has gone through several changes over time. I have actually up-sized from his original 13/16" to 7/8" while I have read about others using 1" or even 1-1/8" masters to a 7/8" slave. I'll work with it when I get to the go-kart stage this winter. I've also speculated, in the past, that different pressure plates may require different amounts of movement to fully release. Again, those discussions can also be found at ffcars.

Thanks, George

[ram_g]

George, good posts.

I want to state that my comments above and those that I'm about to make are NOT to be interpreted as bashing FFR - in fact, I've already started working on the wife to approve an 818 after the Mk3.1 is done! It is all about expectation management. Mainline car manufacturers like Toyota, Honda etc. have whole armies of engineers and billion dollar factories and still screw up every now and then. It is amazing that FFR puts out as good a product as they do for the size of company that they are. Every so often there is something about their kits that just doesn't work well, and that's where the support of these forums and of the vendor community comes in.

I honestly believe that the adaptation of the Wilwood pedal box to a cable clutch system is one of those areas that does not work well. The pedals are designed for the in-line forces that a hydraulic system provides, not the twisting forces imparted by the cable adaptation. I am sure the forged pedals (the ones with the webbed design) are much stronger than the cast pedals (originally supplied) but fundamentally they are being placed into service for something other than what they were conceived for originally. Now philosophically you can say that this is true for the entire FFR concept, because clearly Mustang and Subaru parts are being used outside their original design intent, so I acknowledge the weakness of the argument. But changing to a hydraulic clutch system is so easy, and relatively inexpensive, and the results are so good, that I honestly don't know why everybody doesn't do it and why FFR doesn't simply add $200 to the cost of the kit and supply it that way from the get go.

[Jason Lavigne]

To add one more comment, in line with what Jacob and George were talking about....

If you're new to the discussion and just installing your pedal box (like the one George pictured above), I wouldn't jump straight to cutting into the chassis. In building your car, you're free to do whatever you wish for customization, but I'd give the clutch a try first. Chances are, you have the throw you need, particularly if you're not really tall.

Jason @ FFR

[billybobracing]

Hey Jason, will the upgrade be available for purchase? We bought the Mk 3.1 through Western Canada C cars and the pedal box for the Mk 4 was purchased from a forum member. I would like to upgrade both this winter if possible.
Thanks
Bill

[Rotorcraft]

So, let's start building some history here too. Yes Chris, those are the older Wilwood pedals that have had clutch breakage problems. I've included a picture of the updated Wilwood pedals here. Note the footpads are removable and adjustable from side to side. A nice option. In addition note the webbing within the pedal arms. I have not heard of any problems with the new pedals.

However, with the newer style pedals some have had to notch their 3/4" tubing to allow a full swing of the clutch pedal. I have the 1st Mk4 and got the older set, which I later sold and bought the upgraded pedals. I am going to use Mike Forte's hydraulic set up and will also notch my tubing and then reinforce it. Edit added: The notching, I believe is only 'possibly' required with the hydraulic systems depending on the size of master cylinder used.



Rotorcraft, you should have the newer set of Wilwood pedals. Compare them to my picture.

ram_g is correct, there is a lot of history at ffcars.com. You will find pictures and discussions about the notching of the tubing too.

George

Edit: Looks like Jason kinda beat me to it. But the picture will help you to understand the difference.

THANKS- I am just finishing up inventory, and should get to that box tonight. Sounds like I may go hydrolic based on comments of this thread , Thanks!

[Rotorcraft]

THANKS- I am just finishing up inventory, and should get to that box tonight. Sounds like I may go hydrolic based on comments of this thread , Thanks!

My Complete MK4 Kit which had a build completion date at the factory of 11/3 and was picked up 11/1 FFR#7951 came with the new pedal set up as pictured above.


Thanks-

Jeff

[bsnyder]

Jason,

Are you sending out the new pedals based on your records or do we have to request you send them?

Thanks,

Bruce

[CJBergquist]

Jason, thanks for the update. George, etal, thanks for all the added information.

So Jason, can this fix be done on a completed car? Estimated hours?

[GWL]

Jason, thanks for the update. George, etal, thanks for all the added information.

So Jason, can this fix be done on a completed car? Estimated hours?

I have a friend that replaced his broken clutch pedal with the new style. He was on his back with his feet in the air for a while but he got it done. I don't, however, know what else FFR has in mind for their 'Fix'.

George

[bsnyder]

I received the fix today. So, now I'm wondering which would be the smarter move (install the fix or order the new pedals).

[Rootbeer Roadster]

I received the fix today. So, now I'm wondering which would be the smarter move (install the fix or order the new pedals).

What parts are included with the fix? Pictures?

Jeff

[CJBergquist]

Bruce, what did you receive? Photo???

[CJBergquist]

Found this on the web. Looks like you get a adapter that changes the way the pedal actuates the clutch quadrant and some sheet metal to make a foot book cover out of. Oh, and some instructions.

[bsnyder]

Bruce, what did you receive? Photo???

Chris,

I received the same fix you posted in the pictures you found on the web. The harded part is removing the snap ring holding the clutch quadrant on. It's not off yet. I'm out of town. So, I try to remove it this weekend. Once it's off the rest should be easy. Right.

Bruce

[CJBergquist]

I sure hope so.