Coyote Competition Coupe

[Made_In_America]

Too bad you had troubles but thanks for posting your issues. It will help us future Coyote Coupe builders avoid some headache.

[tcoon]

thanks for the comments Bill they are greatly appreciated. In fact my next step is to complete the belly pans and add side skirts, I am thinking down to 4" or so from the ground, to reduce side air intrusion. I will eventually add data, although frankly I am not a good enough driver at this point to tell my inconsistencies vs. aero improvement. I just know the car feels amazingly fast and stable! so I'll keep forging ahead. Probably will have o switch to hydraulic clutch as there is just not enough real estate for a cable setup.

[tcoon]

MIA that's the plan...plow the ground with the development work so future coyote coupe builders can avoid some of the frustrations!

[CHOTIS BILL]

tcoon,

Adding data is not just for the pro drivers. It is a great tool to improve you driving skills especially if you have a system that you can share data with other drivers. Being able to compare braking points, turning points, when you are back on the throttle, and speed through a corner can improve your driving very quickly. The last system I had was a GPS system and the data could be downloaded to Google Earth and I could compare how different lines affected lap times and how they compared to others. On top of this you can collect all kinds of data about how a change to you setup changes performance. You can make sensors using inexpensive rotary linear pots to check ride height on each corner, throttle position and steering angle which can give you a massive amount information about how you are driving and what the car is doing. Just something to keep in mind.

Keep us in the loop,

Bill Lomenick

[tcoon]

Thanks for the comments. I am definitely aware of the value of data. I ran a traqmate for two years on my challenge car but it was constantly broken. Am trying to decide now which system to buy, and really just focusing on learning the car and getting it reliable, then I will proceed to making the nut behind the wheel less dysfunctional!

[kabacj]

Thanks for the comments. I am definitely aware of the value of data. I ran a traqmate for two years on my challenge car but it was constantly broken. Am trying to decide now which system to buy, and really just focusing on learning the car and getting it reliable, then I will proceed to making the nut behind the wheel less dysfunctional!

Hi Tom

In am really enjoying your build. I'm in a similar stage working out the bugs in my track focused GTM.

Regarding data acquisition. I decided to go with the Stack DVL. It wil log all of your ecu parameters as well as 3 cameras of video all on a compact flash card . This way at track all you need to do is swap cards and you can record data endlessly. It also has software for analysis that seems pretty good.

I wanted a video/data recorder that is absolutely hands off and trouble free but very flexible and feature rich. Hopefully I got that.

Ill let you know. Keep up the good work.

John

[CHOTIS BILL]

If and when you are ready for another data system I would suggest talking with Veracity Racing. http://veracitydata.com/Veracity_Rac...a/Welcome.html I have no connection with them except we were race track friends when I was racing. They handle many different systems and are very knowledgeable and helpful. They are also good people. They sometimes have used systems people have traded in on newer ones.

Bill Lomenick

[johngeorge]

I run Racepak's G2X or IQ3 dataloggers and find them great! they have obd2 so they can datalog ECU stuff.

[kabacj]

If and when you are ready for another data system I would suggest talking with Veracity Racing. http://veracitydata.com/Veracity_Rac...a/Welcome.html I have no connection with them except we were race track friends when I was racing. They handle many different systems and are very knowledgeable and helpful. They are also good people. They sometimes have used systems people have traded in on newer ones.

Bill Lomenick

HA thats where I got my Stack setup! Very VERY good experience. I have no connection with these guys either. I just found them on the internet.

John

[Tom Mauldin]

Thanks Tom for all of the information! I have to say that you messed me up when I saw your coupe in Huntington Beach. I had it all planned out, but after seeing your coupe I have decided to go the Coyote route as well. Keep the info coming, as I plan to order the coupe kit once I finish the 4 roadsters that are in the garage now. Thanks.

[tcoon]

Thanks guys for the info on data...there is so much out there it's hard to make a choice. that will likely be my next major purchase.

Tom...glad to hear I rocked your world! I must agree this coyote package has far exceeded my expectations. I have to give credit to Dave Smith...he really encouraged me to go this route after putting the coyote in his roadster, and Man was he right! This baby rocks! Once the sorting is complete this will be a track monster.

Hydraulic clutch setup on order from Mike Forte, that should fix the clutch cable melting issue...then on to whatever the next problem is that pops up!

[Born in wrong Era]

I am doing research prior to starting my build. Were there any modifications needed to the engine mounting area in order to get it to fit? (i.e., motor mounts, shifts in the welded tabs on the frame forward or backward) What is the clearance between the top of the intake and the bottom of the hood? One more question. You mention in a previous post "This requires the coyote roadster upgrade kit from FFR..." Where can I find information on this upgrade kit? Is it in the parts catalog? Is it something you ask them about during the ordering process?

I love what have done with the car, and hope to be driving my own in a few years.

[tcoon]

Born in wrong...no modifications to the engine mounts were required, it uses the same mounts, bell housing as the previous mod motors. The engine does sit 1 1/2" more forward than old school 5.0...a good thing! The footbox mods, headers and j-pipes from ffr can be bought with a phone call to them, not yet in the catalogue. Great clearance at the top of the engine, that's one of the beauties of this setup. I actually had to RAISE the engine 3/8" with Whitby motor mount spacers to gain clearance at the bottom for the j-pipes, but still over an inch of space at the top. There is probably not room for the Boss intake though.

[Born in wrong Era]

With your response sparked new questions. The next set of questions is predicated on the notion I would design and fabricate my own headers. Would you have needed to raise the engine if you had fabricated the headers? If you did not need to raise it, could it (the engine) be lowered at all? I do not want to use the Boss intake but do have a similar one in mind. Thank you so much for your insight and thorough response. I really appreciate it!

[tcoon]

Header design on your own could be done but the space is VERY tight. Stainless headers makes a very cool set I may change to, as they seem to fit higher in the frame and should give more horsepower, eliminating the current j pipe kink at the frame. Don't think you could Lower the engine much more, as it already hangs at the bottom of the frame rails with the oil pan in jeopardy if you go lower...and I already used the shallow Moroso pan. Everything already designed to very close tolerances!

[Born in wrong Era]

Thank you so much for your help and knowledge. I wish you the best of luck in your racing endeavors.

[tcoon]

My last race weekend was marred by a faulty power steering pump and melting clutch cables x 2. I have spent the last week resolving those issues and completing the aero mods started prior to the last race.

The clutch cable issue was rather vexing. I had tried to pass the clutch cable in the safest possible way away from heat, but to no avail. There is a serious shortage of room for the cable with the Coyote install, and the engine sits 1 1/2" farther forward than an old school 5.0, so the cable is just a little short to begin with.

Enter a hydraulic clutch kit from Mike Forte. The install was straightforward, a simple bolt on, but since the car is done and body installed, a little more complicated to get inside the footbox. I decided to cut an access panel in the side of the footbox, and combined with the hinged door already installed at the inside top of the box, there was plenty of room to make the switch. I am pleased to say the new clutch feel is a dream, and I cant believe I didn't make this switch years ago!

The power steering pump was already replaced at the track, so that left time for me to complete my aero package. Two individual side belly pans were fabbed from 16 ga aluminum, and mated to the front inner fender wells. a 1 1/4" lip extended down laterally just at the edge of the outer frame rail, and to that are bolted removeable polycarbonate panels that extend to within 2 1/4" of the ground. This should act as an air dam to keep the low pressure air under the car and high pressure air out. at least thats the theory! The result is a smooth underbelly with a clean exit to the diffuser, the ultimate goal being increased rear downforce.

AS a final finishing touch I added front "Coonards" to add some needed downforce there particularly on those high speed sweepers. They were made from the same aluminum and sprayed with truck bed liner coating for a little protection.

The result...invisible side skirts, minimalist spoilers and canards, an integrated diffuser and minimal disruption of the classic good looks! Now its off to the races!

[frankeeski]

Looks great Tom. Julie and I are looking forward to seeing you and the Coupe on track next weekend. We can't wait!

[CHOTIS BILL]

Looking good. You should notice a difference all those mods but only testing will tell for sure. One problem I ran into when I closed off the bottom of the engine compartment was higher oil temps because of not enough air could pass through and I had to open up an area to let more air out.

Good luck and let us know how you did.

Bill Lomenick

[tcoon]

Yes I did notice higher oil temps even before the pans so I have added an oil cooler. This should be an interesting weekend! Hopefully lots of test and not much tune!

[tcoon]

I have had a number of PM's regarding the brake setup I chose for my competition coupe. I had previous experience with the stock Mustang Cobra brakes on my Challenge car, and they were pretty good...but since this car is much faster and a little heavier, I was concerned they would not be up to the task. Karen Salvaggio had a lot of problems with brake failure on her previous racing coupe, and they were Wilwoods designed for street, not racing use. I did some research and found that 85% of professional road race teams use AP Racing brakes, so that is the choice I made, since the ultimate plan is to use this car for endurance racing.

I ordered a Stillen front brake kit designed for 1998 Mustang Cobra, picked to match the stock Mustang master cylinder. I figured this would mate well with the Wilwood setup in the coupe and that has been correct. This is a 4 piston caliper, and has very thick pads, great for endurance racing. Since the calipers are also very thick however, wheel choice is an issue...the FFR Halibrands will not fit without spacers. I am using Enkei RPF-1, a lightweight fairly inexpensive racing wheel with a good track record; this combination gives about 1/4" clearance between wheel and caliper...tight but adequate. I chose the 13" 2 piece DBA slotted rotors, the largest that will fit with 17" wheels. Don't use drilled rotors, they crack.

On the rear I am using SN95 Mustang Cobra calipers with the 11" Moser big brake kit, vented rotors.

With the Wilwood pedal box, my MC's are screwed about midway in, with approx 1/4" thread still showing. The balance bar is slightly biased toward the front (with pedal depressed), but overall fairly even. I also use a Wilwood cable adjuster for the balance bar for fine tuning, but little has been necessary.

I am using Carbotech xp10 pads front and rear, and man do they grip! We have many years experience with these in the Challenge Series, and they last extremely well. On the street they feel almost like power brakes. On the track they STOP. And they never fade.

They are still manual brakes, but they are powerful and easy to modulate. There is a lot of talk on the forum (mostly by people who have not built a car or driven on a track) about the rear weight bias and need for bigger rear brakes. So far that has not been necessary. Years of experience racing the Challenge series has proven the stock Mustang rear brakes are enough..let face it, they're backed by a hundred years Ford design experience and $millions development. That beats armchair engineering every time!

[Hammink Performance]

Good wright up on the brakes, that was helpful!

[Jacob McCrea]

I really appreciate the overview of the brakes, Tom. After reading various threads and comments I believed that the Mustang rear brakes were misplaced on these cars, but that doesn't seem to be accurate. I haven't posted photos due to time constraints, but after reading a lot of comments I am (at least as I type) planning to use the same Wilwood 13" brakes front and back, with custom brackets to make the front calipers work on the back. The parking brake setup I fabbed up to get more flexibility in rear brake choice uses a pinion rotor from Superformance, a Wilwood hydraulic spot caliper mounted to the driveshaft loop and a hydraulic "drifting" brake handle from eBay. It was a lot of fabrication and rigamarole, and I'll be shocked if it works well, but the plan was to allow a ton of flexibility with rear brake choices. Hopefully the work wasn't wasted. Anyway, thanks for the great information.

By the way, it must be the coolest thing for Peter Brock to see folks still building, racing and developing these cars nearly fifty years later.

[tcoon]

Thanks for your input Jacob. The best indication for me that the rear brakes are adequate is that I have no difficulty locking the rear wheels with a small tweak of the balance bar. If they weren't strong enough that would not be the case. Remember racing is ALL about managing weight transfer, and with threshold braking 90% of the weight goes to the front brakes. Ever go over the handlebars on your bike from braKing too much on the front? Same principle. Even with 315 rear tires I can lock the rears first with those tiny Cobra brakes! Seems crazy but it's true. The real challenge is trying to achieve balance and ideal adjustment so the fronts lock just prior to the rears. if I begin to have excessive heat fade or wear on the rears, I would consider going to a larger caliper, but so far that has not been the case.

[tcoon]

And yes, Peter Brock has been very engaged!

[tcoon]

BTW...the car made it to Kit Car Builders Magazine! Woohoo!

https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...-hb-cruise-in/



[CHOTIS BILL]

That is cool.

Bill Lomenick

[Daytona Dan]

Hey Tom, the recent mods you have been making are inspiring and I am even more impressed at your rapid rate of development!

Aero is high on my list for this coming off season and I like your subtle approach.

On the data, I second John George (and Karen I believe) with the RacePak G2X system. While monitoring your personal performance over time is probably most important, by using same the system we are able to exchange data files and overlay laps to see what's possible and try to identify unlock the secrets of speed. JG sent me his killer laps from Watkins Glen last year and my high level analysis was that I needed some aero and bigger balls! Seriously though, Craig and I overlay our laps and closely analyze what sectors we perform better on, can run a few mph faster in particular turns etc.

On the rear brake lock up I am curious how much nose dive you have when the rears are locking? We went with a Tilton setup very similar to the Wilwood with dual masters for brakes and the proper balance bar for bias adjustment and have found it to be invaluable. When I experience too much nosedive and start locking the rears due to lack of friction I am now able to dial in more bias to the rear until the car squats down flat under full braking. Can't believe we lived without it for so long!

[Slider]

I have a question about the Hydraulic Clutch from Forte. I have the same setup from him, with the Coyote, TKO600 and the Quicktime Bellhousing... however, the way the hydraulic mounts, I'm having issues with the hydraulic line actually sitting lower than the transmission, which is making me nervous that I'm going to tear it off on a bump someday. My setup looks identical to yours (please confirm), but yours appears to have all cables above bottom of the transmission... Can you confirm? I'm not sure how to fix, as Forte's mount only works in one spot, and that lines up with where the fork is, so that has to be correct... Any thoughts?

...

Enter a hydraulic clutch kit from Mike Forte. The install was straightforward, a simple bolt on, but since the car is done and body installed, a little more complicated to get inside the footbox. I decided to cut an access panel in the side of the footbox, and combined with the hinged door already installed at the inside top of the box, there was plenty of room to make the switch. I am pleased to say the new clutch feel is a dream, and I cant believe I didn't make this switch years ago!...

[xlr8or]

Slider,
Notice the 90 on the line. This keeps it higher. If you don't have one in the line you can put one on the cylinder.
I've used two of those setups and they work great.

[tcoon]

Dan thanks for the kudos! I think this aero package is very functional, wish I had a day in a wind tunnel to actually get some real data...I second the wish for larger cahones! Once I dialed out the rear lockup the stopping has been flat and consistent, just searching now for that sweet spot...

Slider I agree the low hydraulic line is a potential issue, and I did switch ends on the line so the 90 is at the bottom, rotating the upper hose end at the MC so it points sideways and the line runs through the top of the footbox, that keeps it away from engine heat, which has been my biggest issue so far.

Looking at various data system options now.

[tcoon]

Slider also note that with my setup the slave cylinder was very close to the tranny and aligned with the fork at a very acute angle. To fix this and line things up better I fashioned some 1/2" spacers and used longer bolts to move the slave cylinder further away from the tranny, now making a straight shot to the clutch fork. I did have to shorten the pushrod quite a lot.

[Slider]

Thanks. I have the 90 on as well, but the line does loop below the transmission and frame. My set up looks quite similar to yours. We ended up making a skid plate to cover this area as added protection for the hydraulic line.

Slider also note that with my setup the slave cylinder was very close to the tranny and aligned with the fork at a very acute angle. To fix this and line things up better I fashioned some 1/2" spacers and used longer bolts to move the slave cylinder further away from the tranny, now making a straight shot to the clutch fork. I did have to shorten the pushrod quite a lot.

[loeffler1]

How about wrapping some heat resistant tape or heat sleeve on the hydraulic line. I did that with mine.

[jkrueger]

Tom

Good progress with your car! Do you have a part number for the Moser 11" rear kit? I'm not very happy with my Wilwood set up and am thinking of going to the floating caliper stock set up. I assume you used calipers from the SN95 car?

JC

[tcoon]

Not sure of the part no. I ordered the moser rearend and it came with 11" brakes, sn 95 rear calipers. So far braking has been good, currently at Laguna SECA which is a big braking track and am experiencing some brake fade...may need to switch to a different brake pad...balance good but brakes get spongy after a few laps. Stay tuned...

[johngeorge]

Tom, I switched to Hawk DTC-60's all around, really like the feel/balance and there is no brake fade (I dont run brake duct cooling). Maybe give those a try..

[tcoon]

Hmmm..that sounds like a great idea. Had a lot of fade this weekend; after 5 laps or so the pedal got really soft and nearly went to the floor, came back after cooling off so I don't think the fluid was boiling. How are the Hawks on rotor wear? I also had carbotech xp20 suggested. Anyone have any experience with these?

[tcoon]

July 4th weekend brought the first NASA event at Laguna Seca in at least 5 years, and Competition Coupe drivers Tom Coon and Karen Salvaggio were not about to pass that one up! We brought both cars and had a blast, over the course of the weekend getting both cars sorted and well on the way to competition readiness.

Saturday morning brought the usual coastal mist and a damp track. I had never been there before, so tackling the legendary corkscrew for the first time was a bit un-nerving, but I must say it is a kick in the pants! I was thrilled to find my new hydraulic clutch setup a dream to operate, and had no problems with it or the corrected power steering issues all weekend! Hurray!

Karen struggled early with suspension setup issues, but over the course of a few sessions got the ride height and toe settings dialed, and began posting some very fast times. She was co-driving with beau Rupert Bragg-Smith, professional racer and driving instructor, and he had great tips and insight into this challenging course for all of us. We are excited and proud to welcome him to the FFR family.

I am likewise thrilled with the aero mods I have been developing. I was particularly interested in the polycarbonate side skirts, figuring they would probably disintegrate after a few laps. But no! they held up beautifully, lasting the entire weekend, even enduring an off road excursion and a constant pounding from rubbing on the pavement. As hoped, they simply ground off slowly at the bottom, seeking a height of ideal clearance. And the aero seemed to be great! The car is very stable at high speed, and sticks like glue.

For the last session Sat, I recruited Rupert to take her for a spin, and the result was magic! He started at the back and passed everything in sight, including Karen when she faded due to a dislodged spark plug wire. Video to follow, the yellow/red BMW is piloted by Donny Edwards...he was quite surprised to see the Daytona coming up fast in the rearview! Rupert retired a lap later due to brake fade.

http://youtu.be/Lb1YkGy8FDU


Sunday brought another great day, unfortunately marred by me being rear-ended by an overly aggressive TTU driver who forgot what the middle pedal is for. The first test for the new safety cage was however a great success, with only cosmetic rear fascia damage and a broken taillight on my coupe. I was able to drive the rest of the day. The mustang driver had significant damage to the hood and front fascia. These FFR cars are tough as nails!

I finished the weekend a happy camper, with a personal best lap of 1:54.4, first time I've been under 2:00 on any track, anywhere; i took home podium finishes of 3rd in TT1 both days. Rupert posted 1:44.4 in the car after only a few laps of familiarity. He is an amazing driver. He then turned the same time in Karen's car, proving that even though there are differences in engine, brakes, and tires, its really more than anything the driver that sets the pace. I think a new series with some diversity and imagination would be an incredible good time!

http://youtu.be/bswlwRTiX78

[CHOTIS BILL]

Thanks for the update and congratulation on the success of your new aero bits. I stopped going to Laguna many years ago because of the way SCCA ran their show but it sounds like NASA does a much better job. I ran brake hoses to the front brakes for many years but then discovered that adding a small deflector on the upright to divert the air to the center of the disk work just as well but I still needed the openings in the front body work to let the air in. If you have enough air flow in that area that might help your brake fade. You might try temperature indicating paint to see how much cooling is needed. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr....asp?RecID=862. They also make labels to do the same thing. If you are not already using it they make a very high temp brake fluid which is quite expensive but may fix you problem. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/gr...pID=BRAKEFLUID

Keep us updated,

Bill Lomenick