W i d e Body

[Vman7]

Thought I would just throw this out there. Has anybody thought about a wide body version based on the current 818 design?

David

[Rasmus]

Do it.

Only way to fit 335/35R17 Kumho Ecsta XS tires under there.

[RM1SepEx]

that's a big beastly tire!

[D2W]

Thought I would just throw this out there. Has anybody thought about a wide body version based on the current 818 design?

David

^I know a guy who has the talent to photoshop it^

[Vman7]

^I know a guy who has the talent to photoshop it^

lol........

[bbjones121]

Vman7 you back in action?

[Vman7]

Vman7 you back in action?

Not yet, at least on the 818. Still waiting to get some things confirmed and get some more detailed pictures to work with. Mostly working on GTM stuff right now. I might play around with a front/side shot of the 818 for a wide body. I am debating about posting some mock-up front view ideas I did sometime back.

David

[jimgood]

There's a threshold in tire width at which point you will not be able to get enough heat into the tires to make them stick. I have no idea what is that threshold, but I wouldn't jones for wider tires until FFR has a chance to find the optimal width. And they will.

[bromikl]

There's a threshold in tire width at which point you will not be able to get enough heat into the tires to make them stick.

Right on. Wide tires may look cool, but sometimes narrow tires perform better - especially in rain or snow.

[metalmaker12]

To run more than a 255-275 at most you will have to change the lower rear control arm set up drastically, which I already knew but I asked this question to Jim anyway. He confirmed. Plus the 818 is already rather wide, the way its designed. You want the car to grip, but you also want it to slide when you want.

[Vman7]

Yeah that is the big ?, is just how wide can we go before it gets to the point where there is no benefit.

I was thinking no more then 1"-1.5" per/side up front, and no more then 1.5"-2" per/side in the rear. The more I look at the 818 there are a few ways to give it a wider look without really going to wide, mostly by getting rid the the fender lips and bringing the rest of the fender out to where the lip used to be.

Tire sizes I had in mind are the same ones I based my Vantage on.

These are the tires on the Vantage that I ended up with:
Track: Front- 58.5" / Rear- 58.3"

Tires: Front 225/40-18 / Rear 255/35-18

Tires Opt. Front 235/40-18 / Rear 265/35-18, 275/35-18

Here are the tires sizes I used when deciding on which ones to go with:

------------Tire Size / SW/ DIA
Front/Rear 225/45-17 / 8.9" / 25"
opt. Rear 255/40-17 / 10" / 25"

opt. Front 225/40-18 / 8.9"/ 25.1"
opt. Rear 255/35-18 / 10" /25"

opt. Front 235/40-18 / 9.3" /25.4"
opt. Rear 265/35-18 / 10.4" / 25.3"
opt. Rear 275/35-18 / 10.8" / 25.6"

[Vman7]

Vman7 you back in action?

I put up some front mock-ups. They are ok, but not what I really have in mind. Just a few ideas I sometime back.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...8-Design-Mod-s

I started working on some others the last day or so, just need a better picture. The one I used is ok, view is right on, just not a real good picture.

[metalmaker12]

I like this front design, it is cool and makes it look meaner, I need to get a design program, I got some good ideas to put down.

[Vman7]

I like this front design, it is cool and makes it look meaner, I need to get a design program, I got some good ideas to put down.

Which front design are you talking about?
I just use photoshop for right now. If you can somewhat layout your idea, so I (someone) can get an idea of your ideas, I or someone can draw them up.

[FFR-ADV]

I need to get a design program, I got some good ideas to put down.

Hi metalmaker12,

No question Photoshop is top of the line. If you want to try something low cost (FREE) you might want to try GIMP. There are many Youtube videos of how to use the program to edit cars, just search for: Gimp cars. I look forward to seeing you get your ideas onto the screen.

Vman7,

I really like what you are doing with the 818. The front almost has fangs and the back end mod screams "Super Car"

Cheers!

[bnr32jason]

I think the widebody issue could easily be solved with simple fender flares or perhaps some riveted on blister fenders. If they are designed correctly they shouldn't look tacky at all. We can very likely squeeze a 235 in the front without much issue with stock width, not sure if there is need for more front tire on such a light car. But it seems from the look of the photos we've seen from the track testing day, 255's in the rear are already pushing it. So put on some widen it by about 30-40 mm's on each side and we should be able to throw 285's or maybe even some 305 R-compounds on it.

[0100]

235/40-18 and 265/35-18 street tires should fit no problem on the stock 818 body with the proper wheel width and offset.

[Red Tag]

I was already planning on a wide body, or more likely fender flares (I like fender flares). The main issue is tire selections. As Jimgood pointed out, one of the keys is to get heat into the tires, especially for track use. This is more of a tire compound issue than size. From my point of view the best tire size / selection out there are the Hoosier A6/R6 range. They heat up quickly and provide tremendous grip. The BFG R1 are very good and wear like iron, but may have an issue getting heat into them.

I am planning on using 265/35R18 fronts and 285/30R18 Michelin Pilot Sport Cups (already have a set) for the street and A6/R6 for the track.

VMAN, are you using ALIAS for your surfacing? I plan to and use the wireframes to create the molds. I need to recreate the front suspension on Inventor and finalize the wheel offsets, make adapters, and order wheels/tires. I really wish we had data from the actual cars so I can start cutting steel and get out of this planning mode.

[Vman7]

VMAN, are you using ALIAS for your surfacing? I plan to and use the wireframes to create the molds. I need to recreate the front suspension on Inventor and finalize the wheel offsets, make adapters, and order wheels/tires. I really wish we had data from the actual cars so I can start cutting steel and get out of this planning mode.

No, right now I do everything in Photoshop.

[Samiam1017]

I've seen tire sizes for the two cars listed but what are the wheels sizes and offsets? Are they out there somewere?

[Red Tag]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the tires/wheels on the SEMA 818S were:
Front: 225/40R17, 17"X8", offset = 35mm
Rear: 255/35R18, 18"X9", offset = 35mm

(Stock WRX wheels/tires are P205/55R16 on 16"X6.5", offset = 53mm)

[Red Tag]

DSC_1351.JPGDSC_1362.JPG

I took pictures of the front and rear suspension, and I do not know if you can tell from the pictures, but both the front and rear are constrained inward by the suspension links. The only way bigger than the wheels and tires shown at SEMA / Moochfest is to go outward, resulting in fender flairs or a widebody.

[Mechie3]

I(Stock WRX wheels/tires are P205/55R16 on 16"X6.5", offset = 53mm)

06 WRX has stock wheels with these parameters:
Stock wheel dimensions: 17 x 7.0"
Stock wheel offset: 53mm
Stock tire: 205/50R17

[0100]

The front has like 3 inches of space before you even have to think about fender flairs.

DSC_0924-950x800.jpg

[Matty_STi]

265 fronts 285 rears would be perfect. beyond that you will have to rely on down force, HP and heavy braking to build enough heat.. Tire width thresholds only come into play when you can't build enough heat in the tread to make them sticky bigger issue on R-compound and slicks than with smaller tread block high performance tires. Course you can go so wide and heavy that the engine just bogs down but i would think if you need to run 275+tread you've the power already to use that grip.

275 also would be a good.

I wouldn't run any less than 255's on my build, but then again I am going to be putting upwards of 700whp to the pavement and making sure to eek out all the downforce and aero goodness that I can. maaayyybe 295 read and 275 fronts if they fit thought goofing the suspension all up. Though that can always be fixed with some re-engineering.

Also subscribed to thread.

-Matt

[bnr32jason]

700whp?! May I ask why so much power? That is approaching F1 levels of power to weight ratio.

[longislandwrx]

I wouldn't run any less than 255's on my build, but then again I am going to be putting upwards of 700whp

-Matt

WOAH.

I don't think you could pull this off reliably for under $50k and probably alot more... but I would love to read a new thread about your build.
There also the question of whether the chassis is designed to withstand anywhere near that much power without overstressing it.

[Martin]

I don't think anyone has ever managed to break an FFR chassis because of too much power.

The chassis is one of the main reasons a lot of people go for an FFR. Apart from being a piece of art work to look at, they are designed for racing and extreme use.

I'm not saying you couldn't break it, but there is an FFR GTM with 1200hp in it, they were breaking the wheels loose before the chassis had any problems. With the roadster, there are cars out there with upwards of 800hp, and they are struggling with traction and gear boxes *LONG* before the chassis gives up any surprises.

Martin

WOAH.

I don't think you could pull this off reliably for under $50k and probably alot more... but I would love to read a new thread about your build.
There also the question of whether the chassis is designed to withstand anywhere near that much power without overstressing it.

[carbon fiber]

700 hp!? good luck keeping it on the road. this car is rwd only and LIGHT. at that level, traction control would be an absolute must. i'm putting around 500-550 in my gtm and that's pushing traction. once you go so high with hp, it's only good in a straight line. attempting to put power down coming out of a turn would be hairy at best.

[Erik W. Treves]

Yeah.. 700 RWHP... really?? I think you reach the point/risk of just throwing money at something just to say you have a number. My Roadster at 2550 lbs has more HP and TQ than most and after actually driving it around for 3+ years....I can tell you that I would probably never build one like that again...probably....It's neat to roast the tires at 100...but you have to be ON all the time in a car like that and it is metally exhausting...if I am at all tired or not feeling 100% I don't even attempt to get behind the wheel of that car...Not to get this off topic..though.. so I will stop right there.

[Nuul]

Yeah.. 700 RWHP... really?? I think you reach the point/risk of just throwing money at something just to say you have a number. My Roadster at 2550 lbs has more HP and TQ than most and after actually driving it around for 3+ years....I can tell you that I would probably never build one like that again...probably....It's neat to roast the tires at 100...but you have to be ON all the time in a car like that and it is metally exhausting...if I am at all tired or not feeling 100% I don't even attempt to get behind the wheel of that car...Not to get this off topic..though.. so I will stop right there.

I know what you mean. I decided I wanted "only" 300HP for the reasons you listed. Especially since we're not going to have traction control or any of the modern go fast helpers that you'd get with a BMW/Porsche/etc. 700HP is just asking to end up on the news. I see we're getting very derailed so I'll shut up now.

[carbon fiber]

that mentally exhausting part is spot on, you're NEVER relaxed while driving it. i've got a '91 mustang notch with 600hp @ 2900 lbs. and it's a handful. forget driving it in the rain, ever. fun to roast 'em at 100mph plus with a roll on, but not fun trying to turn and accelerate. aftermarket traction control is available and would help, but it's still going to be a handful.

[Xusia]

Yeah.. 700 RWHP... really?? I think you reach the point/risk of just throwing money at something just to say you have a number. My Roadster at 2550 lbs has more HP and TQ than most and after actually driving it around for 3+ years....I can tell you that I would probably never build one like that again...probably....It's neat to roast the tires at 100...but you have to be ON all the time in a car like that and it is metally exhausting...if I am at all tired or not feeling 100% I don't even attempt to get behind the wheel of that car...Not to get this off topic..though.. so I will stop right there.

Eric is spot on. My sportbike has a power-to-weight ratio of 3.65 pounds (my weight included) per HP, and it's a handful to ride. I honestly have more fun riding my buddy's 600 with only 5.6 pounds per HP - and it's because I don't have to spend the mental energy to be the traction control. I can give it a handful of throttle coming off a corner and not worry near as much because I don't have to be as precise. Sure, I'd get more acceleration on my bike, but for me it's about fun, not lap times or other numbers. Because of this, I'm planning on ~250 RWHP for my 818. It will still faster than most cars, but a lot easier to drive.

[carbon fiber]

i know what you mean. i've got a 2007 cbr1000rr with some mods and it's addictive as far as the speed in a straight line. but on twisty roads i still miss my 600. lots more corner speed. i used to wear out the tires from corner speed, now they wear out from the extra weight. i can't win!

[Mechie3]

He won't have problems driving a 700whp car for a few reasons.

1: 700whp is 823 bhp. I remember back in 2007 (?) the first privatetly owned STI broke 800hp. All the other (by all, I mean the very few) that also did that were all shop owned cars who spent way too much money and time doing this.

2: 700whp will break the 5 speed. It will break all 5 speed gears available. It will even break the stock 6 speed. He won't go very far.

3: If he's sticking with a 2.5motor, his turbo won't spool until really late. This guy only makes 400hp peak, but at 4500rpms he's still only making 200hp. There's a local guy with an STI that makes up to 500 some hp (he has different maps). He puts it on the low map because it's undriveable with AWD at anything higher that his low hp map.

http://www.ionperformance.com/dyno/050403dyno2.jpg

I find it hard to take him seriously, at all.

[longislandwrx]

He has a pretty serious build planned.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2442916

talking about a $5000 ECU here so who knows, maybe his pockets are a big as his goals. Calling him on it now seems premature.

[carbon fiber]

auto x with 650-700hp? more like doughnut competitions.

[Mechie3]

I'm not saying he couldnt' do it with enough money, just that I find it hard to take someone who thinks an 818 needs or will do well with 700whp seriously. His thread does say 600whp too, which is more easily obtained than 700whp. That old 80/20 rule.

Also, I've seen too many people come and go with the "I'm going to build X00 hp" and nothing happens. I didn't know he had that other thread, so I'll at least take his build seriously, but not that in an 818.

It'd sure be interesting to see, but in the end, it's like the old Supra joke. What's the difference between a 1000hp and a 500hp supra? They both run 11's. In an AWD Subaru, sure, in an 818? Don't think it'll be worth it.

[Erik W. Treves]

He has a pretty serious build planned.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2442916

talking about a $5000 ECU here so who knows, maybe his pockets are a big as his goals. Calling him on it now seems premature.

nobody was saying you couldn't do it...but from the perspective and experience of off the chart HP to Weight building, the point being, that for real life enjoyment of actually being able to drive the car every day..not really reasonable...doing 700HP in a WRX is nothing and really do mean NOTHING...did I say that strongly enough...NOTHING like doing it in a 2500# Cobra let alone 1800# 818...but to each his own...game , set, match.....how about that wide body thread....

[timmy318]

Dang...... 700 HP??????