doing 700HP in a WRX is nothing and really do mean NOTHING...did I say that strongly enough...NOTHING like doing it in a 2500# Cobra let alone 1800# 818...but to each his own.
I'm right there with you. preaching to the choir...
I was referring to Mechie saying hard to take him seriously... even though I have to agree somewhat, just giving him the chance.
I remember reading along time ago, back when Steve Millen was at the top of the Nissan game. His team at Stillen had built an insane 300zx with the biggest turbos available at the time and every other mod under the sun. It made a ridiculous amount of power. They gave the car to Steve who took it out for a spin. He returned a while later, handed back the keys and uttered one word. "Undrivable" End of project.
Insane projects do do one thing, they set the bar.
Last edited by longislandwrx; 02-26-2013 at 04:10 PM.
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
Silly if you ask me, 700whp in an sti is crazy enough. You might get power to weight kinda close to an f1, but you will never get close to that overall performance in any 818, never going to happen. Even if I was loaded and could do it, I wouldn't. I think 400-500 whp is asking for it, but hell to each there own build
I'd rather see him build a 400hp motor and spend the rest of his money doing more development on the 818 (suspension, body work, aero, etc). That would be more fun to see.
I will gladly eat my words humbly if he actually does build a 700hp 818.
I'm not saying he couldnt' do it with enough money, just that I find it hard to take someone who thinks an 818 needs or will do well with 700whp seriously. His thread does say 600whp too, which is more easily obtained than 700whp. That old 80/20 rule.
Also, I've seen too many people come and go with the "I'm going to build X00 hp" and nothing happens. I didn't know he had that other thread, so I'll at least take his build seriously, but not that in an 818.
It'd sure be interesting to see, but in the end, it's like the old Supra joke. What's the difference between a 1000hp and a 500hp supra? They both run 11's. In an AWD Subaru, sure, in an 818? Don't think it'll be worth it.
okay everybody sloooooooooow doooooown
My motor build for my STi is in capable hands but until that finishes my STi build is at a stand still. 818 will be somewhat similar
I changed my goals for my 818 and haven't updated to reflect that. My 818 won't be used for anything other than track days and as a way to play around with some crazy ideas I have. 700whp is absolute max. And also i'll be using a syvecs as well. The nice thing about the syvecs is I can dial in a tonne of different maps and flip them on the fly, also per gear boost settings, built in TCS and lots of other goodies. 700whp will be for mile events and straight line stuff. More likely to be around 500-550 for track days.
If anyone thinks that I would try to get 700whp to hook up in 1st or 2nd or even 3rd gear is out of their minds. I will be running nice sticky r-comp rubber but that can only do so much. Aero and ECU control be my aces for this.
Aero is a big focus on this build and I have lots of cool tricks up my sleeve for that. As for lag, well I am going to try my hand at getting a holset variable turbo to play around with, there are other options available too. The weakness of the 5 speed isn't a big deal for me, there are lots of options out there that are superior i've got a few discussions going on with a couple different vendors.
This isn't a quest for mine bigger than yours or to impress anyone if I wanted to do that I sure as hell wouldn't be using an EJ series as the base and i wouldn't stop at 700.. The 818 is a great platform for me to play around with, that's it. I would use an elise or an exige but I wouldn't want to butcher either as I love lotus's.
There is more thought going into this build than most and over engineering is the name of the game. This also isn't my first high hp crazy build, but I don't want this to be like other stupid high hp builds so I am going to be doing things differently..
Also I am a young un-married (though not single) fairly well off guy. I don't plan on having kids nor does my gf for quite a long time.
Either way, I expect there to be lots of flack for a build like this. I also know it will be very expensive, and I also know it will take a lot of time and be a giant headache.. I'll live with it.. Oh and if I can't get things to work properly don't think I won't be the first to admit I f'd up.
Anyways my goal wasn't to hijack this thread... so If people want to discuss the merits of my build PM (good/bad/whatever). I haven't started the build yet so no point in a build thread it will just turn into a pile of crap before things actually get done. No need to get your feathers ruffled yet, too soon for that.
okay, back to the thread. (seriously guys don't clutter this thread, PM me or start a different thread, I will start a build thread when I am ready to start building).
Matt
**EDIT**
I should add I like doing off the wall projects, big ideas change things. That's why I have the money to do crazy projects because in my line of work big ideas go places - it's why my friends/peers, all of whom are well educated and in great jobs, make a fraction of what I do.
I could build a 400hp 818, but there will be lots of those.. I don't want to build just a 700whp freak machine that tries to kill me (aka frank profera's insane lotus), I want to build one that can be driven, and driven fast. Sure I want to scare my pants off sometimes but I still want something drivable. I think that can be done. The goal is 700whp, that goal could change depending on testing. And sure there are the insane GTM builds, I don't want to build a GTM, at least not yet. I believe I could do something crazy with this project that won't be replicatible. Why do what everyone else has done? That's formulaic and boring. If it was easy I wouldn't want to do it. These are kit cars for projects - this is my project - the 818 has no set goal other than a small lightweight kit based on wrx running gear. You all may not want to build a 700whp car or think it can't be done or think it will be a disaster piece, doesn't mean I don't think it can be done. Just because you wouldn't or couldn't doesn't mean others can't and won't - and do a kick *** job of it.. The spirit of my build is to try stuff, see what happens and push the limits, it can be done and done in a smart way.
*EDIT 2*
It's really weird and kinda freaky when people talk about you/refer to you in the third person... lol
Just a thought: I never rain on anyones parade..700HP,7000HP, I just wish them luck.
Like an old story I heard years ago about this guy who was going to put a Alison P51 engine in a 64 Chev malibu..I chuckled and said Yea, sure and then he did it..
You build your dream Sir and the best of luck to you!
Well, 700whp and widebody are things that actually should be discussed together. Because I'm pretty sure even R-compounds aren't going to stick unless you've got 300mm+ tire on the back.
I'll admit an apology is due on my part. I jumped the gun a little. I'm a moderator on 2 Subaru forums and the number of people that come in and talk big and gather a huge fan club that says "OMG you're so awesome!" and then disappear without ever accomplishing anything is astounding. You had all the marks of one of those people: big goals (bigger than anything else), and a low post count.
I would like to see you start a build thread. Whether it works or not, it'll be fun to see it come together and perhaps spread ideas around as well.
Back to the thread.. just looking at all the pictures posted it seems like 255's in the front would not be an issue, seems like plenty of room to the knuckles and to the fenders to get another 30mm.
hey if I can run a 255/35R18 all around that just means I can rotate my tires. 295 Hoosiers all around with some flairs would be crazy for track days. I don't know if my kidneys are up for the challenge though.
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
I'm with Eric on the HP issue. My Roadster is mild compared to most although when I bring up this subject on the old forum, I get blasted.
I like to run straight when I take off without very much spin & when I shift the car goes forward, not sideways.
I've even been accused of not being able to spend the dollars on an insane motor.
Horse power is nothing if you can't turn a corner without having fun. I would rather babysit my skill, rather than babysit control.
As far as a wide body, Jeniffer Lopez's butt is too big for me, not for some.(dam that thing is big) A good flare in the back of the 818 would be nice IF it could actually work toward an advantage, and not something that breaks - that Turbo Porsche look has always been my fav- I would leave the front alone and maybe drop it to push weight toward the front more
By the way; they don't often show J lows butt on those magazine covers now do they? the page is only 8.5 inches wide
Last edited by THE ITALIAN; 09-07-2013 at 04:58 PM.
I thought I would bring this subject up again, since right now I am somewhat working on the 818 2.0 and 818 GT versions.
The 818 GT version would be the one either with/without a wider body. If not wider, it would have the look of being wider, mostly in the rear.
My question is what wider tires for best performance would be within reason without going crazy, so I determine how much wider to go on the body design.
Yeah.. 700 RWHP... really?? I think you reach the point/risk of just throwing money at something just to say you have a number. My Roadster at 2550 lbs has more HP and TQ than most and after actually driving it around for 3+ years....I can tell you that I would probably never build one like that again...probably....It's neat to roast the tires at 100...but you have to be ON all the time in a car like that and it is metally exhausting...if I am at all tired or not feeling 100% I don't even attempt to get behind the wheel of that car...Not to get this off topic..though.. so I will stop right there.
Hey! What do you know about pal?????!!!!! Oh wait.....sorry...
Maybe we can ask Matty_STi... oh, nevermind. Seriously, 275 rear, 245 front? That's seems pretty reasonable. Anything past that and you'd probably come up against the geometry/getting heat in the tires issues. Also, just more rotating mass. David, what about the idea of the widebody being part of the 4.0 vantage design? I like what Hennessy did with the Lotus Elise:Attachment 37765Attachment 37764
Last edited by carbon fiber; 01-18-2015 at 10:52 AM.
Maybe we can ask Matty_STi... oh, nevermind. Seriously, 275 rear, 245 front? That's seems pretty reasonable. Anything past that and you'd probably come up against the geometry/getting heat in the tires issues. Also, just more rotating mass. David, what about the idea of the widebody being part of the 4.0 vantage design? I like what Hennessy did with the Lotus Elise:Attachment 37765Attachment 37764
That's what I was thinking when I designed the Vantage. Tires I posted in Post #1, max being 235 front/275 rear.
The Vantage 4.0 was going to be a combo of the current 818 body/vantage 3.0, but when I tired doing some of work, it doesn't look possible with doing real major body changes. So I figured the Vantage 4.0 should just be an alt body on it's own.
Lotus Elise/Exige is I like a lot. The Hennessy Venom, from my understanding was based on the Exige. The Elise and Exige are pretty close, unless you know what to look for, most ppl would know the difference.
Anyhoot, back to the widebody. I started working on the 818 2.0, then once that is done, I'll start working on the 818 GT, which will either have the look of a widebody or will be wider. I just have to find out what is the max tire width for the 818 right now to determine how much wider to go with the widebody and just how wide of tires.
Yeah that is the big ?, is just how wide can we go before it gets to the point where there is no benefit.
I was thinking no more then 1"-1.5" per/side up front, and no more then 1.5"-2" per/side in the rear. The more I look at the 818 there are a few ways to give it a wider look without really going to wide, mostly by getting rid the the fender lips and bringing the rest of the fender out to where the lip used to be.
Tire sizes I had in mind are the same ones I based my Vantage on.
These are the tires on the Vantage that I ended up with:
Track: Front- 58.5" / Rear- 58.3"
Tires: Front 225/40-18 / Rear 255/35-18
Tires Opt. Front 235/40-18 / Rear 265/35-18, 275/35-18
Here are the tires sizes I used when deciding on which ones to go with:
To run more than a 255-275 at most you will have to change the lower rear control arm set up drastically, which I already knew but I asked this question to Jim anyway. He confirmed. Plus the 818 is already rather wide, the way its designed. You want the car to grip, but you also want it to slide when you want.
Couldn't you buy wheels with negative offset to keep from making major control arm changes?
Originally Posted by Vman7
Here is what I need answers to:
1. What is the max tire width & height the 818 can handle right now?
2. What is the max tire width & height without compormising performance?
By knowing the answer to the above two questions, I can determine how much wider to design the widebody.
thanks
David
How do you go about determining the answers to the above questions?
You have forgotten the power factor for the "not compromising performance" question #2. Unless that's known then it can't be seriously answered.
To #1, I only know that you can get a 275x40x18 under the rear on a 32ET rim. I have 9.5" wide 17's with 32 ET on the rear and they work fine on my STi upright. I'm putting 245X40 Conti's on them today and I foresee no issues at all. The front on mine is not Subaru so I don't know if anything I do there will be valid for your research.
I don't see why you can't start with a known entity, like what some here have done successfully and work from there. Using a rim with relatively high ET, you can use washers or big nuts behind the wheel to vary and reduce the offset. Make tire profile silhouettes and tack the profile in with hot-melt, tape, etc. Rotate them around while in bump and full lock. Once you have removed the shock it should be a simple matter to move it around and evaluate the fit of the combo.
Couldn't you buy wheels with negative offset to keep from making major control arm changes?
How do you go about determining the answers to the above questions?
Originally Posted by Scargo
You have forgotten the power factor for the "not compromising performance" question #2. Unless that's known then it can't be seriously answered.
To #1, I only know that you can get a 275x40x18 under the rear on a 32ET rim. I have 9.5" wide 17's with 32 ET on the rear and they work fine on my STi upright. I'm putting 245X40 Conti's on them today and I foresee no issues at all. The front on mine is not Subaru so I don't know if anything I do there will be valid for your research.
I don't see why you can't start with a known entity, like what some here have done successfully and work from there. Using a rim with relatively high ET, you can use washers or big nuts behind the wheel to vary and reduce the offset. Make tire profile silhouettes and tack the profile in with hot-melt, tape, etc. Rotate them around while in bump and full lock. Once you have removed the shock it should be a simple matter to move it around and evaluate the fit of the combo.
Basicly I would need the answers in post #62, which would come mostly from ppl who have worked on the 818 and have pretty much for the most part have figured out the max tire sizes etc.
Unfortunately at this point it really doesn't matter, since I am not working on 818 stuff anymore, as I posted in my Vman's 818 Design Ideas thread post #95
Thanks: 
Likes: 
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
Reply With Quote
His thread does say 600whp too, which is more easily obtained than 700whp. That old 80/20 rule.
Seriously, 275 rear, 245 front? That's seems pretty reasonable. Anything past that and you'd probably come up against the geometry/getting heat in the tires issues. Also, just more rotating mass. David, what about the idea of the widebody being part of the 4.0 vantage design? I like what Hennessy did with the Lotus Elise: