818SR Tire Options to maximize handling when off of the track

[FFR-ADV]

The 1.5Gs continuous cornering on the track sure is impressive (makes me smile every time)!!! Also, the race tuning is not complete as a bigger CF Splitter and full 11 degree CF Diffuser is in the works.

The Hoosiers used in the track testing are great "DOT" track tires, but probably not suited for real street use. So what street tire options would maximize the performance for a 818SR (all of the 818R aero and suspension upgrades but suspension ride height set 1 inch higher for street clearance, therefore roughly 1 inch greater roll moment, but what is the baseline 818R roll moment arm)?

Is there tire coefficient of friction vs slip angle data for the Hoosiers and/or some candidate street tires which could help us to predict potential cornering performance with street tires? Was there any cornering info from the 818S on the track test?

So what continuous cornering G's might we pull from a 818SR when it isn't wearing track tires based on what we currently know?

Cheers!

[Rasmus]

In alphabetical order:

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Kumho Ecsta XS
Toyo Proxes R1R

[bnr32jason]

I have always run aggressive tires on the street and my order would be:

1) Yokohama Advan Neova AD08
2) Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
3) Dunlop Direzza Star Spec

I didn't include tires like the R888 or A050 because those are pretty much street legal track tires.

The reason I choose the AD08 as my number one is because of their ability to handle wet weather as well as dry. Also the turn-in was much better on the AD08's in the same size vs the RE-11's.

[wleehendrick]

In addition to those mentioned, the new BFG g-Force Rival looks to be a strong contender in this category (Extreme Performance Summer Tire); TireRack should be getting them shortly. My current DD has Conti Extreme DW's, which were great for the first 5-10k miles, but don't grip like they used to. I'm not sure yet if I'll go with summer tires, or try a 'streetable track' tire like the Toyo R888. Being in SoCal I don't have much rain or cold temps to worry about.

[Silvertop]

I'm considering the Bridgestone RE-760S, from the Ultra-Performance Summer Tire category. It's supposed to perform nearly as well as the RE-11, but is quieter with a more comfortable ride. Reportedly provides reasonable longevity as well. At an MSRP of $129, it is also affordable. Nice looking asymmetrical tread pattern.

[boostinsidewayz]

R888 is my favorite tire. Grip is almost as good as my Hoosier a6s. And I think realistically they will last 2-3 years. I bought a used set for my z06 and put about 5k on them. And probably 7 autox events. Tires were less then 50% when I got them. With as light as the 818 is, I see them lasting a long time. And I doubt most people will drive a whole lot of miles with the car. For me it will be an everyday car and I doubt I'll see more then 7500 a year.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Without researching I don't recall offhand what sizes we'll need but if the proper ones are available this economical and agressive street tire is a well kept secret (well kept because they are NOT sold by the giants; i.e. Tire Rack and Discount Tire) that deserves consideration:

http://www.onlinetires.com/search/ve...ds/page_1.html

Jeff

[JeromeS13]

I'll be running Hankook RS-3.

[longislandwrx]

I've always used Bridgestone.
The RE-01Rs were my favorite tire ever... Super sticky for a street tire, and lasted a while.

Then the RE-11 came out and was even better performance wise, yet more expensive and not as long lasting.

It is still a GREAT tire, and I plan on using them on 818s, just wish they wore like the 01Rs.

Hopefully the light weigh 818 will stretch the life of everythingincluding the tires.

[metalmaker12]

+1 Hankook Ventus RS3, I have had great success with them on the street

[Rasmus]

Without researching I don't recall offhand what sizes we'll need but if the proper ones are available this economical and agressive street tire is a well kept secret (well kept because they are NOT sold by the giants; i.e. Tire Rack and Discount Tire) that deserves consideration

I've read good things about that Federal 595 RS-R Tire, too.

[Mechie3]

That federal tire is inexpensive too. I've run star specs on the street the last few years on the wrx and mini. Good tire but all the new ones out perform it. They're a bit expensive too. I'm waiting for more tire tests of the new zII and the bfg to see how they do in dry and wet conditions.

[apexanimal]

I'm going to be aiming for the pilot super sports... I'm going to need longer tread life and those are the best of what I'm after...

No 255 width in 17" though...

[metalmaker12]

The rears were 18 on the r

[FFR-ADV]

The rear tires on the 818R are Hoosier R6 P255/35ZR18 and the front tires are Hoosier R6 P205/40ZR17
FFR would have run wider front tires but that is what they had at the time they went to track testing.

I wonder how 225/40ZR18 up front would play with the 255/35ZR18 (or 265/35R18) on back? I hope to learn from further testing once the 818 has more track testing with the final splitter and diffuser on and the suspension is dialed in. The track testing was only preliminary. It could even get better! WOW!!!

Does anyone know what the wheel widths and any offsets on are on the 818R?

Many great options to choose from. Thank you all for contributing!

Cheers!

[apexanimal]

The rears were 18 on the r

Yeah I know... I'm really going to try to keep it 17" though for a few reasons... But we'll see if I have that option when things come time to purchase...

[Samiam1017]

Does anybody know the exact wheels size and offset on the R.

[Wayne Presley]

255/35/18 is about the largest tire that will fit under the body in the rear.You could flare the fenders if you have a little skill with composites. I really like the look with the staggered wheel sizes myself.

[bnr32jason]

I've been asking this for months, no one has answered.

Wayne do you think it would be possible to fit 235's on the front without body modifications?

[pwnoz]

In alphabetical order:

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Kumho Ecsta XS
Toyo Proxes R1R

I'll throw on Nitto NT05 and Falken RT-615K, both good tires and reasonably priced. There's also the Yoko AD08, but all the rest of these are similarly good and cheaper.

I ran the Toyo R888 for a while and didn't like them much. I used them as an autoX/street tire and I got a few events and about 2k miles and they were shot (which isn't unexpected given it's treadwear). They seemed to grip just a little better than a street tire for autoX (though I've heard they need heat to get max grip), but not nearly enough to justify the cost and lifespan. I replaced them with the NT05 and can't really tell the difference.

[nevinsb]

I've been really happy with the Falken ZE-512 tires on my truck for street driving. Has anyone ever tried the BFG sport comp 2s?

[StatGSR]

I'll throw on Nitto NT05 and Falken RT-615K, both good tires and reasonably priced.

I feel like the 615 has turned into a drifters tire.... they are still probably good on the street, but they just cant compete with the others that have been listed above.

Rasmus's list pretty with the addition of the new BFG Rival, pretty much covers the current lineup of track day tires that can still survive on the street, a few of those choices are going to be a bit noisy just for driving around though.

I have run both the RS3s and the Kuhmo XSs on the track in my integra. the XSs are a great starter tire because they will scream at the limit to let you know your there, but they will still hold there too, going from those to the RS3s which don't hardly make a sound at the limit is a little nerve racking. IMO the XS makes a fantastic DD and Drive on the track summer tire, but for ultimate grip the RS3s win out. looking to try a couple more tires this year as well. if i can get the right sizes it will be either the Rival or the new direzza, that said i still have a fresh set of RS3s the burn up.

[StatGSR]

I've been really happy with the Falken ZE-512 tires on my truck for street driving.

the ZE-512 is an all season tire with a 360 treadwear and a 30,000 mile warranty, its no where near competition for the tires that have been mentioned.

[Xusia]

This thread is about tire options to maximize handling, so I can see your point. nevinsb might have thinking more along the lines of a DD tire that would actually last. While not exactly true to the thread title, it's still a helpful option for those that may desire such a tire.

[bnr32jason]

My 818 isn't going to be a daily driver, so I think it will take me ~3 years to go the 12,000 miles or so that my last set of Advan AD08's lasted me (that includes 10 or so AutoX days).

Are some of you guys going to be using your 818's as daily drivers? I could understand wanting tires that lasted longer in that case, but I don't think I would want a tire capable of 30,000 miles on a weekend car. By the time I hit even half of that life they would have been through tons of heat cycles and probably start developing cracks in the sidewall.

[FFR-ADV]

Those Federal 595 RS-R Tires sure look like they could still be used on the street but yet give most of the performance of the Hoosier "DOT" Track Tires that the 818R was tested with. And what a nice price! They might be like the Hoosiers "DOT" but perhaps they could be used on the street?

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/...g+90w+bsw.html

Does anyone have direct experience running the Federal 595 RS-R Tires on the street or track?

Cheers!

[nevinsb]

My bad... I was when I read the thread, I saw the title that said "When off of the track" and "probably not suited for real street use." By this I determined that a "DOT approved competition tire" was not exactly what you, or atleast my self were looking for. Doubly so since wet traction is going to be horrible on a competition tire. I was also considering that under normal driving conditions, you are not going to get competition tires to handle good since they will either be picking up rocks with a soft tire or be hot enough for optimum handeling, considering our spring/fall autocross is still pretty cold. I am also going to go ahead and say that despite having a 30,000 mile waranty, they do not last anywhere near their manufacturer expected life, and even with occasional autocross use, they will either harden or run out of tread within 3 years anyways on a 3000lb vehicle, especially when you have to run 6PSI over the maximum pressure to keep the treadwear on the tire instead of the sidewall. Hopefully I will be able to lose a few PSI this season with the shorter upper control arms and taller ball joints, but that is a story for another day.

That being said, those are huge tires for a 1800lb car. They are the same size as the tires I run on my truck, on which I mentioned the 512s I rather liked for comparison. Tire rack didn't even start carrying the Comp 2 tires (At least in a size I had heard of) until the middle of last season. I know you guys have a lot more experience beating up tires, so I figured someone would have tried them by now since they are a high performance summer competition street tire.

Which is why I asked if anyone had tried the BFG G-Force Sport COMP 2 tires, which have the same traction rating as the R888 previously mentioned, despite probably being a few pounds heavier.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my question.

[bnr32jason]

Which is why I asked if anyone had tried the BFG G-Force Sport COMP 2 tires, which have the same traction rating as the R888 previously mentioned, despite probably being a few pounds heavier.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my question.

I looked up those BFG Sport Comp 2 tires and they are nowhere near R888's. They have a 340 treadwear rating and are considered "Ultra High Performance Summer Tires" where R888's are DOT Competition Tires and have a 100 treadwear rating. Something comparable to the Sport Comp 2's would be something like Dunlop DZ101's.

From personal experience I can say the two best tires out there for street/track and still great in the rain is the Advan AD08 and the Bridgestone RE-11. The RE-11's have just slightly more max grip but the AD08's have quicker turn-in and do better in the rain.

[Silvertop]

Which is why I asked if anyone had tried the BFG G-Force Sport COMP 2 tires, which have the same traction rating as the R888 previously mentioned, despite probably being a few pounds heavier.

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my question.

I have no direct experience with the G-Force Sport Comp 2, but it is rated as the best performer in a tire test which rated top tires in the Ultra High Performance Summer Tire Category. This tire class is for tires that are meant to be used primarily on the street, but perform well on the track also, while still having reasonable street habits. They are designed to get better treadwear than outright competition tires and tires in the Extreme High Performance Summer Tire category (although they don't come with a treadwear mileage warranty). The Sport Comp 2 is considered to be particularly good in the wet. The downside is that they are a little on the noisy side.

The #2 tire in this category is the Bridgestone RE760S. Dry performance is on par with the G-Force Sport Comp 2, but is not as good in the wet when running at the limit. It provides the best road comfort in the test group, and is easily the quietest of the bunch also. Probably the tire I will select for my build.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Those Federal 595 RS-R Tires sure look like they could still be used on the street but yet give most of the performance of the Hoosier "DOT" Track Tires that the 818R was tested with. And what a nice price! They might be like the Hoosiers "DOT" but perhaps they could be used on the street?

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/...g+90w+bsw.html

Does anyone have direct experience running the Federal 595 RS-R Tires on the street or track?

Cheers!

I do not have direct personal experience with them on my own car but run with several guys who are now using them on both light and heavy cars after having tried most of the other "hot" tires such as Star Specs, RE11s, RS3s, Kumho XS, etc. These drivers all have DECADES of competition experience so I weigh their opinions heavily. They all use them as their street and track tire and coincidentally several of us recently had a conversation about the RS-R street manners, primarily in the wet since it's clear that they work well dry. They reported that they handle rain on a par with the XS and RS3. As far as on track goes the results speak for themselves; they are as fast or faster than the same car/driver combinations were when on the big name rubber. One in particular picked up ~2 seconds on a 60 second course over the Toyo 888s and RA1s he ran previously---I am well aware of this because we're classed together and that is how much he was behind me before changing; now he's making me work my a$$ off to stay ahead ! They are good enough that there was a recent campaign to have them excluded from SCCA street tire classes which the Solo Events Board ultimately shot down. ***(My personal opinion is that BFG, Bridgestone and Tire Rack were the driving force behind that movement)*** If they were available in 315/35-17 I'd be trying a set on the roadster.

Jeff

[bnr32jason]

Interesting, thanks for the info on the RS-R's. Many of the drifters here in Japan use them as their front tires, but I haven't seen too many people here use them for touge or gymkhana/autoX.

They are fairly cheap too aren't they?

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks Jeff,

That is pretty high praise for the Federal 595 RS-R Tires. Given that they are available in the sizes used on the 818R in track testing and great price they are at the top of my list for my 818SR build right now. Thanks for the detailed reply.

Cheers!

[longislandwrx]

Certain sizes of the RE-11 are showing closeout or discounted... Either they weren't popular (which I doubt) or a successor will be released pretty soon.

[bnr32jason]

Yeah I would imagine the RE-11's and possibly the Advan AD08's are due for a replacement within the next year or so. I think I bought my first set of AD08's in 2009 and the RE-11's came out around the same time.

[philly15]

they released the RE-11A not too long ago thats probably why the originals are on close out, but for daily tires i am going with the toyo proxes R1R's, they have been proven reliable and a good fit for very light cars from what my friend and i have been reading across various forums i am very curious about the new BFG rivals so far it seems people who run auto x events with wrx's have good luck with them due to there seeming to be a solid tread section on the outer edge of the tire with the subaru mcpherson strut setup ive ran the RS-3's before and im not too impressed as far as a track tire but for a street tire they were fun the problem i had at the track is i couldnt keep em hot enough once they got hot my times kept getting better but in wisconsin where it could be 90 one day and 45 the next i would hate to be driving on rs3s overall though you really cant argue when it comes to the price versus say the ad08 or re11

[bnr32jason]

If I end up somewhere besides Seattle for graduate school, somewhere like Arizona where it doesn't rain half the time, I might consider something like Advan A050's (replacement for the A048) or the Bridgestone RE11S




Those would be fun street tires.

[FFR-ADV]

255/35/18 is about the largest tire that will fit under the body in the rear.You could flare the fenders if you have a little skill with composites. I really like the look with the staggered wheel sizes myself.

Hi Wayne,

I like the staggered look also. Can you please tell us what tire sizes were used on the 818R up front during the recent testing?

Thanks!

[apexanimal]

^205/40-17

[bnr32jason]

205? Do you have a source for that information? That seems awfully small.

I know the gallery shots shows a 225/40 for both the S and the R. I can't imagine them using such a small tire for track testing.

[RM1SepEx]

a 205 is not a small tire for a 2000 lb car with driver...

stock 2011 Lotus Exige tire sizes...

195/50-16 (Front)
225/45-17 (Rear)

It is about the closest "production" car to a 818 in size and performance

the new 2013 Lotus Exige S is heavier... still only 205's in the front

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-...pecifications/

How about a new Miata... a bit heavier...

205/50-16

I'm expecting to try 205 in the front and 225 -235 in the rear on my 818

it's all about balancing the grip levels and there is less weight on the fronts