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Thread: Carl's Mk 4 Roadster Build

  1. #721
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Over the weekend I completed the mock up of all the fittings that go on the trunk lid:

    Trunk License Plate Access Cover:

    The kit does not come with a cover for the access hole for the license plate light so I made a template from a file folder and cut out the cover from left over aluminum. This photo is after drilling the holes and grinding out for the trunk light switch.



    The cover was roughly cut and then trimmed, ground and sanded to fit in the recess of the access. With the help of a little heat the aluminum was bent to the curvature of the opening.



    Trunk Light:

    The light is designed to be recessed into the aluminum so a hole was cut out and four holes drilled to support the light. Because I wanted to be able to shut the light off with the trunk open a toggle switch was added to the circuit and mounted between the light and the handle.



    In hindsight I wish I had looked a little harder to find a round light which would have looked better; this one does put plenty of light out.



    The light is controlled via a mercury type tilt switch which provides an input to the InfinityBox system. The power comes from the rear POWERCELL mounted in the trunk. Power and grounds for the lights are routed through a 3 pin weather pack which allows the trunk to be removed with all wiring installed (that is after its painted and reassembled).

    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  2. #722
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    ********** Prop Rod Installation - Revised

    After getting information from EdwardB (Paul) I stole his idea for mounting the upper ********** Trunk Prop Rod. Using a coat hangar wire and double sided tape I managed to get the 1/4" aluminum backing plate to the right position on the DS rib of the trunk lid.

    Instead of pulling the part back out a slopping on the HSRF I decided just to "inject" the HSRF between the fiberglass and the plate.



    Once primed and painted this will be a much cleaner installation than the one i previously planned.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  3. #723
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Painting Preparations ...

    The last few weeks have been focused on getting ready for painting ....

    Essentially I am converting the three car garage into a large paint booth so that I can paint the body, doors, hood and trunk lid. One of the fellows srobinsonx2 over on the Factory Five Forum has just completed painting his roadster and has done an excellent job documenting the entire process including documenting the advice of two of the premier painters ... Jeff Miller and Jeff Kleiner ... or Jeffs Squared!. I have made a few modifications ... but not many ... to their recommendations.

    I have also started gathering all the consumables for the paint job ...

    Body Buck: The original dolly was modified ... extended to 96" and the casters replaced with lockable wheels. The forms that support the body at both ends were fabricated and a "reverse" version cut. This was all driven by my experience earlier in the build trying to work on the underside of the body ... it was unstable on the older version of the dolly.



    After completeing the work on the underside of the body ends or forms (I obviously don't know what to call them) will be removed and the traditional FFR versions will be installed so the body can be mounted right side up.



    I understand that I can trim off part ends of these to allow easier access when painting ....

    Jeffs Squared both recommend (which means I shall) that the body, hood, doors and trunk lid be painted in the same orientation they fit on the frame. Jeff Kleiner provided information on the fixtures he used to achieve that goal without having to use the frame.

    Doors: The fixture is fabricated to allow the doors to be suppprted by the top two hinge bolts and gives access to both sides of the door for painting. My modifications included: 1. Using 3/8"-16 Hardware to install the casters and the upright to the base (allows me to take it apart for storage and transport (BTW the bolts on the door are 3/8"-16 so all the gphardware is common); and, 2. Lockable wheel casters where installed to make the thing easier pro move around.







    The hood and trunk lid are set up pretty much the same. They are both designed so you can flip ypthe over to paint the underside of the two parts. A couple of things I learned the hard way ... 1. make sure the front base is wide enough; and, 2. The legs tall enough to allow the parts to be rotated.

    The bases were constructed with some rough scrap lumber ... 2"x 4" for the base and 1"x 4" for the legs. The rods were tubes I had around the shop or porch asked dowl from the local HW store. The eye bolts were 1/4"-20 5".1/4" - 20 all thread was used for other supports as well as one section of 3/8"-16 all thread for the rear of the hood.

    Hood: The only additional materials for the hood was two small pieces of 3/4" square tube drilled for the 1/4" on the short side and for two 3/16" rivets on the longer side.



    Trunk Lid: The rear base was mounted through the license plate hole and bent to provide vertices support.



    Per one of the Jeffs Squared ... I covered the table and base with a painter's drape (the baby blue stuff in the photo).that has plastic on one side and absorbable material on the other ... with the latter on the side up. If the plastic side is up the paint that dries on the surface can flake off and become airborne during subsequent spraying.

    The next step is rearranging the garage so that I can have plenty of room to get around the parts and can cmplete each coat without having to move them around.

    Again ... the best first time painters thread I have seen so far on these forums is srobinsonx2 on this forum. Thanks to him, Jeff M. and Jeff K.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  4. #724
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Man Carl, I really screwed up... I was in Gainesville all last week and should have got ahold of you and come for a visit. Darn....

    You mentioned trimming back the buck. Something like this will give you better access for shooting around the wheel openings:



    Something you might want to consider is standing the doors off farther from the fixture to allow more gun access:





    Looking good! Sure wish my feeble mind had I had thought to get in touch last week

    Jeff

    carlsbuckmodified.JPGdoorstand.jpgdoorstand2.jpg

  5. #725
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Your preparations look good Carl w/ one exception. The hood looks too high to be comfortably painted. I guess it's a compromise so you can shoot both underneath and top, but the top is what will be most seen. If you want a hand during any of the next 3 weeks, let me know. I am tied up on the weekends though.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  6. #726
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    Your preparations look good Carl w/ one exception. The hood looks too high to be comfortably painted. I guess it's a compromise so you can shoot both underneath and top, but the top is what will be most seen. If you want a hand during any of the next 3 weeks, let me know. I am tied up on the weekends though.
    Craig,

    Great point ... I can use the table it is on for a paint station and setup the hood on a table like the one the trunk lid is sitting on...

    I will give you a call or pm.

    Thanks,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  7. #727
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Jeff,

    Thanks for the inputs ... I was really wondering where to trim those two pieces; now I know.

    I will modify the door fixture to give more room ... with my fat hands and fingers and considerable lack of dexterity I will need all the room I can get for the gun.

    Thanks for the inputs ... next time your in Gainsville come on by .... you are always welcome.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  8. #728
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Looks good

    Hey Carl. Looks good. Super excited to see your finished product. I am not an expert and if any of my advice contradicts anything the Jeff's say, then completely ignore me.

    I am going to second what JeffK said about the door "stand off". Here is what I had. I wish I had more room so I would recommend getting something closer to what Jeff has above.



    One other thing I would do again would be practice spraying more. If you are already experienced painting then this is not an issue for you. I think my poor gun set up and technique caused me a lot of extra work. When I say more work, picture piles of used sandpaper and a big cloud of dust around me like Pigpen on Charlie Brown. Putting down the high build primer and surfacer better would have saved me some time.

    I used the JeffK flip flop method for primer and surfacer. I then just painted one side at a time when I got to sealer, basecoat, and clear. Jeff Miller recommended this and I was worried flipping the panels over after clear would inevitably stir up some dust that would get in the clear. I also had limited space and the flip flop apparatus took up a lot of space. I am sure either way would work so don't change because of what I did. Just sharing.

    Looking good man. You are getting close now. Have you selected a color? Or is that a secreat?
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  9. #729
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Srobinsonx2,

    Thanks ... I have read your thread many times and have downloaded to my iPad so that I can refer to it in the garage.

    Yesterday I managed to get some of Jeff K's recommendations in place.



    [IMG]https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/000060644384/media/93419569116/medium/15050622
    51/enhance[/IMG]

    I set up the hood on a pair of sawhorses and some OSB ... to make them about level with the trunk lid.





    Paint colors ... Wimbleton White with ghosted stripes ....

    I still have some moving around to to get the flow right ...
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  10. #730
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Carl,

    The stand offs look good on the doors. Wish I had done that. Would have made painting the doors easier.

    Through the primer, base, and clear, I tried a number of different sequences. For the primer it didn't really matter. I used the large PPS cups (28 fl oz) and found that one full cup of Slick Sand would cover the body with one full coat. Then a second cup would allow me to cover all the panels with one coat with just a little left over (5 fl oz maybe). I tried painting the panels first and then the body and vice versa. I liked doing the body first but that maybe just me. If I did it again, I would paint all the primer (slick sand and primer surfacer) outside. Since I sanded it all anyway, that would have saved me some garage prep time.

    For the sealer, base and clear, I painted all the panels first. That worked great and gave me way more room in the garage. I have plenty of sealer so I didn't get too worked up about waste. I mixed up a full 28 oz on the panels and had a bunch left over. Same for the body, I mixed up a full 28 oz and had a little left over. For base, I mixed up a full cup and since it is not catalyzed, I was able to set it aside and save it for later. I used the amount of sealer I sprayed to estimate how much clear I needed.

    Doing the panels and body separately really made moving around in the garage much easier for me. Just my experience. As you know, I was only using two stalls of my 3 car garage. If you use your whole garage, you should have plenty of room.

    Having painted my car myself, I find I am very interested in others that are doing the same. Good luck and I am excited for you. A lot of work but fun to learn something new. I am sure your car will look awesome. Keep posting. I want to see those ghost stripes. That should be cool.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  11. #731
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Thanks ...

    I don't have access to even a small compressor ... do you think I could put slick sand through the Apollo?

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  12. #732
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Carl,

    Sorry for the delay in my response. I have been out of town.

    I did not try to apply slick sand with my Apollo gun. For two reason. One, I had never sprayed before and the fear of having slick sand set up in my expensive Apollo gun scared me. Turns out I don't think there was much risk of this happening but I did not know that at the time. Secondly, I talked to the Apollo rep and he said I could spray something that thick but to get a good application (smooth) it might need some thinning. The Jeffs told me not to thin. This makes sense now. Thinning would just mean more coats since you want this stuff to build up. Build up so you can sand it off.

    Here is a thought. I put on a little over 2 gallons of Slick Sand. I put on one gallon the first time. Jeff K informed me that was not enough. I did block that out but quickly found out he was right. So I put on another 1 1/2 gallon. That round I got 3 good coats on and it turned out to be enough to get it smooth. I ended up with 1/2 gallon extra. You will most likely end up with some left over and it might be worth your time to mix up a little and see if you can get a good application with the turbine sprayer. They sale a 2.0 mm and a 2.5 mm nozzle for our gun. I think the tech sheet says to use 2.0 or larger nozzle. If I get some time this weekend, maybe I will give it a try for you. I still have my left over slick sand.

    Another option would be to rent a small compressor and buy a cheap primer gun. I got my gun for around $30 from Summit. Good enough for my short term needs. I have a 30 gallon air compressor. It ran the whole time I was spraying but I never had to stop and wait for it to catch up. You might be able to get by with something even a little smaller. Could you rent a small compressor for a week? I am sure that isn't too much money. Just a thought. Don't mean to spend your money for you. If you are like me, you do that just fine all by yourself.

    Good luck.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  13. #733
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Sorry for the second post. I used the Apollo sprayer for everything after slick sand. It sprayed the primer surfacer, sealer, base, and clear good enough for this amateur.

    If you are going to use a cup and line type system with the turbine syste, make sure you get a pressurized cup. 3M has one, not sure about the other brands.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  14. #734
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    I have been some research ...

    1. Sunbelt will rent me a 7 cfm compressor for $120 per week or a 14 cfm for $160 per week;
    2. I also have an old single turbine unit which I can try as well. I have used it on water based latex before without any issues;
    3. As I have prepared the body ... I have found some more pinholes to fix before I start with the Slick Sand;
    4. I still need to get the Apollo system on order. Which cup gun did you get with the system?

    Thanks for the detailed responses. If you end up testin the Slick Sand with the turbine system I would love to see the results.

    Thanks,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  15. #735
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    I have been some research ...

    1. Sunbelt will rent me a 7 cfm compressor for $120 per week or a 14 cfm for $160 per week;
    2. I also have an old single turbine unit which I can try as well. I have used it on water based latex before without any issues;
    3. As I have prepared the body ... I have found some more pinholes to fix before I start with the Slick Sand;
    4. I still need to get the Apollo system on order. Which cup gun did you get with the system?

    Thanks for the detailed responses. If you end up testin the Slick Sand with the turbine system I would love to see the results.

    Thanks,

    Carl
    No problem Carl,

    Again, no expert but I bet either rental unit would work just fine. I think mine is 7 cfm at 40 psi. Since the larger is only $40 more, I would spring for the bigger one. With a $30 dollar primer gun from Summit, you could spray slick sand for less than $200. Summit ships fast so you could get going quickly if you wanted.

    I got the gravity feed 1000ml cup. In retrospective, that is probably too big. I didn't use it anyway. I solely used the 3M PPS cup and liners.

    If I get a chance I will try to spray some slick sand with my turbine. I don't have any panels to spray so my test will have to be on some poster board. Also, the largest needle/nozzle I have is the 2.0 mm. That is on the lower side of the recommended range but it is worth a shot.

    Keep us posted on your progress.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  16. #736
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Slick Sand Test

    Carl,

    I sprayed some Slick Sand with my Apollo Turbine system. I used my largest nozzle, 2.0 mm. The Slick Sand is very thick and didn't atomize as well as it did when I used my primer gun. Here is a shot right after I sprayed.



    I had to reduce the fan to about 6" and the fluid flow to 2.5 turns out. That seemed to be the best I could get. As you can see it did not immediately lay down very smooth.

    This second picture is after a few minutes. It has evened up a little but still not great.



    I also had to move really slow to get decent coverage. With this slow application, you might run into time restrictions with the catalyzed slick sand. If you mix up large batches (quarts), you might end up with it starting to harden before you get completely done spraying and cleaning the gun. Maybe you could reduce the amount of activator used or spray when it is cooler. With my limited experience, I would stick with the primer gun. I just don't have the knowledge or experience to start tweaking mixtures, etc.

    Hope this helps out. Good luck
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  17. #737
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Thanks so much for the slick sand test ... I am going to get the Summit gun you used and rent the air compressor. I am sure that others who are going down the paint it yourself path without the benefit of a full blown compressor are going to appreciate all your excellent documentation. I know I do!
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  18. #738
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Painting Preparations ... Update

    After doing some more research I came across a brand new 60 gal air compressor (Kobalt/Campbell Hausfield) for $300 normally lists for $499.

    It is still under warranty ...

    So now to decide which gun to buy ...

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  19. #739
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    That awesome. Sounds like you have what you need to do primer, base, and clear.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  20. #740
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Painting Preparations ... Update ...

    Craig's list produced what I hope was a very good deal ... I came across a brand new 60 gal air compressor (Kobalt/Campbell Hausfield) for $300 normally lists for $499. Apparently the original owner had it hauled off by the seller; the seller found a loose wire connection, fixed it and it works just fine now.





    I have started mocking up the connections and have some questions for you experts:

    1. What is the order of installation from the tank?

    - Isolation Valve, Air Filter, Pressure Regulator
    or
    - Isolation Valve, Air Pressure Regulator, Air Filter

    2. Right now I just have the cheaper Kobalt Air Filter and Pressure Regulator. This may work fine but I suspect that I could do better for painting. What do you all recommend?

    3. Paint Gun(s) Selection. Based on my research so far it seems I can get an inexpensive ($30-$40) primer gun for the Slick Sand but what is the recommended gun(s) for primer, base and clear?

    So far I have found the following:

    DeVilbis Auto Paint and Priming System (Eastwood #12506) $154.97

    Eastwood Concours Pro 2 Paint Gun and Accessory Kit (Eastwood #14776) $249.97. It does not have a separate primer gun but does include 2 mm needle.

    Both come with cleaning kits and are gravity fed.

    There are several cheaper systems online but I worry about the quality of the systems.

    Any recomendations

    Thanks,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  21. #741
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Carl,

    For an air dryer I used the following from Eastwood. Devilbiss QC3 Air Filter and Dryer. It has an integrated indicator to tell you when to change it based on a color change.

    I bought a second dryer/filter cartridge as well. I am not sure if this is normal but the indicator showed it was exhausted after my first application of Slick Sand (1 gallon). I then used the second cartridge on my second application (another 1 1/2 gallons). Maybe I plumbed mine wrong or something but the dessicant just didn't last very long for me.

    I bet the experts will chime in.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  22. #742
    Senior Member Gromit's Avatar
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    one thing you can do to help getting drier air is increase the distance from the Compressor to the actual drier. and make a trap that catches the condensate before it gets to the Drier. remember HOT Air from compressor can hold moisture. cold air does not. I even read some where in a DIY guide that you make a coil and put it in an ice bucket to cool the air. anything you can do to remove the water before you get to the drier helps it and you air tools last longer. I think there is a good start in one of the Eastwood how to paint Youtube just my .02

    Chris

  23. #743
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Thanks for the fast feedback ...

    I will check out the Eastwood stuff (I have bought a bunch of their stuff for the build so far so I have confidence in their products as well).

    I could use the Kobalt air filter as the first filter and then the QC3 system as the second.

    I have room for the condensate trap as well so off the hardware store for some more piping, connections and valves.

    Just to confirm then here is the order ... starting from the tank:

    1. Cutoff Valve
    2. Piping for the trap;
    3. First Air Filter (using the Kobalt i Already have);
    4. The DeVilbiss QC3 Filter; and then,
    5. The pressure regulator.

    Does that sound right?

    Thanks,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  24. #744
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Air Compressor Installation

    As is all things I seem to start these days ... the installation of my "new good deal" air compressor took a lot longer than planned.

    Well the installation is almost complete ... unless you guys find something I missed causing me to make some changes and a few other fixes.

    A couple of objectives in the installation:

    1) Maximize Sweat Equity and Minimize Material Costs ... for I am a cheap *******;
    2) Maximize CFM within the constraints of Objective 1 below to support High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) spray guns; and,
    3) Get Air that is acceptably dry and clean out of the system for painting.

    This led to the following choices:

    1) Iron pipe for the piping;
    2) 3/4" ID pipe size through the manifold and 3/8" ID fittings to maximize volumetric flow for HVLP painting;
    3) 3/8" ID pipe size through the manifold and 1/4" ID fittings for the other uses;
    4) Sourcing materials from the local hardware stores where possible including the particulate/mist filter for the tool manifold;
    5) Using a loop in the piping to allow cooling and condensation of water from the air which if need be can be cooled with ice or dry ice (a tray will be added later if this is needed); and,
    6) A drain to remove condensation from the tank and piping without having to depressurize the tank.

    Here are the results:



    The upper manifold is the 3/4" setup for HLVP painting (although it can be used for tools as well). The lower manifold is for other tools. Either one can be isolated for maintenance, etc.

    The difference between 3/8" and 1/4" ID is evident in the following photo:



    I can source more efficient fittings if I find that the volumetric flow rate is too low.

    The horizontal part of the loop is sloped slightly to allow condensation to drain to the valve on the bottom of the right vertical leg.



    A 30 amp plug and receptacle was installed for the air compressor so that the outlet could also be used with my MIG welder.

    The air compressor is mounted to the floor via concrete anchors and cushioned with a steel plate and rubber pads made by Kobalt for the compressor.



    The drain, shown on the lower left side of the tank, has 2 valves in series that allow the tank to be isolated when draining condensation from the tank. The outer valve is shut; the inner valve is opened; condensation drains into the piping between the valves; the inner valve shut; and, then the outer valve is open to drain out the condensation.

    The system was pressure checked ... which of course did not go without incident...

    First I could not get the compressor to run very fast ... turns out I wired the plug for 120 volts instead of the required 240 volts

    Second I had changed the oil on the compressor ... and I forgot to install the fill plug. This became obvious when I found oil spots all over my freshly painting piping, the wall and floor.

    The good news: No Leaks

    Any issues to be concerned about here?

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
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    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  25. #745
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Paint Gun Selection - 3M ACCUSPRAY Paint Gun System with Standard PPS

    Background: After a whole lot of personal research and increase state of confusion on my part, The Jeff's Squared (Jeff Kleiner and Jeff Miller) suggested taking a look at the 3M ACCUSPRAY Spray Gun System. After studying both the 3M website and viewing multiple YouTube videos, I took the plunge and purchased the system.

    3M advertises the system as ...

    "The one of the only HVLP spray gun system that allows for professional-grade solvent-based or waterborne finish application with virtually no cleaning and no maintenance kits.

    This system features a lightweight, composite spray gun body that is molded in one piece, eliminating the complexity, wear and cleaning of small parts and pieces.

    It effortlessly accepts replaceable atomizing heads ? these transparent nozzles can be reused 5-10 times and then simply removed and replaced. This affords the performance of a brand new spray gun, on demand and at a fraction of the price.

    Atomizing heads are available in a 1.4 mm size, ideal for sealers, primer surfacers, basecoats and topcoats; a 1.8 mm size for higher-viscosity materials such as primer and gel coats; and a 2.0 mm size for heavy-duty applications using fluids like adhesives, undercoats or industrial coatings. And fast, easy controls for fan diameter, fluid and air pressure allow for quick adjustment across jobs from spot repairs to full panel coverage requiring up to 12? vertical or horizontal spray patterns ? one gun for a complete range of applications."

    The system requires 20 psig and 13 CFM at the gun.

    So here is what I have purchased so far from Amazon:



    ACCUSPRAY Spray Gun System with Standard PPS (#16580) which contains almost all you would need to spray the car. In addition to the composite gun the kit includes 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.8 mm atomizing heads, an air control valve with pressure gage, 5 soft liners and lids with built in filters, 1 Standard 650 ml/22 fl. Oz. hardcup with mixing/measuring insert.

    3M PPS Starter Kit: Standard Size (#16172) contains six 650ml/22 fl. oz. cups and lids, collar, mix ratio insert and a bag of sealing plugs.







    3M ACCUSPRAY 2 mm Atomizing Head (#16609) contains (5) 2 mm heads for use with high build type primers (like SlickSand). The other sized atomizing heads are the same basic configuration except they are translucent to make for easier cleaning.



    Now that I have seen the kit I need to purchase 3M PPS Large Kit with 200 micron filters (#16024) which contains 25 of the disposable soft cubs and lids.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  26. #746
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    That 3M system looks pretty neat. I have been anxiously awaiting to see your progress. I am sure it will turn out great. Keep us posted and good luck.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  27. #747
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    I will be doing a full documentation on the use of the paint system in this build thread ...

    In preparing for the painting phase and after review of your excellent thread ... a couple of questions arise in my addled head:

    1. You used a sealer after the JP202 Primer/Surfacer. I saw a sealer JP-335 mentioned but was the 1 qt. size enough?

    2. If the base coat is white ... do I use a white primer?

    3. I am planning a ghosted stripe and understand the process would be to tint some of the base color with the color I wan for the stripe. Is this correct?
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
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  28. #748
    Senior Member srobinsonx2's Avatar
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    Hey Carl,

    I am sure the Jeffs will be able to answer these with more details and accuracy.

    1. I used a sealer at the Miller's recommendation. It made a consistent base for the base coat. I bought a gallon of the JP335 but two would have been enough. Miller told me 2 quarts but my supply shop didnt have that size in stock and I am impatient.

    2. No expert but I would use a white sealer/primer for a white base coat.

    3. Sorry can't help much with the ghost stripe. But I am excited to see how it looks. Sounds awesome.

    Good luck.
    FFR MK4 Complete Kit #8952
    Build Thread
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    3 Link Rear Suspension, Gordon Levy 347 SBF with T5
    First start Feb 20, 2017, First Go Kart March 5, 2017, Registered & Title April 25, 2017

  29. #749
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Thanks for the response ...

    At first I had trouble locating a PPG dealer in the Northern Virginia area and I almost gave up (several I called only carried their house paint or commercial lines).

    Fortunately this morning I found a dealer fairly close that can supplies the PPG Shop-Line so I am going to visit with him later today or Monday.

    The weather is calling for cold and rain so I may only get really started on Monday ...

    Thanks,

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
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    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  30. #750
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Air Compressor Installation Bill of Materials

    Folks ... Just in case you may be considering an air compressor installation in your future here is the Bill of Materials I prepared from my recent installation.





    This bill of materials doesn't include the materials installed by the electrician to bring the 240 V power to the wall and I am missing some bits and pieces of misc. hardware used in the installation (bolts, screws, washers, etc.).

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
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    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  31. #751
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Working through the Punch List

    I continued the disassembly in preparations for painting. All that remains to do before I take the body off is:

    1. Removal of the windshield;
    2. Removal of the DS door;
    3. Spot welding the DS SS Roll Bar third leg in the right position; and,
    4. Remove the side pipes.

    Removing the mocked up components was a lot faster than installing them ... duh! I have managed to organize all in boxes on one shelf to make them easy to find when doing the final assembly.

    With the help of some HSRF I filled in some "mistakes" I made when expanding the holes for the ********** rubber grommets. I am not sure it was the right thing to do but I used some some of the material I cutout make the holes for the roll bar to back the repairs in one of the holes.



    Now I will re grind the hole to better match up with the grommet from **********.

    Yesterday I reshaped the opening for the DS side pipes so there was more room between the inside of the pipes and the body ... the pipes and body were almost touching. Now both sides look the same subject to one last check when both side pipes are off.



    The PS brake cooling vent supplies air to the heater and cockpit. The FFR supplied Air Vent Mesh was formed around the ********** Front Air Duct and two self tapping screws used at the bottom and top of Duct to attach the mesh permanently.





    Between other work I managed to get more of the body sanded with 80 grit in preparation for SlickSand application.

    The new air compressor ... and the associated tools is working just fine. I wish I had purchased one years ago.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
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  32. #752
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Painting Preparations ... Update

    I finally found a local paint shop that can provide me the PPG Shop-Line of products. Based on SRobinsonX2 excellent thread on painting and discussions with the local shop this is what I have come up with:



    A couple of notes:

    1. There are 5 levels of quality in the plus series (A-E) with A being the lowest and E being the highest (prices ranged from $357 to $919 per gal of base coat as an example ... B is the one I price out.

    2. The dealer says that a separate sealer is made up of the 2K primer, reducer and hardener but I am not sure that I have that right. What do others use for sealer with this series?

    3. Quantities ... seem to be a little high but the guy at the counter was not familiar with the FFR body sizes.

    I knew there were a lot of different colors available under each of the families (white, blue ...) but I had no freakin idea how many.

    Inputs are requested ... meaning I really need your help on making sure that I get this right because I really don't want to make an expensive mistake.
    Last edited by carlewms; 11-07-2017 at 12:57 PM.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
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  33. #753
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Body and Paint Works DRAFT Process

    I know ... it sounds fancy but I just wanted to put all in order so I could get feedback from the professionals and those that have gone before me ...

    Thanks to SRobinson2x on the other forum, and Jeff x 2 (J. Miller and J. Kleiner) for their threads and inputs on this ...

    Here is the process which includes the major steps I took to get the body work done so far:





    I have not really kept accurate track of my time on the body work so that won't help others very much ... and I am slow as molasses anyway so the times probably would not make much sense anyway.

    Thanks for any feedback ... any time any way!

    The Olde Goat
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
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  34. #754
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Mk 4 Roadster Body and Paint Works - Equipment List

    Here is the latest list of equipment and tools exclusive of the air compressor.



    This is really a list of the major stuff used since starting the body ...

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
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    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  35. #755
    Senior Member Yama-Bro's Avatar
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    Great lists!
    Started dreaming of a Cobra around 1987
    Purchased Complete Kit 6/9/2017, Delivered 9/4/2017, Rolling Chassis 3/30/2018, Engine Dyno'ed 3/4/2022, Engine installed 8/27/2022
    Click here for my build thread
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  36. #756
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    3M ACCUSPRAY Paint Spray Gun System and the 3M Paint Preparation System (PPS)

    With the cold temperatures and my cold/flu I have not been able to actually get out do any work on the body of consequence ... so I spent time getting acquainted with the spray gun I chose to paint the car ... here goes

    I am reviewing the 3M ACCUSPRAY Paint Spray Gun System and the 3M Paint Preparation System (PPS) from a rookie painter point of view ... in other words a first-time user trying to paint his first car! After consultation with Jx2 (Jeff Miller & Kliener) and some research on line I purchased the following items:



    Today I put the gun end of the system together and have the following observations so far:

    1. The instructions that come with the system are pretty sparse but there is plenty of additional information on You Tube and 3Ms website;

    2. This is a "plastic" system ... although a hard plastic one. The gun itself is a composite with a metal needle, valves, hose fitting and pressure regulator/gage. The instructions and online material clearly warn the user NOT to soak the parts in solvent or clean with a gun washer;

    3. Parts of this system are ?disposable? ... meaning that each time you use an atomizing head and the soft inner cup of the PPS, you could throw them away and install new ones instead of cleaning them. 3M does provide instructions to clean the atomizing heads for reuse;

    4. The system is advertised and demonstrated in videos to apply everything from undercoating and high build primers to clear coats. The system has 2.0, 1.8, 1.4, 1.3 and 1.2 mm atomizing heads but the basic system only includes the one each of the later 4 ... so order more of each you want;



    5. Unlike other guns, this one comes with just one needle valve common for all atomizing heads. The pressure regulator is called a flow control valve in this 3M world; and,



    6. The system requires a minimum of 20 psig at the gun with air and paint flowing (or 30 psig without the paint flowing) and 13 scfm.

    Assembly:

    1. Air Supply to Gun: After assembly of the pressure regulator, air filter and hose quick disconnect, that assembly is connected to the bottom of the gun. 3M warns to use two wrenches on the fittings to prevent damage to the gun;



    2. Atomizing Head to Gun: Connecting the atomizing head 5 Nov 12, 2017 to the gun is pretty straight forward but is also a pretty tight fit ... because it?s plastic you have to be a little careful in making sure it?s positioned properly on the needle with the sleeve fitted to recess in the gun AND the trigger pulled to move the needle back BEFORE snapping the head in place; and,





    3. 3M PPS Cup to Atomizing Head: With the assembled cup on a flat surface, turn the gun upside down to fit the atomizing head to the cup making sure it?s fully seated and twisted 1/4 turn to lock everything in place. Flip it right side up and put it on a stand.

    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  37. #757
    Senior Member AC Bill's Avatar
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    Carl, just paint it..You can always put a wrap on it if it doesn't work out..

  38. #758

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    Just noticed you have a cheater valve on the gun (not a fan) You will need to open it all the way and then adjust your pressure regulator at the compressor to give you the constant PSI at the gun. My best advice for anyone starting to spray is to find the settings that work AND DON'T TOUCH THE KNOBS ! You learn to work with a constant...as soon as you start turning knobs to correct a problem you loose your baseline and you will chase those problems all day long.

  39. #759
    Not a waxer Jeff Kleiner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.miller View Post
    Just noticed you have a cheater valve on the gun (not a fan) You will need to open it all the way and then adjust your pressure regulator at the compressor to give you the constant PSI at the gun. My best advice for anyone starting to spray is to find the settings that work AND DON'T TOUCH THE KNOBS ! You learn to work with a constant...as soon as you start turning knobs to correct a problem you loose your baseline and you will chase those problems all day long.
    I'm with my friend there! Read pressure at the gun but adjust it at the main regulator. Kind of in keeping with the repeatability and constants that Professor Miller speaks of is my own preference for a digital gauge at the gun. To me it's much easier to always get back to the same setting when I can see something like "22.0" digitally rather than trying to split a 5 PSI scale on the low end of a 100 pound analog. Here's one that turned up on a quick Google but there are lots of options if you shop around:

    https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-2586...KB60VXMPPN9WVR

    Yeah, I know, more money...

    Jeff

  40. #760
    Carl carlewms's Avatar
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    Al ... that will happen here within the week if I can get back in the garage
    Jeff ... Got it.

    Do you consult with 3M??? There instructions are identical to yours. The only talk about adjusting that knob unless you want to change the fan and each time you do mess with it you need to reset the pressure to 20 psig at the gun with full flow (air and paint) or 30 psig (air only).

    In the end I guess whether it is 20 psig or 22 psig or whatever ... it needs to stay constant. Thanks for helping me out.

    Carl

    T
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

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