Very Cool Parts

Visit our community sponsor

Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 772

Thread: Carl's Mk 4 Roadster Build

  1. #1

    Carl's Mk 4 Roadster Build

    Folks,

    Since I was a young driver I have dreamed about building my own car. I got the bug for sports cars when my Dad would take me down to the local VW/Porsche. While he was buying a green 68 bug, I was admiring the international orange Porsche. Back then these cars were simple and pure; a light car with no frills and lots of power for the weight.

    When in high school, it was to take my 64 VW Beetle and turn it into a dune buggy. Well as we all know family, life and job all had a higher priority so my daily drivers were "store bought" as we say down south. First it was a 1972 Triumph Spitfire I had in college; a fun driving car but painful to maintain on a college kid's budget. After being fed up by the reliability of the Spitfire, I purchased a Toyota Corolla SR5 which had no virtues in the way of sportiness but was Number 1 in Consumer Reports. My next venture into the sports car world was a Datsun 280Z. The last of the original body "z" cars, it was a blast to drive. After that car I went into the dark side driving a 1973 VW camper and Volvo sedan until buying and restoring a 1981 MGB and a Volvo sedan before buying and restoring a 1981 MGB. Although a typically British car to maintain, it served me well making 2 transcontinental trips. After a few years in Cadillacs, I finally got back into a car that provided the comforts and handling I really enjoyed; a BMW 330 CI convertible. In 2007, I bought a new BMW 335I which is now my daily driver. Now I am starting my ultimate dream of building a car by putting together a Factory Five Racing Mark 4 Roadster.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  2. #2

    Build Specifications

    My strategy is to try to stay as true as possible to the original look of the later versions of the "Originals" while still keeping the details of the modern systems hidden out of plain sight.

    Basic Mk 4 Kit upgraded with FFR upper and lower control arms and Independent Rear Suspension (IRS)

    Front Suspension: FFR upper and lower control arms with new spindles Koni shocks and upgraded coils.

    Rear Suspension: FFR upper and lower control arms with FFR supplied IRS kit which comes with a 3.27 gear ratio.

    Brakes: Manual with upgraded Wilwood front and rear with Wilwood pedal box

    Engine
    • Levy Built Ford Small Block 302 stroked to 347 with 425-450 bhp at the flywheel
    • EZ EFI
    • Single Wire Alternator
    • Engine compartment aluminum cleaned and treated with Sharkhide Metal Cleanet and Protectant (engine side)
    • Mechanical Throttle Linkage with Russ Thompson Accelerator Kit
    • 427 Style Burp Tank



    Transmission: Super Alloy Tremec 5 speed with the following gearing:

    First Gear Ratio: 3.27:1
    Second Gear Ratio: 1.98:1
    Third Gear Ratio: 1.34:1
    Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.00:1
    Fifth Gear Ratio: 0.68:1

    Hydraulic Clutch

    Steering: Manual FFR with bump steer kit to be added if needed.

    Electrical: Power distribution is currently planned to use the FFR Ron Francis wiring harnesses for the main, front, rear and dashboard. I am considering using the ISIS(tm) Multiplex System as an alternative power management and distribution system.

    Interior:
    • Russ Thompson Turn Signal
    • Whitby Air Conditioner with heating and defroster with controls in the shallow glove compartment
    • Leather FFR seats with seat warmers
    • Leather or Vinyl dash with SC instrument layout and shallow glove compartment
    • Carpet with edge treatment as in the original cars
    • The cockpit aluminum will be treated with LizardSkin(r) Sound Control and Ceramic Insulation if the overall budget permits. My second choice will be a matting material for the interior surfaces



    Wheels: FFR 17" x 9" and 17" x 10.5" Vintage Halibrand Replica Wheels

    Body: The underside of the body will be treated with LizardSkin(r) Sound Control or similar material with additional treatments in the wheel wells to protect the body from rocks thrown up by the tires. Additional spray on material will be applied to the completed aluminum in the wheel well areas. Other Items:
    Soft Top
    Modified Roll Bar probably Breeze or the FFR version modified to provide slight rake and lower profile

    Paint: My current thoughts are to paint the car silver with a ghosted anthracite stripe but I may go with one of the original colors with a clearcoat finish.

    As I learn more I am sure this will change. Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  3. #3
    Congrats! Sounds like a great build. Post some pics when you can, we like pictures!
    MK III w/3 link

  4. #4

    Garage Photos - Nearly Complete

    Before I could start the build I had to get the garage renovated. I have the cabinet doors to finish and some electrical work to complete. All the major stuff done so now it is time to really start building the car.

    image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  5. #5

    Started Frame Dolly

    I got back out in the garage and started preparing the parts for my frame dolly. I decided to make one with some height adjustability. At the low end the height will be 16.5 inches and the high end of 30 inches. I am trying to use only 2 x 6 lumber, wood screws, nuts/bolts, and swiveling castor wheels minimizing the use of the wood.

    My plan is to use the higher level while working on the suspension and under the car. I will lower it when I start working on the heavier top side components.

    Photos to follow. Carl.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  6. #6

    Rolling Frame Dolly

    I have been side tracked with work, getting the taxes done and everything else that keeps me away from the build

    I have designed and started building a dolly for the frame it is adjustable in height and longitudinal length. It may be over kill but it is my overkill. Because of space limitations I needed to put it on wheels.

    I also wanted to have plenty of room to work under the car in the early stages of the build and I can lower it for the later stages like engine install, etc.

    Photos to follow.

    I also ordered and received upgraded coil springs from Levy. I lucked out and came across a body buck which I will pickup on Saturday. My weekend goal is to have the body off, the panels photographed and off with the car ready for suspension and steering install by the time I quit on Sunday.

    I finally feel like the fun is starting!

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  7. #7

    Rolling Frame Dolly Progress

    Here are some photos so far:


    Frame Rest

    image.jpg

    Lower Support Leg and connection to the lower crossmember. I wanted to make sure that at any point the legs were solidly supported. The top and bottom of the leg take the weight of the car. I used 4 3/8ths 4 inch bolts to secure the upper and lower support legs. This may be overkill but since I was going to be rolling this around the garage I wanted it to be sturdy.

    image.jpg

    This one of fully adjustable frame supports annotated with the dimensions I used. In the high position I will have 31.5 inches of room to work under the car. After I am finished on the items requiring access below the car, I can lower it to have about 18.5 inches of clearance. I will need some friends to help!

    image.jpg

    To make sure all the bolt holes matched up I created this jig to mark the holes.

    image.jpg

    Now that I have got one end done I need to add the wheels build the other end and add the longitudinal support.
    Last edited by carlewms; 04-04-2013 at 04:54 PM.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  8. #8

    Rolling Frame Dolly Completed

    Today I finally finished my rolling frame dolly which I can adjust in height. The photos show it in the high position. When I complete all the work required under the car I can lower the dolly (after removal of the centerline supports). AC Bill suggested I add additional bracing strengthen the upper cross member so I added a 2 by 6 in the center which I can remove when I lower the dolly height.

    The first shows the functional version:

    image.jpg


    This one was upgraded to be fully operational:

    image.jpg

    If all goes right, tomorrow the body comes off.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  9. #9

    Started the Body Removal

    Finally I get touch the car and started removing the body. I removed the doors, trunk lid and hood and started on the front end bolts.

    I have some help coming by on Saturday to get the body off and then finish out the day getting the photos taken, panels marked and then removed.

    This is Fun!

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    517
    Blog Entries
    5
    Carl - I am a novice at this, but I am drilling all the panels before I remove them. The ones that need to be removed to mark up I am taking off, marking them, drilling them, then putting them back on again before I then drill through the chassis.

    The next thing I do is write on every panel what it is, and for every edge, I label which bits go on top and which bits go under. I'm then taking a photo of all the panels in place with close ups and wider angle shots to see how it all fits together. I've even got panels that I can't figure out where they go which I'll be posting about shortly.

    I'm sure I will still have to drill more holes once I get the panels back on for good later on, but the majority should be done, and hopefully I'll know how to put them on and line them up when I do just by looking at the photos.

    Looking forward to watching your build. You will quickly overtake me I think, but it's good to see another build log at around the same point.

    Martin
    Previous forum name was "Fezzek"

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Garland, Tx
    Posts
    25
    looking at you frame dolly, I have no doubt that it can old the weight vertically. However, I'd be worried that when moving it that you don't have enough lateral strength. From the picture it looks like the side up rights only have three screws and maybe some glue holding them. You put 1000+lb on that and it may not hold. Be safe and good luck on the build.

    Is there any reason why you didn't go with the traditional body buck that rolls over the chassis? That is what I did and with the chassis on jack stands I had no problems getting under for the work I needed to do.

    Matt
    99 Mustang SVT donor, IRS, Heat/AC, ISIS power, Mk4 basic Kit
    Donor tear down: Nov '07-Apr '10
    Kit Arrived: Apr '10
    First Start: Feb 25, '11
    Registered and on the road: Nov 22, '11
    Graduated: Dec '12

  12. #12
    Matt,

    Thanks for the comments. The reason for the movable dolly is that I needed to be able to move the frame in the garage. If I do not get my wife's car back in the garage soon ... Wel you know what I mean. I also am fairly rotund in build and needed more room and access.

    The legs are attached with 5 pocket screws on the bottom and 4 on the top and also are glued. I added more support in the middle which is attached by 2 pocket screws on the bottom and 3 on the top.

    I will add another crossmember if after getting the frame plus aluminum on the the dolly.

    Thanks, Carl.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Garland, Tx
    Posts
    25
    You have a two car garage?
    The deal I had with my wife was she had to be able to park her car on her side of the garage every night, and I agreed.
    So, I would pull her car out and the body buck into the drive every time I worked on the car. It only took about 5 min. It was usually between 10pm and midnight and some Saturdays. When I was done I'd pack it all back in there. Believe me it was a pretty tight fit. Since I haven't seen you garage I don't know what kind of space you working with. I'm just saying it can be done.
    99 Mustang SVT donor, IRS, Heat/AC, ISIS power, Mk4 basic Kit
    Donor tear down: Nov '07-Apr '10
    Kit Arrived: Apr '10
    First Start: Feb 25, '11
    Registered and on the road: Nov 22, '11
    Graduated: Dec '12

  14. #14

    Body Off, Aluminum Marked and Off, Frame On the Dolly

    Here is what I got done this weekend:

    After finishing the removal of remaining quick jack bolts and two body screws, the body was ready to remove. I documented the locations in the build manual and took a photo of the locations. I then tagged each bolt set as well.

    I took a lot of photos of the aluminum panels with the body in place and will repeat when I get the body off.

    I broke out the differential and rear spindles and started painting them with POR 15. This stuff produces a really nice coating on the parts. This stuff puts off some powerful fumes so make sure to read and head the directions. Here is a photo of the differential which still needs some touch up.

    Next, while waiting for my help to remove the body, I started the assembly of the front suspension upper A arms and shocks with the 600 pound rated Eibach coil springs I purchased from Levy Racing.

    I ran into the same problems others have had when assembling the upper A arms. The rubber boot simply will not fit on to the ball joint. I checked with another builder who provided me with the replacement part number for the upper boot. I ordered the part from Summit Racing (Energy Suspension part# 5.13102G) so that this can be completed by Tuesday (see attached photos).

    Sunday, with help of my wife and a friend we created three piles so to speak:

    The Body;

    image.jpg

    The Aluminum: now all photographed, labelled and marked;

    image.jpg

    And the Frame (now on the frame dolly)

    image.jpg

    I prepared the lower control arms and test fitted them to the chassis. I will have to spread the distance between the mounting arms on the driver side forward mount. The others look fine.

    Carl


    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Mathis, TX
    Posts
    152
    Make sure your chassis dolly is sturdy. Drive train wil be very heavy, then you have to get it off the dolly. Plan ahead. And have fun. I have a three car garage and it is still tight (wife's car is under carport, and she is not happy about it). I had to sell my Road King to make room for engine stand and engine lift. Once you get an engine lift, jacks, and other parts you will be really be packed. My nephew has an attached 12 car garage and 15 cars and 3 trailers. You never have enough room LOL.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    1,645
    Hey Steve-

    Lucky nephew!! Now that's a collection to be proud of!

    Regards,

    Steve

  17. #17

    Learning Lessons

    While waiting for some suspension parts to arrive, i took a shot at the first F-panel drilling the holes for the rivets and making two mistakes. I then proceeded to fix these holes with metal repair material. The lesson learned here is to check fit up and interference with the rivet gun prior to drilling the holes and to check the location where the rivets are going to make sure they are not going into the side of the tube or in a weld area.

    I also used this panel to experiment with the cleaning and then applying the SharkHide. What I found is the acetone cleaner does not always clean off the markings from the aluminum production but does easily take the marker ink off applied to mark the panels for riveting. I used a 180 grit sanding block to put some grain on the inside of the panel and then put a coat of SharkHide. It looks pretty good.

    image.jpg

    I learned the value of mocking up prior to assembly. The UCAs arrive assembled (except the ball joint components). All bolts are loose including the ones holding the arms to the base. As delivered there was not sufficient gap between with the panel and the nut and would have caused damage to the panel. I tightened them down using a vice to hold the UCA and will have plenty of room to check final torque once mounted.

    The photo (below from one of e forums) shows the black bolt and nut on the forward mount and what looks like a cadmium version on the rear mount. After picking up the free body buck I tried to find the "brassy" looking bolts shown in the photo but cannot find in the box where I inventoried them, so I either misplaced them or did not identify them correctly in during the inventory. While a flanged nut does not fit, a standard nut of the same size and thread pitch does with enough room to get a socket on the nut. The basic manual is silent on the subject. The net shows both versions on a Mk 4.

    image.jpg

    I also picked a body buck today which saved a lot of time and effort.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Mathis, TX
    Posts
    152
    Yeah, I'm terrible jealous. He has a Roadrunner that has original paint and interior (his best friend died and willed it to him) and looks like new. That's my favorite in his collection.
    Have a great day!

  19. #19

    More Lessons Learned

    I am having "fun" learning and the curve is steep!

    After purchasing my third rivet gun (I know I put the first two somewhere) and a 36mm socket to torque on the bolt for the front hubs, I did my first set of panels on the car. I installed the F panels. Wow what a way to learn about drilling, riveting and finishing all in one panel. While I marked all panels before they came off the vehicle, I found that I needed to remount the panels to make sure that the locations I selected for the rivets would work on the square tube (in one case the hole went through the tube edge vice the center of the tube or I could not get the rivet gun in position).

    I also found that great care must be taken with the bead of adhesive that goes between the panel and the square tube. It can get pretty messy if you are not careful with positioning of the panel and as you rivet the panels the gooey stuff comes out the edges. I found cleaning with acetone immediately got the stuff of the face of the panel and I left the stuff on the edges to dry and then cut it off. What is the best way to clean this stuff?

    I also learned some important lessons and suggestions from my brother, a certified aircraft mechanic. First was to make sure the hole drilled is as close to the diameter of the rivet being used in order to get the rivet to set correctly. In his experience he says they work best when the rivet has a very tight fit when inserted in the hole before applying the tool to the rivet. Practice first before actually doing it on a real panel.

    image.jpg

    I re sprayed the undercoating again after installation and cleaning which improved the appearance. I am not totally satisfied but in the case "better is the enemy of good enough" since most of this area is well hidden. The glare of the flash does make it look worse than it is.

    The rubberized undercoating took a beating from my cleanup. Here is the panel cleaning with acetone which left the rubber looking splotchy.

    image.jpg

    After re spray it looked a lot better.

    image.jpg

    I am still awaiting parts from Grainger which should arrive Friday to finish the upper A arm installation. The parts for the installation of the remaining front suspension are now ready for installation. The front spindles are already powder coated so I will not paint with POR.

    The differential and rear spindles have been painted with POR 15. It took longer than I planned to get a full coat on all parts but they are now fully protected.

    If it were not for the forum and others this list of lessons learned would be much longer.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  20. #20

    Front Suspension Starting to Come Together

    I repaired the paint job on the one F-panel after sanding it down a little. It looks a lot better but still not perfect.

    The upper arms were temporarily installed on both sides (I still need to replace the rear nuts when the new ones arrive from Grainger and I will still need to torque the bolts on the base). I then tackled the installation of the shocks and coils and ran into another one of the eccentricities of building these cars.

    There are shims used to center the upper and lower connections between the shocks and the A arms.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    Two shims like the one on the left are used on the Lower A arm and the right are used for the upper A arm. According to the parts list they measure .43 and .675 inches respectively however the parts as delivered were oversized by 3 to 7 thousands. I filed them down with a flat file to get a snug fit.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    I know need to take the upper A arms off and torque the bolts holding the arms to the base and reinstall the upper arms using the nuts received from Grainger.

    I am also converting the parts lists into an excel spreadsheet so I can rapidly identify the parts by part number. This is particularly important when dealing with the bundled components like nuts and bolts. For example the nuts, bolts, washers and spacers are packaged in a bag with the assembly number 11074 (Roadster IFS Components) for the IFS; there is nothing in the package correlating them to the part number. I identified the parts during the inventory months ago, and in hindsight, I could have marked the individual parts which make this all easier now.

    The manuals are really designed to build with a donor or without and not a "hybrid" of the two kits, so I am constantly jumping between the two as well as the great book by Brian Smith (How to Build Cobra Kit Cars).

    In some ways all of this adds to the excitement of building one of these cars but adds to the frustration factor as well.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  21. #21
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    3,833
    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    I am having "fun" learning and the curve is steep!

    I also found that great care must be taken with the bead of adhesive that goes between the panel and the square tube. It can get pretty messy if you are not careful with positioning of the panel and as you rivet the panels the gooey stuff comes out the edges. I found cleaning with acetone immediately got the stuff of the face of the panel and I left the stuff on the edges to dry and then cut it off. What is the best way to clean this stuff?

    I also learned some important lessons and suggestions from my brother, a certified aircraft mechanic. First was to make sure the hole drilled is as close to the diameter of the rivet being used in order to get the rivet to set correctly. In his experience he says they work best when the rivet has a very tight fit when inserted in the hole before applying the tool to the rivet. Practice first before actually doing it on a real panel.

    The rubberized undercoating took a beating from my cleanup. Here is the panel cleaning with acetone which left the rubber looking splotchy.

    Carl
    Couple of suggestions, based on my two builds to date: The drill size you want for the 1/8 inch rivets is a #30. (0.12850). You have a lot of drilling left to do! Get several of them, and replace as you go because they get dull or will sometimes break. But get good ones. Many including me have found the drill bits from Aircraft Spruce to be very high quality but also reasonably priced. #30's are $1.65 each. I would suggest getting 10. While you're at it, pick up a couple #12's. (0.18900). That's the perfect size for the occasional 3/16 inch rivets. I don't see any cleco fasteners in your pics. Your aircraft mechanic brother should know about them very well. These are a huge help to hold panels in place temporarily as you are drilling, fitting, fastening, etc. You can get by with 25 or so. For my Mk4 build, I got another package of 100 and still sometimes run out. But that's just me. Aircraft Spruce has these as well. Good quality and good prices. Regarding the adhesive, looks like you're using way too much. A little squeeze out is normal. But not that much. About a 1/8 inch or so bead down the middle (e.g. connecting the rivet holes) is plenty and will spread nicely when you pop the rivets. What adhesive are you using? Hopefully silicone as suggested? Some guys use something more "permanent" but I'm not sure why. With silicone and the rivets, the aluminum panel will basically get destroyed if you try to take it back apart. Using silicone, you can use something far less aggressive then acetone for cleanup. Just plain old isopropyl alchohol will work fine, and won't damage finish or remove your undercoating. Acetone is pretty nasty stuff for your car (and for you). The F panels are probably the easiest parts to install. You have about 60 more to do and it gets a bit more difficult. But it's also a learning process.

    FWIW, here's my build thread for my Mk4. Finishing up panel mounting myself right now. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...ss-update.html
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  22. #22
    Senior Member DaleG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Prescott, AZ; formerly from the Bay Area
    Posts
    825
    I'm really uncomfortable with that chassis dolly; be careful.

    While a bit pricey, OTC has 10-12 ton jack stands that will raise the chasssis from 33"-44" off the ground. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-1779b/overview/ There are likely less expensive yet suitable versions.
    Last edited by DaleG; 04-13-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    SOLD 03/2013: MK II #5004: 5.0 EFI: 8.8, 3.55, E303, TW heads, GT40 intake, 24#, 70mm MAF

    Ordered MK IV Coyote Complete Kit.

  23. #23
    EdwardB,

    Thanks for the suggestions which I will incorporate. I have clecos but from looking at your build site not nearly enough.

    I purchased the Assembly Tools and Supplies Group from Breeze which came with Bostik industrial 1100 FS polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Is this the right stuff?

    Thanks, Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  24. #24
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    3,833
    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    EdwardB,

    Thanks for the suggestions which I will incorporate. I have clecos but from looking at your build site not nearly enough.

    I purchased the Assembly Tools and Supplies Group from Breeze which came with Bostik industrial 1100 FS polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Is this the right stuff?

    Thanks, Carl
    There is no question the poly adhesive is much stronger than silicone. Either is more than strong enough, in my opinion. I just get the caulking tubes of GE silicone at the local Home Depot. Available in several colors and price is reasonable. In either case, nearly impossible to take back apart once dry. Like many aspects of these builds, no right or wrong answer. Whatever works best for you. Good luck with your build.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-14-2013 at 07:03 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  25. #25

    Update and Additional Question

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    There is no question the poly adhesive is much stronger than silicone. Either is more than strong enough, in my opinion. I just get the caulking tubes of GE silicone at the local Home Depot. Available in several colors and price is reasonable. In either case, nearly impossible to take back apart once dry. Like many aspects of these builds, no right or wrong answer. Whatever works best for you. Good luck with your build.
    I will try the silicone you suggested. I would like to get the stuff that dries clear and then my mistakes become less obvious.

    I am going kind of crazy identifying the right nuts and bolts from the packaging (in some cases not marked that well) so things are going slower than I anticipated or wanted for that matter.

    For example, the complete manual shows the steering arms connected to the spindles with two bolts the head of which looks like it is tighten allen wrench. Additionally the bolts do not stick out far from the nuts once installed. The photo from the complete manual shows the ones I appear to be missing. I do have slightly longer hex head bolt with lock nut which fits without interference with the hub (there is about a 1/4 in clearance between the top of the hex nut and the hub).

    1. Is it fairly common to get substitutions from FFR?
    2. Is there a reason I should not use the bolts/nuts that were sent with my kit?


    Thanks, Carl

    Mk4_Roadster_Complete_Kit_Manual_rev_3o.jpg
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  26. #26
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    3,833
    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    1. Is it fairly common to get substitutions from FFR?
    2. Is there a reason I should not use the bolts/nuts that were sent with my kit?
    1. In my experience, generally not. Not saying it doesn't happen, but wouldn't say it's "common." Really important to keep the parts groupings together to reduce the amount of hunting. I agree, that part can be challenging. I'm finding it's easier the second time around, for whatever that's worth...

    2. You've run into a problem that was addressed by FFR a couple of years ago. The original nuts/bolts that were provided with their new spindles were replaced with different parts. One of the changes was to the head, e.g. a full hex head vs. the allen head. Plus the new bolts are longer. New parts and instructions were sent to everyone who had bought the new spindles. (FFR is normally very good about things like that.) Later purchases had the correct parts from the start. So, sounds like you have the right parts. The bolts should be marked "10.9" (hardness) and the nuts have a built-in flange. Make sure to properly torque to the spec noted and that the threads extend through the nut. Here is a picture of the parts on my Mk4:



    What you have also run into is a somewhat common problem, I'm afraid. The manual -- especially the pictures -- isn't always updated. In this case the manual pictures the old style bolts.

    This forum, and the other one if you haven't found it yet, can be a huge help.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-14-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  27. #27
    Edward,

    Thanks very much that clarifies a lot. This and the other forum have been invaluable to getting started.

    In the picture you sent you show the steering arms with what I believe is the taper going up. The manual saws to mount with the taper going down. I thought that meant with with narrower end of the taper facing down. I am using the FFR manual steering if that makes a difference. I must be confused or are yours mounted differently because of the steering arm.

    Sorry to be a pest

    Confused Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  28. #28
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    3,833
    Quote Originally Posted by carlewms View Post
    Edward, in the picture you sent you show the steering arms with what I believe is the taper going up. The manual saws to mount with the taper going down. I thought that meant with with narrower end of the taper facing down. I am using the FFR manual steering if that makes a difference. I must be confused or are yours mounted differently because of the steering arm. Carl
    The picture is a power steering rack, but doesn't matter. PS or manual steering both mount the same, with the outer tie rod end on the bottom, and the nut on the top. The wider end of the taper in the steering arm has to be at the bottom. Assuming you're following the instructions to mount the DSS spindle on the passenger side the PSS spindle driver side (markings are for the rear steer Hot Rod) then it has to be right.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-14-2013 at 04:47 PM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  29. #29
    cobra Handler skullandbones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Superstition Mtn foothills 5 miles west of Gold Canyon AZ
    Posts
    2,669
    Blog Entries
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleG View Post
    I'm really uncomfortable with that chassis dolly; be careful.

    While a bit pricey, OTC has 10-12 ton jack stands that will raise the chasssis from 33"-44" off the ground. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-1779b/overview/ There are likely less expensive yet suitable versions.
    You may be an engineer so please don't take this the wrong way but for safety's sake, I would add another stringer or two up top to the dolley and some gussets to the existing one. As is, if the board fails it could create a mouse trap effect (snap). In this case "a better mouse trap" is not good. The reason I mentioned this is I went over the estimated weight for building my roadster on its raised platform (installing engine while on it). Needless to say, I was re-enforcing it continuously. So it was one of those stupid things I did that seems funny now that it's over. I would show a pic but it's too embarassing. In my defense, I was experiencing some lower back issues so getting low under the project was impossible at the time.

    Sounds like you are having fun. Wishing you the best as you progress. WEK.
    FFR MkIII 302 (ATK), EFI 75mm TB with custom box plenum chamber, 24# injectors, 4 tube BBK ceramic, cold air sys, alum flywheel, crane roller rockers, T5, Wilwood pedals, custom five link with Watt's link, 4 rotors, coil overs, power steering with Heidt valve, alum FFR rad, driver's crash bar mod, mini dead pedal mod, quick release steering wheel hub #6046

  30. #30
    WEK,

    Thanks for looking out for me on this one. Before I crawl under the car in the next few days I can add another longitudinal along the sides of the dolly which will add strength to the one going down the centerline.

    In any case the only component of any further weight I will be adding will be the IRS in the rear followed by the steering rack. After I finish the fuel lines, brake lines and any other of the items that might require under the car access with room she will be coming down to about 16 inches.

    Again, thanks mucho. It is always good to have someone looking after your "six" as the fighter pilots would say. Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by edwardb View Post
    The picture is a power steering rack, but doesn't matter. PS or manual steering both mount the same, with the outer tie rod end on the bottom, and the nut on the top. The wider end of the taper in the steering arm has to be at the bottom. Assuming you're following the instructions to mount the DSS spindle on the passenger side the PSS spindle driver side (markings are for the rear steer Hot Rod) then it has to be right.
    Edward,

    Thanks. I finally figured it out but I am sure slow on the uptake. Thanks for your help.

    I am glad I tackled only one side first to get all the kinks out because I learned a lot from all of you guys in making the PS go better.

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  32. #32

    Another Chapter in the Carl Tries to Build A Car Follies

    Amongst (or despite) the distractions this weekend I managed to get the Driver's Side suspension mocked up and finally installed. I cannot say enough about all the help I received from the forums and build sites. Thanks to edwardB today in handling my numerous questions.

    I thought I had studied the manuals, forums, and build sites before starting but I found that when I was faced with the real parts, I needed to dive in again.

    The biggest PIA was the lack of access to the nut that is used to attach the rear upper A arm to the frame. My kit had a deformed flange nut for this part. After trying other options like grade 8 nuts without flanges, I went back to the supplied nuts grinding off one flanged edge which allowed the nut to fit and served to keep the nut from spinning since I could not get a wrench or socket on it.

    image.jpg

    Here are some photos of the completed assembly:

    image.jpg image.jpg

    I also put a topcoat on the differential and rear spindles.

    image.jpg

    My goal this week is to get the PS front suspension completed, the Wilwood front brakes installed and the IRS installed.

    BTW the distractions included getting the taxes completed (i had to pay) and the lawn mowed for the first time this year.

    Carl
    Last edited by carlewms; 04-15-2013 at 03:40 AM.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  33. #33
    Monday: With respect to the build I worked on the front brakes today and created the first "wall of shame" part. I am sure this will not be the last but it sure was an expensive first.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    Here is the sad tale. I assembled the Wilwood front rotor to the hat. The instruction calls for torquing the screws to 155 in-lb. I misread the setting on the torque wrench and it was set for 1550 or 10 times higher than the max torque allowed. I broke out 2 of the screws before I realized my mistake.

    I compounded that error in trying to ease out the remainder of the two bolts when I destroyed a good part of the original threads on the hat. After I searched the forums and Internet I attempted to execute the procedures but had difficulty keeping the hand held drill perfectly perpendicular. I quit for the night in frustration of my lack of skills in getting the broken bolts out.

    Tuesday: After attempting some rookie repairs with over sized screws, I decided to be more proper and conservative and order a new hat and bolts. These mistakes cost about $261 in new parts plus shipping and 5-6 days delay in finishing the front brakes. I did get a chance to practice safety wiring!

    Lessons Learned:
    1. Use the correct range torque wrench;
    2. Check the setting on the torque wrench numerous times and under sufficient light to really read the settings (specially true on the digital readings);
    3. Use a drill press with a means to hold the working piece vice hand held drill to prepare the broken bolt for removal; and,
    4. Do not work tired!

    Since I was essentially stopped on the front brakes I assembled and prepared the parts to mount the IRS components finding all but the bolts and bushings for the front end of the differential. I had planned on ordering the solid bushings from Fortes anyway.

    I also gathered all the parts to assemble and mount the Wilwood pedal box. Since purchasing the kit, I have decided to install a hydraulic clutch so I am researching the addition of the third master cylinder to the pedal box but it looks like it will be easier than using the cable system (and all the mods and issues associated with the quadrant).

    I have become a devotee to the methodology of mocking up first to make sure all works before doing the final assembly.

    Carl "Clutzy" Williams

    PS. I will eventually make a nice Wilwood clock for the shop from the hat .
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  34. #34
    Carl, I'm enjoying your journey because it reminds me of my build. Yes, there are lots of little hurdles and some big hurdles that you must figure out how to get over. The second side takes 1/3 as long as the first side. You are not the first guy to have a collection of damaged parts. Now that you are about to put the IRS diff in, get some Valium! I used the engine lift with a chain to the diff through the trunk area (before panels installed) and that helped with the weight, but it took lots of attempts and nasty words to finally get the thing into the frame cage! Somewhere on the other forum is a good description of how to get the IRS diff in position but plan for lots of trial-and-error to solve the puzzle, and then some touch-up paint.

    Please keep up the tales of your journey! And, enjoy it.
    Pete
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  35. #35

    Belated Build Update

    I have been contemplating, consternating and yes doing some building.

    I picked up an in-lb torque wrench at Harbor Freight for $20 which allowed me to continue the assembly of the remaining front rotor. After application of red locktite, I then safely torqued the bolts to the 155 in-lb in the instructions. After some more constructive criticism of my safety wiring from my brother I got the PS hat mated to the disk, ready for mounting on the hub.

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    I never did get the pig tail right but I have the DS disk yet to go to achieve safety wiring nirvana. It is "amazing" how much easier this got when I had and properly used the right tools.

    Waiting on the new brake parts, I shifted to the pedal box by first putting up the Wilwood version of the front pedal box panel to mark for riveting.

    The two pedal box mounting brackets which come with the optional upgraded brake package untreated were painted with POR 15 and top coated with Rustoleum Semi Gloss black which matches the powder coating. I am using the POR/Semi Gloss solution instead of powder coating for these parts. I also am using a hydraulic clutch (for which the pedal box was originally designed.

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    Previously I purchased the Breeze AC pedals. The attachment points on the Wilwood system require modification of the pedal and designing a mounting plate.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    I started by removing the "bump" on the back of the AC pedal. I want to maximize legroom and removing this boss gives back about 1/2 inches by flat mounting in the pedal...well this turned out to be a decent plan that I poorly executed the next day

    Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  36. #36
    Senior Member edwardb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lake Orion, Michigan
    Posts
    3,833
    Good progress. You do know it's our job to help you spend your money, right?

    Not sure how you're planning to attach those cast AC pedals to the Wilwoods. Probably with bolts through the front? If you want a really trick clean setup, Forte's (a forum vendor) sells a custom CNC cut AC pedal setup that bolts directly to the Wilwoods. The screws are under the center "AC" logo via an insert that pops in/out. Really nice pieces. As I recall $60 - 70 for the pair. Installed them in my Mk4 a few months ago. Here's a picture, with the insert out of the clutch pedal to see how they're attached. Sorry for the picture quality, but you get the idea.



    I used the cast AC pedals on my Mk3 build. Spent quite a lot of time modifying the boss on the back of the pedals to attach to the SN95 pedal box arms.
    Last edited by edwardb; 04-21-2013 at 06:55 AM.
    Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014.
    Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. #7750 Build Thread
    Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. 03 of 20. 2015 crate Coyote, 2015 IRS. Legal 04/18/2017. #8674 Build Thread
    Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Delivered 12/2/2017. #59 Coupe Build Thread

  37. #37
    Edward,

    I am going with your suggestion and just getting them from Forte. Thanks. Carl
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  38. #38
    Wilwood Pedal Box: Installed including the master cylinders. The most difficult part was getting the rear supports properly aligned with the square tubes after several fit ups and some use of my woodworking clamps I managed to get the holes drilled and the box installed.

    You can mount the pedal box without the front panel on the DS installed. I did mock it up and made an additional piece to cover the rectangular hole outside if the square tube. To make installation of the noise and heat insulation later I made a template using the front panel as a guide. When it comes time to cut the material it will make that job easier and neater. Photos are in the gallery.

    image.jpg image.jpg

    I also temporarily mounted the Russ Thompson accelerator pedal to see how te whole setup will work but also to make sure I have no interferences when running the rear brake line from the MC done through the inside of the pedal box. I will be using a mechanical throttle linkage so final positioning will be after engine install.

    Steering: The steering is installed using the manual rack supplied by FFR. I treated all the shafts and rack with SharkHide and painted the outer tie rods in semi gloss black. The biggest challenges where:

    1. Positioning the pillow blocks to get tool access to tighten the two set screws on each block;
    2. Cutting the Inner Tie Rod Ends. This by far to us less mechanically inclined is the scariest of the mods; you screw this up and you buy another steering rack. The forums have a lot of information on both checking to see if you need this mod and then how to measure and cut the tie rods correctly. Some just eyeballed it, others just cut 3/4 inch off each end and others took a rigorous engineering approach. You choose which you approach works best for you. My suggestion is that you document whatever approach you use for future reference. In my case, after detailed measurements, I ended up cutting off 3/4 inch.

    image.jpg

    I sent the IRS UCA and LCAs off to get the Forte mods done on the ends to make alignments easier. The delivery date on the Wilwood replacement hat has slipped to 5/2, so now I am focused on getting the front brake lines and reservoirs installed and the differential in place. The engine/transmission should be ready in about 4 weeks.

    Lessons Learned this weekend:

    1. Glekos are your friends;
    2. Measure 3 times cut once;
    3. Before embarking on the next installation step, read the forums, consult How to Build a Cobra Kit Car by D. Brian Smith;
    4. Install a hydraulic clutch. Frankly the mods you have to make to install the cable version supplied by FFR are a PIA and increase risks (known failures well documented on the forums). The Wilwood pedal box is designed for a hydraulic clutch therefore it is a much cleaner install. I am using FORTE'S system.

    Carl
    Last edited by carlewms; 04-24-2013 at 05:12 AM.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

  39. #39
    Carl, congrats on your undertaking. I am at about the same stage of assembly and have learned the hard way on some issues as well. I've become a big fan of goo-off spray gel. It really works well on silicone residue, is much easier on the hands and actually makes the bare aluminum panels look better. I use acetone only as a base cleaner when I'm going to paint or glue etc. Good Luck, and remember to enjoy the journey.

  40. #40
    I tried the goo off spray this afternoon and it worked great removing some two day old undercoating. Thank.
    Mk 4 Roadster
    October 25, 2012 - Kit Arrives
    April 8, 2013 - Build Starts
    August 23, 2015 - Rolling Chassis/Engine & Transmission Installed
    March 26, 2016 - Go Cart

Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Vintage Wheels

Visit our community sponsor