Type 65 Coupe - Daily Driver?

[orangehat]

So, I have permission from my wife for a Type 65 Coupe build. Win. I have five children (all still in the house) and the requirement is that they assist me, especially my two pre-teen sons---father and son bonding scenario deal, but my girls are interested in helping too. My issue is, I'd like to make this car more of a daily driver than a race car. I have two concerns before I embark on the adventure - from everything I read on these posts, the Type 65 Coupe is HOT inside the vehicle regardless of A/C, AND the vehicle is so loud inside? Are there ways to overcome these two obstacles to make this into a reasonable daily driver. Obviously I would not drive in rain or snow, but my employment gives me a parking garage that is secure so I am comfortable driving it most days (probably 2/3rds of the time).

Sure, the more horsepower it has, the louder it is, but I'm not insecure about needed that much horsepower. I have sired five children; what is more virile than driving my minivan with my five progeny, right? Can I swap the pipes for something a little more noise reductive even if I sacrifice a little HP? Maybe I could rig a scenario where I can swap out the pipes depending on how I want to drive it.

I will probably never make it to the track, but I will certainly pick my son up from track practice in it. If I take my wife on a date in it, I'd like to still hear her tell me what restaurant she prefers. If I have to answer my hands free cell phone while driving, I still need to be able to hear the conversation. If I'm stuck in traffic in the summer, I'd like to not sweat off three pounds of flesh--would the A/C overcome this.

This will be my mid-life crisis car; I'm 38 now and I'd like to complete it by my 40th birthday.

Any advice you professionals have to give would be greatly appreciated!!!! Thanks for your direction.
Adam

[jkrueger]

A/C and Noise are the first two thing I thought of when I saw the title of your thread. I'm glad you recognized that first off. Having the exhaust exit right by the windows probably adds the most to the exhaust noise. People have routed the exhaust to the rear and used normal mufflers. A little more work, but doable. Use some sort of sound deadening material on every interior panel and the roof. A lot of the heat in the car in the summer time comes from the rear hatch.. It acts as a great green house. A partition to help keep the cool air up front will help. Maybe tinting the rear hatch will help as well.

I built and raced my coupe with my Dad. It was a great experience. You will have a great time with your kids.

JC

[orangehat]

All great ideas, thanks JC. Anyone successfully re-route the pipes? If so, do you have a photo to share?

[jkrueger]

I don't have any photos of that, but search "under car exhaust" on here and the other forum and you'll find lots of hits. Search the roadsters forums as well since it is for the most part very similar under both cars.


JC

[jkrueger]

Try these links for some pictures and threads on under car exhausts. The best one I saw, and would be just fine for a street car, was a guy that cut two 3" holes through the cross frame back by the transmission tail and welded in some 3" pipe and then ran the exhaust through the pipe to maintain road clearance.

see post #22 here: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-fact...ss-member.html

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[orangehat]

Again, thanks for such thorough information! This is great, JC. While I'm asking, does anyone have ideas/pictures on how to insulate the firewall & pedal box area to keep the heat transfer down to the cab?

[orangehat]

If I'm not sophisticated enough to cut through the frame and don't want to sacrifice road clearance, is there a way to baffle the side pipes?

[jkrueger]

Here is what I did on the engine and transmission side of the AL panels. This is heat reflective wrap and it works real well. The driver's side header ended up 1/4" from the panel and I could feel no heat transfer to the inside when the car was running. I also had ceramic coated headers which helped, but I was amazed at what just the wrap would do. I also put cheap insulation that that I got from HomeDepot on the inside of the panels by the headers under the carpet. It was the bubble wrap stuff with AL foil on both sides. Cheap and light but it worked for a race car. Not what I would use on a street car. I would come of the track after driving hard for 20 mins and put my hand on the panel by the headers and could feel no heat. I've seen people use lizard skin and fat mat for a better sound deadening product and I would use those or a similar product on a street car. I want to build a 818 as a daily driver and have been thinking of what I would need to make it as quiet as possible for a kit car.

[orangehat]

Excellent idea. I know exactly what you're talking about!

[120mm]

If you don't want to cut tubing, try oval exhaust pipe with a flat muffler. You can also run the suspension a titch higher than a "normal" race Daytona Coupe.

Insulation and not allowing metal on metal interference is the key to cutting down on noise.

[Cobraphx]

Adam,

My solution to undercar exhaust is oval tubing and SpinTech mufflers. I'll post pictures when I get it back from the exhaust guy early in the new year. I'm running a coyote motor with FFR shorty headers and IRS. It won't require any cutting of the frame. The exhaust goes under the footboxes close to the frame tube, the mufflers are mounted under the seating area. The tubing makes a turn at the end of the frame tube and moves to the center for a rear center exit. I will be doing extra insulation in the floor and thermal barriers to help with the heat.

-Matt

[David_Ingermann]

Highly recommend you go for the 2015 Mustang IRS and load up on heat insulation. Don't see any reason why you couldn't daily it past that.

[BluePrintEngines]

Hey Orangehat

I was reading your post here with some enthusiasm because how you wanted a near daily driver Type 65 Coupe. That is so cool!!

Having built several old cars with and without carpeted interiors, I did have some ideas for heat and sound reduction in the car.

First, on heat reduction. Heat and sound reduction can be accomplished by using material like Dynomat, and other similar brands, throughout the interior of the car along with carpet. Not only would you want it on the firewall and floor, but put Dynomat in the doors and in the rear cargo area as road noise will come through both. Having it on the roof inside will reduce heat from the sun. Like others have said, tinting that big back window will reduce green house heat inside the car as well.

Getting fresh air in the car will help as well even if you are not running A/C. These cars have the footwell areas on either side of the transmission and the back of the engine which allows heat soak into the interior. In the old days of sports cars, like the Jaguar XK150's and XKE's, they installed cowl vents on the sides of the car to get cool outside air in there to keep your feet from melting. The old 1950's MGA didn't have this, and even in winter, your feet got warm. If there is an option for this, I would highly recommend it.

Under the hood, Ceramic coated headers and even wrapped headers will reduce the heat transfer to the body panels and the interior. The pictures posted earlier of the heat shielding on the engine side of the firewall will also help as well. Ceramic coated headers also reduce exhaust noise under the hood.

To reduce sound, something that hasn't been mentioned is how the engine is built. High compression and big camshafts will create louder exhaust note. Keeping compression to 9:1 and reducing the valve overlap in the camshaft timing will actually make the engine much quieter. You won't have the big, lumpity exhaust note, but compromises may be necessary for comfort and quiet. Keeping the duration at .050 below 230 and the lobe separation angle in 112-114* range will make the engine run smoother and quieter. Go bigger on the cubic inch to keep the power up.

Scott Liggett
BluePrint Engines
1(800)483-4263
[email protected]

[120mm]

Getting fresh air in the car will help as well even if you are not running A/C. These cars have the footwell areas on either side of the transmission and the back of the engine which allows heat soak into the interior. In the old days of sports cars, like the Jaguar XK150's and XKE's, they installed cowl vents on the sides of the car to get cool outside air in there to keep your feet from melting. The old 1950's MGA didn't have this, and even in winter, your feet got warm. If there is an option for this, I would highly recommend it.

_DSC5429.jpg

100_1166.JPG

Note the footwell airscoops in the original Daytona coupe, CSX 2287.

[wallace18]

Make sure you go over build threads. They can be a great help.

[11markgibson]

My type 65 has the rear exit exhaust. I thought it was the only one. From reading on the forum it seems like many people want it for noise reduction...

[11markgibson]

If I'm not mistaken the first Daytona had rear exit exhaust.

[11markgibson]

My car has IRS and that is probably a must for rear exit.

[MikeJones]

My car is a daily driver in the summer, but I avoid rain days. It is loud inside and hard ride, but you get used to it. I used lizardskin inside and out, plus fatmat and cellulose in the doors. I also have a plexiglass sheet between the cockpit and the rear hatch which makes a huge difference for heat. A/C works fine but don't go undersized. Of course, here it rarely gets north of 95° and then only for a day or two at a time.

Standoff heat shields on the footboxes makes a big difference and I also wrapped the headers. I installed larger exhaust for other reasons, but they are cooler and quieter as a byproduct.

I am also thinking about retrofitting a hood scoop for cool air in, but the querter panel windows do a good job of that.

I built ours with my son, and I am very glad to have had that opportunity.

Best of luck, Mike

[boBQuincy]

I am not planning a daily driver but something that I can at least take on a weekend trip to the mountains or beach, both about 3-4 hours away. After looking at a lot of FF and similar cars for sale it appears that most of them have been driven only a few thousand miles or less. I am hoping to put that much on in a year and thinking about the reasons they are not driven much.

1 - weather ?: In NC where I live there is a good chance of a thunderstorm most days from about May through September, prime fun car driving season. Some kind of waterproof top (roadster); side windows; wipers; and defroster are necessary.

2 - noise ?: one review noted that the side pipes made a wonderful sound but only for about 15 minutes, after that it went from annoying to worse (or something like that). Would a stock Coyote be much louder than in a Mustang? Is a rear-exit exhaust the only solution? And all the Dynamat we can fit in it!

3 - rough ride ?: softer springs? softer dampening settings?

Just some thoughts...

boB

[11markgibson]

As far as noise, my type 65 has rear exit exhaust and it does make a big difference even if it's loud. All ff cars run stiff front springs (500 lbs on front my car) and is necessary for handling because ff cars don't have a front sway bar. If they had a sway bar you could probably run springs in the 300 lbs range I imagine.

[ricobrafan]

Correction. I am currently building a genII coupe and I have a sway bar. Purchased the sway bar form FFR but need to customize a VPM bracket to properly mount it. Enjoy!

[boBQuincy]

Correction. I am currently building a genII coupe and I have a sway bar. Purchased the sway bar form FFR but need to customize a VPM bracket to properly mount it. Enjoy!

Yes, I noticed that FF and a few suppliers sell front sway bars/kits. I expect the Gen 3 coupe will have the brackets already on the chassis since the FF instructions note that chassis built since 2015 do have them.