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Thread: RM1Sepex Build Thread

  1. #401
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Bob, was the root cause that the early chassis wagon LCA holes were off? Or that the wagon rack isn't wide enough? I just got my kit (and have a wagon donor), so is it safe to assume this has been addressed in the chassis or will I need longer tie rods?

    Thanks,

    Lee

  2. #402
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    rack 1.JPG

    rack 2.JPG

    mine is a sedan, WRX

    bottom line, my rough measurements indicate that the rack is mounted about 3/4 of an inch too far to the left.

    Pull off your rack bellows, center the rack

    the pivots are waaaaay different from side to side!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  3. #403
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    Bob, was the root cause that the early chassis wagon LCA holes were off? Or that the wagon rack isn't wide enough? I just got my kit (and have a wagon donor), so is it safe to assume this has been addressed in the chassis or will I need longer tie rods?

    Thanks,

    Lee
    On my car, the functional center of the steering rack was not in the center of the car.
    On newer frames, the LCA holes were moved in so the tie rods would reach. I don't know if the steering rack mounting was changed.
    Bob

  4. #404
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Eric, Craig, can you check your cars? I think that we need revised brackets to shift our racks to the right about 3/4 to have both sides even. I'd expect bump steer due to the misalignment of the pivots!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  5. #405
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    One more thing to fix I guess. hopefully it's not too involved.

    I'll check mine tonight if Vball/dinner allow time.
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  6. #406
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    I will double check my setup, but my rack seems to be lining up correctly alignment wise. I just centered the tie rods to the frame and centered the wheel and it seems pretty close lock to lock. I will do a closer assessment soon to get an official readout,, new wheels in mail so a go pro test drive is coming

  7. #407
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Mine is off. Not sure by how much. The driver side boot is quite compressed while the other boot was rather stretched with the wheels both facing forward.
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  8. #408
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    This is how I moved mine over. It still needs to move over another 1/8"
    20130914.jpg

    The rack they used on the original chassis is much longer on the passinger side.
    I don't know what that is off of.

    FFR steering rack.jpg
    compared to my rack
    P1040613sa.jpg

    I thought the issue was because my rack is from a wagon.
    I bought a sedan rack on ebay and it has the same issue.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 10-31-2013 at 08:52 PM.

  9. #409
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    That is compressed! That is compressed a lot.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  10. #410
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    so... after printing out the wiring diagram and using my netbook to use Craig's beautiful wiring guide with photos of the connectors... I found that there are two 2 wire connectors to the clutch pedal and I had only extended and hooked up one... the one I can't find on the wiring diagram! So after pizza and some wire extending I was in business.

    I took my starter off, PB blasted the bendix area and manually cycled it a few times.

    viola, turn the key, the starter engages! The fuel pump cranks up etc...

    BUT because of the stupid steering rack issue I removed my lower water hose so I didn't fill her with anti freeze/water and couldn't crank her and attempt my first start!

    Close!

    Unrelated issue: when I hook up my battery the gauge cluster displays the ODO reading... is it supposed to do that without the key inserted? most electronic dash displays don't. If not ideas on where to look?

    EDIT: just had to read farther down Craig's wiring thread! The cruise clutch switch... :-)
    Last edited by RM1SepEx; 10-31-2013 at 09:01 PM.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  11. #411
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Unrelated issue: when I hook up my battery the gauge cluster displays the ODO reading... is it supposed to do that without the key inserted? most electronic dash displays don't. If not ideas on where to look?
    Just check my sons 06 NA wagon. The odometer reads with key off.
    It is an LCD screen, so the drain on the battery would be very low.
    Bob

  12. #412
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    awesome! :-)

    how far did you "shift" your rack Bob? I'm thinking 3/4 would get it close to centered... I really need to get the coolant in so I can twist the key and attempt to start her...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  13. #413
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    awesome! :-)

    how far did you "shift" your rack Bob? I'm thinking 3/4 would get it close to centered... I really need to get the coolant in so I can twist the key and attempt to start her...
    I think after you get all your camber, caster, and toe set you will only need about 1/2"
    All my alignment has been done with string and a harbor freight digital level.
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 10-31-2013 at 09:31 PM.

  14. #414
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    sooo...

    best case is zero bump steer. This results when the rack pivots line up with a line made by through the upper and lower A arm pivots (ref Chassis Engineering, Herb Adams)

    4 solutions, listed from worst to best (IMO)

    1: extend the inner tie rod on the right side, simply cut rod, slide extension tube over the cut portion, re-weld. this yields zero bump steer on the left when straight, maximizes the bump to the right. NOTE: I have not removed the shock/spring to measure how much bump steer exists

    2: cheat the position of the rack, it won't be in the center when straight (Factory Five's current soln.) You equalize the bump steer in each direction but turning radius varies because there are more turns to lock in one direction vs the other
    I've went through all of the build threads, every existing car shows a compressed bellows on the left and extended on the right when straight.

    Erik rack right.jpg
    erik's

    metalmaker rack.JPG
    metalmaker's

    waynes rack.jpg
    wayne's

    3: shift the rack to the right to place the rack in the center of the car, equalizes the bump steer to both sides, allows equal turning radius both ways, equal lock to lock on both sides (as per above) Bob can you do a simple measurement of bump steer for us with this solution?

    4: lengthen the rack slide. make a spacer that screws into the rack and has female threads on the other end so that the inner tie rod screws into it. I'm not sure if the bellows will stretch far enough... I'll be attempting this solution
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  15. #415
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    So that Chassis Engineering thing means that the bellows need to be extended the exact same amount on each side?

    And what if they are not like on those 3 builds? What should we except be the behavior on the road?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  16. #416
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Don't feel the rack needs to be shifted, my wheels are lining up and my wheels are straight with sufficient thread on tie rods and lock to lock very close. Could it been done, yea, does it have to, not from what I am seeing, but a true laser alignment might shift my thoughts. Final assessment is for now it is ok, and should be ok.

  17. #417
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    So that Chassis Engineering thing means that the bellows need to be extended the exact same amount on each side?

    And what if they are not like on those 3 builds? What should we except be the behavior on the road?
    As Dan said "turning radius varies because there are more turns to lock in one direction vs the other" meaning that since the driver's side bellows is compressed more, you'll run out of rack travel earlier (and loose turning radius) making a right turn. It appears that tire/frame interference will probably be the limiting factor the other way (to the left).

  18. #418
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I tore into it this morning

    Bob is correct it is very close to an inch, I got a final measurement of 1 1/8 inches

    I'll make up a 1 1/8 long spacer with a stud sticking out one side to screw into the rack and a hole threaded like the rack on the other end to screw in the inner tie rod end. Not sure of the thread yet, my local ACE only has 16 x 2.0 bolts and the threads are too course. Naturally I don't have such a large tap or die...

    I'd rather do that than shift the rack to split the difference. The current setup has the rack short on BOTH ends, the pivot points do not line up for zero bump steer, I think with our almost parallel control arms a favorable condition exists, I don't expect much bump steer. My engineer's brain won't let me live with different turning radius, side to side. LOL

    ref info

    http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=13
    Last edited by RM1SepEx; 11-01-2013 at 11:27 AM.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  19. #419
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Dan,

    What year rack are you using? Will this affect the 05+ guys with bolts on the driver side?
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  20. #420
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I have an 06 rack with the bolt through holes on the driver side. My driver side bellows is compressed with the passener side popped off since I didn't re-clamp it on yet.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
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  21. #421
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I have an 05 and an 06 with the cast in mounts on the pinion end. They are identical in all aspects
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  22. #422
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    She started right up!!!!!!!

    BUT, I have a significant water leak under the motor... video will be forthcoming!

    2nd customer start with stock WRX wiring loom!

    Can you say PUMPED!!!!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  23. #423
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    She started right up!!!!!!!
    bth_smiley-Dancing.gif

    Congrats!

  24. #424
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    She started right up!!!!!!!
    NICE! how many warning lights on the cluster???
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  25. #425
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    didn't notice how many lights

    I found fluid dribbling out of the gooseneck thermostat area under the car... I spilled some when filling it too so it isn't real clear. resealed it and added high temp RTV. I'm hoping I don't have a "deeper" leak as the water pump is in back of the timing belt cover in that area...

    I have the front shifter cables and the throttle cable to attach and I could go kart her... next week for sure
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  26. #426
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    She started right up!!!!!!!

    BUT, I have a significant water leak under the motor... video will be forthcoming!

    2nd customer start with stock WRX wiring loom!

    Can you say PUMPED!!!!
    great job Dan

  27. #427
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    sooo...

    best case is zero bump steer. This results when the rack pivots line up with a line made by through the upper and lower A arm pivots (ref Chassis Engineering, Herb Adams)

    4 solutions, listed from worst to best (IMO)

    1: extend the inner tie rod on the right side, simply cut rod, slide extension tube over the cut portion, re-weld. this yields zero bump steer on the left when straight, maximizes the bump to the right. NOTE: I have not removed the shock/spring to measure how much bump steer exists

    2: cheat the position of the rack, it won't be in the center when straight (Factory Five's current soln.) You equalize the bump steer in each direction but turning radius varies because there are more turns to lock in one direction vs the other
    I've went through all of the build threads, every existing car shows a compressed bellows on the left and extended on the right when straight.

    Erik rack right.jpg
    erik's

    metalmaker rack.JPG
    metalmaker's

    waynes rack.jpg
    wayne's

    3: shift the rack to the right to place the rack in the center of the car, equalizes the bump steer to both sides, allows equal turning radius both ways, equal lock to lock on both sides (as per above) Bob can you do a simple measurement of bump steer for us with this solution?

    4: lengthen the rack slide. make a spacer that screws into the rack and has female threads on the other end so that the inner tie rod screws into it. I'm not sure if the bellows will stretch far enough... I'll be attempting this solution
    Another option might be to find this steering rack used on the silver chassis. It is longer on the passenger side.

    chassis at carlisle.jpg

  28. #428
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    3: shift the rack to the right to place the rack in the center of the car, equalizes the bump steer to both sides, allows equal turning radius both ways, equal lock to lock on both sides (as per above) Bob can you do a simple measurement of bump steer for us with this solution?
    I'll have to take some pictures straight on at the suspension and draw some lines.
    It will have to wait until next week. I'm leaving in a few minutes to go to VIR for my Ariel Atom driving experience (gift from wife). Then Sunday to Lexington, KY for an autocross. Then to Lake Cumberland to winterize camper and tow home the jet ski. All of this in my second donor car.
    Bob

  29. #429
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Brake, ABS and Airbag warning lights... the brake one is simple, I haven't plugged it into the master cyl

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxjcO...ature=youtu.be
    Last edited by RM1SepEx; 11-01-2013 at 03:08 PM.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  30. #430
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I'll have to take some pictures straight on at the suspension and draw some lines.
    It will have to wait until next week. I'm leaving in a few minutes to go to VIR for my Ariel Atom driving experience (gift from wife). Then Sunday to Lexington, KY for an autocross. Then to Lake Cumberland to winterize camper and tow home the jet ski. All of this in my second donor car.
    Bob
    #winner
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  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    She started right up!!!!!!!

    BUT, I have a significant water leak under the motor... video will be forthcoming!

    2nd customer start with stock WRX wiring loom!

    Can you say PUMPED!!!!


    Congrats!

  32. #432
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    For the abs you need to completely remove the entire wiring to the unit and cluster, airbag, take the bulb out, brake also goes to e brake wire .

  33. #433
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    For the abs you need to completely remove the entire wiring to the unit and cluster, airbag, take the bulb out, brake also goes to e brake wire .
    good to know, the ebrake wire isn't hooked up either, all the abs hardware and wiring is gone don't know about abs to the cluster and I'll get to the bulb for the airbag, all of the airbag hardware and wiring is gone too. I have a bunch of un-needed relays to pull too

    like the rest of us now I need to button up a bunch of stuff to get it to go kart, for instance I found my ebrakes are dragging a bit and I'm having some issue with a hose to caliper connection in the left rear, I didn't extend the lights yet but I have no trust in their stated lengths as I have extra for my wipers and master cyl connections, didn't need an extension for the starter wire, my tail lights pretty much reach, etc..

    I need to do throttle and shifter cables to the front, ebrake handle and will jury rig the front rack stuff until I can get a spacer made.

    I'm vacillating as to getting it running with the stock kit provided exhaust vs jump to bell mouth 3 inch with a high flow cat and muffler. My wife thought it was pretty loud when I revved it up to 5000 rpm or so... just a catted downpipe right now


    Help:

    I'm having problems finding a replacement rack bellow/boot anyone have a source or want to mail me a good used one?

    just found my leak: Water pump to engine...

    UGH might be easiest to do if I pull the motor since I have to remove the timing belt and retime it...
    Last edited by RM1SepEx; 11-01-2013 at 05:24 PM.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  34. #434
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I think I have a boot off a rack I bought just to take apart and see the insides.
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  35. #435
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    When you do pump, make sure to use a subaru rubber gasket, the gates one is junk paper. Abs something has to still be hooked up to illuminate cluster light. I guessing you tried the fuse?, if power is going to fuse to cluster, it might be that. Are you sure besides the huge chunk of abs wiring you got the black ground and red/white wire that runs through the harness to a power source /fuse relays and than cluster. Save the relays cause good to have if needed and not always cheap.
    Last edited by metalmaker12; 11-01-2013 at 10:30 PM.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Help:

    I'm having problems finding a replacement rack bellow/boot anyone have a source or want to mail me a good used one?

    .
    Rock Auto has them
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  37. #437
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    I just filled the hole in my cluster with black RTV to get rid of the abs and airbag led lights.

  38. #438
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Chris, mine had a paper gasket...

    Wayne, Rock auto is out, can't/wont allow me to order...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  39. #439
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I'll have to take some pictures straight on at the suspension and draw some lines.
    It will have to wait until next week. I'm leaving in a few minutes to go to VIR for my Ariel Atom driving experience (gift from wife). Then Sunday to Lexington, KY for an autocross. Then to Lake Cumberland to winterize camper and tow home the jet ski. All of this in my second donor car.
    Bob
    Bob when you get back do us a favor and measure the distance between the two inside front suspension pivots on the WRX you are driving and we can compare that to the 818... Did they make the 818 wider?
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  40. #440
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    From a pure engineering stand point, you want the ball of the INNER tie rod to be at the same distance from the lower arm pivot on each side to have exactly the same bump steer. How the threaded part and bellows look at that point is secondary to moot. Now in the real world, you are going to want your steering wheel straight so unless you have you steering shaft splines index cut for YOUR car it's not going to happen. On both the cars I finished and drove neither had any offset worth mentioning. I had the outer tie rods off the spindles, turned the rack to one end, marked the wheel, turned and counted to the other end, turned the rack back to the middle, disconnected the shaft universal, rotated the wheel to straight up and down, reconnected the universal, hooked up the spindles and set the toe. So if the rack is off center, why not center the inner ball joints in relation to the frame/lower control arm pivot axis and center the steering wheel, attach steering U-joint and call it good? Worst case is you have slightly more turning radius on one side vs the other and not parts to fabricate.
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
    Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos

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