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Thread: Internal CV Spline Mismatch

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    Internal CV Spline Mismatch

    I have an 06 Donor & installed an OBX LSD in the transmission which changed the output to male splines.

    Doing this means the FFR axles for an 06 will not work. Jim advised getting 04 FFR axles and 04 inner and outer CVs.

    He also cautioned me that aftermarket CVs from Cardone had different CV to Axle splines and could not be used.

    I bought 04 salvage axle assemblies. I stripped the CVs and found the two rears that I bought had different CV/axle splines. (Who knows if the salvage yard sends you are a “true” Subaru 04) One of them matches the FFR axle and one of them doesn't. So I have to get another rear outer CV.

    The problem is….How to tell what splines are in the CV before you buy it and take it apart!!!!

    The only externally measurable difference I found is:

    Axle Diameter with “good” usable CV is ~0.915
    Axle Diameter with “bad” unusable CV is ~0.950

    I don’t know if this is always the case, but for those of you with the same issue, maybe this will help.

    Any information anyone can add to this thread…please do!

    Also anyone with a spare 04 rear lying around please PM me….as you know I need it! Right now I'm 3/4 finished with the axle assemblies

    Top Axle alleged Subaru oem 04 incorrect splines ~0.950 diameter axle.
    Middle FFR supplied Axle
    Bottom 04 (?) with correct splines to match FFR axle ~0.915 diameter.

    20130803_072812.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I'm going to have the same problem with my 05, I added a Quaife

    I bought 02-04 front axles to replace the inners, matching the transaxle stub shafts

    so now God only knows what I have until I pull them apart? and my original rear outers won't work with the 02-04 inners either so I need a et of 02-04 rears too? And they are not consistent?

    UGH

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by freds View Post
    I have an 06 Donor & installed an OBX LSD in the transmission which changed the output to male splines.

    Doing this means the FFR axles for an 06 will not work. Jim advised getting 04 FFR axles and 04 inner and outer CVs.

    He also cautioned me that aftermarket CVs from Cardone had different CV to Axle splines and could not be used.

    I bought 04 salvage axle assemblies. I stripped the CVs and found the two rears that I bought had different CV/axle splines. (Who knows if the salvage yard sends you are a “true” Subaru 04) One of them matches the FFR axle and one of them doesn't. So I have to get another rear outer CV.

    The problem is….How to tell what splines are in the CV before you buy it and take it apart!!!!

    The only externally measurable difference I found is:

    Axle Diameter with “good” usable CV is ~0.915
    Axle Diameter with “bad” unusable CV is ~0.950

    I don’t know if this is always the case, but for those of you with the same issue, maybe this will help.

    Any information anyone can add to this thread…please do!

    Also anyone with a spare 04 rear lying around please PM me….as you know I need it! Right now I'm 3/4 finished with the axle assemblies

    Top Axle alleged Subaru oem 04 incorrect splines ~0.950 diameter axle.
    Middle FFR supplied Axle
    Bottom 04 (?) with correct splines to match FFR axle ~0.915 diameter.

    20130803_072812.jpg
    I don't think there is an easy way to find out which you have until you take it apart, sorry.
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
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  4. #4
    Senior Member fateo66's Avatar
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    For the rears you can measure the diameter of the inner cup to determine if it has a WRX sized shaft and spline count or if it has the impreza sized shaft and spline count.

    The inner rear cup on a impreza axle will have a diameter of about 71.5mm

    The inner rear cup on a WRX axle will have a diameter of about 75mm

    I too agree with jim and all the aftermarket stock replacment axles I have seen are the smaller impreza sized ones.

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    Thanks for the replies. I'll check the cup diameters...That might be the really good tip.
    The "good" news is at about $60 a salvage assembly, you can still buy 3 and have spent less than a new Subaru unit. Pretty poor "good" news, I know.

    fred

    Meanwhile anyone with a spare 04 rear outer. I'm a motivated buyer!

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    I may have a complete extra set. Let me look and see if they all fit my trans and rear hub

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    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    The splines stubs can come out, so you could use either 2002 male or with stubs 2005 up, my 02 with a cusco stubs come out, so I could use either inners

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    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    I don't think there is an easy way to find out which you have until you take it apart, sorry.
    For the most part, but oem axles are painted green and have fine spline ends, the after market are never green and the are coarse spline inners. You still gotta take apart and confirm

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    The splines stubs can come out, so you could use either 2002 male or with stubs 2005 up, my 02 with a cusco stubs come out, so I could use either inners
    On the OBX they don't.

    SANY0004.JPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    For the most part, but oem axles are painted green and have fine spline ends, the after market are never green and the are coarse spline inners. You still gotta take apart and confirm
    I was hoping that that was a good clue. It wasn't. The rear outer that doesn't fit is also painted the OEM Subaru green...Unfortunately!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiam1017 View Post
    I may have a complete extra set. Let me look and see if they all fit my trans and rear hub
    I'll be waiting to hear!!! Thanks for taking the trouble.

    fred

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    Ok I have 02 hubs front and rear that I'm using. I'm using an 04 trans with an obx LSD. Both sets of axels I have fit the 04 trans and 02 hubs. I did notice the front out splines are bigger dia then the rear outer splines but that makes no difference to what we are doing. I have a complete set of extra so let me know what you need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samiam1017 View Post
    Ok I have 02 hubs front and rear that I'm using. I'm using an 04 trans with an obx LSD. Both sets of axels I have fit the 04 trans and 02 hubs. I did notice the front out splines are bigger dia then the rear outer splines but that makes no difference to what we are doing. I have a complete set of extra so let me know what you need.

    Thanks, I will PM you

    fred

  14. #14
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freds View Post
    On the OBX they don't.

    SANY0004.JPG
    Sorry never used an obx, so that stub is part of it, ok sorry, just the ones I have used you have options. Hey I would rather use the 05 up inners if someone wants to trade. Damn my clue didn't work lol, those aftermarket guys are getting smarter

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    For clarity, this is what I have.

    One picture of inside end one with the CV "spider" half onto one of the FFR axle splines. Both inside CVs I have fit just fine.

    The other picture of an outside CV half onto the FFR axle spline...no problem. I just don't have another outside CV with the "coarse splines" to finish the job

    Both pictures show a FFR axle without anything on its ends.

    fred

    Outside CV.jpgInside CV.jpg

  16. #16
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    Do you know the spline could of what you have and what you need. I didn't take mine apart yet so ill have to tomorrow and see what I have. I wonder if the axels are one of the parts that are year specific to what FFR sends?

  17. #17
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    More "good" news is that Subaru sells just the CVs so you don't need to buy the entire axle assembly.
    A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    I think I understand, lol. I have a '07 RS donor, and if I install an OBX LSD my transmission goes from having two female spline "holes" to male shafts. So I'll need to buy '02-04 OEM subaru CV joints and tell FFR that I'm using a '02-04 transmission to get the proper axle adapters? But I can still use my other '07 outter bits? And if I don't install a LSD, then FFR will supply the adapters to mate to the '07 CV's?

  19. #19
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Correctamundo.
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    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    "And if I don't install a LSD, then FFR will supply the adapters to mate to the '07 CV's? "

    FFR supplies only the AXLES...not sure what "adapters" we are speaking of.

    I converted my "inny" transmission" with a "outy" OBX LSD...the inner CV was not the problem. The Outer CV AXLE spines being corse did not match my outer CV joint. Both my donor (02) and Brand New axles from Auto zone (02-05) had fine splines on the outer CV joint.
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    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    I read his "adapters" as modified axle shafts.
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    East Coast Speed Machines Erik W. Treves's Avatar
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    10-4..... it just seems like we are taking about diff output shafts , inny vs outer diffs, and FFR replacement shafts and I got confused... at the end of the day it's the outside CV joint that is the issue the OP was pointing out I think...just trying to follow along as I wait for my axles...
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    FFR 6651, Green Lantern, 408W Crate, Hellion 66mm Turbo, JGS Waste gate / Blowoff valve, Tec-GT management, VCP Tuned, 575 RWHP, 690 RWTQ

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    FFR 0004, Gen 3 , Hawk Coupe, Coyote twin turbo, 683 RWHP 559 RWTQ, IRS, VCP Tuned. "not too shabby"

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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    More "good" news is that Subaru sells just the CVs so you don't need to buy the entire axle assembly.
    Yes, but as I noted above...They cost about $235 each.
    In the long run it may be cheaper, certainly easier, to buy new Subaru units...than screw around blindly finding "correct" ones.
    I now consider myself lucky that I happened to buy one that was correct.

  24. #24
    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Correct, even with the right ones from a upick, you don't know the wear level... Unless you are finding ones with good boots, which is rare around these here parts.
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    The Full Story Now (I believe) For the Record

    Communicating with Eric and Jay today the story is:

    Subaru OEM axles have the FINE/FINE spines, and they are having new axles made to replace those supplied by them with the odd FINE/COARSE spline combination.


    For the record:
    The "incorrect" axles I got from FFR have: Inner Splines Diameter ~0.922 (23.4mm) with 29 splines
    Outer Splines Diameter ~0.906 (23.1mm) with 21 splines "COARSE"

    The Subaru OEM axles have: Outer Splines Diameter ~0.922 (23.4mm) 29 splines "FINE". Identical to the Inner Splines.

    (Strangely, I got one salvage assembly that had the outer splines "COARSE" and one that had "FINE" outers.......which apparently was an "aftermarket" unit)

    {Correct me if this is wrong}

    fred

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    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Bringing this back to the top. What Splines are FFR supplying now? 29 splines?
    Thanks- Chad
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  27. #27
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    They can supply with two types, coarse and fine, however neither fit my "new" 02-04 CVs.

    Like you I installed a LSD (Quaife) I found that you can get the correct stock CV by buying rebuilts from NAPA.

    They were only $60 each and fit perfectly, they only rebuild stock OEM CVs
    Dan

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  28. #28
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    They can supply with two types, coarse and fine, however neither fit my "new" 02-04 CVs.

    Like you I installed a LSD (Quaife) I found that you can get the correct stock CV by buying rebuilts from NAPA.

    They were only $60 each and fit perfectly, they only rebuild stock OEM CVs
    Good to know. Thank you
    Thanks- Chad
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    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.
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  30. #30
    Senior Member ehansen007's Avatar
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    BTW guys, if you're looking for CV inners that will work, you can get them on ebay for $56 shipped. They went on a little tight but they went on all the way. Comes with a boot, grease, clamps, and snap ring.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/INNER-CV-JOI...1ad9f9&vxp=mtr

  31. #31
    Senior Member fateo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.

    This could be an OEM 08+ WRX/ STI axle because I know on my STI the OEM axles do not have the inner ring.
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  32. #32
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    I haven't ordered the Amazon CV because the photo shows a female outer housing and my 06 needs a male housing. However, the photo shows 29 splines which is good. Indeed this is confusing!


    My Subaru dealer parts guy says they don't have rebuilt CVs for the turbo models and the new front inner CV is $221! Arrgh!
    I'll keep looking.
    Pete
    Last edited by AZPete; 10-16-2013 at 01:48 PM. Reason: added dealer info
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  33. #33
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    The CVs are certainly confusing! I bought a reman front axle at NAPA ($62.49, $88 core) but it is a rebuilt aftermarket axle, not rebuilt OE. The tri-lobe inner CV has no internal clip like OE so it is held together by the boot only; has 30 splines so doesn't fit FFR or OE Axle. You can recognize it by the flat outer surfaces whereas the OE housing has curved (convex) surfaces. This applies to 2006 only, maybe others, maybe not. There seem to be several OE designs for different years and several aftermarket designs. I'll return this axle to NAPA and continue my search but I can now spot the bogus units from OE by the outside flat surfaces. I've heard Subaru dealers have reman so I'll try them.
    I bought my early female inner axles from NAPA


    Part Number: NMD 953170
    Product Line: NAPA MaxDrive
    retail 55 with 12 core

    I got them for under 60 inc. core charge with my discount from them... They tell me they ONLY rebuild stock OEM CVs slipped together easily now my Quaife equipped 05 transaxle is all set.
    Dan

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  34. #34
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    I hear you, Dan, but NAPA NMD 953175 is listed for an 06 WRX and it's not rebuilt OE. I wish it were! I've been calling boneyards and none have an 06 WRX, so far.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
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  35. #35
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    look at my number... 953170, it is for the early, 02 WRX because with my Quaife I have the external output shafts from the diff and female inner CVs just like you need with the OBX.

    If you need stock OEM CVs I have a full set of 05 axles, 70K miles, I used another pair for my fronts. Want me to verify that they are OEM for you? Like everything else that I have that I don't need they are for sale! :-) I can have an answer for you in an hour
    Dan

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  36. #36
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    How about some pictures/ specs on the FFR axels they ship? 29 spline for turbo? Mine did not come with my kit, I hope they are shipping them soon.
    Thanks- Chad
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  37. #37
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Plavan View Post
    How about some pictures/ specs on the FFR axels they ship? 29 spline for turbo? Mine did not come with my kit, I hope they are shipping them soon.
    My kit (10/12 production, delivered last weekend) had the axles in it, so I would guess you should get yours soon. The're in storage with other parts I won't need for a while, but I was going to get over there today, and would be happy to take a photo/measurements if it would help (06 WRX donor config).

  38. #38
    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    My kit (10/12 production, delivered last weekend) had the axles in it, so I would guess you should get yours soon. The're in storage with other parts I won't need for a while, but I was going to get over there today, and would be happy to take a photo/measurements if it would help (06 WRX donor config).
    OK, my axles (for an 06/07 WRX donor) are 29 spline on each end. Here's a photo if it helps:

    IMAG0531.jpg

  39. #39
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    OK, my axles (for an 06/07 WRX donor) are 29 spline on each end. Here's a photo if it helps:

    IMAG0531.jpg
    Thanks- Just wanted to confirm 29/29
    Thanks- Chad
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    1969 Porsche 911ST Vintage Race Car
    1972 Porsche 911T (#'s matching undergoing nut & bolt resto in my garage)

  40. #40
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    Edmonton, Alberta
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    I re-read this thread and my head is spinning again. Is there any LSD's that will fit my 07 RS and keep the female splines so that i can re-use my CV's with only 30k on them and avoid all the hassle? I was originally going to go with an OBX, but I'm not sure its worth the trouble, or even all that cheaper in the end compared to a proper LSD.

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