Bob and Mike's 818Se Build Thread

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Not trying to downplay 218, because it's really fast. But, to put it in perspective, my fifteen year old Hayabusa could do 196 straight out of the showroom. A $3500 turbo kit later and you have 220.

In the early 2000's when I used to be into this stuff, Lee Shierts did 250 at Maxton, which is only a mile long with limited shutdown room. A streetable bike did 272 last year. The crazy part about Maxton is that your top speed isn't limited by power, but by brakes and craziness. You can only go so fast because the shutdown area has a turn a half mile into it.

Hi Jamie,
Gasoline is many time more dense energy storage than batteries. so catching gas with electric in land speed racing is a ways off.

Last summer our electric motorcycle with rider Carlin Dunne was the fastest up the pike peak mountain beating every gas bike the showed up. Same bike as Land speed record with different fairings and rear sprocket.
Check out this link:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/raci...-race-results/

Some people say the it was because electric doesn't loose power with altitude. But if you look at the sector times, he was also the fastest at the bottom of the mountain.
Bob

[Speedy G]

Hey Bob, this project sounds pretty amazing actually. I'm also doing an e-build. The hardest part has been designing the drivetrain out of existing parts. I'll be using dual 12,000 RPM induction motors and would like a 2 or 3 gear tranny mainly for acceleration. I've looked at the market but there isn't really anything that works out of the box. My latest iteration uses a 1.5:1 belt drive reducer to a shorty powerglide (2.18:1) then to a ford 8.8 IRS with a 4.88:1 ratio and an LSD. What I would like though is a motor to each rear wheel and a shiftable gear box from 2:1 to 1:1 for each. (Differentials are useless inertia when you have electronics). Can I ask where you got your transaxle or if you built it is there a possibility of buying one from you? I'll have total of 330 ft lbs and 400hp btw and am looking for a total reduction ratio of 14:1 in first gear and 6:1 in second.

Btw if you haven't decided on how to build your motor, check out an ancient project I worked on, the Chrysler Patriot. The motor design was a 4 pole water cooled induction motor. I'd say power density was as high as the modern Tesla.

Speedy G

I can push the motor intermittently with my controller to 250 HP.
The gearbox is 98% eff so 245 WHP.

My battery peak output is 300 HP. So no need on this car for another motor.

The original plan for the second car was 4 100Hp motors on each wheel. I have the motors and batteries. A custom gearbox would have to be designed. Something like the picture.
That plan is on hold for now.
Bob

Attachment 25120Attachment 25121

[Bob_n_Cincy]

A quick update on this build thread.
My electric 818se is on hold while my son and I work on his gas version.
It has been going slow for a number of reason similar to others. (family, job, weather, vacations, other projects, ect)
On an interesting note. The other project is the electric motorcycle I am involved with got some celebrity exposure today.
jay leno.JPG

This was at a pre event to the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance this weekend.

http://ecomento.com/2014/08/14/final...ic-motorcycle/
Bob

[rtz]

It's nice that it will run 218. What's it run in the 1/4?

Are you going to let Jay borrow it for a day so he can do a show about it? https://www.youtube.com/user/JayLenosGarage

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It's nice that it will run 218. What's it run in the 1/4?

Are you going to let Jay borrow it for a day so he can do a show about it? https://www.youtube.com/user/JayLenosGarage

I have no clue what it will do in a 1/4. It is designed as a road race bike. Here is a lap Lemans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cX-_eB8nkk

Stay tuned for info on Jays Garage.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Our motorcycle was in some good company last week.
Bob

[metalmaker12]

A quick update on this build thread.
My electric 818se is on hold while my son and I work on his gas version.
It has been going slow for a number of reason similar to others. (family, job, weather, vacations, other projects, ect)
On an interesting note. The other project is the electric motorcycle I am involved with got some celebrity exposure today.
jay leno.JPG


This was at a pre event to the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance this weekend.

http://ecomento.com/2014/08/14/final...ic-motorcycle/
Bob

Very cool man!!!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

A little off topic here.
There is a movie about motorcycles coming out in November called "On Any Sunday, The Next Chapter" .
A lot of the movie is about our rider Carlin Dunne.
I am in the trailer at the 2:04 mark.
Take a look at the trailer.
Bob

[Mechie3]

I saw your face at the 2:03 mark. Pretty cool stuff.

[Frank818]

I saw your face at the 2:03 mark. Pretty cool stuff.

For a split of a second! Pause function really handy to capture the facial expression.

[Frank818]

Hey Bob, have you ever raced the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Bob, have you ever raced the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy?

Yes, 2012, But I did not attend. Rider John Burrows

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Just Released a video of our motorcycle on Jay Leno Garage





A favorite picture from back in 2010 at VIR
Richard, Jeff, daughter Steph, son Michael, and Me.
VIR2010.jpg

Bob And Mike

[Scargo]

Very nice. You've had way more than 15 minutes of fame...
I rode bikes from 13 to 36 then quit.

Question: I believe you are building the gas version first and for Auto-X? Has the car ever been run for extended periods or with the skin on? I ask because I am wondering how the rear radiator is working out? I might consider it for my race R if it's viable.
Sorry if you've covered this but I am new to following your thread.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Very nice. You've had way more than 15 minutes of fame...
I rode bikes from 13 to 36 then quit.

Question: I believe you are building the gas version first and for Auto-X? Has the car ever been run for extended periods or with the skin on? I ask because I am wondering how the rear radiator is working out? I might consider it for my race R if it's viable.
Sorry if you've covered this but I am new to following your thread.

HI Scargo,
Thanks for the comment on the bike. I have not rode bikes since I was 25 (30 years ago). This bike is a beast. Plan right now is for me to put similar technology in my second 818 and use it as my R&D platform. Battery, controller, and motor testing. Believe it or not, I have been doing electric drivetrains since the early 80's. My 818 gaser is a new experience for me.

I have zero miles with the skin on my subaru powered 818. I will have the 2 large openings in the back of the car. My experience tells me the 818 design has large low pressure zone behind the rear bumper that will be more than sufficient to suck air out of the engine bay.

The hard part is getting air into the engine bay. I do plan on a full belly pan with no cooling air from under the car. I plan on opening the small side vents with scoops and other body work. I also may go with a lower rake or no windshield to bring air into the 2 humps for racing.

Body will be on by Christmas.
Bob

[flynntuna]

NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.

[Frank818]

NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.

Exactly what I intend on doing.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.

Not being an aerodynamics engineer, I may not be qualified to say this.
NACA duct are not penalty free. Or else race cars would have many on the bottom of the car to suck out air and make down force.

[flynntuna]

Bob, you appear to be right.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/naca_duct.html

[Frank818]

Nothing is penalty free. It's a matter of compromises, everything is built for a purpose, if that purpose fits your needs, then it should be a good way to go. The NACA ducts are a low-drag design, not 0-drag, to flow air into places where it would normally not get much or any. But they provide more than the drawback, assuming you implement them properly for the right purpose. That's how I understand it.

[Wayne Presley]

The ducts on the Lotus bring air into the engine compartment with a side benefit of reducing under car pressure.

[flynntuna]

Yes they are a low drag design, but they apparently work best in a high pressure area such as hoods and the like. A low pressure area like under the car, not as efficient. It would be easier and I'm guessing get better results buy opening the side scoops like FFR did on the R's door panel.

[Frank818]

Not a bad idea, flynn, I intend to open them as much as possible anyway, but my intention on the ducts was to throw air directly on the oil pan. As long as I have some air going there, I'll feel better. From the side scoops it might be more complicated to achieve.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It's time for me to start on the body. My barn is way to cold to work there.
What if bring the hood, front bumper, fenders and headlights inside on my pool table. Then assemble it inside and then transfer it to the car.
What do you think of that procedure?
Bob

[Scargo]

What more could you do than assemble the lights and buckets into the nose? Even then, many have to trim and grind to get the three parts to play nice. I'm going through that right now and even though I am less concerned with fit and finish with my R, I am also finding that to be the case.
The hood must be trimmed to get it to sit flush to the fenders. I do not know what you can get away with in your home. My female companion would pitch a beech if I tried to do that.
If you can get help, or jig it up (like with a tripod helping you), I have found that I can do almost dust-free cutting with my awesome Ingersoll Rand air saw if I setup my shop vac hose very near the work. I am lucky. I keep my shop/garage at 60 when I'm out there. During the zero days we've had lately it's difficult to justify warming it up for a few hours work.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What more could you do than assemble the lights and buckets into the nose? Even then, many have to trim and grind to get the three parts to play nice. I'm going through that right now and even though I am less concerned with fit and finish with my R, I am also finding that to be the case.
The hood must be trimmed to get it to sit flush to the fenders. I do not know what you can get away with in your home. My female companion would pitch a beech if I tried to do that.
If you can get help, or jig it up (like with a tripod helping you), I have found that I can do almost dust-free cutting with my awesome Ingersoll Rand air saw if I setup my shop vac hose very near the work. I am lucky. I keep my shop/garage at 60 when I'm out there. During the zero days we've had lately it's difficult to justify warming it up for a few hours work.

Thanks for your response Scargo.
The whole idea would be to get all the parts "to play nice" together. Getting all edges trimmed and headlight buckets cut up.
Any cutting or sanding, I would take outside because of the dust.
Then just final assembly on the car.
I'm in the same situation with my barn temperature.
Bob