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Thread: Bob and Mike's 818Se Build Thread

  1. #81
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Your motor and diff can't take that much space, with no radiator in front too you should have plenty of space. It's easier if designed electric from the outset for sure. too bad the form factors don't allow a centralized battery location. Willing to let out any more drivetrain details? Voltage, amps, controller, motor? Single speed?
    I'm exploring all battery location option. Right no I'm looking at 33% in front of forward firewall. 66% of batteries where engine is normally. If I use the radiator area I could get closer to a 50/5o weight distribution.

    The only thing I want to disclose now.
    It will be a Flux Vector AC motor controller. (my design)
    Obviously an AC motor.
    First car will be single motor. Street, Autocross, HPDE
    Second car will have more than one motor. (2 or 4) My son wants to change the chassis to an R.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-23-2013 at 07:38 AM.

  2. #82
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    sounds like one hell of a setup! I found my biggest problem with my electric reverse trike was the ungodly noise...

    all the little rocks and pebbles off the tires drove me nuts!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  3. #83
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    sounds like one hell of a setup! I found my biggest problem with my electric reverse trike was the ungodly noise...

    all the little rocks and pebbles off the tires drove me nuts!
    I never really thought about that, I'll have to do some sound deadening to the wheel wells.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Bob,

    Can you disclose more technical info on the 1st setup and future goal you want to reach?

    For example, you expect the 28kw motor to produce how much hp and tq, what expected performances (0-60 time, top speed, other), how long to charge the batteries if you drove say 110miles out of the 120 and on what voltage (110, 400, other?), weight of the batteries with or without other hardware (or total weight of car if possible). Stuff like that.

    And then what would be your feasible goal? 4 motors AWD, 0-60 under 3.5s, 160mph top, 200+miles range and 1h charge on 110volts? If yes, I think that would be a serious option for me.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  5. #85
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Bob,

    Can you disclose more technical info on the 1st setup and future goal you want to reach?

    For example, you expect the 28kw motor to produce how much hp and tq, what expected performances (0-60 time, top speed, other), how long to charge the batteries if you drove say 110miles out of the 120 and on what voltage (110, 400, other?), weight of the batteries with or without other hardware (or total weight of car if possible). Stuff like that.

    And then what would be your feasible goal? 4 motors AWD, 0-60 under 3.5s, 160mph top, 200+miles range and 1h charge on 110volts? If yes, I think that would be a serious option for me.
    Hi Frank
    I am not ready to disclose any more details than I have already as I have a number of different components to choose from. I am constantly evaluating between weight, power, size, range and cost to come up with the best package. The same as you would do with a gas engine.

    I did not say I had a 28kw motor. I have a goal of a 28kwh battery pack. According to the MPGe standard, 33.7 kilowatt hours of electricity is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline. Good thing my electric system is much more efficient than an internal combustion engine.

    The EVDL (electric vehicle discussion list is loaded with info on this) Here is a link to my first EV about 15 years ago. http://www.evalbum.com/377 and another http://www.evalbum.com/3507

    Now, Back to installing my ABS. BUILD TIP. DO NOT USE A CHEAP DOUBLE BAR FLARE TOOL.

  6. #86
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Hi Frank


    Now, Back to installing my ABS. BUILD TIP. DO NOT USE A CHEAP DOUBLE BAR FLARE TOOL.
    No kidding! wasted a bunch of my time using one of those too!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  7. #87
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    No kidding! wasted a bunch of my time using one of those too!
    http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=238197_0_0_

    This one is working much better.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-23-2013 at 11:00 AM.

  8. #88
    Senior Member DodgyTim's Avatar
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    I have an Eastwood, maybe a bit more than you'd want to spend for one project, but amazing quality flares in seconds
    http://www.eastwood.com/professional...ring-tool.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AlRwAI7OTqY

  9. #89
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-23-2013 at 11:42 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  10. #90
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Tim, that Eastwood tool looks amazing. Thanks for the link!


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  11. #91
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?
    Re-using tubing would be a pain. But possible.
    FFR supplies tubing and adaptors for brakes with a front proportioning valve (sae fittings).

    But I am using the ABS, so I have a lot of custom lengths needed.
    I used the FFR tubing but used my donors fittings so I didn't need the adaptors.

    Tip: If your buying any fittings to go into the donors stuff. Us M10-1 inverted flare (Japanese) . The M10-1 bubble flare is for European.
    bob

  12. #92
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=238197_0_0_

    This one is working much better.
    Bob
    Thanks for the link. I took a gamble and got a $10 ebay one, but it only does single flares. I figured for $10 it was worth the gamble if I lost (which I did).

    Quote Originally Posted by DodgyTim View Post
    I have an Eastwood, maybe a bit more than you'd want to spend for one project, but amazing quality flares in seconds
    http://www.eastwood.com/professional...ring-tool.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=AlRwAI7OTqY
    I've been eyeing that and saying "I really sholdn't buy this.....I really shouldn't buy this.....but it's so cool.....but I really shouldn't buy that".

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Do we really need that tool or can we re-use the OEM tubing from the donor?
    I saved all my stuff and once I got the kit I folded it up and stuffed it into the scrap metal recycle box. It's be a huge pain with all of the funky custom lengths and bends in the OEM stuff.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
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    www.zerodecibelmotorsports.com
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  13. #93
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Ready for Glider test this weekend

    Ready for Glider test this weekend (one of my milestones)
    Braking system functional with no leaks(no abs yet)
    Emergency brake functional.
    steering complete(except for some spacers)
    Front suspension complete and aligned.
    rear suspension complete and aligned.
    temporary seat installed.
    ride height set to 5" because springs won't let me go lower with this light load.
    R888 225-45-16 tires all around
    16" 6.5" 55 offset stock rims.
    stock 06 NA brakes
    seat belts temporarily installed


    P1040648s.jpg

    P1040649s.jpg

    P1040651s.jpg

    P1040653s.jpg

    I'll let you know how it goes.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-27-2013 at 07:33 AM.

  14. #94
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Nice. I'm missing enough parts (my fault not FFR) so can't quite put wheels on yet.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
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  15. #95
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    818 Glider Weight

    I weighed my 818 in the condition as my post 93 above.

    Front axle = 446 lbs
    rear axle = 394 lbs
    total glider weight 840 lbs or 382 Kg

    Does anyone have the weight of a complete engine with 5MT?
    Bob

  16. #96
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    What are the specs on your AC motor? Are you going to sell your custom controller?

    Have you thought about going for the government incentive for EVs? I think it is only for "new" cars, but what is a new kit car?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...#United_States

  17. #97
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspice View Post
    What are the specs on your AC motor? Are you going to sell your custom controller?

    Have you thought about going for the government incentive for EVs? I think it is only for "new" cars, but what is a new kit car?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...#United_States
    I'm looking for performance equal to WRX version of the 818 on the second car. We will see soon If I'm able to meet that performance goal.
    No answer on your other question at this time.
    I have no clue on the government incentives. I just build things and let others worry about the money and politics.
    Bob

  18. #98
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    EV has to be production for subsidies
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  19. #99
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Glider videos

    I know glider is not go kart mode. (Erik had his car 2 months before me)
    But I did drive my 818 down the road today.
    See videos:



    Everything went great.
    Steering, braking, and smoothness. I could not get the slightest bark out of the tire with aggressive steering at 35-40 mph.

    The car was more aerodynamically challenged then I thought.
    I was expecting it to be able to maintain momentum to go back up some rolling hills. But the drag to weight ratio was just to high.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-28-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  20. #100
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    tow to hill video

    Michael driving

  21. #101
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Those vids are of a great quality, keep posting.

    So what you're saying is that you're lacking power?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  22. #102
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Red face Glider Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    So what you're saying is that you're lacking power?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_glider
    Since the definition of a glider is a vehicle without a powertrain. I guess you could say I'm lacking power.
    Bob

  23. #103
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    work on axles day

    Today investigated what I had as far as axle go.
    P1040658s.jpg

    The top axle is the rear out of my 2006 NA wagon donor.
    Second axle is the front out of my 2006 NA wagon donor.
    The bottom 3 are FFR axles.

    The right side of the top rear axle must match the right side of the FFR axles.
    The left side of the second front axle must match the left of the ffr axles.

    The 3 leg tripod fits all the important splines. 29 spline about 23.5 to 24.0 mm OD.
    All is good.
    Bob

  24. #104
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_glider
    Since the definition of a glider is a vehicle without a powertrain. I guess you could say I'm lacking power.
    Bob
    Sorry, I didn't know that. First time I hear about glider, sorry.
    Never built a car from scratch before.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  25. #105
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Bob, I've seen over a hundred go-kart videos, mostly roadsters, but never a Glider! And, certainly not on a public road. I cringe at what you have started and imagine someone in Colorado Springs will try to top you with a Glider down Pikes Peak. OMG
    Pete
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  26. #106
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZPete View Post
    Bob, I've seen over a hundred go-kart videos, mostly roadsters, but never a Glider! And, certainly not on a public road. I cringe at what you have started and imagine someone in Colorado Springs will try to top you with a Glider down Pikes Peak. OMG
    Pete
    Mike and I had a great week a pike peak this year winning the motorcycle hill climb with our rider Carlin Dunn.
    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...est-62290.html
    I'm sure people on bicycles race down the hill. I would love to have my second 818 ready for next summers race. I would have to get a good driver to make the run.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 09-30-2013 at 12:06 AM.

  27. #107
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    wheel fitment

    Put the body on to look how the wheels fit.
    The tires are 225/45-16 (9" wide 23.8 tall) on donor 16 x 6.5 with 55 offset rims. wheel are spaced out 10mm over stock. My ride height is at 5"
    P1040661s.jpg
    P1040667s.jpg
    P1040668s.jpg

    The fronts had 2.5" fore and aft and about 1.5 above.
    The tire is flush with the side of the car.

    The rear wheels have 2.5" fore, aft, and above.
    The tire is inset 3/4"

    I like the front flush with my 9" tires but will go up to a 8" wide rim.
    In the rears I'm going to go with 1" wider tires on 8" wide rims.
    The 255/50R16 in back is almost 26" in diameter. So it will fill the wheel well better.
    Do you agree?
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  28. #108
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Blank slate

    I thought someone might want a blank slate to color in the back of the car.
    Bob

    P1040673s.jpg

  29. #109
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I'm glad I went with my 26 inch tall 225-55-16 in the rear...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  30. #110
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Steering wheel position

    Steering wheel position
    Is there an easy way to move the steering wheel closer to the dash?
    Bob

  31. #111
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I don't think there is. Its not a collapsible column. Only way is to make a shortened joint between that and the rack.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
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  32. #112
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    Wayne Presley's Avatar
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    Yes there is, use an flat aftermarket steering wheel with a short adapter.
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
    Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos

  33. #113
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    Should have specified there isn't an easy way to move the stock wheel.
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  34. #114
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    thin quick release SW hub

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    Yes there is, use an flat aftermarket steering wheel with a short adapter.

    Does anybody make a short adaptor and quick release in one module? Everything I'm finding, you have to stack them. So the wheel ends up in the same place.

  35. #115
    Senior Member VD2021's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Does anybody make a short adaptor and quick release in one module? Everything I'm finding, you have to stack them. So the wheel ends up in the same place.
    https://www.getnrg.com/products/quic...n-version/feed

    I have one on my GTM. Makes the driver's side entry and exit almost as easy as the passenger side.
    R/s
    Vidal
    CURRENT STATUS: Interior Rework and Bodywork.
    GenII GTM #331. Delivered (23/9/10)
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  36. #116
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VD2021 View Post
    https://www.getnrg.com/products/quic...n-version/feed

    I have one on my GTM. Makes the driver's side entry and exit almost as easy as the passenger side.
    Do you still need a hub to go from this quick release to the steering shaft?

  37. #117
    Senior Member VD2021's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Do you still need a hub to go from this quick release to the steering shaft?
    Unfortunately yes. The thin quick release will be an additional item mounted between the hub adapter and steering wheel. So it will actually bring the steering wheel aft ~1".
    R/s
    Vidal
    CURRENT STATUS: Interior Rework and Bodywork.
    GenII GTM #331. Delivered (23/9/10)
    BUILD LOG AND WEBSITE:
    http://gtmbuild.weebly.com/ .

  38. #118
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Michael driving
    Now I have seen everything

  39. #119
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    Now I have seen everything
    We did 3 runs down the hill hitting 35 mph. Maybe 40 mph getting towed back up each time.
    When I was a kid, we nailed some lawnmower wheels to some wood and called them jitneys.
    My wife accuses me of being a big kid now. I can't argue with that.
    Bob

  40. #120
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    There's a song by Yellowcard that goes "they say 'you don't grow up, you just grow old', it's safe to say I haven't done both".
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
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