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Thread: Bob and Mike's 818Se Build Thread

  1. #201
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaime View Post
    Not trying to downplay 218, because it's really fast. But, to put it in perspective, my fifteen year old Hayabusa could do 196 straight out of the showroom. A $3500 turbo kit later and you have 220.

    In the early 2000's when I used to be into this stuff, Lee Shierts did 250 at Maxton, which is only a mile long with limited shutdown room. A streetable bike did 272 last year. The crazy part about Maxton is that your top speed isn't limited by power, but by brakes and craziness. You can only go so fast because the shutdown area has a turn a half mile into it.
    Hi Jamie,
    Gasoline is many time more dense energy storage than batteries. so catching gas with electric in land speed racing is a ways off.

    Last summer our electric motorcycle with rider Carlin Dunne was the fastest up the pike peak mountain beating every gas bike the showed up. Same bike as Land speed record with different fairings and rear sprocket.
    Check out this link:
    http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/raci...-race-results/

    Some people say the it was because electric doesn't loose power with altitude. But if you look at the sector times, he was also the fastest at the bottom of the mountain.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 06-08-2014 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #202
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    Hey Bob, this project sounds pretty amazing actually. I'm also doing an e-build. The hardest part has been designing the drivetrain out of existing parts. I'll be using dual 12,000 RPM induction motors and would like a 2 or 3 gear tranny mainly for acceleration. I've looked at the market but there isn't really anything that works out of the box. My latest iteration uses a 1.5:1 belt drive reducer to a shorty powerglide (2.18:1) then to a ford 8.8 IRS with a 4.88:1 ratio and an LSD. What I would like though is a motor to each rear wheel and a shiftable gear box from 2:1 to 1:1 for each. (Differentials are useless inertia when you have electronics). Can I ask where you got your transaxle or if you built it is there a possibility of buying one from you? I'll have total of 330 ft lbs and 400hp btw and am looking for a total reduction ratio of 14:1 in first gear and 6:1 in second.

    Btw if you haven't decided on how to build your motor, check out an ancient project I worked on, the Chrysler Patriot. The motor design was a 4 pole water cooled induction motor. I'd say power density was as high as the modern Tesla.

    Speedy G

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    I can push the motor intermittently with my controller to 250 HP.
    The gearbox is 98% eff so 245 WHP.

    My battery peak output is 300 HP. So no need on this car for another motor.

    The original plan for the second car was 4 100Hp motors on each wheel. I have the motors and batteries. A custom gearbox would have to be designed. Something like the picture.
    That plan is on hold for now.
    Bob

    Attachment 25120Attachment 25121

  3. #203
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    A quick update on this build thread.
    My electric 818se is on hold while my son and I work on his gas version.
    It has been going slow for a number of reason similar to others. (family, job, weather, vacations, other projects, ect)
    On an interesting note. The other project is the electric motorcycle I am involved with got some celebrity exposure today.
    jay leno.JPG

    This was at a pre event to the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance this weekend.

    http://ecomento.com/2014/08/14/final...ic-motorcycle/
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-15-2014 at 12:54 AM.

  4. #204
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    It's nice that it will run 218. What's it run in the 1/4?

    Are you going to let Jay borrow it for a day so he can do a show about it? https://www.youtube.com/user/JayLenosGarage

  5. #205
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtz View Post
    It's nice that it will run 218. What's it run in the 1/4?

    Are you going to let Jay borrow it for a day so he can do a show about it? https://www.youtube.com/user/JayLenosGarage
    I have no clue what it will do in a 1/4. It is designed as a road race bike. Here is a lap Lemans.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cX-_eB8nkk

    Stay tuned for info on Jays Garage.
    Bob

  6. #206
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Our motorcycle was in some good company last week.
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #207
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    A quick update on this build thread.
    My electric 818se is on hold while my son and I work on his gas version.
    It has been going slow for a number of reason similar to others. (family, job, weather, vacations, other projects, ect)
    On an interesting note. The other project is the electric motorcycle I am involved with got some celebrity exposure today.
    jay leno.JPG


    This was at a pre event to the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance this weekend.

    http://ecomento.com/2014/08/14/final...ic-motorcycle/
    Bob

    Very cool man!!!!
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  8. #208
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    On Any Sunday, The Next Chapter - Official Trailer

    A little off topic here.
    There is a movie about motorcycles coming out in November called "On Any Sunday, The Next Chapter" .
    A lot of the movie is about our rider Carlin Dunne.
    I am in the trailer at the 2:04 mark.
    Take a look at the trailer.
    Bob

    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  9. #209
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I saw your face at the 2:03 mark. Pretty cool stuff.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
    Check out my new website!
    www.zerodecibelmotorsports.com
    www.facebook.com/zero.decibel.motorsports

  10. #210
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
    I saw your face at the 2:03 mark. Pretty cool stuff.
    For a split of a second! Pause function really handy to capture the facial expression.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  11. #211
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Hey Bob, have you ever raced the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  12. #212
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Hey Bob, have you ever raced the Isle of Man Tourist Trophy?
    Yes, 2012, But I did not attend. Rider John Burrows

    Attached Images Attached Images
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  13. #213
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Just Released a video of our motorcycle on Jay Leno Garage

    Just Released a video of our motorcycle on Jay Leno Garage





    A favorite picture from back in 2010 at VIR
    Richard, Jeff, daughter Steph, son Michael, and Me.
    VIR2010.jpg

    Bob And Mike
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  14. #214
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    Very nice. You've had way more than 15 minutes of fame...
    I rode bikes from 13 to 36 then quit.

    Question: I believe you are building the gas version first and for Auto-X? Has the car ever been run for extended periods or with the skin on? I ask because I am wondering how the rear radiator is working out? I might consider it for my race R if it's viable.
    Sorry if you've covered this but I am new to following your thread.
    Last edited by Scargo; 11-18-2014 at 05:50 AM.

  15. #215
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    Very nice. You've had way more than 15 minutes of fame...
    I rode bikes from 13 to 36 then quit.

    Question: I believe you are building the gas version first and for Auto-X? Has the car ever been run for extended periods or with the skin on? I ask because I am wondering how the rear radiator is working out? I might consider it for my race R if it's viable.
    Sorry if you've covered this but I am new to following your thread.
    HI Scargo,
    Thanks for the comment on the bike. I have not rode bikes since I was 25 (30 years ago). This bike is a beast. Plan right now is for me to put similar technology in my second 818 and use it as my R&D platform. Battery, controller, and motor testing. Believe it or not, I have been doing electric drivetrains since the early 80's. My 818 gaser is a new experience for me.

    I have zero miles with the skin on my subaru powered 818. I will have the 2 large openings in the back of the car. My experience tells me the 818 design has large low pressure zone behind the rear bumper that will be more than sufficient to suck air out of the engine bay.

    The hard part is getting air into the engine bay. I do plan on a full belly pan with no cooling air from under the car. I plan on opening the small side vents with scoops and other body work. I also may go with a lower rake or no windshield to bring air into the 2 humps for racing.

    Body will be on by Christmas.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  16. #216
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #217
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.
    Exactly what I intend on doing.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #218
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    NACA ducts in the belly pan have been done.
    Not being an aerodynamics engineer, I may not be qualified to say this.
    NACA duct are not penalty free. Or else race cars would have many on the bottom of the car to suck out air and make down force.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  19. #219
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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  20. #220
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Nothing is penalty free. It's a matter of compromises, everything is built for a purpose, if that purpose fits your needs, then it should be a good way to go. The NACA ducts are a low-drag design, not 0-drag, to flow air into places where it would normally not get much or any. But they provide more than the drawback, assuming you implement them properly for the right purpose. That's how I understand it.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #221
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    The ducts on the Lotus bring air into the engine compartment with a side benefit of reducing under car pressure.
    Wayne Presley www.verycoolparts.com
    Xterminator 705 RWHP supercharged 4.6 DOHC with twin turbos

  22. #222
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Yes they are a low drag design, but they apparently work best in a high pressure area such as hoods and the like. A low pressure area like under the car, not as efficient. It would be easier and I'm guessing get better results buy opening the side scoops like FFR did on the R's door panel.
    Last edited by flynntuna; 11-18-2014 at 08:56 PM.

  23. #223
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Not a bad idea, flynn, I intend to open them as much as possible anyway, but my intention on the ducts was to throw air directly on the oil pan. As long as I have some air going there, I'll feel better. From the side scoops it might be more complicated to achieve.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #224
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    It's time for me to start on the body. My barn is way to cold to work there.
    What if bring the hood, front bumper, fenders and headlights inside on my pool table. Then assemble it inside and then transfer it to the car.
    What do you think of that procedure?
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  25. #225
    Tazio Nuvolari wannabe Scargo's Avatar
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    What more could you do than assemble the lights and buckets into the nose? Even then, many have to trim and grind to get the three parts to play nice. I'm going through that right now and even though I am less concerned with fit and finish with my R, I am also finding that to be the case.
    The hood must be trimmed to get it to sit flush to the fenders. I do not know what you can get away with in your home. My female companion would pitch a beech if I tried to do that.
    If you can get help, or jig it up (like with a tripod helping you), I have found that I can do almost dust-free cutting with my awesome Ingersoll Rand air saw if I setup my shop vac hose very near the work. I am lucky. I keep my shop/garage at 60 when I'm out there. During the zero days we've had lately it's difficult to justify warming it up for a few hours work.

  26. #226
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scargo View Post
    What more could you do than assemble the lights and buckets into the nose? Even then, many have to trim and grind to get the three parts to play nice. I'm going through that right now and even though I am less concerned with fit and finish with my R, I am also finding that to be the case.
    The hood must be trimmed to get it to sit flush to the fenders. I do not know what you can get away with in your home. My female companion would pitch a beech if I tried to do that.
    If you can get help, or jig it up (like with a tripod helping you), I have found that I can do almost dust-free cutting with my awesome Ingersoll Rand air saw if I setup my shop vac hose very near the work. I am lucky. I keep my shop/garage at 60 when I'm out there. During the zero days we've had lately it's difficult to justify warming it up for a few hours work.
    Thanks for your response Scargo.
    The whole idea would be to get all the parts "to play nice" together. Getting all edges trimmed and headlight buckets cut up.
    Any cutting or sanding, I would take outside because of the dust.
    Then just final assembly on the car.
    I'm in the same situation with my barn temperature.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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