Honolulu 818S Hana (work/build) Thread

[metalmaker12]

i've had the opposite results myself. we'll agree to disagree.

It's all good, but I will test it some more, since you feel the opposite, I have both resins on hand so I can play with them

[carbon fiber]

sorry if i was testy with my response, i was in a bad mood when i got on here, didn't mean to sound so sharp in my response. the experience i've had with it was bad. it didn't show up right away either, after time though, it partially delaminated. it was properly prepped but was under extreme loads and didn't hold up. (repairs on a fiberglass bucket on a bucket truck for a friend of mine) it may have been the types of resins. it suprised me though, as i'd heard as long as the vinyl ester is fully cured, it's not a problem. even on US Composites website and other forums there is conflicting opinions about the subject. i'm just going on experience. it may also not have been a problem with something that wasn't under as much stress. epoxy does bond stronger than vinyl ester there's no doubt, but there's also chemicals in the vinyl ester that can cause the epoxy to not bond properly. (usually when it's still curing) either way it's just cheap insurance to me after the problems i've had.

[Goldwing]

Bonding anything over epoxy, you do have to clean off the amine blush. It's a waxy coating that develops on top to assist in the curing process. I believe that's why bonding to partially cured epoxy gives problems with other resins. I'll look into the chemical bonds between the resin types, but mechanical bonds should be decent on the back sides of the body pieces anyway with the rough texture. I like working with epoxy over poly resin due to the smell. Haven't worked with vinyl ester before though. I have some learning to do.

[Aloha818]

It's all good, but I will test it some more, since you feel the opposite, I have both resins on hand so I can play with them

sorry if i was testy with my response, i was in a bad mood when i got on here, didn't mean to sound so sharp in my response. the experience i've had with it was bad. it didn't show up right away either, after time though, it partially delaminated. it was properly prepped but was under extreme loads and didn't hold up. (repairs on a fiberglass bucket on a bucket truck for a friend of mine) it may have been the types of resins. it suprised me though, as i'd heard as long as the vinyl ester is fully cured, it's not a problem. even on US Composites website and other forums there is conflicting opinions about the subject. i'm just going on experience. it may also not have been a problem with something that wasn't under as much stress. epoxy does bond stronger than vinyl ester there's no doubt, but there's also chemicals in the vinyl ester that can cause the epoxy to not bond properly. (usually when it's still curing) either way it's just cheap insurance to me after the problems i've had.

Bonding anything over epoxy, you do have to clean off the amine blush. It's a waxy coating that develops on top to assist in the curing process. I believe that's why bonding to partially cured epoxy gives problems with other resins. I'll look into the chemical bonds between the resin types, but mechanical bonds should be decent on the back sides of the body pieces anyway with the rough texture. I like working with epoxy over poly resin due to the smell. Haven't worked with vinyl ester before though. I have some learning to do.

Thanks guys for commenting and expressing your views. We are all (mostly) learning here and all want the best results we can achieve and I believe to help our fellow builders.

FYI, the closest I've been to working with fiberglass is on my sons and I project '77 Vette. It only had a 1" long crack/blemish that repaired before starting the painting process. So realize I basically know nothing about fiberglass repair.

Today I went to Fiberglass Hawaii, they seem to know what they are doing and have a pretty large operation and were very busy. Car guys, boat guys, and surfers all in line buying and asking questions. Dutch the Operations Manager assisted me. So here is what I bought
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And to get an idea of cost here is the list
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As you can see I purchased vinyl ester resin. This is not readily sold on the counter, he filled a gallon container for me from the warehouse (smallest amount they would sell). He said I would have been fine with using polyester based resin (at less cost), but that the vinyl ester does have some corrosive resistant properties. I told him I wasn't really concerned about the extra cost, that I wanted to make sure I didn't have a problem showing up in the paint a year to two from now.

He told me that for patches to lay up 4-5 layers of the mat, about 45-60 mins apart to get to the same thickness as the FFR body parts. Clean everything with Acetone.

I am going to cut out the vent area of the trunk lid and replace with flat fiberglass, so he sold me some Mylar sheeting to use as a "form" as the resin will not stick to it.

I will also be adding some layers of fiberglass in a few areas to strengthen. I will post pics as I get into it.

So please comment as you see fit so we can all learn, thanks in advance.

[Goldwing]

Looking around there seems to be a consensus to match the types of resins used. It also seemed generally ok to use polyester resin over vinyl ester resin, but most emphasized a need to scuff the area up. I read that as the chemical bond is weaker, so make sure to roughen the area up to give the new material some extra bite in a mechanical bond. So, doable, with care. Gel coats and epoxies seemed to be incompatible. And finally epoxy on top needs protection from UV, or it breaks down. Treat epoxy like POR-15, protect it from the sun.

It really does sound more ideal to use vinyl ester like you're doing. While you're working, give the fiberglass cloth time to soak up the resin, then squeegee out the excess for lighter lay ups. A medium pressure so as not to turn the cloth back to white, keep it clear. It is far stronger and lighter to have a more layers of fiberglass with minimal resin, than to leave extra resin in place with fewer layers. Use wide shallow dishes when mixing the resin too. Allowing it to pool in a dish, it will "kick" fast, start to gel and harden, and overheat. Possibly melting the pot you used.

Looking forward to your results.

[metalmaker12]

I have both west system epoxy and a vinyl ester resin and I have had great success with both. With both ( more so the vinyl ester) proper sanding/ scuff prep is very important. I been using the ester for the holes and cracks since it dries faster and is more primer compatable. But for strengthening and glueing in studs I have been using the epoxy with cloth, seems to hold up great. I have been fairing out ( sikm costs with fiberglass body filler and iceing which seem to work well

[Aloha818]

Looking around there seems to be a consensus to match the types of resins used. It also seemed generally ok to use polyester resin over vinyl ester resin, but most emphasized a need to scuff the area up. I read that as the chemical bond is weaker, so make sure to roughen the area up to give the new material some extra bite in a mechanical bond. So, doable, with care. Gel coats and epoxies seemed to be incompatible. And finally epoxy on top needs protection from UV, or it breaks down. Treat epoxy like POR-15, protect it from the sun.

It really does sound more ideal to use vinyl ester like you're doing. While you're working, give the fiberglass cloth time to soak up the resin, then squeegee out the excess for lighter lay ups. A medium pressure so as not to turn the cloth back to white, keep it clear. It is far stronger and lighter to have a more layers of fiberglass with minimal resin, than to leave extra resin in place with fewer layers. Use wide shallow dishes when mixing the resin too. Allowing it to pool in a dish, it will "kick" fast, start to gel and harden, and overheat. Possibly melting the pot you used.

Looking forward to your results.

I have both west system epoxy and a vinyl ester resin and I have had great success with both. With both ( more so the vinyl ester) proper sanding/ scuff prep is very important. I been using the ester for the holes and cracks since it dries faster and is more primer compatable. But for strengthening and glueing in studs I have been using the epoxy with cloth, seems to hold up great. I have been fairing out ( sikm costs with fiberglass body filler and iceing which seem to work well

Thanks guys for commenting!

I have watched a few Utube videos and read the info the supplier gave me. Yes, rough up area and make sure everything is clean. I'll be on this in about a week or so, working now on the final pattern for the new roll bar hoops. New hoops are the same height as the factory and hit the same bracing locations. The angle of the pics make it look crooked but it's not. Tried to match the shape of the seat.
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Installing the intercooler lines, pump and radiator now, then a couple more wiring connects, new push button shifter and I'm ready for a test drive.

[wallace18]

Nice job. Gives a clean look.

[Canadian818]

Great work! Looking forward to your fibreglass work, I'm a complete newb to it.

[Aloha818]

Nice job. Gives a clean look.

Great work! Looking forward to your fibreglass work, I'm a complete newb to it.

Thanks guys!

This is just the template for the hoops. I wanted to make sure it looked the way I wanted, I started with cardboard but too hard to visualize. The real ones will be better, but made to this size.

[Aloha818]

After fitting the hoop I jumped on mounting the intercooler radiator. I also purchased this from frozenboost, it holds about 32 oz of water and is rated for +600 HP. I fabbed up an upper and lower steel bracket. There is 4 1/2" between the two and at the same angle. Don't know if this is right or wrong. But it seems like by keeping it on the same angle as the radiator that the airflow would have one less turn.
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I will also paint it black.

[wleehendrick]

I like the hoops... but without a cross-bar, where do you mount a GoPro?

[WIS89]

Your work is still looking terrific!!

I have been following along, and have enjoyed watching your progress. You have been sailing along with the build!

I look forward to seeing how you finish things up. I hope it has been as fun as it seems to be (most of the time ;-o) )!

Regards,

Steve

[Aloha818]

I like the hoops... but without a cross-bar, where do you mount a GoPro?

Thanks for the compliment!

I have an iPhone and they have an app called Vidometer. It's pretty good, works like a go pro (but without having to spend any money, app is free). The app records speed, G forces, elevation and angle. You can buy a case called Hitcase that has different mounts. I'm probably going to get just a regular dash mount and use.

[Aloha818]

Your work is still looking terrific!!

I have been following along, and have enjoyed watching your progress. You have been sailing along with the build!

I look forward to seeing how you finish things up. I hope it has been as fun as it seems to be (most of the time ;-o) )!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks for the positive comments! I don't feel like I'm sailing along though, keep getting sidetracked by making different changes.

Even when I'm frustrated I'm still having fun. This 818 kit is a perfect canvas to build from. When building a typical project car, '60's Mustang, Camaro, Corvette, etc, no matter which direction you go, stock, restomod, etc, you will always have plenty of critics. So far the FFR community has been positive no matter what direction the builder goes. Electric, 6 cyl, 4 cyl w/no turbo, race, street, bare bones, exotic, paint, no paint, etc. and since it is so new there really is no "right way".

[ehansen007]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.

[Scargo]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.

PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

[Aloha818]

Love those hoops. Thats the one thing i regret not doing on my build. Well that and not robbing a bank to pay for it.

Thanks for the comments. Yes, to me looks better, the final version will look much better, the one in the pic is just the mock up.

PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

Thanks for commenting.

I bought the S version as I don't plan on racing. I'm more concerned with looks than safety. The odds that I'm going to get hurt more with hoops than the original bar is probably zero. On the days when I'm worried about safety I can drive my nanny Mercedes with all it's air bags, sensors and controls!

Maybe hard to tell in the pics, but both rear and both side to side FFR braces are still there.

[Canadian818]

PM me. Always wanted to rob a bank and delivery of my kit is coming up soon.

Hula Guy: Covered here in the 818 forums, it talks about the main hoop being one piece and that if it is not "stock" you might not be allowed to run in even HPDE if it's not up to snuff. Not sure how you can do it but I agree that you need a rear brace for each hoop.

Define "stock", it's a homemade car.

[Aloha818]

I took another pic of my hoop/tool bar modification mock-up. This pic shows the bracing points
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We don't have any tracks here in Honolulu to run this on if I wanted too. There is a SCCA racing event in the parking lot of Aloha Stadium, you against the clock. I will still qualify for that I understand. So my mod might not be for everyone. Instead I'll be navigating around pedestrians, bicyclists, mopeds, motorcycles (all of which have no roll bars at all!) and cars, not too many 18 wheelers here either!

I understand we do have underground racing on a section of interstate here every Sunday night after midnight, that might be fun!

[RM1SepEx]

I believe you have autocross there too and the 818 will be an absolute blast

[Aloha818]

The intercooler radiator, piping, pump, and filler are now installed and connected, less wiring. I used the Cobra style Bosch pump and 5/8" silicone hose. The filler cap is aligned/mirrored with my main radiator fill location, both slightly higher than the rest of the systems. The pump is located just behind the drivers seat 1/4" aluminum panel. Close to the lowest elevation possible. I ran both the supply and return lines through the drivers side sail.

I also made some tabs and mounted the Hella horns

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[Aloha818]

Previously I had mentioned that the PCS push button shifter had arrived. So today I started the install. I mounted the actuator on the drivers side frame beside the trans. The shifter is cable is 5' long, so you can mount it about anywhere.

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I had to marry the PCS shifter linkage connection with the Subaru lever, worked out like factory. The PCS shifter linkage looks like it has about 2" of run length, the Subaru linkage connection point needs about 1 7/8" of run length, so it should work as I have connected. only issue is that it looks like the PCS setup puts Park at farthest extension, Park is closest extension on the Subaru. I'm hoping that since you have to "teach" the PCS computer the shift points, that it can "learn" the Subaru way.

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On jack stands with the engine running I have manually went through all the gears and topped of the trans fluid and verified operation.

So tomorrow I'm back to wiring. I have all the lights, extra gauge sensors, transmission control, horns, and intercooler pump mounted. Now to finish electrically.

[Wayne Presley]

How many hours do you think you have invested in wiring the car with the stock harness?

[Kalstar]

Just read ever word of your thread. Very impressive and I love the dual hoops.

[Aloha818]

How many hours do you think you have invested in wiring the car with the stock harness?

That's a good question! My guess would be about 48 hours so far, and probably a good 8 hours left to go. When I was working on the harness earlier I left the wire long at the front and back for the lights and horn until the body was mounted, so that's left. I have added 5 extra gauges (6 actually since one displays both left and right side exhaust temps) all the sensors are installed, so that wiring is needed, the PCS push button shifter harness needs to be integrated, and then the stereo and speakers. So maybe more than 8 hours to go!

[Aloha818]

Just read ever word of your thread. Very impressive and I love the dual hoops.

Thanks for the positive comments! I'm having a good time and looking forward to a test drive here in a few more days.

[Aloha818]

When I installed and dieted the harness I left the leads long in the area of the lighting until after I mounted the body and actually cut in the lighting fixtures. Since the body is mostly fitted I had to go back to the wiring, not as much fun.

I was able to spend about a half day Saturday and 2 hours today and was able to complete almost all the lighting, horns, and radiator fans.

The FFR manual is very non-specific in its instructions. It basically tells you to test the power/ground leads to the pigtail with the bulb in it to figure out what termination is correct. I guess it could be that different years have different wiring. It also takes some time to figure out what FFR sent, where it goes and what you use from the donor. I had already realized that the headlight connector on my donor was different that 2002-2006 year so I had already bought a pair of headlight harnesses to get the right connector. I also had to pick up a pair of 9005 bulbs since those are required from the donor.

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I'm not sure what others have done to organize the wire looms around to the rear lights. I guess I may be anal but I like everything organized and put where it makes sense and would be serviceable. Since there is no structure around the back I picked up these stick-on tie wrap mounts. I didn't trust the adhesive pads sticking to the bed liner on the rough fiberglass so I used a little bit of 5min epoxy on each one. So these should be pretty permanent and if I need to get into a loom I can just cut /replace the tie wrap.

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[RM1SepEx]

can you describe and show us a good shot of your exhaust? I'm trying to develop a "database" on my exhaust thread.

[Aloha818]

can you describe and show us a good shot of your exhaust? I'm trying to develop a "database" on my exhaust thread.

Sure!

I started with a Kinugawa bell mouth I bought off eBay on the turbo, cut the outlet side up as high as I could to get the 3" SS pipe to exit as straight as possible and aiming to the center of the cutout in the bumper. There is about a 3"-4" piece of 3" SS pipe going into a SS Borla XR-1 racing muffler I bought from Summit Racing, 3" in and 3" out. Then I have a 3" round w/rolled edge, Polished SS tip from Carriage Works, also from Summit. About as straight of an exit path as you could get.

I had a steel/welding Buddy make the pretty welds. I still need him to weld in another bung and weld the tip on now that the body is fitted.

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Let me know if you need more info.

[RM1SepEx]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

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I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

[metalmaker12]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

P1110761.JPG

I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

Cut the cat ends down, but there are shorter cats. my magna flow exhaust is only. 8" and come in 3in dia. Search speedway and summit and jeggs

[metalmaker12]

Cut the cat ends down, but there are shorter cats. my magna flow exhaust is only. 8" and come in 3in dia. Search speedway and summit and jeggs

You deff have enough pipe to make the cuts and set that low enough for your trunk. I wish I lived close, I could mock it up in an hour and weld in about the same time.

[Aloha818]

That is damn straight! I "need" to get my CAT in there too... how long is that Borla? My Cat needs 10 inches, it slips over a 3 inch pipe

P1110761.JPG

I'll hack up the 3 inch bell mouth downpipe and run it down and angled to the right... Hoping I can get in a 14 inch muffler. I need to add the O2 bung between the CAT and the muffler

no muffler yet, waiting to mock up to determine how much room I have.

Your straight out is too high for my trunk plans

The body of the Borla is 15", then add about 2" on each end for the slip joint.

[longislandwrx]

Can't you tuck the rear wiring higher up under the lip?

reorient the plugs on your directionals so they face up and get the next size smaller loom and that rear wiring should disappear.


edit... just read you epoxied. nevermind :P

[Aloha818]

Can't you tuck the rear wiring higher up under the lip?

reorient the plugs on your directionals so they face up and get the next size smaller loom and that rear wiring should disappear.


edit... just read you epoxied. nevermind :P

Good point and yes I could have, except

I will be fabricating a semi-sealed trunk area in the back. I haven't started yet, but the plan is to have 3 easily removable aluminum "bins". One on each side of the transmission and then one over the transmission. The area above my wire loom and below the top of the bumper will probably be the area I install the support structure.

I am also planning on the convertible top and according to the email sent it is designed to fit in the trunk area. Waiting for size and other info from FFR before I can really start on it.

[Aloha818]

I spent most of my evenings this week tying up odd and end electrical items, vinyl wrapped my center dash, installed the new added gauges and radio, and today connected up the Push Button Shifter.

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The shifter is pretty cool. The cable only took a little engineering and bolted right up to the original shifter mount. Electrical connections were pretty easy. Teaching the unit where the detent for each gear was really easy. Still have to set the speed display to the Subaru pulse rate. Requires input from the brake pedal to shift from park, just like stock. Almost instant gear changes, way faster than you could move the stock lever.

Tomorrow, unless something comes up, I will adjust the alignment a little, perform a final safety check, and see if I can drive it around the block.

[metalmaker12]

That's pretty cool. Ah technology

[carbon fiber]

yours is cooler, but the '63 dodge had it goin' on too.628x471.jpg the auto trans is turning out pretty cool. have you any plans for paddle shifters later?

[VD2021]

Yeah, Nice upgrade. I really like the electronic shift.

Once an OEM item or technology goes well an aftermarket option will shortly follow, if it can be integrated and produced for a reasonable cost.

Waiting to see the 818 (first auto trans, right?) karting the streets of Honolulu .