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Thread: who will be the first to try putting the sti 6 speed tran in?

  1. #1
    nkw8181's Avatar
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    who will be the first to try putting the sti 6 speed tran in?

    I currently have bids on two cars. An 05 Sti and an 06 wrx. It may turn out that I end up with both. It that happens I will be "exploring" the use of as much of the sti as possible. I'm just wondering if I'm a lone ranger or if anyone else is planning the same? I'm building an 818R but making it street legal in Texas.I will get the kit next Sept (Should have ordered sooner, didn't realize the delay). I should have one or both donors as soon as auction house stops moving the dates and let's the auction go through.

    Nolan

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    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    There were a few that stated they would be making it work, but that was awhile ago. I hope someone figures it out before I spend money on a LSD for the 5spd.

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    Me too...

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    fateo666 has that in his projects or goals. Will he try? On his build thread he said that maybe he'll give a try (as well as an auto4), but his plan is to first make use of the 5sp and know how the car works/drives before he tries new stuff.

    I hope he'll read this and complement on what I just said in his back. lolll (good stuff, not bad stuff! )

    I too hope to know about the 6sp and also other sti parts like the 5x114 hubs, though there are adapters and whatnot or drilling holes, welding, etc, can't recall.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-24-2013 at 03:04 PM.
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    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    fateo666 has that in his projects or goals. Will he try? On his build thread he said that maybe he'll give a try (as well as an auto4), but his plan is to first make use of the 5sp and know how the car works/drives before he tries new stuff.

    I hope he'll read this and complement on what I just said in his back. lolll (good stuff, not bad stuff! )

    I too hope to know about the 6sp and also other sti parts like the 5x114 hubs, though there are adapters and whatnot or drilling holes, welding, etc, can't recall.

    All I can say is.....I have seen a STI 6 speed in a 818.

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Excellent news, but why is that all you can say about it? lolll
    Frank
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    All I can say is.....I have seen a STI 6 speed in a 818.
    Question is, was it a fully functional 6 speed?

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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeS13 View Post
    Question is, was it a fully functional 6 speed?
    ...with the rear bumper panel on and enough clearance inside (or a moded panel?).
    Frank
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    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    All I can say is.....I have seen a STI 6 speed in a 818.
    Me too... Living near Wareham must be nice... then again all I had to do was check facebook.

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    Senior Member fateo66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    fateo666 has that in his projects or goals. Will he try? On his build thread he said that maybe he'll give a try (as well as an auto4), but his plan is to first make use of the 5sp and know how the car works/drives before he tries new stuff.

    I hope he'll read this and complement on what I just said in his back. lolll (good stuff, not bad stuff! )

    I too hope to know about the 6sp and also other sti parts like the 5x114 hubs, though there are adapters and whatnot or drilling holes, welding, etc, can't recall.
    I do plan on trying out the 6 speed! I have one sitting on the bench just waiting for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by longislandwrx View Post
    Me too... Living near Wareham must be nice... then again all I had to do was check facebook.

    Did I miss something on FFR's FB page? I don't recall seeing anything related...

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    I was visiting FFR very recently and they were in the process of putting the STI 6-speed in an 818 and debugging the process. Tehy were making it work. You might give them some time and ask for an update; I'm sure they will be posting their experiences sooner or later.

    Bill

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    nkw8181's Avatar
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    Well I have a year to figure it out, learn from someone else or wait for FFR to come up with it :-) I will say these auctions are driving me crazy. I want to start my process already. They told me today they keep pushing the date because they are waiting on paperwork from the state.

    From what I've learned I should be able to use the hubs with the 5 or 6 speed. For the rear i will need my own axles made, just will need some measurements and the right spine count to do what the kit supplied shaft does but with the sti hubs going to a 5 or 6 speed. For the front I plan to either trim the upper part of the front to mount the existing bracket or modify the mount. The axles should run about 400 for both. The front I don't have a rough price on but shouldn't be to bad. The tranny for me is the big "unknown" especially on figuring out how to convert it to 2wd. So that is what my working theory is based on what I have learned.

    Nolan

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    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    FWD conversions already exist for the 6MT. They aren't cheap though.
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    Yes FFR has a 6 sp in the 818R now, still working out the details and sourcing the FWD conversion pieces.
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    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Presley View Post
    Yes FFR has a 6 sp in the 818R now, still working out the details and sourcing the FWD conversion pieces.
    330whp was a little too much for the 5 speed to handle under race conditions. Hopefully the 6 speed will hold up better.

  17. #17
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    yeah the converstion pieces are like a grand, but can be made by or for ffr for much cheeper so we should see a converstion kit down the road. i personal would consider it if i blow my 5 spd

  18. #18
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    330whp was a little too much for the 5 speed to handle under race conditions. Hopefully the 6 speed will hold up better.
    "too much for a Stock 5 speed to handle"
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    Senior Member Silvertop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    "too much for a Stock 5 speed to handle"
    That's a REALLY good point! Building up an existing 5-speed may be a viable (but expensive) option for builders generating high horsepower who don't necessarily want to convert to a 6-speed.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I want the 6sp for various reasons. I am glad to hear (read) that it's already in the process!
    Which makes an STI almost a full donor, depending on the year. But also if I decide not to go with an H6 or electric motors and I go with H4, I'd get a JDM 207 and there are lots that come with a 6-sp included. I can get them at 20mins from home, fit the engine/tranny bolt-on after FWD conversion of course and there you go.
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    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    People are forgetting that the 6 speed gearing is IMO ridiculously short. top of 2nd is less than 60, 3rd is about 80 and 4th is something like 100mph and even with something like 300 whp and way less weight than the sti, you will be rowing through the gears to stay in the right power band. There is a reason why cars like the newer Z06 does 90 in 2nd and 125 in 3rd...

    So if you crack open a 6spd to change the gearing any "savings" from using the 6spd instead of a built 5spd is lost, and you are still lugging around an extra ~70lbs of transmission.
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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Ha I didn't know that. The 6sp I have on my car has a tall 1st and ok/tall 2nd, which makes it a lot better to drive with a turbo. I thought Subaru would have done a similar gearing on his 6sp. Might want to change the FD then. In anyway, tnx for the info, I will have to dig more and look at it.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Gathering some info... will edit back after I get other ratios.

    STI 7 JDM 01-03MY
    1st- 3.636
    2nd- 2.375
    3rd- 1.761
    4th- 1.346
    5th- 1.062
    6th- 0.842


    WRX, UK Turbo, GT 99-02MY
    1st- 3.454
    2nd- 1.947
    3rd- 1.366
    4th- 0.972
    5th- 0.738


    Using the same rev limit and tire size

    STI 7 JDM 01-03MY
    Maximum Speed per Gear:
    1st: 36.7 mph
    2nd: 56.1 mph
    3rd: 75.7 mph
    4th: 99.1 mph
    5th: 125.5 mph
    6th: 158.4 mph

    WRX, UK Turbo, GT 99-02MY
    Maximum Speed per Gear:
    1st: 38.6 mph
    2nd: 68.5 mph
    3rd: 97.6 mph
    4th: 137.2 mph
    5th: 180.7 mph


    Ok I gotta read this: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1689781
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-25-2013 at 01:57 PM.
    Frank
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    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StatGSR View Post
    People are forgetting that the 6 speed gearing is IMO ridiculously short. top of 2nd is less than 60, 3rd is about 80 and 4th is something like 100mph and even with something like 300 whp and way less weight than the sti, you will be rowing through the gears to stay in the right power band. There is a reason why cars like the newer Z06 does 90 in 2nd and 125 in 3rd...

    So if you crack open a 6spd to change the gearing any "savings" from using the 6spd instead of a built 5spd is lost, and you are still lugging around an extra ~70lbs of transmission.
    +1000 That's why I bought 2 Legacy GT transmissions. Beefier gears. If I blow through them, there are other options before throwing a 6speed in. Like purpose built race gears that companies make. Time will tell, but the 6 speed is overrated/ too heavy for me right now.
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    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yes cuz you have an R so weight is important.

    About re-building a tougher 5sp, I know there are options for that, but does anyone know of a few of top of their head? Something reliable for street (no dog) and good quality product (which you never know when you search on the web and end up at some unknown place, which is what I would do if I would start a search now).
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-25-2013 at 03:37 PM.
    Frank
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    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    They are making new 5 speed dog box and Heli gears- thread is on a Subie forum. (NASIOC). Super pricey- hope I never need them. I know there are lower priced options (PPG) etc.
    Thanks- Chad
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  27. #27
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Plavan View Post
    They are making new 5 speed dog box and Heli gears- thread is on a Subie forum. (NASIOC). Super pricey- hope I never need them. I know there are lower priced options (PPG) etc.
    If PPG is the "lower price option," than I don't wanna know, lol

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    fasterer and furiouser longislandwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    If PPG is the "lower price option," than I don't wanna know, lol
    HAHAH I was about to say the exact same thing.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    EDIT- These are $6750...(YIKES)..... So its ballpark...
    Last edited by C.Plavan; 09-25-2013 at 03:33 PM.
    Thanks- Chad
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    The problem I have had with the 6 speed and a job I am doing is the lock to enable you to remove the centre diff. There are 3 different version of this diff so there are 3 different versions of the lock. Which proved to be a pain for me to get the right one.
    Tony

  31. #31
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    This is what I got right now. I wish I could find something similar.

    The wheel diameter used for these numbers is 25". I have 24" so I got a little slower on each gear, it's similar to a 3.94FD on 25".
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-25-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    This is what I got right now. I wish I could find something similar.

    EbV6gS.png
    What sort of centre diff do you have Frank? DCCD or normal?

  33. #33
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Sorry, I forgot to mention this is a FWD VW 02A tranny for the MK3 of mid-end '90s. I also edited the picture above, I thought I had 3.94 FD but it's 3.64.
    I got one diff, a great LSD, WaveTrac.
    Frank
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    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
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  34. #34
    nkw8181's Avatar
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    I didn't know the gears where so close on the 6 speed. I "assumed" it would be like the vette I had. Oh update on the cars. Date changed again........ Enough said......................

    Nolan

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    People talking about the 6 speed gearing as to short make me laugh. Maybe for a drag car but on the tarmac you want closer gears since your accelerating and also decelerating near the same speed so you don't want a huge ratio chage. Thats why subaru geared their "race" transmission the way they did, not to get low 100 kph (61 mph), but fastest track times.

  36. #36
    Member Slatt's Avatar
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    Tranny issues are sure to play a key role in how well an 818 works out. We already have a sticky thread about our choices for 5MT ratios. I'd add a few things to that thread: don't put power on somebody else's used 5MT without another way home; crack open and inspect your used 5MT before installing it in your 818; and ratios are a matter of personal taste / usage. OK, that last one was already in the tranny sticky.

    A gear set which is a joke for one purpose may be ideal for another purpose. HP, traction, important speeds, these are all going to be different for each of us. But I expect that most 818S drivers will find the factory USA 5MT 1st gear to be short and the stretch to 2nd to be long. It already is that way in an ordinary 3200lb AWD 300HP WRX. I know this from 10 years experience in my ESP prepped 2003 WRX grocery getter. Me, I want my 818S to serve both as an auto cross killer and a summer grocery getter. I know it can do that, I just need to confirm how... That means I'll be trying a mixed box with ratios of 3.083, 2.062, 1.545, 1.51, 0.738 mated with an NA H6 motor. This will get me good launches at autocrosses on the slicks i think will fit, reasonable choices on what gear to stay in for my local autocross courses, and reasonable revs on the highway. Getting what i want will be expensive, it means replacing most of the guts in whatever 5MT I use. Your mileage WILL vary.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Well the Vette... depends what you want, first of. Then the reason why the car has been designed for is another thing. I don't think it's fair to compare the Vette with the 818 or WRX/STI or VW Corrado, the Vette has so little in common with the other 3. It's true for a street car short ratios (not close ratios, I'm talking short ratios) are probably badly suited for a high torque front engine RWD like the Vette.

    What I personally like is a tall 1st gear, to prevent wheel spin at launch as much as possible and to get me up to speed without shifting and then a series of short and close ratios, cuz I want to stay in the power band as much as possible and I love shifting, it makes my ride funnier. I don't need top speed, I need acceleration and fun of shifting.

    Now back to the STI 6sp. If it has the 1st-5th ratios pretty much like the standard 5sp and just an added 6th for top speed and lower mpg + has stronger gears to sustain say 375-300rwhp/rwtq, then so be it, I think it's worth it especially if the donor comes with the 6sp and you got it for a decent price.

    But all in all, it depends what you want.
    Frank
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    I think it's worth it especially if the donor comes with the 6sp and you got it for a decent price.
    Good luck on that...
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  39. #39
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    What I personally like is a tall 1st gear, to prevent wheel spin at launch as much as possible and to get me up to speed without shifting and then a series of short and close ratios, cuz I want to stay in the power band as much as possible and I love shifting, it makes my ride funnier. I don't need top speed, I need acceleration and fun of shifting.


    But all in all, it depends what you want.

    Gotta say, my GTM does not have a tall 1st gear but to me it is the perfect set up. If wheel spin becomes an issue, by the time I shift into 2nd speed and traction are in sinc. When I want to hot dog and get the car sideways I play in first, no drama launches is all 2nd gear. I have a H/C C6 and the 1st gear is nearly used to get up to speed, in the GTM it is a whole different animal. Hopefully the 818 will be as fun in 1st as the GTM is.

    Different strokes.

  40. #40
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    Ill have to check but I think the 6th speed is shorter than a wrx 5th.

    Also after reading my last post, I think I was miss understood, Slatt nailed it with this statement, "A gear set which is a joke for one purpose may be ideal for another purpose."

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