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Thread: Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

  1. #1881
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajzride View Post
    I don't know about your whack-o European engine, but in a Detroit V8 low oil pressure after rebuild is usually caused by slightly looser tolerances on the main bearings. This is good for power, as it allows for freer rotation, at the cost of life expectancy. I imagine that means engine is good for 150K vs 200K, which probably doesn't matter on a car like this.
    Tnx for that! It explains a few comments I've read on various threads! The guys were saying "I checked my bearings tolerances and all is good". But they didn't say compared to what or why they are good.

    It's well possible my mech installed with looser tolerances, he followed JE's specs for the pistons, in relation with my power goal, so maybe he did the same on the bearings, which would makes sense.
    Also I use crank bearings and rod bearings that are calico coated to minimize friction, maybe that also has a slight impact.

    Next time I talk to him I'll ask about my current tolerances vs OEM's.

    In the meantime I'll stop worrying about this unless I get a warning light triggered.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  2. #1882
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Very small improvements today.

    Rode the car, only the parking lot still, and again no more than 15mins. But nothing broke!

    I had to go back in the garage cuz once water temps reached 90+ (195F for the rich people) the engine started to misbehave. Idle was dropping and idle valve kicking in every 3sec to pump up the rpm and prevent stalling. My guess is it's an ECU setting, probably not enough fuel compensation when temps reach that threshold, but I got to analyze. This very thing prevented me from driving the car on the road, so it sucks!

    Second thing is my fuel gauge was reading 102psi at idle (20hg vacuum)! The more water was hot, the more fuel gauge was higher. I have a POS Glowshift electrical gauge and a lot of people had issues with these, caused mostly by repeating water hammer effect every time the pump cranks up. Kills the sender. When pump cranks up and engine not running, I get 60psi and slowly going down, which is normal when pump goes on for 3sec and turns off after. So not sure how much it could be broken. I didn't notice any rich moments, in fact it was mostly the opposite. My FPR is 60psi. I know fuel works fine so if it's the sender I'll fix that later, no time now.

    Third and last thing (not too bad, 3 things) is a lot more worrying. Since engine rebuild I have a strange metallic vibration or quick CLICK CLICK CLICK which starts about 2300-2400rpm and gets louder up to 2500-2800rpm. It is loud enough to overcome the engine sound by a good amount. Like people with their mufflers hanging and making a lot of noises, you know what I mean? It's very similar. Worries me cuz 1- I don't want it to be something internal and 2- I can't look at it while I drive as it seems to be only under load. Gotta check if water temps have an effect or not.

    I hammered with fist in many places on the car, fixed all those I could hear any vibration noise. However I couldn't fix the exhaust. When I hammer the muffler or pipes I hear a click. If I shake the exhaust sideways I hear that click, but can't find where it comes from. Could be the WG's bellow. Maybe that's the noise I hear while driving, but it's a hard one to fix, don't think I can without cutting and re-welding some exhaust parts for which I don't have the welding gas anymore. Those 200 pounds tank are the only one with the right gas for SS, they suck for transit. Or I have to fix the muffler so that it would not move at all, which may cause some other issues over time.

    It worries me cuz when something vibrates and makes noise, it can wear or break over time. And you know I don't want something to brake while I'm away from my garage.



    It amazes me people like AZPete who built an 818C with full leather interior and they drive their car in a 10,000F desert and let it cook for hours in a 50,000F parking and still drive it 100s of miles every single day. How on earth did you manage to make your car so freakin reliable that easy?
    Last edited by Frank818; 08-20-2019 at 06:16 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  3. #1883
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

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  5. #1884
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

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  7. #1885

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    If I shake the exhaust sideways I hear that click, but can't find where it comes from.]
    Get some iron wire or similar, some springs like used on screen door closures or even bungie cords. Rig up some tension - maybe 15-20# of force - on some parts of your exhaust. Then drive and see if you can kill the tick sound - if coming from exhaust and tension can remove the sound you may be able to work your way to the "spot".

  8. #1886
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquillen View Post
    Get some iron wire or similar, some springs like used on screen door closures or even bungie cords. Rig up some tension - maybe 15-20# of force - on some parts of your exhaust. Then drive and see if you can kill the tick sound - if coming from exhaust and tension can remove the sound you may be able to work your way to the "spot".
    Not bad, I'll find a way to keep tension in it. Many solutions exist for that.
    Will test that tomorrow. I need to isolate its pattern (temps, rpms, load, etc.). But I'll put it under tension first anyway, if it fixes it then I know it's around there.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  9. #1887
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    OMG Frank: "90+ (195F for the rich people)" It's not that we're rich, but just that we can spell Fahrenheit.

    "It amazes me people like AZPete who built an 818C with full leather interior and they drive their car in a 10,000F desert and let it cook for hours in a 50,000F parking and still drive it 100s of miles every single day. How on earth did you manage to make your car so freakin reliable that easy?"

    You've got this wrong, Frank, I don't drive it 100s of miles every single day (160.93k for QCers), but only some days. And, some days are only 8,000F (4,426.6C for po' folk). And, I had some problems at first that I had to get solutions from the smart guys here. A big reason my 818 is reliable now is that it's fairly stock and not . . . as Ajzride called it . . . "a whack-o European engine".

    I've got to go back and look at your photos more carefully. Very cool interior, diffuser, naca (?) ducts, flush perimeter lights, and what else? Oh, the #1 of 1 !! And, more . . .
    Last edited by AZPete; 08-21-2019 at 10:56 AM. Reason: translations
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

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  11. #1888
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Making some progress! Woke up at 1h30AM to find some potential solutions. Not that I wanted to wake up, my body did.


    First, sorry Pete, I guess I have dreamed about that in the past, was 100% sure you were daily driving it. I wasn't that far off on the temperature, though.



    Second, I made progress on the current 2 misbehaviors:

    - Very bad idle starting at 91C. Thanks to my ECU logs I was able to pinpoint the exact moment where it happened. When all 3 of my fans kick in, it draws 240watts and drops 0.4volt. This uses engine's power, just like an A/C does. The problem wasn't fuel, it was air. I simply needed to uplift my idle valve when the fans kick in (there's an option to control that), I had it set to 2% uplift but it requires 9% to keep rpm stable. This is solved.

    - Metallic rattle. Happens also not under load but much more fainter. Under load it's louder. It seems to happen for about 500-800rpm in the 2300-3100 range, past that it's gone. Last night I thought it was engine knocking. So I throttled back ignition timing but that didn't seem to change much, so I'll continue looking around.


    Today was the 2nd time in a row I was able to drive/idle the car in the parking without having anything breaking or leaking. This is a first for 2 years!

    I also have to drain my 110 canadian bucks Break-in oil. It's not viscous enough (0w30), when oil temps reach a certain degree, the lifters start to make a lot of noise and I can't keep like that. 30mins of oil and down the drain it's going. I bought 10w40 mineral oil and will use that instead.
    Actually I have a video of the lifters making noise, will post another time.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  12. #1889
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    And now I have made a big step back.

    My magnetic oil drain plug is stuck in place, I tried all the possible adapters I have and it's now rounded off. I have to drill it out.
    This means drilling out the plug without screwing up the threads, let oil drain with metal chunks from drilling, removing the pan, thoroughly cleaning the pan, ordering a new plug and reinstalling everything.
    One really sad job.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  13. #1890
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I removed the pan before drilling out the plug. Made an oil mess of course.

    I cannot drill the plug, after 30mins of drilling with a 20volt drill I was not able to poke through. I have to bring the pan at the shop and use heavy tools. Probably Friday.


    So I checked if the pump was clogged and there is absolutely nothing clogging the mesh.
    I checked of the pick-up tube was tight and it is tight in place with silicone glue around. Nothing is moving in there and everything seems perfectly clean. Good news.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  14. #1891
    Senior Member DSR-3's Avatar
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    Or (maybe?) you can suck the oil out the dipstick and ignore the plug for another day...
    *How about an Easy-out?
    818S #332, EZ30R H6, California licensed 01/2019

  15. #1892
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    Use a Dremel to cut two flats into the drain plug. This will allow you to use a box (open end) wrench or vice grips.

    The other option is similar to how you can remove a torque-to-yield bolt, by cutting a flat into it and chiseling the bolt loose by tapping the edges with a hammer and screwdriver in the slot you cut.

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  17. #1893
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Tnx guys, there are some great ideas there indeed!


    This was before I removed the pan and started drilling.

    2019-08-21 13.15.48.jpg

    It was my mistake again. Like I said a while back I am so tired now after 4800h+ and not driving that I make a lot of mistakes. I torqued this sucker at 30fr-lbs but should have been 15lbs. I use an old drain plug torque figure (37ft-lbs), but that was for a normal plug with a washer on a steel pan, not like this one with a rubber o-ring on an alu pan.


    This is how clean and looking good internals are.

    2019-08-21 14.52.52.jpg2019-08-21 14.53.01.jpg
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #1894
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Funny I cannot paste my video, I can only paste the URL.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqK12yff_dw

    Description says it all.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  19. #1895
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    You guys are freakin awesome!

    I dremeled a slot and hammered in it with a punch. Took a while to punch but it worked! Without breaking the USD$760 oil pan (that I got for free).

    Ain't looking pretty.

    2019-08-21 20.14.34.jpg



    The punch took a severe hit but did its job.

    2019-08-21 20.14.47.jpg2019-08-21 20.15.01.jpg


    I'll clean the pan (powdered metal in it so this will allow me to fully clean it), reinstall it and wait for my Moroso 97006 oil drain plug from Amazon.ca.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  20. #1896
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Hey DSR, how's your 3.0 running, btw?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #1897
    Senior Member DSR-3's Avatar
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    Hey Frank, thanks for asking. I had been pondering a dedicated post on the H6 and it's virtues...
    It's running great. I'm at ~1,200 trouble-free miles now. 2 weeks ago it passed the cooling stress test of sitting in traffic over highway 17 to the beach, in the heat. Never topped 215F on water and didn't leak a drop. This last weekend we took a 75 mile trip through the same Santa Cruz mountains but to the south- fresh asphalt, a beautiful drive, and perfect weather. Awesome day. I really do like this engine in this car. It will pull uphill from 30MPH in 4th, stuck behind a Prius, and still go around it without a downshift (or, downshift and blast-past!). It makes cruising so nice, though it does sound a bit tractorish at those loaded low RPM's, BUT 4k+ and it sounds like a Porsche with balls- and pulls hard!
    I hope you get to enjoy your car soon too!
    -Eric
    818S #332, EZ30R H6, California licensed 01/2019

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  23. #1898
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR-3 View Post
    Hey Frank, thanks for asking. I had been pondering a dedicated post on the H6 and it's virtues...
    It's running great. I'm at ~1,200 trouble-free miles now. 2 weeks ago it passed the cooling stress test of sitting in traffic over highway 17 to the beach, in the heat. Never topped 215F on water and didn't leak a drop. This last weekend we took a 75 mile trip through the same Santa Cruz mountains but to the south- fresh asphalt, a beautiful drive, and perfect weather. Awesome day. I really do like this engine in this car. It will pull uphill from 30MPH in 4th, stuck behind a Prius, and still go around it without a downshift (or, downshift and blast-past!). It makes cruising so nice, though it does sound a bit tractorish at those loaded low RPM's, BUT 4k+ and it sounds like a Porsche with balls- and pulls hard!
    I hope you get to enjoy your car soon too!
    -Eric
    That is so awesome, I envy so much. First for living in a rain-free/cold weather-free place and second to drive trouble-free your 6cyl. There aren't many 6cyl in the 818!
    The reason why yours is running so great is cuz it's not a wacko euro engine. And some merits for the builder.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  24. #1899
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR-3 View Post
    Hey Frank, thanks for asking. I had been pondering a dedicated post on the H6 and it's virtues...
    It's running great. I'm at ~1,200 trouble-free miles now. 2 weeks ago it passed the cooling stress test of sitting in traffic over highway 17 to the beach, in the heat. Never topped 215F on water and didn't leak a drop. This last weekend we took a 75 mile trip through the same Santa Cruz mountains but to the south- fresh asphalt, a beautiful drive, and perfect weather. Awesome day. I really do like this engine in this car. It will pull uphill from 30MPH in 4th, stuck behind a Prius, and still go around it without a downshift (or, downshift and blast-past!). It makes cruising so nice, though it does sound a bit tractorish at those loaded low RPM's, BUT 4k+ and it sounds like a Porsche with balls- and pulls hard!
    I hope you get to enjoy your car soon too!
    -Eric
    I have to echo DSR's comments. The H6 is wonderful in the 818. I have 1,600 track miles on mine and its been fantastic! He is right about the sound though, sounds like a tractor below 4k, then sounds beautiful over that.
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018
    818R rebuild with a JDM Honda K24A

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  26. #1900
    Senior Member DSR-3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    That is so awesome, I envy so much. First for living in a rain-free/cold weather-free place and second to drive trouble-free your 6cyl. There aren't many 6cyl in the 818!
    The reason why yours is running so great is cuz it's not a wacko euro engine. And some merits for the builder.
    Thanks Frank. We're not quite "rain free", and it does get a bit chilly at times, but I totally admire you guys who live, and work in your garage, in places where it's truly cold. Studs you are!
    re. the H6, it's such a baby step compared to what you are doing, and it sucks to see you struggling after doing all the hard parts! Stick with it!
    818S #332, EZ30R H6, California licensed 01/2019

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  28. #1901

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSR-3 View Post
    re. the H6, it's such a baby step compared to what you are doing, and it sucks to see you struggling after doing all the hard parts! Stick with it!
    I agree, Frank, keep at it. One by one you're getting there. I've still got a bunch of projects in the way of seeing how my H6 behaves, but you guys are all making me hot to get it rolling.

  29. #1902
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    How easy is the EZ30R to turbocharge?

    I appreciate your support a lot guys. Makes quite a big difference.


    I didn't get my oil pan plug before the w-e, which is going to be rain free. In meantime I cleaned up totally the pan, there was a lot of black powder at the bottom, actually I am happy I removed it just for that reason. Less so I didn't get the plug for the w-e. Damn Amazon.CA not as good as Amazon.COM.

    2019-08-23 07.37.32.jpg


    Will put 10w40 next week and later after more miles I'll go with Valvoline VR1 Racing 20w50 mineral. It has ZDDP (zinc) and my mech uses it in its modified 1970s Porsche. Wait, 1980s maybe. Older engines tend to prefer mineral oil, apparently. The VR6 started its life just a bit after synthetics were known and popular, maybe it runs better with mineral. But certainly better with thicker oil.

    Also 3sec after my mech heard my video with tapping lifters, he told me I had one lifter with air in it. It's cool he said I had lifters with air in it, but he even got deeper in the statement by saying ONE lifter, not two or 3 or 5, just one.

    Rev it to 2k for a while and it should disappear. If not, wind it up to higher rpms, blipping, and increase pressure will push oil in the lifter. Once you fix that, drive it. Don't drive it with that sound.

    He really thinks the 20w50 zinc mineral VR1 oil would be the one to get.

    So what I am doing of a bunch of 5w30 mineral, 5w40 synthetic and I think 5w30 synthetic as well... 2 boxes + 20L. Bought my oil too quickly I guess.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  30. #1903
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    How easy is the EZ30R to turbocharge?

    I appreciate your support a lot guys. Makes quite a big difference.


    I didn't get my oil pan plug before the w-e, which is going to be rain free. In meantime I cleaned up totally the pan, there was a lot of black powder at the bottom, actually I am happy I removed it just for that reason. Less so I didn't get the plug for the w-e. Damn Amazon.CA not as good as Amazon.COM.

    2019-08-23 07.37.32.jpg


    Will put 10w40 next week and later after more miles I'll go with Valvoline VR1 Racing 20w50 mineral. It has ZDDP (zinc) and my mech uses it in its modified 1970s Porsche. Wait, 1980s maybe. Older engines tend to prefer mineral oil, apparently. The VR6 started its life just a bit after synthetics were known and popular, maybe it runs better with mineral. But certainly better with thicker oil.

    Also 3sec after my mech heard my video with tapping lifters, he told me I had one lifter with air in it. It's cool he said I had lifters with air in it, but he even got deeper in the statement by saying ONE lifter, not two or 3 or 5, just one.

    Rev it to 2k for a while and it should disappear. If not, wind it up to higher rpms, blipping, and increase pressure will push oil in the lifter. Once you fix that, drive it. Don't drive it with that sound.

    He really thinks the 20w50 zinc mineral VR1 oil would be the one to get.

    So what I am doing of a bunch of 5w30 mineral, 5w40 synthetic and I think 5w30 synthetic as well... 2 boxes + 20L. Bought my oil too quickly I guess.
    Wayne turbocharged his personal 818s with an ez30.

  31. #1904
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    33mins of engine running today. 0 new failures, 0 old ones coming back.

    Wait, does this mean the car is driveable?

    I think it is!! Not too far at 1st, but I think next time I'm going out!

    The 40-weight oil helped, I get maybe 2-3psi higher oil pressure but most of all no lifter tapping. And no oil sweating around my valve cover.

    Although I know I have weak clamps on a big coolant hose at one location, it didn't leak and I will change for better clamps anyway.

    I have not looked from under the car yet, but I see no droppings on the floor 6-8h after running it. Engine went up to 102C (216F down south) and I was able to maintain everything working well.
    Fuel adjustments are getting better and engine never went close to stalling.

    Drove a few 100s meters on the street about 5-6 times, no issues.

    My only only only complaint is that vibration between 2300 and 3000. It really seems to be the exhaust but I haven't had a chance to secure-test it, as I was fixing all the other issues. Also, it's not easy to find a way to lock the exhaust in place, I cannot use zip ties, cannot use cord, I need something heat resistant.

    Not sure how that vibration could make something fail over time. It sucks in a way cuz 2300-3000 is the exact RPM range I use at constant speed. Which makes me nervous to drive the car cuz I don't know if may fail or not. It's the only thing preventing me from a longer drive.


    Good news is the turbo spools up early than when it was in the Corrado. Also its sound is a little different, it really sounds like those real turbos you hear on youtube and everywhere else. Which means it was not installed (restriction, etc.) properly in my Corrado and now it probably is. I think I hear the turbo as low as 2500rpm with little pressure on the pedal, about a good 300rpm earlier than on my Corrado. Not bad for a GT35 0.63AR on 2.9L. I think this thing could make HUGE power if I can make it reliable.

    Engine really is a lot quicker than before the rebuild. Simple blips and first thing I know I hit 3.5krpm without hesitation.

    Today was a super beautiful day, just like those Sept QC days AZPete loves. Couldn't run it twice though as I had to work for work (still am), that's another story.

    We'll see what happens next time.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  32. Likes DSR-3 liked this post
  33. #1905
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    Use some metal wire (or mig wire) to secure the exhaust.

  34. #1906
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    I think I'm like lots of other guys here in looking forward to you reporting a successful drive. Yes, those Sept QC days are beautiful! Here in AZ it'll be 109 today (43 up north) but I'm headed out to a cooler place for Sept. Good luck, Frank.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  35. #1907
    Senior Member Jetfuel's Avatar
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    Yes, we're all looking forward for a full entry of a successful long drive were you just let it rip
    Try some bailing wire, safety wire or even coat hangers to hold the exhaust

  36. #1908
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    That's got to be a sweet feeling to get a few trips in without any serious findings. Overdue for sure.

  37. #1909
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Tried welding wire but that didn't work, there is constant tension and twist on the wire (from the reel) and I couldn't get tight it enough it was always loosening up.
    But I found something in my scrap box, didn't have my phone to take a pic this morning before running to work but it worked. The exhaust is pushed slightly to the left to keep it in place and when I hammer on it with my fist it doesn't move anymore, nor does it make a metal CLING CLING.

    Will test drive next time.

    I found where that cling cling comes from and I am unhappy. It's the bellows of the WG dump tube. There must be something inside the bellow, probably the pipe when it got pushed inside and then welded, I guess when the bellow bends it hits on the pipe inside and makes that sound.

    That would be a PITA to fix. Especially I don't weld SS anymore, would ask someone to do it while installed on the car to keep the right tension and clearance on the pipe.
    Hopefully I can find another solution than cutting and rewelding.

    Speaking of which, I have a bellow on the DP before the muffler front hanger.
    I also have a bellow on the WG dump tube which merges to the exhaust pipe before the muffler front hanger.

    The front hanger is fitted on a rubber mount which is secured to the frame.
    I use a 2nd muffler hanger at the rear also on a rubber mount to the frame.

    Does this mean I don't really need my pipe bellows?
    In which case I could cut the WG tube bellow and weld a pipe in place. Still need to weld but it's a one-piece construction, wherease the bellow has the pipe slipping inside before welding.

    Bummer I didn't take a pic, but will tonight.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-03-2019 at 10:18 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  38. #1910

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    There is a good chance you free all the nuts and bolts along the whole path then start at one end and tighten the first item (and I mean all the way to the engine exhaust ports). Starting there first then each joint after you tighten it, you wiggle the rest of the parts to let them settle as much as they can as you go along. Might just go away. I suppose that won't be fun but no welding unless you're still clink-a-dinking.
    Last edited by aquillen; 09-03-2019 at 11:42 AM.

  39. #1911
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    It could be an alignment issue, yes. I don't recall having that sound at all before rebuilding the engine and the exhaust was the exact same fitted the same way. I know the parts don't fit without some tension somewhere, I couldn't get all those custom parts to fit freely, some need to give away their freedom and work harder to make the entire exhaust fit. And the one working harder is the WG tube, it needs maybe 0.25in of curved (not just straight) extension in order to be bolted on the WG. Maybe fitting an alu spacer and 2 gaskets would be the solution.

    This is how cramped up it is. One hanger on the right side can be seen.

    2019-09-04 07.45.06.jpg


    Second hanger here at the bottom.

    2019-09-04 07.45.14.jpg


    Culprit, most probably, this WG tube bellows.

    2019-09-04 07.45.25.jpg



    And this is how I pulled the entire exhaust to the left and keep it there so no movement would be possible. Forget the tie-wrap I changed that for a bolt this morning.

    2019-09-04 07.45.44.jpg


    This w-e I'll test that, will know very quickly the result. If the sound is gone or at least different, next step is to unbolt the WG tube and run the engine without any tube connected to it. I guess if I don't boost no gases would come out of the WG so I should be ok for a few vacuum pulls and idle blips.

    If it is the WG bellows, I'll try to either fit a custom spacer or buy a lot of gaskets, pile them up and bolt them in place. A gasket is always a point of failure, though, the more I add, the more POFs I add.

    Will also try re-bolting the exhaust differently to put tension elsewhere. However I found it this way I did it now is the best to have a perfectly centered tip. Other bolting ways led me to tip alignment issues, which stands out quite a lot even though it's a black tip surrounded by a black grill.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-04-2019 at 07:25 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  40. #1912

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    You're hot on the trail at this point, solution no doubt will come.

  41. #1913
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    Frank, I would think a pile of gaskets would burn up pretty quickly. Even aluminum in an exhaust stream would seem sketchy to me. New bellows aren’t too expensive. Good luck!

  42. #1914
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I don't think a new bellow will do it, unless I change bellow style/design. That's an option!

    Not sure actually if my gasket is alu or SS. They don't say. But it's made in USA so it has to be the best, right?

    I might have an extra flange I could use that too.

    Or maybe a pile of fiber gaskets? I found out those tend to burn a lot more than metal gaskets.

    But before I get there I'll see if it's the bellow and if yes I'll try to angle it differently when bolting. As long as it doesn't put more tension elsewhere on the exhaust.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  43. #1915
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    TEST #1

    Unsuccessful. Vibration still present, maybe just 10% better, difference so small I believe there is no difference.

    What you think, should I disconnect my WG tube and have a small run WG directly to atmosphere? Anyway I don't boost more than 1-2psi, the spring opens up at 7-8psi when I don't control it so I guess the WG won't open at all.



    Longest run ever!!!

    However that was my longest run ever. I did around the block maybe 3 times and probably 4-5 times around the parking. Engine never went close to stalling, I do have some fuel spots way too rich along the band but none too lean in the area I drove in. No leak while engine running, but I suspect an oil leak around the head gasket hours after engine cools down, will see tonight.

    The turbo hiss is AWESOME.
    The engine is very very quick. I find myself at 3krpm in no time to think and that's at 40-50% throttle. I could feel the engine wanting to rev a lot higher but since I need to break it in I cap it off around 3500.
    Did I say turbo hiss AWESOME?
    It seems I have adjusted perfectly my throttle transients, when you cruise and then press on the throttle, fuelling adjustments in that scenario is critical, otherwise it bucks and obviously you loose all turbo spooling momentum in spirited driving.
    Steering is super quick!
    Car does not pull in any direction and I did not notice any bumpsteer, front and rear.
    Front suspension stiff.
    Exhaust gases don't really smell. Idling yes a bit due to wind, but while driving I did not notice fumes coming back in the cockpit. So far. My hair do smell a little after the ride but that's also cuz I get the car in the garage and stay there for a while. But few hours later hair don't smell.
    Turbo hiss AWESOME. lol
    You do have to step on the brakes if you want to stop, need time to get that in my head.
    I need to upgrade my rad fan. I have one 14in fan, it's not powerful enough. I cannot let the engine idle for too long, it will get hotter faster than will it cool, which is not good. But as soon as I drive airflow seems fine and temps quickly go down.

    Sure car is not Hindsight/AZPepete perfect, still need tuning + 1-2 sounds that I had fixed in the past are still there but only in very specific situations and barely noticeable. Should be ok on those though.

    I think I need 20w50 oil. It will probably help a few things and maybe prevent that oil leak when metal parts are contracting and cooling down.


    Tomorrow morning I'll do another test for that vibration, if it's ok to drive without the dump tube connected.


    Turbo hiss is AWESOME.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-07-2019 at 12:08 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  44. #1916
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    TEST #2

    Utterly unsuccessful. I disconnected the dump tube from the WG, still connected to the exhaust cuz it's welded onto it. I believe the engine was sucking in air from the tube and going back in the engine. The car was stalling all the time after a few secs. It was running somewhat ok, not that good though, and then out of nowhere it was leaning out and shutting down. I put my hand on top of the tube and I could feel air, although I was unable to determine which direction it was travelling, but it didn't seem that hot.

    Anyway I was still able to blip rpms in a moment where the engine finally settled and oh god that guy just passed by with his working red Ferrari, go to hell! So I was saying after it settled I bilpped it and I was able to hear the vibration the same way I use to when the WG is connected. Which is super barely, but I notice that same very very small vibration/sound.

    I think it's not the exhaust. Either way I will put 3 gaskets sandwhiched together instead of one. 2 SS and 1 fiber. I have plenty of time to remove the 2 I added if that doesn't help in any way, cuz I cannot boost for quite some time still.


    Now I have to look elsewhere. Maybe the rear of the gearbox rubs on the frame, I'll raise it 1/8 and see on my next test, next w-e I guess.
    In the meantime I'm off at the local store to get some 20w-50 Zinc added conventional racing oil and change the oil again this week.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  45. #1917
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    TEST #3

    Failed yet again.
    This time I removed the rear diffuser, cuz hitting on it I could hear vibration on the frame.

    Now I think the vibration sound gets louder when engine is hotter. Sounds like internal to me.

    I'll try a few other parts around and if no success then I'll have to take it for examination by my mech, he might have an idea, but can't listen to the sound until I get there with the car. Can't get there yet cuz I was afraid that vibration could cause issues. Catch 22.

    I now run 20w-50, will give it a try in a few days. I've got high hopes on that oil.

    I think I could risk it and drive further next time.


    EDIT: At 7AM this morning I decided to wake up everyone by testing out the car. Didn't want to wait for this w-e or late at night.
    It was 8C (46F) outside with almost no sun yet on the car. At least I know it's very well driveable downtown at cold temps, which means I can extend the season in Nov. Good thing to know.
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-10-2019 at 12:40 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  46. #1918
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I need to upgrade my rad cooling.

    At the moment I have a 1800CFM 14" pull fan on the rad. Not sufficient to cool the VR6 at idle.
    I have a HE in front of the rad, it's not fully sealed between the 2 rads.

    Should I use dual fans pull-type on the rad or 1 pull on the rad and 1 push on the HE at the front?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  47. #1919
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    2 Pull. Mixing a push and pull is very tricky, they can fight each other if not properly matched.

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  49. #1920

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    From personal experience and many other comments posted, a very small amount of air interferes or completely stops coolant flow. Of course you can guess whether you have flow by how hot the pipes are getting in/out of the radiator.

    And even a rather small air passage between the front and back of the radiator will allow a surprising amount of air to simply circulate. I looked through your posts about three pages back to see if you put a top block plate over the radiator under the hood. Did not see that. I suggest you try some cardboard blocking/packing just to see if you can get idle cooling working with what you have before changing fans. Minimize air recirc paths within reason.

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