Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

Got my cover. It's dirty, needs a very good clean-up and this winter powder coating. This time I'll have it coated in... BLUE, of course!

2019-09-23 17.35.08.jpg2019-09-23 17.35.24.jpg


Also got these girls:

2019-09-23 17.33.38.jpg2019-09-23 17.33.44.jpg

Now these are cam gears. I remember someone telling me if possible to change my cam gear that twisted on the cam in case it got stressed. Well I found that product at my old place in PA so I took a pair. Winter project along with cover and replacing 2 faulty lifters (DLC coating has gone wrong).
They are infinitely adjustable without turning the cams!
As you can see on the pic, there's always a hole that goes through. You turn the gear and the inner center piece does not. In one of those holes I then push a dowel pin to secure the cam gear alignment and on top to secure the dowel pin I either put a cam sensor or that flat huge washer.
These cam gears are designed to accommodate resurfaced heads and blocks with head gasket spacers. I've got both. This might have explained why I rushed so hard timing the cams and could get a perfect timing.
Now with these I put the cams DEAD ON and set the chain slack by turning the gears.


And to go along with this, I got a manually adjustable chain tensioner.

2019-09-23 17.33.53.jpg

Instead of using oil pressure which causes too much pressure at high rpm/boost, this is a steady pressure tensioner. I run the engine at idle, hear chain noises, I turn the small knob until I hear no noise, I stop there and secure the adjustment with the hex bolt. Bingo. Less stress in chain and gears, less wear.


Also Porsche lovers, this is a must! Wish I could build one but no space.

[Frank818]

Found exactly why my cover warped and was about to warp another one.


Check this thing.

2019-09-25 06.00.58.jpg2019-09-25 06.14.43.jpg


There’s some kind of a washer around the stud, was fixed there, didn’t move or remove. Turned out to be the washer from the gasket, stuck there. All holes are washers embedded in gasket rubber.

It got stuck there when I removed the cover after my bent valve. Which explains exactly why it was dry from mechanic and started to leak after I reinstalled the head.

No wonder why it was all pouring on my spark plug and pulleys!


I still put my old cover back on, torqued to 8lbs instead of 7lbs, seems to have squashed the gasket tight all around.


Friday or Sunday I'll give it a try.

[aquillen]

Always a good feeling to sort stuff like this out, finally understanding what was wrong. And just proves you able to troubleshoot and fix.

[codename Bil Doe]

In image 06.14.43, is it an optical illusion or is the tab for that bolt hole fractured at the radius?

[fletch]

Nice find! So great to discover the cause of an issue. Keep up the good work!

[Frank818]

In image 06.14.43, is it an optical illusion or is the tab for that bolt hole fractured at the radius?

On the black cover, you mean?

2019-09-25 06.14.43 (1).jpg

Optical illusion, the cover is made like that it's not all smooth there are some seams areas.

[sgarrett]

It is amazing how after all the hard work, big problems we need to solve, and intricate engineering in these systems, it can still be the little things that get us. Congrats on figuring this one out! I am truly hoping to find something like this in the clutch area when I get mine back apart.

[Frank818]

It is amazing how after all the hard work, big problems we need to solve, and intricate engineering in these systems, it can still be the little things that get us. Congrats on figuring this one out! I am truly hoping to find something like this in the clutch area when I get mine back apart.

It sure is, man. All those little things I believe I've caught maybe just 10% of them before they caused me issues at some point. We are so focused on the big issues that those little ones slip through like... like well, I was about to use a reference Trump would happily use but I'll hold on.

As an example, this little washer stuck there, I knew it was there! I saw it when I took the gasket off for bent valve repair on July 1st! And every time I put the cover on later, or timed the cams using my cam tool which requires to sit over that stud I was seeing that damn washer.
And yet I never did anything about it cuz I didn't know why that was there, it was a "too little thing to focus on".



So everyone as a lesson learned, keep the same high focus on the little things as you do on the big issues. Cuz overseeing the little ones may well cause you big ones later on! And you will swear forever when that happens, trust me, swears are the only words left in my vocab now.

[sgarrett]

[QUOTE=... swears are the only words left in my vocab now.[/QUOTE]

I always thought swearing was the refuge of the ignorant....but now I also understand it is the vocabulary of the kit car builder! I have now cleaned up as much coolant off of my floor as I have managed to keep in the car.

[Frank818]

F*CK YEAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

This is the sound of a car that did 15km, 41mins running, 2 startups, in one drive!

That is more than twice the distance I've ever made before and I went 3 times further out the neighborhood.

Car refused to break! I don't really understand. loll
It's not perfect! But it seems I can drive!

No leak at all on the valve cover! Impressive. And head gasket does not seem to leak either.

Why I stopped after 15km?

1- I still don't fully trust the car, I need one good drive without any uncontrollable leak. In order to find a leak I need to let it cool.
2- Overheating. The stupid Chinese 14" fan without a shroud I have is CRAP! I put my hand over when it was spinning after shutdown to cool engine and couldn't feel much air. Maybe it's partly broken and does not spin at full speed.

In order to keep the engine cool I need to drive at a certain speed without stopping. Impossible downtown cuz I stop often. And I cannot get out of downtown yet. But I'm close!!

Other good news!! Dump that Chinese fan!! I was working from home today cuz I took the afternoon off in order to drive the car and my shroud kit with 2-12" fans arrived this morning! In between 2 meetings, absolutely the perfect moment! I wasn't expecting it today! Man I sure got lucky.

USA made, looks awesome. I hope I can fit it tomorrow while it'll be raining full day. Got other priorities too.
Full sunny day on Sunday, I could drive again!



Still needs quite some fuel tuning. Still got that metallic vibration but it was not there all the time and as long as before. I drove the 1st time without a bunch of parts I had removed to test that vibration. Still vibrating. This really yields me to internal engine, there's nothing left for me to remove.

Sorry for only 9sec but it's hard when you have your 2 hands and brain working on other stuff, plus I missed my 3rd gear shift so I lost video recording focus and put it on the gearbox.






Still got that lifter tapping once in a while too but it's not that bad.

https://youtu.be/iya3chuTdao



I changed my plugs, just in case. Engine sound is now slightly different when warmed up. It gets deeper and more... hum, mellow, insulated, smooth. Hard to describe, but it's exactly how I envisioned it. If only I could get rid of that damn vibration.

Very easy to rev past 3k on accel.

Brakes work better when warmed up, less pressure required to brake and pedal feels a little less hard. I start to get used to no power brakes, seems to work quite well.

Shifting is hard. 30% of the time I was missing shifts or 1st gear was popping out. My 1st gear has NO synchro, it's 1988! I looked stupid a few times at a stop trying to launch and CRRRRCHCHHHHH, grinding 1st gear, wouldn't launch. I'll perfect that with time and this winter I'll see if I can adjust the cables.

Steering seems 99% perfect! Does not trame line, does not pull either way on accel, no pulling at constant speed, no pulling when braking, stable turns, stable on bumps, all good. I think it could be better but only lasers will make it better. Will do one day. It's free, my mech has a machine at his shop.


This car is a freakin huge magnet, though. An 8yo girl who was about to get in her mom's SUV saw me and she pointed her finger at me while yelling something at her mother. And she got her out of the car to look at that blue thing! And hear it making a metallic vibration. But they probably don't remember that.


Now I have to fix some small leaks, including this one that I'm sure no one has ever had on the VR6.

2019-09-27 13.37.08.jpg


But that's minimal, as long as I can DRIVE!

When I was driving, at one point I felt the engine and rest of car doing pretty great. I that precise moment, I yelled F*CK YEAH!

That felt great. It was a great drive, considering all the non-stop crap I had in the past 2 years.

I need a beer. 2 beers. 3 beers. Vodka. Scotch. Bourbon, Gin.

[Jetfuel]

Good to hear that....
Now...take the rest of the evening off...get your beverage of choice...go in the garage...look at that blue machine and say it out loud...."hell yeah...I built that "
Tomorrow is another day

Congrats my friend...

[Frank818]

"hell yeah...I built that "

You bet.

[Frank818]

Installed my dual-fans shroud kit!

Took 7.5h straight, no drinking, no eating. Just a couple of wizzes.

2019-09-28 14.22.42.jpg

That American guy really did cut the shroud perfectly, isn't that right? Fits superb, NO modification to it. Just holes for mounting tabs and fans.


I wanted to test them out but then I hit a wall again. My fuses for the front accessories (as rad fans) are inaccessible. I have to completely remove the dash OFF THE CAR. Couple hours work, due to many gauges and switches and kill switch which are always difficult in their own ways to disconnect and/or reconnect.

I should have installed my InfinityBox Powercell under the dash frame and not on top of it! I knew that, however I never thought I would need to change a fuse QUICKLY. The problem here is "quickly".


Other lesson learned, guys, NEVER design your fuse installation in a way it takes time to get to it. Make it easily accessible, at all costs. If you don't, you better have a god damn great reason more important than anything else your life.

I'll see if I can make it tomorrow and drive while it's sunny and reasonable temperature. The more I wait the less driving days there will be, which is why I am racing against time since 5AM this morning, but I didn't take into account the dash removal. Will have to cut on other activities, I think.

[Frank818]

Incredible, I was able to make it, removing the dash, changing the fuse, reinstalling. Found a way it takes less time, still not fun but takes less time.

The fans seem loud but I got 2 small fans running in the back as well and they make more noise than the 2-12" up front.




Then it's time for a drive!

No it's not.
When I turn on my ECU, the fuel pump doesn't start. Again. I removed the rear FW to gain access to fuses, wires and pump and guess what?
The exactly same issue that happened this summer happened again!

The ground on the fuel pump connector has melted and collapsed! Even though I had put a lot of marine epoxy to keep it in place. Really amazing.

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You can clearly see the ground pin collapsed.


Art, I think I'm gonna need your expertise on this one. How can I rule out the pump itself?
AEM recommends 20A fuse, that is what I have. It has not blown.

Then why would the ground overheat like that?
Is it really a bad connector design or I am doing something wrong in my wiring/pump setup?

If all is right on my end, then I have to drill holes and pass-through other wires to bypass the connector. In a better way that I did last time, though.

[aquillen]

Not easy to tell just looking at pictures but I get the feeling that red connector's brass contacts are just not up to the task. Either they are getting spread and then loose fitting to the solid pins or the red shell is not going fully into the socket - so they aren't fully engaged. Could be those contacts have a design or material defect so they are not gripping as tight as they are supposed to. Given both times you've seen the same thing, in my case I'd probably go with what you tried before - run bypass wires down a spare tube or make an opening for wires, and bypass that fried connector pair with good connections you can trust.

If the pump was stalling at power up it would draw a lot of extra current but with 20amp fusing, it should pop the fuse, not just cook the connector. About the only way to "test" the pump for stall or overcurrent when running is get a DC ammeter in the circuit and see what it does at each pump start and then running. Try it a bunch of times. Also verify the fuse itself really is a 20A fuse, just in case it is running way overcurrent but the fuse is not a 20...

[Frank818]

Tnx Art!

One more info, before the 1st meltdown I was using a 15A fuse. Never blown. Then I read the pump's manual and they recommend 20A so I put 20A. Which means I changed fuse so if it was the fuse, a 15A and 20A would have done the exact same thing (overcurrent and not true 15 and 20A).

As you said maybe the problem is in the red connector and not the black one on the pump unit. Too bad it's fried now, I would have used that black connector and make my own female ones to mate with it.

Last time I found out the spare tube was risky and is limited in wire size. I'll drill a hole, or maybe 2 small holes, this time. Either way I have to close tight the holes, whether from the spare tube or drilling. I might use the spare tube for just 1 wire and drill a small hole for another wire. Anyway I'll make tests for the best solution, but bypass here I come again and this time you must not fail.

It's really sad, it's the 1st fix I do that blows up in my face a 2nd time. On the other hand, I know the car runs, now. I only did 48km in 1 season (target was 1500) but I know it runs. I don't feel frustrated, I just feel sad after the very hard work I put on it this w-e in order to drive it but couldn't. Just a couple of days left for the season, considering I work 5 days a week.



Oh, lesson learned again, guys: always use FLUX PASTE when soldering wires. When I soldered the wires for my new rad fans I decided to follow Art's advice and use flux paste. I thought that thing was a scam and not really working or just in very precise situations. I tried it once on an AWG0 or 1 wire while soldering a huge o-ring terminal and it didn't work.
But turns out the AWG6 or 8 wires I soldered for the fans, sometimes up to 3 of them at the same time, were heating up in a matter of seconds and the soldering wire was melting through each individual hair wire. It was A LOT easier and FASTER to solder, no soldering wire puddle anymore. And the result is a stronger solder than I've ever done. Faster and better, it's possible to have both! Just listen to Art and use flux paste.

[aquillen]

Make sure you are using rosin flux not acid flux, pretty sure I said that before but important. Acid flux will corrode the parts over time.

[Jetfuel]

Frank...follow the advice of the mad scientist (Art)
If OK then run your wires your way but if I had to do it I will get rid of the connector and use a bus bar for both power and an independent ground...no other grounds in the same location...

Keep rocking it

Jet

[Frank818]

Well things evolved a lot since 5hAM this morning.

Art, frist tnx for your PM it inspired my creativity (see below). Second, this is the flux I got, doesn't say acid or rosin, but by the ingredients I'm sure you'll know right away.

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I have dismantled, on my older unit, the entire black casing on the fuel unit. I saw how the brass pin and wires were designed and installed.

I am left with 2 holes. I will pass through 2 wires and make a connection outside the unit with a connector of my own and solder inside the pump on the pump's connector.
That is the easy part.

Then I have to seal around the wires.
I removed my new unit from the tank and god.... the marine epoxy that they say resists fuel has started to peel off!! No wonder the pin collapsed when it overheated, the bond between the epoxy and alu is gone, there is a gap now.

The funny thing is my tank is quarter full. So there is no permanent fuel at the very top of the tank, just splashes, maybe, when I drive.

I need to find a better sealant. God damn fuel, that thing is so nasty!
Once I find the right sealant then all will be fine forever.

Hum, maybe fiberglass/carbon fiber resin? Not sure it'll hold up well on alu. That's the harder part, I need a sealant that bonds well on alu and resists being in fuel.

[STiPWRD]

Have you thought about running the wires through a rubber grommet and then sealing the grommet to the bulkhead with some silicone? You could also try fuel resistant RTV to make the seal.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-8542...a-571817582075

[aquillen]

JB Weld is supposed to be fuel resistant as well. It will be permanent with that in there. If you run insulated wire through, fuel can wick up inside the insulation, so would want bare conductors I think.

That flux is usually just called an acid flux since it is zinc and ammonium - chlorides (both of these are "salts" but often are mixed with a mild acid as well when formulating the flux product). These salts like to acquire moisture which then is followed with corrosion even without added acids, especially if electrical current flow can be established between conductors (even minute flow due to traces of conductivity that the wetted salts provide).

Since you've used it, I suggest cleaning it as much as possible using two steps - sodium bicarbonate/water solution followed with soapy water using a tooth brush. Heat gun dry afterward to force out water quickly and completely. I've never seen detailed cleaning instructions but this should minimize problems.

Once cleaned, seal the area against moisture absorption with some RTV. Note there are two kinds of RTV (at least) - some emit acetic acid as they cure and this in itself will be another corrosion problem. You can usually tell the kind that does this - it has a strong pungent/acrid smell when it is dispensed. Some RTV products are "electrical safe" and do not release acid when curing. "Low odor" silicone RTV is usually suited but read the packaging. If "emits" acetic acid during cure - skip it.

Example to use = Permatex Black Silicone Adhesive
US Part Number: 81158
Canada Part Number: 59203
This product specifically includes use for electrical wiring.

[aquillen]

Just a note - rosin flux will always state "for electrical/electronic use". Other fluxes may not state anything about "electrical/electronic".

[Frank818]

Yes I thought about grommets but I have no indication those I got are fuel resistant.

The marine epoxy I had used is from JB Weld and claim resists fuel.

I do use Permatex RTV US 80016. Maybe it's not the right one but this one worked very well on fuel so far, I'm just not sure if it will last dipped in fuel.
I will take a look at the other suggested part numbers.


So far I checked if I could use a screw and locknut, but I'm not sure about it. Maybe with 6-32 or 8-32 through the holes.
Turns out there is a small thick o-ring rubber between the black casing and alu. So I passed through new wires and used the RTV to bond and seal. Then from the outside on top of the wires and rubber I will use the marine epoxy. It won't be dipped in fuel there, so that should be ok.

I'll think again on the screws and locknut, this would squeeze the parts and rubbers which would maximize strength. I'll get some brass screws.

And will clean the flux after using it once I do my connections and solderings.

[Jetfuel]

Fuel tank sealant
DeSoto. PRC 1440
Or
3M AC-350 B 1/2

Need some.....let me know

Jet

[Frank818]

Damn, aerospace stuff! Yes for long term use, I'll PM you later this week.

While reading about the DeSoto stuff, this came along

The cures sealant maintains excellent elastomeric properties after prolonged exposure to both jet fuel and aviation gas.

Prolonged exposure to Jetfuel (from Indiana)... lollll And you thought I wouldn't see that?



Ok I'm not happy about the wire pass through setup. It won't last very long! When wires wiggle, the sealant moves as it's not the hardened version. I can get the hardened version, but still I would not be happy with just wires.

So tomorrow I'm going at the local store to get 6-32 brass screws and zinc locknuts (they don't seem to have brass lock nuts in 6-32) and I will make a kick a** setup. I was able to save the 4 o-ring terminals and wires on my 2 units (2 per units), which means I can use them (they are small yet for the right wire diameter) on both sides of the unit, outside squashed by the locknuts and inside tank squashed by the screw head. Or the other way around if the nuts are inside tank.

Since I also have the 4 rubber washers I'll use them both sides as well. With a bit of fuel sealant + some epoxy on the outside just to seal even better by hardening, yet still able to unscrew the nuts. Just need to protect the exposed screws. I have liquid electric rubber for that.

That will be sturdy enough and as sealed as I can make it in the short term. This winter I'll look to make it even better

[Frank818]

Turbo hiss, engine sound, massive gearbox whining. Those are the noises of a real car.

Listen at 14m30s what he says. That is exactly what's happening with our 818s, on the roads.

[Jetfuel]

I guess that we can all relate to that comment...
After driving my car for over 4K miles since mid April I can tell you that the looks and the same question of "what kind of car is that" never gets old....

Jet

[Frank818]

HEEELLLLLL YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

I BUILT THIS CAR!!!!




Damn it's hard to take a video while driving. I couldn't do it more spirited, but it'll come!

Another 14km and the car was running better than last time. It seems the suspension gets better, I guess it settles the more I drive it. Same for steering, transitions where totally smooth.

That car has a lot of torque!!
Still needs a fuel tune but that will be the case for a couple of 1000skm until I get it much better.
It seems the engine changes over time, regarding fuel. Maybe the rings settle and this reduces blowby or increases it, whichever, it's a bit different now on my fuel and I have to adjust.

It was only 12C (54F) but sunny and that was just PERFECT inside the car. I guess the engine warms up the cockpit just right for that temp. Now I know this car can be driven until so freezing the summer tires will get too hard. Which means I can most probably extend the driving season as far as Dec 1st, cuz every year our law requires us to have winter tires on starting on Dec 1st, which I won't buy of course!

I found how to engage R, 1st, 3rd and 5th easier, I have to adjust the shift cable. Now though I went too far and 2nd and 4th were a little more difficult. I will back off a bit and hope it won't affect the other 3 gears, but I'm sure I can find a sweet spot.

Dual-fan rad shroud kit! AWESOME!!!!! That thing works so damn well only a few mins after shut down the rad was COLD. When I came back and opened the hood the air inside was already cold. It used to be very hot and the rad was hot for a looong time. Not anymore. I also saw the temps drop quickly once the fans kicked in. Not sure I can get them down as much as OEM Subaru (tnx Harley for letting me know those temps!), but they dropped by a very manageable number.

DO NOT install your rad without a shroud! And without enough CFM. Unless you rarely drive downtown.

The kit I have is so quiet I do not hear them, I only hear the loud smaller fans in my engine bay/oil cooler.

Sure there are 3-4 minor leaks I need to fix but that doesn't prevent me from driving so far. No valve cover leak at all and no head gasket leak!


LET'S ROLL!!!

[Frank818]

Right I forgot to show my fuel pick-up solution.

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You can see the previous wire overheated!

I'll need some aerospace fuel sealant for this winter so I can better seal all that and seal the pick-up ring so it won't leak when I have a full tank.

[Frank818]

Another thing I forgot, that weird vibration at a certain RPM.

It changed. Now it's a little less loud and the RPM range is less than before, it starts around 2300 and stops around 2700. It starts not loud and gets louder until it peaks at 2500 and then gets softer until gone at 2700.

Weird thing, but it gets better.

[aquillen]

Pump connector you made looks good. Good you are on the road too! Congrats in order.

[Frank818]

Wouldn't have made it without your advice, Art...

[Harley818]

Hopefully you can get some drive time in now. Glad to see you on the road.

[Pearldrummer7]

Man this is AWESOME. Congrats on driving it around (again). Mount a GoPro so we can hear it when you step on the gas hard

[AZPete]

heeellllll yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!

I congratulate that guy!!!!

[Canadian818]

Frank, your perseverance is inspirational, so happy to see you driving! .....slow clap....

[Frank818]

Mount a GoPro so we can hear it when you step on the gas hard

Thinking of getting one. If anyone sells his or knows where to get a cheap working one I'd check for that.

[svanlare]

Just caught back up on your thread!!!!! SOOOOOOO AWESOME!!!!!!

[Frank818]

WONDERFUL day today! Perfect weather!

Clocked 38km! In 2 sessions, drove for over 1h (excluding idle time). I am now at 106km for the year, which is just a day of driving for all of you but for me it's a Guiness record. And everything started working at a time I was about to store the car for the winter, who knew...

I went twice as far as last time, almost got out the boundaries of my town.

Fuel map... hard in some spots. I really think the engine acts different the more the rings seat in. There's always a new spot that I need to fix, but it's still driveable so that's good.

It was relatively hot in the cockpit, even though weather was 16-17C. I implemented heated seats but honestly the engine heats up so much I think I could even drive in subzero (sub-32F) temps and I wouldn't need heated seats! I would need cooling seats for the summer, which I won't implement.

I found the sweet spot on my shifter cables, I can engage all gears without any grinding or gear popping. That really helps enjoy the ride more. When I engage perfectly the gears it is SO MUCH FUN to drive. Very very quick shifting when I get it perfect and super smooth on engine. Usually 65 to 75% of the time I was getting it perfect.

The suspension surprised me. On long bumps (long up and down movements on a timeline scale) it absorbs super well I was amazed how smooth it was. Sporty but not harsh!
On very short bumps (short hits on the suspension on a timeline scale), it's not as good, it transfers the hit to the chassis and body panels. Sometimes I heard a TOK somewhere between the fuel tank and rear driver's wheel well. And you feel the suspension firmer but not that noisy, the car is not as noisy as I thought it would be on bumps. I don't have rattles, apart the one at a specific RPM which changed again today. Getting better I think.

I think #400 in the rear is almost perfect for the VR6. #375 might be better but I would need to drop to #325 up front and raise the rear to acomodate softer springs (I am very low at the rear) which may cause potential issues with my axles' angle, so I'll drive for a long time with #400 and I'm fine with that.


Will try to have videos next time.

[q4stix]

Awesome! Glad to hear the progress and that you're able to start driving it for real now!