Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Xusia]

Disassembly required no more than hand tools. I used a grinder to cut the seal off the rack shaft, and a welder to weld the pinion quill.

[Rasmus]

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.

I do. Reassembling our drum brakes/parking brake is harder to do than the the steering rack. If you can do a drum brake you can do the rack.

[Frank818]

I thought so... I was ready for that. Just got my front rims today. I took a lot of risks last November when I ordered 2 rear wheels without knowing if and when Rota would make the front wheels again. And to top it of, on that Flat Black color. Well it turned out I got lucky in Feb and they found 2 in 17x8. Then delays in shipping... the guy told me and printed the invoice with Offset 35. I've never heard of 17x7.5 or 17x8 with offset 35, it's always been 48 on these rims. 35 should fit much better. I was freakin thrilled.

I opened to the boxes, checked the markings on the inside of the rims and e48, as I was expecting but didn't want. I was very depressed. I am happy I have 4 wheels the same, but not happy I have to deal with 48s. Now if I want to buy longer studs and use 10mm spacers, now is the time. I already painted my hubs, but not re-assembled on the spindles yet.

The thing is, with 215/40/17 up front, I don't know if I should buy longer studs. I have open lug nuts, so even if the studs are too long, it's not a problem. Maybe I should, cuz if I don't, then it's a pain if I realize I do need 10mm spacers and still have the OEM studs!

What do you think?

[Mechie3]

I went longer studs since its much easier now than later to do studs.

[metalmaker12]

With 48 0ffset you will need 8-10mm spacers so you need studs. This is if you want the wheels to be flush, IMO is the only way to rock this car.

[Pearldrummer7]

How long of a stud did you guys get?

sorry to hijack, Frank

[Frank818]

Tnx guys. That's what I thought.
I am looking into this one http://www.ebay.ca/itm/OEM-HUB-CENTR...bbac38&vxp=mtr

Image In Motion who sent me the wheels is looking with Rota, so until I know for sure what they can do, I'll wait.

ARP studs have a standard length I think, I mean it's part number 100-7716.

[DodgyTim]

I measured the engagement of the wheel nuts with my donor wheels, and had ten turns on the nut fom start to tight
With the standard thread pitch of 1.25 mm that means 12mm or so thread into the nut
Normal engineering rule of thumb is one bolt diameter as a minimum, the studs are M12, so about right.
I wanted to run a 5 mm spacer, so not enough thread into the nut with standard studs, so ended up putting in the Mitsubishi arp's and new open ended Muteki? Nuts

[Frank818]

Ok I have to tell about a company. Image In Motion, located in BC, Canada.

www.imageinmotion.com

I admit if you are in USA you may get cheaper on your side of the border.

But if you are Canadian, and no matter for which hockey team you're a fan of, IIM has great prices, taken into account the US rate + higher shipping when you order from USA.

But the best thing of that place is they have an awesome customer service. In almost 20 years of buying from Internet I have very very rarely seen such a customer service. They do everything to make sure you get what you want.

My front rims, which arrived as offset 48 (by far the most common spec on 17x7.5 and 17x8 5x100 Rota Torque rims), were ordered and paid as offset 35. I thought these didn't exist, at first, but after some search I found out they do exist, but are rare. These guys knew they did exist. But they arrived as e48. Contacted IIM and they offered me 2 choices, have Rota send the right rims and me sending back the e48s or a credit of $50 to buy some spacers from anywhere I want. I asked for the first choice. On the next day, today, Rota has sent the rims! IIM should get them late next week or the week after. So far no charge, even though I have not sent back the e48 rims yet.

Looks like they do have 17x8 5x100 e35 in Flat Black. I will be so happy if I can get them.

All in all, IIM is a great place to get a lot of stuff, not just rims and tires. They have more products than what you find on their website, so don't mind asking!

Canadian818, if you are reading this, you should have bought all your stuff from there, probably 2-3 cities away from you. lolll

[Frank818]

Well I think the BOD worked out!

Here's some parts after 3 coats of anti-rust paint, flat black to match my flat black wheels and matte blue body.

NoRust1.jpg

[Xusia]

VERY sharp, Frank!

[Canadian818]

Canadian818, if you are reading this, you should have bought all your stuff from there, probably 2-3 cities away from you. lolll

Thanks Frank, I still have much more to buy. I had planned to buy my wheels from there, I'll have to get their pricing on pads and rotors as well. They're a big NRG dealer, but I got much better deals south of the border, including free shipping on my hub/tilt/wheel combo.

[Frank818]

Everyone probably remembers Krusty the steering rack.

Rust4.jpg

After complete disassembly, the s**k** got dipped in my BOD, like almost all my other parts.

And with some anti-rust paint, it's ready for a new life:

NoRust2.jpg

The quill is not ready yet, so I have not re-assembled anything, but this is to show that if you were in any way suspicious about the efficiency of a BOD, I honestly think that no krust can resist a well built and used BOD...

[Canadian818]

Hey Frank, what were the tire prices like from IIM? They don't list prices. I need to read some more tire reviews, as they don't sell the federal's I was planning to go with. Tiretrends sells them though, but not the wheels I want.

[Pearldrummer7]

Everyone probably remembers Krusty the steering rack.

Rust4.jpg

After complete disassembly, the s**k** got dipped in my BOD, like almost all my other parts.

And with some anti-rust paint, it's ready for a new life:

NoRust2.jpg

The quill is not ready yet, so I have not re-assembled anything, but this is to show that if you were in any way suspicious about the efficiency of a BOD, I honestly think that no krust can resist a well built and used BOD...

wow! Good as new! Mine only has a little bit of rust, but I might just dump it in the BOD anyway!

Trying calipers tonight in there myself

Keep up the awesome work, Frank!




Frank

[Scargo]

That is rather amazing. She has a lot of acne scars though, but it's what inside that matters. Must be lighter. Nice work.

[Frank818]

Tnx guys!

Yes the acne on it (or orange skin like thing) is cuz there was still some stuff on the housing, didn't look like rust but it was like that. I could have used my dremel to grind everything off to the bare alu, but the few hours of work wasn't worth it. That part no one, not even me, will see the acne once installed and with this anti-rust paint, it should not rust.

Canadian,

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 R (Extreme Performance Summer)
Size: 265/35R18
Price: $416.02 per tire

When I check on Tirerack, they are USD$299, but USD$441 in shipping, taxes and duties! Which bring the total to USD$1040+, compared to CAD$840 at IIM. Of course there is shipping, but it was $95 WITH the rims on.

[Frank818]

Got my deleted parts today for the Canadian kit. Without the BOed parts, of course.

All the deleted parts are worth $1800 at FFR on the kit (all prices in USD).
All in all I paid $2820 to get them. What's the added $1020 for? Nope, not a stand alone ECU, nor a RaceLogic Traction Control, but a mark-up over the FFR US price (don't know who cashed it in), freight in, shipping, taxes and customs.
Put that on your budget, Canadians...

[Frank818]

Hurray!!!!!!! I succeeded! I've beaten the Canadian government! I just got my approval letter to pass through the customs with my kit and not without. After 6 weeks of waiting. Can you believe that. Rarely I've been stressed out like that.

So I don't need to cancel my vacations, my gf's vacations, my truck rental and pick-up date. Phewww...

If anyone reading this is at FFR on Sat morning at 9h, check out for the 18ft long Ryder truck, that's gonna be me.

[Scargo]

That's great. I'm picking up mine the next Saturday (3d).

[Canadian818]

Congrats Frank, have a safe trip.

[Speedy G]

Frank, we're waiting for your pics...

[Frank818]

I'm back from the Factory.

Will have to wait a week or so for pix and videos, they've been taken all over the place with 2 devices, one of them isn't mine. Gotta sort that out too and choose good ones to post.

I admit going to FFR changed my impression of them. It was already excellent, but now I see it as virtually flawless.

For those who had bad body panels, scratches, dents and etc., read below. For you new builders who never went to FFR, read below too. Here's my review of my 2-day trip.


Took 8.5h to drive south to FFR from Montreal. Got many GPS issues on 2 devices and the google maps I have printed didn't show all of it, especially when not taking the main route (and we know there are LOTS of possible routes in USA to go from point A to B). Followed my car/navigation instinct and at some point the GPS came back to life. Hit a lot of traffic cuz there was a bad option selected in the GPS and it drove me right where I didn't want to. Also I hate those big trucks, 18ft, super bad steering response, super springy seats making you jump to the sky on a bump, very bad braking, gran'pa's acceleration, gran'ma's rear view and distance judgment (=bad), very very loud inside the cabin but damn it can fit a lot in the box! lolll

My advice to first time self pick-upers: get at least 18ft. If you don't, you'll find yourself very confined to walk around and may need to make sacrifices to the way you'll stack boxes or something. 17ft is the minimum I would be comfortable with AS A FIRST TIME self pick-uper and FIRST TIME truck driver. But it's easy to drive such a truck.

Now, the FFR factory tour. I wasn't sure to do it, I didn't want to leave too late and arrive home at 9pm. I entered the showroom. Bam... too f late. lolll That place is awesome! When I saw the cars, they looked like cars from normal big car manufacturers! That didn't look like a raw and cheap build/finish at all! I saw the R, it's so small!! Just like I want! And MUCH better looking in person! Once I finished taking pix of the 818 prototype for showroom and realized how low you sit on that car (awesome), we started the tour with Joe. After that tour, I now understood a lot better how it is at FFR, how they work, what they aim for, the quality of their products, the control, the build from bare metal, everything... My advice to first time visitor who are unsure of taking the tour: shut up and take the tour!! loll You don't have time? Take it!! No excuses are good enough to not take it!

Joe is awesome. That guy needs to be paid 1 million a year. Customer-wise flawless as well. Always smiling, always happy. That guy certainly kicks up the value of FFR to my eyes. If FFR gets bigger with time, I hope they won't lose that proximity with the customer. Don't do that, you'll destroy everything.
The other guy who helped me load the kit was super helpful too! I don't know what drug Dave puts in the vending machines, but it sure is a good one to keep them happy and smiling! loll

Seriously, after that FFR tour, my impression of FFR changed and has gone up pretty much, even though it was excellent before. Tnx for that Joe, if ever you are reading this.

Touching my kit was mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lolll

Now on the body panels. I've read a lot about people having bad panels, scratched, dented, with grass inside, etc. There's nothing on mines! No scratch! For most people using them as is would be perfect, the gelcoat finish is beyond my expectations. I have one small dent on the left hump besides the driver's head, but it's super easy to fix. Otherwise, nothing at all. If I take care of them and prevent them from changing shape over time before I install them, I believe I'll have not much to do in repairs and finish. I am not saying adjustments to make the panels fit flush, I am saying repairs to allow a good paint or wrap. So far it seems perfect for that. I'll see with time.

Took 7.5h from FFR to Montreal, in rain ALL the time. Flawless at the Canadian border. 15mins, paid taxes and off I went.

[Frank818]

My chassis #: 181.

I thought I would end up with something insignificant to me, like #173. But 181 is 818 with inverted numbers.

[Canadian818]

Congrats frank! Now the fun begins. Many of us have been looking forward to your build, this thread is about to take off...

[wleehendrick]

My chassis #: 181.

I thought I would end up with something insignificant to me, like #173. But 181 is 818 with inverted numbers.

That's cool! Now you just need to adjust your diet so you weigh 181lbs so both numbers represent weight.

[Frank818]

My steering rack quill (or whatever you call that thing) once welded:

Attachment 28423

I now have a fully manual, without any play, steering rack. Just need to re-assemble what's left of it.

[Frank818]

Wow, I just calculated my pick-up costs and they are low!! I did the right decision by picking-up the kit and I could see the factory as well, priceless.

I have gone through my boxes and I think I am missing 2 parts. A U nut, which is nothing, and something else. But I cannot identify what it is cuz I can't identify the following 5 parts:

In Box 6
I have these 5 items left, but I have 6 items unchecked left.

What are each of them referring to or which one am I missing?

80526 Fuse panel mount front
80527 Fuse panel mount rear
80579 Shifter trim plate
80511 Power booster cover plate
80555 Rear turn signal template
80601 Fuel pump hanger

Missing part.jpg

[wleehendrick]

Left to right, the first two are:

80511 Power booster cover plate

80555 Rear turn signal template

I'm pretty sure the middle is 80601 Fuel pump hanger, but I used the Boyd tank, so didn't need it.

I believe the last two are: 80526 Fuse panel mount front and 80527 Fuse panel mount rear

[Frank818]

I love this forum, you get an answer in a split of a second.

Tnx for that, so I might be missing the shifter trim plate.

Interesting cuz I have what looks like a shifter trim plate and it has #80824, which I can't find in my POL. I'll take a pic of that and send to Joe.

[Frank818]

I'm happy to announce that Joe thinks I am the first customer to receive a new FFR part.

Indeed, it's not on the parts list. On the other hand, I don't think it's a major upgrade, just tweaking.

#80824

http://uppix.com/f-2014_04_30_20_185361981400164165.jpg

Apparently, this part used to be 2 alu pieces before and is now one. This explains why I am missing 80579 and have 80824 which is not listed.

To chassis #182+, keep an eye on your parts vs packlist, especially for 80579 vs 80824.

[Frank818]

Hum, interesting, the manual shows a big difference between FFR's chassis and mine.

This is FFR's chassis, you see the 2 steel plates with big holes and one triangular welded from the bottom up (or top down, same thing ).

Front FW-FFR-1.jpeg

Well I don't have these at all. My 2 panels with 2 big holes in them have no steel plate to sit on.

Front FW-1.jpgFront FW-2.jpg

Anyone has a chassis like mine?
Or am I missing the steel plates?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hum, interesting, the manual shows a big difference between FFR's chassis and mine.

This is FFR's chassis, you see the 2 steel plates with big holes and one triangular welded from the bottom up (or top down, same thing ).

Front FW-FFR-1.jpeg

Well I don't have these at all. My 2 panels with 2 big holes in them have no steel plate to sit on.

Front FW-1.jpgFront FW-2.jpg

Anyone has a chassis like mine?
Or am I missing the steel plates?

Frank
Manual revision 1i covered this change.
Do you have the metal plate shown in this picture?
I suspect one plate for Subaru master cylinders and on for Wilwood double cylinders.
Bob

pedal box.jpg

[Frank818]

Manual revision 1i covered this change.

I don't think so, 1i is the one FFR printed out for me.

Do you have the metal plate shown in this picture?

pedal box.jpg

Ha that's why it's different (though it doesn't explain why my 1i is different than yours). I can't recall having that plate but I'll take a look in my boxes.

Whether I have it or not, it explains the differences between the manual and my chassis.

Tnx Bob

I don't have it in my POL!
I'll dig in my boxes.

[Frank818]

Ok well the printed manual 1i FFR provided me is not the 1i version.

I checked the 1i REVISION update and the correction is on that one. But not the full 1i FFR provided me. Maybe I could miss other things, so I will print out all revisions Bob kindly sent to me.

Besides, I have asked another pair of eyes to look for that part and she found it. In the 8F box. It<s not called PEDAL BOX MOUNT as I could expect, but CABLE PEDAL MOUNT, which explains why I didn't find it on the POL. The latter is on the POL and in my 8F box.

Now let's finish that front FW.

[Pearldrummer7]

Wilwood double cylinders.

Wow, double cylinders for the Wilwoods, eh? What's the reason for a second cylinder?



-Frank

[Mechie3]

You can use a balance bar to adjust brake bias instead of a proportioning valve. Also, if one cylinder fails completely you have a second so you're not completely without brakes as you try to limp back to the pits.

[STiPWRD]

Frank, I have the same cable pedal mount with my kit. The rev update didn't specify hardware so I used the 10-32 pan head screws and lock nuts since there was a big bag of them. It is sort of surprising that FFR didn't incorporate this update into the rev I full manual.

[longislandwrx]

The holes in the pedal and assembly were bigger, so I used the larger pan head bolt... which fit perfect. However when I tightened it all up I could see the head was deforming the firewall on the bottom, so I switched the bottom one out for a 10-32 with washers.

Worked like a charm.

[Pearldrummer7]

You can use a balance bar to adjust brake bias instead of a proportioning valve. Also, if one cylinder fails completely you have a second so you're not completely without brakes as you try to limp back to the pits.

Ah, makes sense. Thank you for the explanation!