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Thread: The Start of a Journey - Metros Build Thread

  1. #441
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    I need to get back to work on mine. Haven't touched it in about 2 years now. :/
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
    Check out my new website!
    www.zerodecibelmotorsports.com
    www.facebook.com/zero.decibel.motorsports

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  3. #442
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Checking off a few little things as spring arrives.

    Adjusted ride height. Front raised a bit, rear lowered a bit. Still working on adjusting the alignment to get it within reason prior to getting it inspected. Also adjusted the e-brake so that it'll hold firmly now.

    Longacre toe plates




    Have a bubble gauge to look at camber.

    Broke down and bought a bumpsteer gauge as the 818 is especially susceptible to bumpsteer. Have a kit to get it closer to 0. Going to measure stock first and then add spacers until it's as close to 0 as possible.



    Picked up a Burns muffler and plan to route it out the back right side instead of up high center. That change should keep most of the exhaust smell out of the car.



    Heat ring to protect the fiberglass around the exhaust exit.



    Spring has brought about some nice driving days!

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  5. #443
    Moonlight Performance
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    Great job on pulling the trigger on a bump steer gauge. INVALUABLE tool! Made such a huge difference for my 818. Expect to spend a lot of time with it though. But it's worth it.

  6. #444
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    I'm curious to see how thick your bump steer spacers will be for optimum bump steer reduction. Are you running the pinto studs?

  7. #445
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Yes, using the pinto parts. Hindsight measured his to 46mm if I remember correctly. So I'm using that as guesstimate of where I'll end up. But we'll see. I've got the toe cleared up, that was way off. Next going to look at camber to the best of my ability. Then bump.

  8. #446
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    I didn't end up using the Pinto parts - I used the Baer kit for the Subaru. So the 46mm I measured was the thickness of the shim stack, but that factors in a lot of things like the taper bolt you use (where it's shoulder is) and the thickness of the rod-end that the taper bolt connects to. I think my 46mm measurement is only going to work if using the exact hardware I did (Baer Subaru kit).

  9. #447
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    This my final setup using the Subaru BAER kit.
    I had a bunch of other special things in my front suspension. So I don't think anyone should copy this.
    Bob
    P1050880c.jpg
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  10. #448
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Hindsight, what was your ride height?

    Bob, how thick is your spacer from the ball joint to the shoulder on the stud? Looks like ~1" from the photo.

    Thanks for sharing, I'm also trying to get a good starting point. I had my tapers machined down such that there is just about 1mm before the hex bottoms out on the spindle.

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  12. #449
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STiPWRD View Post
    Bob, how thick is your spacer from the ball joint to the shoulder on the stud?
    STiPWRD,
    My 818 is in my garage and not at my shop. So I wasn't able to take an accurate measurement.
    Please note again. I have other front end suspension mods so YRMV.

    spacer.jpg


    Another note about the above picture. I'm using a 2012 5MT transmission. It doesn't have a VSS. So i'm using a prox sensor on the front wheel cv joint. Works great for a couple of years so far.

    On a good note, my front tire (235/40-17) wear is looking good for at least 2 or 3 track weekends this summer. I estimate 40% of tread left. On my last set I ran them until they were slicks.

    front left tire.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 04-06-2019 at 12:45 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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  14. #450
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Still wrapping up a few odds n ends on the car. Really just have one major hurdle before I can register the car/get it inspected.

    Installed license plate lights for the rear. Also installed dual hella horns and the all important rear view mirror. These are all minor things but important for inspection time.





    The alignment is now mostly finished. Toe/camber are within reason for my simple garage tools. Still working on bumpsteer. The gauge I've got isn't really cooperating. Going to give it another go before buttoning things up.



    The last major hurdle I need to fall over is the exhaust. It's curretly routed straight out the back. But this leads to smelling like exhaust after driving the car. I have finally acquired all the tools/supplies to route this how I'd prefer. Just need some time to acquaint myself with my AHP welder. The good thing is that there is minimal obstructions to work around within the space. Good for a first timer.




  15. #451
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    I have had the same gauge for years what are you having issues with, maybe I can assist.

  16. #452
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    I'm leaning the arm against the plate bolted to the hub as shown. When I Jack the suspension up the digital dial gauge isn't changing or reading the input it receives. Could just be the actual gauge itself.

  17. #453
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    What's your bumpsteer gauge brand? Looks like same as Jeff's and his was working fine I believe.

    Can you use it for the rear as well and will you use it for the rear?

    If someday you want to sell that gauge, I'll be a buyer, assuming the gauge works once you know how to make it work. If you think the gauge is not much of quality then I'll pass.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  18. #454
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Figured out the bumpsteer gauge issue. I attached a manual spring loaded dial gauge and it worked beautifully. Something in the digital gauge just wasn't working correctly. The alignment is about as good as I can get it in my garage. The ride height is much better - had to raise the front a bit and lower the rear a bit to get it right.

    Almost have my updated 818 exhaust all tacked up. Just need to finish the tip and punch a hole in the fiberglass. Going to need to find a heat barrier to keep the fiberglass protected. Quick question, now that I have a cat - should I put the o2 sensor before or after the cat?


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  20. #455
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Nice looking exhaust!

    I'd put the O2 before the cat, usually the sensor should be as close as the exhaust ports as possible I think for quicker reading response and/or better accuracy.

    If you put 2 sensors then 1 before and 1 after the cat.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  21. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    Nice looking exhaust!

    I'd put the O2 before the cat, usually the sensor should be as close as the exhaust ports as possible I think for quicker reading response and/or better accuracy.
    Not true, I believe ~a foot away is ideal but obviously not possible in this case. Look at the major brands, cobb etc, none of them are as close to the flange as possible.
    Factory Five 818c #456

  22. #457
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    It's interesting, there are some variances between brands. A Cobb catted downpipe has an o2 sensor after the cat and far away. Another brand has two bungs, one before cat right at the bellmouth and one after the cat far away. Seems it could go either way. I'm going to let my tuner recommend where it belongs.

    Finished the tip today and punched a hole through the fiberglass for it. Very happy with its placement and looking forward to hearing what it sounds like.

  23. #458
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metros View Post
    Another brand has two bungs, one before cat right at the bellmouth and one after the cat far away.
    I suspect that the one right after the bellmouth is for the EGT. I have heard that the OEM location right before the turbo can break off the tip of the EGT and destroy the turbo.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  24. #459
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    To settle the debate - my tuner recommended after the cat. He reported that the bung right at the bellmouth is typically used for a wideband meter.

    Cut out the front vents for my ZDB vents today. Can't wait to see it with all the vents installed. I think it will be a significant increase in aggressive appearance.

  25. #460
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Time for an update!

    The exhaust system has been tacked together and taken to MachVMotorsports to be finish welded. To continue putting in the time learning I would have likely had to wait until Fall to finish welding this. Having MachV finish it up will get me on the road faster.



    Sneak peak of the exit. Going to wait until I receive it back to open up the hole fully. That way if it pulls in any direction while welding I can cheat the opening in that direction.



    After dropping that off with Mach V I turned my attention to the body vents. Goodbye speed holes, hello fast vents! Made good progress on this over the long holiday weekend when I was able to steal some time.

    These will be mounted beneath the body panels with only the fins poking up through the body hole. They all need to be sent to powdercoating before final install, but this is the preview.







    This is the further rear top panel. This isn't over the engine, but allows heat from the rear of the car to exit. This is how all of these vents will be mounted.





    I have two more vent panels to mount. One is the rear end of the car and the other set is for the humps behind the passengers - directly over the engine.

    These are going to really make the appearance of this car much more aggressive. Can't wait to hear this exhaust system!

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  27. #461
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Got back at it this weekend after getting back from vacation. It was a bit toasty in the garage but I still was able to get some forward progress.

    Picked up the fully welded exhaust system from MachV. Welds look good and it only budged a tiny bit from the original positioning. Cut out the exhaust punch out, fitted the heat ring, and installed heat protection inside the body next to the exhaust system.

    Cut out the final body vent openings in the humps behind the passengers. Now I'm ready to send all of the vents for powder coating.







    Going to officially register this during this week! I'm hoping to get to the DMV sometime during the week and have the inspection done over the weekend. So excited!

  28. #462
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    Looking good!

  29. #463
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Good luck! Fingers crossed

  30. #464
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Got my car registered and insured this week. Also dropped off the ZDB louvers for powdercoat. It was nice putting some miles on it and I tweaked the alignment a touch more which resulted in nice road tracking, very responsive to steering input, and maintained straight tracking over bumps. It was glorious.

    Then my excitement was kicked in the balls and shoved in a garbage can.

    Took my son out for a ride this morning. Stopped to fill up and when leaving the gas station felt it more difficult to engage 1st gear smoothly/nicely. I got up to 2nd gear and it was making some noise. Started to look for a place to pull over for inspection and the rear wheels locked up in the middle of the street. Put it in first and limped it into a school parking lot. Nothing looked out of place so got in to try to limp it home. Made it the 5 or 10 miles.

    Further inspection reveals carnage in the trans fluid.



    Finished pulling the transmission in 3.5 hours. Mostly spent time moving things out of the way to make it doable by one person.



    Going to take it to Andrewtech to be addressed. On the bright side there may be an LSD in my future. If the trans is already going to be split, this would be a good 'opportunity'.

    This was this morning.

  31. #465
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Dropped off with Andrew yesterday and he has had an opportunity for an initial tear down. The output shaft bearing is confirmed as the failure, which spread metal throughout the case. He's going to need to further tear things down to give everything a thorough evaluation of damage. Below are the pictures that he sent my way.

    Good news is that he did confirm the 1-4 helical ppg gears. I bought this transmission used, so it's always good to confirm that what you bought was what was advertised even though it had documentation to go along with it. Seeing is believing.

    Pics - I've been zooming in on these as much as possible to see if I can see any confirmed damage to the gears. Hard to really tell from a picture without being able to look from different angles. First pic, top right corner there may be some damage.




  32. #466
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Worthy of mention, I've been impressed by the support that forum members have sent my way. I've even had some share some really good deals for potential replacements. A blown transmission isn't the most fun I've ever had. But there has been some genuine kindness shown. Thanks all!

  33. #467
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    I've received back official word from Andrew regarding my transmission. It definitely had PPG helical gears in it. I bought it used, so you never really know without seeing inside. Unfortunately the key word is had.

    The bearing at the back of the output shaft failed catastrophically. That sent metal throughout the transmission and ate gears 2-5. 1 is likely still usable but evidently they have to be paired 1/2 and 3/4. I'm not the most familiar with the inner workings of a transmission. It might as well be magic.

    Still waiting to see prices of different options for ppg gears vs gears from a 2010 5-speed. Then considering adding a torsion style 'front' diff.

    I've asked to keep the gears. They'll need to be worked into the build decor in some way.

  34. #468
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Picked up the louvers from powder coat this week. Came out really good and the price at NJ Sullivan was better than the place I was working with previously.

    Also polished/buffed the front end. The fenders had been wet sanded when working out the cast lines. So they had a matte appearance prior to my work this weekend. Added a lot of shine back. Polished the hood as well. Really brightened the appearance up. I'll need to do the same for the rest of the car to get it where it should be.







    Had the wheels off already so I cleaned them up nicely while I was at it.


  35. #469
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Happy to see someone has got all the ZDB louvers just like me.

    There's a lot of place to work in that engine bay, I envy you.
    You can remove the gearbox without pulling out the engine, I envy you as well! loll

    Tnx for the idea of removing the rear bumper without the wheel wells, never thought of that, or that it was possible, but in truth yes it should work! You just saved me a bit of time and storage place for next time.

    Congrats on the plate, although it does not look very nice up front but hey the law is the law.
    Looks like you too are having issues after driving the car, I know what it is!!!!!!!! And I should spend more time reading other's issues to see I'm not the only one, but I'm always spending all my time trying to fix mine.

    In the end did you understand what happened so that that bearing failed?

    I also keep my broken up parts and put them somewhere in the decor. You've seen my bent valve already, that'll go up on display soon.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  36. #470
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Yes, I still need to create a bracket for the front plate. Those plates are paper while awaiting my custom plates. Gorilla tape in a pinch.

    I don't have an answer as to the why regarding the bearing failure. Per Andrew, that bearing failure is not common.

    I think the ZDB louvers make a huge difference in the appearance of the car. Betting others will join in once they see some more cars with them.

  37. #471
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metros View Post
    I think the ZDB louvers make a huge difference in the appearance of the car.
    Totally agree!
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  38. #472
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    A bung after the cat is usually a EPA only sensor to be able to say the CAT is still working which is required on newer cars. This O2 sensor usually has to be coded out because they throw codes as especially stage 2 tunes which include downpipe usually throw codes. The O2 sensor is usually as close to the turbo outlet as possible. The egt is located in the pipe from your headers.

  39. #473
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Got the 818 buttoned back up with newly rebuilt transmission from Andrew.

    This was the bearing that failed. See below how the rollers are all lined up nicely, that's how it should look.



    This is the other side of that bearing which should look symmetrical. These are falling out, sideways, and several are missing. This is what spewed into my transmission.



    Unfortunately all 5 gears had to be replaced and a few other odds n ends. The 1st gear PPG was salvageable, but with having to replace the 2nd gear - it didn't have a dance partner.

    I have quite the fancy pencil holder for work that I like to talk about with people who don't generally care.

    During this downtime I have polished the nose of the car. Sanded out a lot of fiberglass form marks in the gelcoat. Need to polish out the rear end to get the gloss back. Also installed the rear diffuser. Once I have the rear end polished out I can finish installing the rear grate and last of the louvers.




  40. #474
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    You fitted the rear diffiuser about sticking out as mine, how far fwd does it go underneath? Up to the point of reaching the under engine belly pan?
    Last edited by Frank818; 09-01-2019 at 07:10 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  41. #475
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    That's one of the few panels I have yet to install. Need to put in the panel that closes the rear hump opening to the engine. So I can't really answer that question. It does go up to mid transmission.

  42. #476
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    I found out if you stick out the diffuser too much, like I wanted (that thing won't rub on the ground like the front splitter), you end up with a gap between the front of the diffuser and the rear of the belly pan. There truly is a maximum stick out on the diffuser if you want to keep things fully closed underneath.

    But I think not too many people fitted the belly pan, in my case I found out it gets a lot more dusty in the engine bay without that pan.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  43. #477
    Senior Member Hobby Racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    I found out if you stick out the diffuser too much, like I wanted (that thing won't rub on the ground like the front splitter), you end up with a gap between the front of the diffuser and the rear of the belly pan. There truly is a maximum stick out on the diffuser if you want to keep things fully closed underneath.
    The trick is to fab a small section to close the gap between the two.



    Build thread with the underpan details.
    MK3.1 Roadster completed 2011
    818R built with EZ36R H6 completed 2018
    818R rebuild with a JDM Honda K24A

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  45. #478
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Congrats on getting the transmission back! The gelcoat polish looks pretty good. I just got my plates today actually, we'll have to do a cruise sometime or maybe cars and coffee?

  46. #479
    Senior Member metros's Avatar
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    Congrats! We definitely should. I was thinking about a cars n coffee sometime in the next month or so.

  47. #480
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    Both of you need to come and play at Dominion’s road course with me and let’s see what those things have in them. Once you hit the track you won’t need any coffee and there are plenty of cars to pass. Lol

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