MRG MotorSports 818S Build

[Hindsight]

Cool, looking forward to pics of that setup. Were you getting high oil temps on the track?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, for future oil cooler needs might think about a water to oil cooler in the coolant hose back to the radiator. Very compact easy to mount and have found them effective on past projects.

Hi Mitch,
My SBC in my boat uses a oil to lake water cooler. works very well.
Marine application may even be more severe than racing. We often are WOT for 1/2 hour straight.

My thought was that 190 degree coolant wasn't going to cool 210 degree oil very much.
I have a very cool awic loop. But I didn't want to touch that.
I real don't want to add third loop.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Cool, looking forward to pics of that setup. Were you getting high oil temps on the track?

When we lost our engine bearings, we were on the track.
We did not have gauges or data log on oil pressure or oil temp. So we are speculating that oil got to hot.
We were data logging ECU stuff. It coolant stayed between 190f and 203f during the 1/2 hour session. The maf/ait air intake temp was 94F to 98F.
Bob

[DSR-3]

My thought was that 190 degree coolant wasn't going to cool 210 degree oil very much. -
When we lost our engine bearings, we were on the track.
We did not have gauges or data log on oil pressure or oil temp. So we are speculating that oil got to hot.
We were data logging ECU stuff. It coolant stayed between 190f and 203f during the 1/2 hour session. The maf/ait air intake temp was 94F to 98F.
Bob

Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

I didn't find any Setrab oil to water type.

I am looking at a Mercruiser unit used on a 502 big block engine.
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/807372t-cooler-oil

Genuine Mercruiser is $375, knock offs made in USA are $135.

Would you put this in the hose going to the radiator or from the radiator?
Bob

[JeromeS13]

I didn't find any Setrab oil to water type.

I am looking at a Mercruiser unit used on a 502 big block engine.
http://www.mercruiserparts.com/807372t-cooler-oil

Genuine Mercruiser is $375, knock offs made in USA are $135.

Would you put this in the hose going to the radiator or from the radiator?
Bob

I would plumb it from the lower radiator hose (cold side). Those temps should be much, much lower than the upper (hot) side.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I would plumb it from the lower radiator hose (cold side). Those temps should be much, much lower than the upper (hot) side.

What is the highest temp number I should see coming out of the radiator?

We are taking a week off of working on the 818 to play with one of our other toys. 350CI 260PHP


first time out this summer.
Bob

[Frank818]

We are taking a week off of working on the 818 to play with one of our other toys. 350CI 260PHP

The truck, yes!

[JeromeS13]

What is the highest temp number I should see coming out of the radiator?

Honestly, I have no idea. The ECU only sees the coolant temp at the hottest part of the motor (right before going INTO the radiator). I've never looked into seeing if anyone has added a sensor post-radiator.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Honestly, I have no idea. The ECU only sees the coolant temp at the hottest part of the motor (right before going INTO the radiator). I've never looked into seeing if anyone has added a sensor post-radiator.

I think having an temp sensor on rad output is best way to determine if we have sufficient cooling system.

Frank 260 php Is prop horse power.

[lance corsi]

Bob, I've never heard of boat horsepower being expressed as php. Did you take your boat to a boat dyno? Lol!

[UnhipPopano]

See page 40 => http://oa.upm.es/14340/2/Documentaci...-Hand-Book.pdf

Another nautical term that is used is Shaft HP.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, I've never heard of boat horsepower being expressed as php. Did you take your boat to a boat dyno? Lol!

260hp-mercruiser-dyno-test.gif

I do know that at full throttle, it uses more than a gallon be minute at 50 mph.
I made up prop HP. Before this project I've never heard of WHP.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, for future oil cooler needs might think about a water to oil cooler in the coolant hose back to the radiator. Very compact easy to mount and have found them effective on past projects.

Better get some numbers to start with, because if the oil is at 210 peak it's already "cool enough". Pressure logs are the first order. Definitely consider the oil to water heat exchanger as Mitch suggested if you need a cooler. I've seen lot's of creative attempts to locate and duct oil/air coolers, and even much larger ones weren't as efficient & consistent as the o/w types. Setrab units are very nice. Also, working with the air moving down the side of a car can be quite challenging and inefficient, and consider the importance of the exit ducting as well.

Thanks Mitch and DSR-3
I took your advice and got a water to oil heat exchanger.
I also got a oil pressure and oil temp sensor working with my data logger. (tgv delete inputs)
While doing that, I also moved my AIT sensor to post awic cooler.
Bob

20160817_213645c.jpg 20160817_213450c.jpg

[Frank818]

Bob, are you the one who blew up a couple of LED turn/reverse signal bulbs? I recall reading someone who couldn't find how to wire the positive and negative cuz it's not labeled and he blew a couple up.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, are you the one who blew up a couple of LED turn/reverse signal bulbs? I recall reading someone who couldn't find how to wire the positive and negative cuz it's not labeled and he blew a couple up.

That was probably me. (good memory)
Right now I'm running incandescent bulbs, with a standard pattern. (clear bulb is reverse only)
I will switch my brake/tail bulbs to LED for safety. In the video you can see how much faster the high center bulb is.
Bob
https://youtu.be/SOJUZ8jr6MI

[Frank818]

Yeah, that 3rd brake light really is faster to light up.

Do you know what you did to blow those FFR LED bulbs?
I'm asking cuz I tested both bulbs on a shelf, working fine, then I hook up the wires and lenses, test them on the car and one has blown reverse chips. I'm sure about that cuz I swapped lenses and connectors and always the same not working and the other one always working. I was wondering what you did to blow them up. They seem very sensitive to something I don't know.

[Mitch Wright]

Bob, off topic but was thinking about you guys. Has Michael started collage?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, off topic but was thinking about you guys. Has Michael started collage?

Mike will be going to school months 4,5 6,10,11,12 then co-op 1,2,3 7,8,9. for the next 4 years. A least that is the plan.
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yeah, that 3rd brake light really is faster to light up.

Do you know what you did to blow those FFR LED bulbs?
I'm asking cuz I tested both bulbs on a shelf, working fine, then I hook up the wires and lenses, test them on the car and one has blown reverse chips. I'm sure about that cuz I swapped lenses and connectors and always the same not working and the other one always working. I was wondering what you did to blow them up. They seem very sensitive to something I don't know.

Reverse polarity will blow them in an instant. Some bulbs are diode protected from reverse polarity. These were not.
Bob

[Frank818]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...

You probably had them connected like this:

Car ---------------------- bulb
turn ------------------------ turn
reverse--------------------- ground
ground--------------------- reverse

[STiPWRD]

Then how could it blow up only the backup chips and not the turn signal. That's a world I never understood...

Frank, is your hazard switch plugged in? If not, some of the reverse lights may not get power. I can't remember if you rewired everything or are using the subaru harness.

[Frank818]

Swapping the ground and reverse would also blow up the turn if it'd blow up the reverse, as it's a common ground.
But after all that's ok cuz a replacement LED bulb can be found for cheap so I guess it's less costly to buy a replacement than spend hours trying to figure out. loll It just tells me that they seem sensitive when you start working with them.

No Subaru harness at all. Independent Infinity Box system which controls hazards by the computer (a virtual button on my tablet and phones). They work perfectly btw.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I listened to some of the suggestion on here and decided to go with the liquid/liquid oil cooler and the remote oil filter.
This first picture is the is the oil filter mount to the post behind the driver.
The mounting plate has 4 ports. I used them for oil in, oil out, oil pressure sensor and oil temperature sensor.
The 2 sensors are wired into my ECU for logging and Dash board display.

oil cooler and filter.jpg

At the bottom of the above picture you can see the liguid/liquid heat exchanger. I also added a sensor to measure the coolant temperature out of the radiator. The cold side of the radiator is cooling the oil before it goes back into the engine. Here is a picture of the heat exchanger form the bottom side of the engine.

marine cooler.jpg

I used a canton block to get the oil out of the block. Here is another picture form the underside of the engine.

canton block.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I are going to do a dry sump system.
We are going to connect the tank directly to the bottom of the oil pump.
Does any one know if somebody makes an oil pick up tube block off plate???
Thanks
Bob

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I posted this on the818R forum, but also wanted on my build thread.

Below is the sketch of my new oiling system after losing my engine last month.

Can anyone recommend an inline vacuum regulator/relief valve?
Thanks
Bob

[Aero STI]

That diagram makes the system look elegant. I would like to see the complete parts list at some point.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Today, Michael and I did our first start on our second engine.
The car now has remote oil filter and oil cooling.
Better data logging capability and dash display.

Soon to be added, Equal length headers and catless up-pipe.
Soon to be added: Dry sump system.

I didn't take a video, but here is a screen shot off the dash display.



My oil pressure is red because it was zero at start up. right now my pressure sensor is at the filter. I should probably move it to the rear galley port.
I aslo just noticed the my 2 year old ATV battery dropped to 7.7 volts during starting. Probably time to replace it.
Bob

[STiPWRD]

Bob, could you please post how you modified the logger definitions file to read the oil pressure sensor? I think I'm using the same approach and sensor you are.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, could you please post how you modified the logger definitions file to read the oil pressure sensor? I think I'm using the same approach and sensor you are.

STiPWARD,
I take it that you are using rom raider as your logger.
I'm using BTSSM to created a new field for oil temp and oil pressure.
Then assigned the TGV addresses to those fields. 0x00033 and 0x00034 if I remember correctly.
For pressure the table was simple 0.5v=0psi and 4.5v=100 psi.
Temperature was a lot more complicated table as the feedback wasn't linear.
PM me and we can do an online meeting to discuss in depth.
Bob

[Frank818]

Throttle pedal 8%? Come on Bob, step on it! lollll

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Michael and I were on our way home from the golf coarse tonight (I won). We saw and interesting car we had to stop and take some pictures.
bmw2.jpg bmw3.jpg bmw1.jpg

First one to tell us about this car without using the internet will earn the title: BKA
BMW King Aficionado

[flynntuna]

BMW Z8. Can't say what year.

[wleehendrick]

Yup, Z8; the first I've seen with a hardtop on. There are a couple in my area. Absolutely stunning, classic roadster lines with the top down:



It's hard to believe that the same designer, Chris Bangle, is also responsible for the monstrosity that is the 7-series "bangle-butt":

[RM1SepEx]

Why couldn't they have made the Z3 look like this vs a cartoon car?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

It's hard to believe that the same designer, Chris Bangle, is also responsible for the monstrosity that is the 7-series

I was reading that Henrik Fisker was the designer.
Here is the 2011 Fisker Karma Hybrid.

[Mechie3]

There used to be a silver Z8 parked in the circle in downtown indy. Hasn't been there since the owner was put in prison in 2012 for 50 years for defrauding people of $216million. He also had a bugatti he parked downtown. I mean, I'd have tons of cool cars if I had $216 million of other peoples money to spend too!

[wleehendrick]

I was reading that Henrik Fisker was the designer.
Here is the 2011 Fisker Karma Hybrid.

I've always loved Henrick Fisker's work; he was the exterior designer on the Z8, but Bangle was stated as the lead. Given Bangle's other work, yeah, I think Fisker probably had more to do with how good the Z8 looks.

[ben1272]

I am not a fan of Bangle's work. I heard there is a (derogatory?) term for a car that has had its trunk stretch upwards (as was the fad not long ago)......its been 'bangled'.

I've always loved Henrick Fisker's work; he was the exterior designer on the Z8, but Bangle was stated as the lead. Given Bangle's other work, yeah, I think Fisker probably had more to do with how good the Z8 looks.