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Thread: MRG MotorSports 818S Build

  1. #81
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Looks like a good excuse to buy a tig welder!

  2. #82
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I may cut it off straight, shorten the shaft and make up my own shaft seal. It looks like a straight band saw cut and then fixture to the Bridgeport to flatten it out. It would require a differnt setup for the shifter cables... I'd like to have some sort of structure behind the trans, supporting the body as a "bumper" We will see, back to work after I return from the BMW meeting in Dallas this weekend. Anyone working on an 818 in the Dallas/Ft Worth area?
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  3. #83
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    The screen shots bob has are actually of a trans made by someone oThee than subarugears. Its custom made for a samba. He sells a kit on a one by one basis.
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
    Check out my new website!
    www.zerodecibelmotorsports.com
    www.facebook.com/zero.decibel.motorsports

  4. #84
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Help me decide on ECU.

    I have been investigating for a long time which ECU to use.
    Please help me decide.

    My engine:
    2004 forester xt engine EJ255
    4 OEM fuel injectors, possible bigger in future
    4 OEM ignition coils
    DBW Drive by wire throttle
    TGV, will delete
    MAP Sensor
    MAF Sensor
    AIT sensor
    EGT Sensor
    PCV Sensor
    2 AVCS valves on intake cam
    2 cam angle sensors
    knock sensor
    Crank sensor
    front & rear O2 sensors
    fuel tank emissions control, deleted
    Air conditioner control, deleted
    cruise control, deleted
    multi speed radiator fan control
    variable speed fuel pump control
    Waste gate control
    TD04 turbo, probable upgrade
    catted up pipe, will upgrade
    catted downpipe, will upgrade

    My four choices are:
    Opensource - romraider
    Cobb Accessport
    AEM 30-6820 plug and play
    Link G4+ V10
    other

    I did not list VCP TEC-s because I don't believe it has all the features to run this engine.

    I don't need a plug and play as wiring changes are acceptable.

    Please give me your opinion one which you would use on an 818S autocross / track day car.
    Thanks In Advance, Bob

  5. #85
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    I'll always vote for the Cobb Accessport.
    818S - #67 (SOLD IT!)
    Delivered: 18 November 2013
    Go Karted: 29 December 2013
    Titled/Registered: 28 March 2014
    Finished: NEVER!
    341 hp @ 4844 RPM / 389 tq @ 3717 RPM

  6. #86
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Hey Bob,

    I recall some knowledgeable, professional tuners saying that nothing will run the engine as well as the stock ECU. Considering you can completely change the ROM on the stock ECU (I'm planning on using Carberry), it seems the really obvious choice. The only real downside, in fact, is having to diet the harness.

    EDIT: RomRaider and Cobb AccessPort aren't really ECUs. They work with the stock ECU. Both work well and have their plusses and minuses. In addition, as I mention above, you can go custom ROM and get a LOT of additional functions.
    Last edited by Xusia; 03-13-2014 at 12:24 PM.

  7. #87
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Stock ecu with an open source tune is always the best solution on a subaru because they work very reliably. There may be other fancy options on the aftermarket world, but I have never seen a oem ecu act up like some aftermarket ones.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Carpet Issue

    The first donor I bought we are going to keep as a daily driver for Michael.
    towing2.jpg
    The carpet was worn out. So we took the carpet out of our second donor to fix this car.
    Turns out the Michael is extremely allergic to the dog dander carpet that his eyes are swelling shut while driving this car. I tried shampooing but no help.
    Does someone have a decent black carpet out of a 06-07 donor they would part with for a reasonable price.
    Thanks
    Bob and Mike

  9. #89
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    Hi guys, My donor was an 06 WRX wagon. Let me check my parts stash and see if I can find it. If I find it and it works for you, it is yours for the cost of shipping. Rick(Drd Racing)

  10. #90
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I'm going Cobb for my 05 WRX donor build
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  11. #91
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdracing View Post
    Hi guys, My donor was an 06 WRX wagon. Let me check my parts stash and see if I can find it. If I find it and it works for you, it is yours for the cost of shipping. Rick(Drd Racing)
    Hi Rick,
    Any luck finding that carpet. PM sent.
    Bob

  12. #92
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Hey bob, I have carpet and mats from an 07 sedan. They're like new, the entire interior was. It yours for a hard copy of your first book plus shipping

    And as for ECU, I agree on the Tec not being ideal for a subaru. After some research I decided on AEM. Their new ecu is quite impressive hardware and will run everything you need. Wayne is also a dealer, I case you didn't want to make a harness...but something tells me your not afraid of wiring.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  13. #93
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian818 View Post
    Hey bob, I have carpet and mats from an 07 sedan. They're like new, the entire interior was. It yours for a hard copy of your first book plus shipping

    And as for ECU, I agree on the Tec not being ideal for a subaru. After some research I decided on AEM. Their new ecu is quite impressive hardware and will run everything you need. Wayne is also a dealer, I case you didn't want to make a harness...but something tells me your not afraid of wiring.
    Hi Canadian818,
    Misunderstanding, I should clear up.
    I said "this was my first book 20 years ago"
    I should have said "this was the first book I read when I got involved in electric vehicles"
    I see how that could of been misleading. Sorry.
    With last 20 years of experience I could write that book today.
    You are welcome to my paperback copy.

    I will PM you about the carpet.

    The AEM 30-6820 is a nice plug an play unit that will run everything on my engine. That was very high on my option list.
    It looks like AEM took this unit off there website recently, I guess it obsolete.
    I don't know much about the Infinity systems.
    Bob

  14. #94
    Senior Member Canadian818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Hi Canadian818,
    Misunderstanding, I should clear up.
    I said "this was my first book 20 years ago"
    I should have said "this was the first book I read when I got involved in electric vehicles"
    I see how that could of been misleading. Sorry.
    With last 20 years of experience I could write that book today.
    You are welcome to my paperback copy.

    I will PM you about the carpet.

    The AEM 30-6820 is a nice plug an play unit that will run everything on my engine. That was very high on my option list.
    It looks like AEM took this unit off there website recently, I guess it obsolete.
    I don't know much about the Infinity systems.
    Bob
    Haha, if I'm not mistaken the author was a "Bob" so I assumed. Do some reading on the infinity, impressive stuff IMO.
    Adam _____ Instagram @PopesProjects____ YouTube Channel
    818 SRX - #91
    Arrived 01/02/2014
    First Start 10/31/2016
    First Drive 05/22/2017
    Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818

  15. #95
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Wire Dissection Method, Building an ECU Panel

    Most people are using the Wire Diet method where they start with the whole wire harness and remove what they don't need.
    That's best way for most.

    I decided to go the wire dissection method, where I would cut out only the parts a wanted.
    See results.



    Then after long hours of study on best routing and location I redrew the schematic.
    Then I designed a waterproof ECU Panel.
    See results;



    That panel mounts in the firewall right in front of the motor (on the motor side).
    Most of the cables plug into the motor. The cable on the far left goes to the dash, pedal, fuse box.
    The top right cable goes to the starter, speed sensor, and neutral safety switch.
    I will use a traditional wire method for all the light, horn & starter.
    The relay on the left is the main relay and the other one is for the electronic throttle.
    The engine ECU will control the dash, fuel pump and radiator fans ,
    This CPU and wiring supports newer stuff like AVCS, DBW, and 4 coils.
    OBDII port will be under the dash.
    This panel will be covered by a blank triangle on the cockpit side to seal it shut.

    The next picture is the engine side of the ECU box.



    One of my design rules was not to have any junctions in the harness. The Subaru harness is loaded with them. I used the 6 pole stud type terminal blocks instead.
    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 04-01-2014 at 08:51 PM.

  16. #96
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Questions? Where do I start. How about, can we draft you to put together a short video and / or detailed manual with pictures detailing your process?

  17. #97
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    That looks amazing! I'm completely jealous and embarassed of my harness diet...
    818S - #67 (SOLD IT!)
    Delivered: 18 November 2013
    Go Karted: 29 December 2013
    Titled/Registered: 28 March 2014
    Finished: NEVER!
    341 hp @ 4844 RPM / 389 tq @ 3717 RPM

  18. #98
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    Questions? Where do I start. How about, can we draft you to put together a short video and / or detailed manual with pictures detailing your process?
    Starting at the ECU connectors, I would follow each wire to each connector and/or device labeling it with the ECU pin number along the way. (example: "C14" is my engine coolant temp sensor)

    Then, at the engine connectors most pins should have labels.
    There will be a few that don't (example: oil pressure switch) I labeled this "OPS" and labeled it all the way to the dash cluster.

    Once all is labeled at a device, you can cut the device out keeping as long pigtails as possible. you should end up with something similar to my first picture above.

    Figure the distance you want for each run. (Example: ECU to E2 engine connector) Then splice like labeled wires at that distance.

    This is the basic explanation of what I did.
    When I retire from my real job, I'll make a video.
    Bob

  19. #99
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeromeS13 View Post
    That looks amazing! I'm completely jealous and embarassed of my harness diet...
    Thanks Jerome,
    I had to do something while it was to cold to work on the car.
    Bob

    Edit: I've designed 100s of electrical panels in my life. This was the first one I built.
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 04-01-2014 at 02:28 PM.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Thanks Jerome,
    I had to do something while it was to cold to work on the car.
    Bob

    Edit: I've designed 100s of electrical panels in my life. This was the first one I built.
    Maybe I'll do that this summer, when it's too hot to drive a roadster? :-D
    818S - #67 (SOLD IT!)
    Delivered: 18 November 2013
    Go Karted: 29 December 2013
    Titled/Registered: 28 March 2014
    Finished: NEVER!
    341 hp @ 4844 RPM / 389 tq @ 3717 RPM

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Thanks Jerome,
    I had to do something while it was to cold to work on the car.
    Bob

    Edit: I've designed 100s of electrical panels in my life. This was the first one I built.
    Impressive wire diet. Good work.

    Standalone engine management on the Subaru engines for super high power setups (700+ whp) make sense to me, but the factory ECU is proven to reliably support very high power levels when tuned with Cobb or Open Source. A bit of work like Bob did makes for a very nice plug and play setup.

  22. #102
    Senior Member AZPete's Avatar
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    Incredible. I thought I was doing okay on my wire diet because I had labeled all the ends - well, almost all - but now I feel like an everyday idiot.
    818S/C : Chassis #25 with 06 WRX 2.5 turbo, ABS, cruise, PS, A/C, Apple CarPlay, rear camera, power windows & locks, leather & other complexities. Sold 10/19 with 5,800 miles.
    Mk3 Roadster #6228 4.6L, T45, IRS, PS, PB, ABS, Cruise, Koni's, 17" Halibrands, red w/ silver - 9K miles then sold @ Barrett-Jackson Jan 2011 (got back cash spent).

  23. #103
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Pete,

    Everyone has their strengths... I prefer the mechanical stuff.

    My wires are a mess! BUT it does run and drive...
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  24. #104
    Senior Member Doowop's Avatar
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    awesome job bob!!!
    what did you use on the wires? looks like a black mesh? Thanks

  25. #105
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doowop View Post
    awesome job bob!!!
    what did you use on the wires? looks like a black mesh? Thanks
    Thanks Everybody
    The sleeving is from McMaster

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#1459t23/=rcr8gk

    The rubber elbow are of a 98 Mercedes air breather

    http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/pcv-...tml?3593=60047

    Terminal blocks from waytek
    http://www.waytekwire.com/item/47216...CKS-STUD-TYPE/

    Wire tray from cabletiesandmore

    http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/amer...eces-p-748.php

  26. #106
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Pete,

    Everyone has their strengths... I prefer the mechanical stuff.

    My wires are a mess! BUT it does run and drive...
    Dan, you are exactly correct.
    I can do this electrical stuff with my eyes closed.

    I am amazed when I see the engines that look like new.
    I bought this "no paint" car because I am the worst bodywork guy you will ever meet.

    I would trade 5 wire diets for a nice paint job.

    Bob

  27. #107
    Senior Member Doowop's Avatar
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    thanks Bob, I first found the vinyl expandable braided sleeves that is supposed to fit over the plugs, but the wrap around is even better. does it wrap well? when you bend the harness, does it have a tendency to want to open, or does it stay together pretty well?
    Also, seems you seems to be very familiar with electrical stuff, have you ever used Amalgamating electrical tape? I was thinking it could be a good option for the wiring harness also.

  28. #108
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doowop View Post
    thanks Bob, I first found the vinyl expandable braided sleeves that is supposed to fit over the plugs, but the wrap around is even better. does it wrap well? when you bend the harness, does it have a tendency to want to open, or does it stay together pretty well?
    Also, seems you seems to be very familiar with electrical stuff, have you ever used Amalgamating electrical tape? I was thinking it could be a good option for the wiring harness also.
    The sleeve I used has the same melting point as the wire insulation. I would not use it on spark plug wires.
    It wrapped very well and seems like it will stay well.
    The OEM harness had some gooey tape in it. I used no electrical tape on any of my connections.
    Every splice and terminal was done with 3M 3:1 adhesive lined heat shrink tubing.


    http://www.waytekwire.com/datasheet/22013.pdf

    I did try some laser printed wire tags that did not work out very well.
    wire tags.jpg

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 04-02-2014 at 01:46 AM.

  29. #109
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Dan, you are exactly correct.
    I can do this electrical stuff with my eyes closed.

    I am amazed when I see the engines that look like new.
    I bought this "no paint" car because I am the worst bodywork guy you will ever meet.

    I would trade 5 wire diets for a nice paint job.

    Bob
    I'm a Mechanical Engineer but my whole life is one big mechanical and physical or even people process design and evaluation... I live for mechanical stuff at a "general" level

    I used to work at a semiconductor company, My best friend designed machines from scratch to do things that no one had done before. (on a table with a drafting machine...) Our machine shop made them, we had a guy that did wiring so damn pretty with little labels that were plastic letters and numbers that slid on the wires. He bundled wires and melted off the end with the cigarette that seemed to be always on his lips! (Imagine a workplace like that today, 30 years later!) I installed the machines and made them work. Working back and forth with the designer and the shop to rework the machine components. I then had to develop a process, operation and maint instructions and train maint and operators. The machines had to run around the clock and provide process uptime and assy yield goals. (99.99% yield) It would take a year or more to do a machine and process working on 4-5 at a time.

    I HATE WIRING! I'm severely color blind and haven't felt my hands, arms and anything below the chest for 23 years... I know my limitations!

    I love seeing all the custom work like Wayne and Erik do and Craig's machine work. I have friends that do custom turbo installations and the tuning software stuff and it's amazing, I went the Cobb route, I just want it to be reliable and work, I have no time or energy to squeeze out that last few HP. Your wire harness work is right up there. My car will be more vanilla, functional, it's intended to fill a bucket list item that I've had since college and even with 230-240 RWH will have driving capabilities far beyond my driving skills. Tho right now my DD2 shifter kart does "stretch" those skills quite a bit!

    The skill level in a wide variety of areas on the forum is remarkable. Thanks to many of them my car will be done by summer.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  30. #110
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    Hi Bob you do very nice work on your engine management system. I am also using the factory harness and ECU,I am wondering how you eliminated connectors B200/F74 Blue, and the B100/F2 Black?
    It looks like you might have put new pins into the engine connector F60 and F 61 Brown and Black. Or are there butt connectors hidden in the grey tray?
    I would like to find the correct terminals to go straight from the ECU white connectors to the brown and black engine connectors with NO splices in the run, does any body know where we can source these pins?

  31. #111
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I'm a Mechanical Engineer but my whole life is one big mechanical and physical or even people process design and evaluation... I live for mechanical stuff at a "general" level

    I used to work at a semiconductor company, My best friend designed machines from scratch to do things that no one had done before. (on a table with a drafting machine...) Our machine shop made them, we had a guy that did wiring so damn pretty with little labels that were plastic letters and numbers that slid on the wires. He bundled wires and melted off the end with the cigarette that seemed to be always on his lips! (Imagine a workplace like that today, 30 years later!) I installed the machines and made them work. Working back and forth with the designer and the shop to rework the machine components. I then had to develop a process, operation and maint instructions and train maint and operators. .
    Hi Dan
    I can relate to everything you said.

    This was the first 5 (1985) years of my career. I was start-up, training, maintenance manuals for factory automation.
    Then worked the next 5 as an engineer designing/developing the equipment.

    The next 10 best years of my career was working for a motor controller company. I got to spend all day everyday helping other start up machines in every industry. I miss that job.

    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I HATE WIRING! I'm severely color blind and haven't felt my hands, arms and anything below the chest for 23 years... I know my limitations! .
    I hate SANDING. Oh, And I can't solder, I have tremors in my hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I love seeing all the custom work like Wayne and Erik do and Craig's machine work. .
    I totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I have friends that do custom turbo installations and the tuning software stuff and it's amazing, I went the Cobb route, I just want it to be reliable and work, I have no time or energy to squeeze out that last few HP. Your wire harness work is right up there. My car will be more vanilla, functional, it's intended to fill a bucket list item that I've had since college and even with 230-240 RWH will have driving capabilities far beyond my driving skills. Tho right now my DD2 shifter kart does "stretch" those skills quite a bit! .
    My Bucket list says "build and electric super car"

    Going gas on one of the cars, I wanted to go NA. My son wants the turbo.
    The EV is mine and the turbo is his.

  32. #112
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Here is a 3d model of my ECU panel.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 3d.jpg (109.7 KB, 2871 views)

  33. #113
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Bob, I built my (dream list) electric reverse trike. I lost some interest, my son and I built it from the ground up. His senior project body wasn't to my liking and now its parked. I'll get back to it!

    Your electric work experience and electric derive exp. from the work projects for the docks etc... puts you in a great place.

    my only other original "dream list" after the sports car is a personal submarine (think, Bond, The living Daylights). That one isn't going to happen!

    Your son's car will be sweet, great working together, isn't it!
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  34. #114
    Mechie3's Avatar
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    That panel puts ours to shame!!
    Zero Decibel Motorsports
    Check out my new website!
    www.zerodecibelmotorsports.com
    www.facebook.com/zero.decibel.motorsports

  35. #115
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMC7492 View Post
    Hi Bob you do very nice work on your engine management system. I am also using the factory harness and ECU,I am wondering how you eliminated connectors B200/F74 Blue, and the B100/F2 Black?
    It looks like you might have put new pins into the engine connector F60 and F 61 Brown and Black. Or are there butt connectors hidden in the grey tray?
    I would like to find the correct terminals to go straight from the ECU white connectors to the brown and black engine connectors with NO splices in the run, does any body know where we can source these pins?
    I did not remove any pins on any connectors.
    I cut out B200/F74 Blue, and the B100/F2 Black right at those connectors.
    Mounted the ECU on the plate and routed the wires out the appropriate holes.
    Cut the wires to the appropriate length and then I butt spliced the engine connectors to the ECU wires under the sleeving.
    On the shielded wires, the splice in close to the engine connector to maintain the shield.
    Bob

  36. #116
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechie3 View Post
    That panel puts ours to shame!!
    Thanks Craig
    I think we can say the say about your mechanical/machine work.
    Bob

  37. #117
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Bob, what about your automatic donor vs manual gearbox CPU issue? same pin outs?
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  38. #118
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    Bob, what about your automatic donor vs manual gearbox CPU issue? same pin outs?
    98% the same. All the wires from the ECU to the TCM (deleted) are not connected to anything. I still have to ground one ECU pin to the to tell it that it's a manual and add one for the clutch input. Then I will have to flash a manual map into the ECU.
    Brian at IWIRE gave me good info on getting pins out of the ECU connectors. Just have not got to it yet.
    Bob

  39. #119
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Exhaust ground clearance

    I just measured my ground clearance on my exhaust.
    This is what my 04 FXT exhaust looks like:
    $_5c7.jpg

    The exhaust bottom is about 1/2" above the cockpit frame. It is about 1" below the engine compartment frame.

    I would like to go to some better flowing equal length headers that don't hang any lower.
    Does anybody have a suggestion without breaking the bank?

    These are of my 06 NA donor:
    2-1.jpg
    I like the flow and the equal length but they don't fit on a DOHC engine.
    Thanks
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 04-12-2014 at 03:54 PM.

  40. #120
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    I have been very busy the last month working on another vehicle project.
    Time to get back on the 818s ice.
    I test fit my ECU panel in the car and checked cable lengths.
    Bob

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