Bob in Cincy: see my post#24. Not uncommon. Get Arps!
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Bob in Cincy: see my post#24. Not uncommon. Get Arps!
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
No insinuation intended that you don't know what you are doing. The stock stuff just can't take the repetitive use and constant re-torquing and stress of the track.
Go wild or mild on lug nuts. I use inexpensive, heavy-duty ones from Summit. Lots of threads. 65 cents ea. Good quality/no issues.
SUM-7540021_ml.jpg
$13/set? NOTE: these won't fit all wheels. They work on my 949s and my Enkei PF01s.
Go wild with titanium@ $26 ea:
t1r_lugnuts.jpg Hmmm, where could I spend $506 more wisely?
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
Hey Scargo,
No insinuation taken. It was late and I was tired if I sounded like that.
I just measured the clearance hole on my OEM wheels at 1.2". A standard socket is no issue with the 13/16 nuts. I will check a impact thick wall socket later.
I'll pass on the titanium
Thanks
Bob
You can get a nice set of titanium nuts for $300 or less, pricey yes. but not $26 each pricey.
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
I just bought 2 cars worth of EVO ARP-100-7717 3" m12x1.50 studs.
Edit: I went with the 1" thick summit SUM-7540021 nuts. (thanks Scargo) Not so pretty but look strong.
If you don't want them to stick out so far. It looks like you can go to the shorter ARP-100-7718 Toyota studs at 2.34 long. The knurl length is 0.325 as opposed to the Subaru 0.270. The hub is .393 thick so I think no issue. This would prevent you from adding spacer.
Bob
Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 02-25-2014 at 06:02 PM.
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
HA HA no thank you... but who knows down the road.
legit nuts. they come rounded to finger spin or full depth splined (which I like)
20 12x1.5s with driver for $245
30eeb998-dcff-40a1-b0a9-39bc240e13f4-420.jpg
I'll stick with the EVO studs... sticker shock when I saw the Toyota price.
Last edited by longislandwrx; 02-26-2014 at 07:21 AM.
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
Hi Guys, I can safely assume the stud length will need to be adjusted according to the wheel thickness and if a spacer is being used.
That said, if the wheel is spaced out, and the offset of the rim pushes the wheel outwards. How far is the maximum before the bearings are being loaded further out away from the center line of the bearing, rather then just the weight of the car pushing straight down on the center of the bearings?
In the old days when we put wider rims on the front of cars and trucks the outer wheel bearing was now the load carrying bearing and failed after very short duration.
I understand the car is substantially lighter than the original WRX. But I don't want to trash the new bearings being a few hundred bucks with seals!!
For an example, Lets say there was a three foot spacer behind the wheel, now the load on the bearings are a twisting load rather than a linear load directly on the rollers of the bearing. How strong do the bearings need to be to hold that extended moment??
Last edited by DMC7492; 03-02-2014 at 05:01 PM.
Subaru's front bearing set is the same race and rollers inside and outside. I'm trying to set up mine like a race car so I'm more worried about scrub radius for my front wheel offsets than looks. I'm looking to get the scrub radius as close to zero as possible but not go negative.
Any thoughts as to what that ideal offset would be? I don't like the idea of running spacers. Does it require compromising the tire size or diameter?
Do you know any real world numbers of what RWD cars run and what's considered acceptable if you don't get to 0?
Neat link, BTW. I was fascinated by the idea that you could groove the backing plate of a disc brake pad for improved cooling. Googling that concept came up with "0".
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
I don't. Jim Schenck might know. I just don't have a chassis in front of me to measure where the imaginary line that runs through the two pivot points on the front suspension intersects the ground. Though there would be a few minor effects from variation in spring perch height and where you set your camber and caster. The biggest would be the diameter of the tires you choose to run, because that effects where "the ground" is.
I do have this for the blue R car:
Front:
Motion ratio is .795
Shock angle correction: .906
Roll center: 2.8 inches (with 215/45/17 tires at 4.5 inch ride height)
Rear:
Motion Ratio: .877
Shock angle correction: .985
Roll center: 4.0 inches (with 255/35/18 tires at 4.5 inch ride height)
I don't know if the roll centers are the simplified "Force Based Roll Center" or not (as from the link you recently posted from Racecartuner.com).
Jim S. sent them to me.
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
I would say 35-30mm offset front with an 8 inch wide wheel. For the back a 42-32mm max offset with a 9 inch rear wheel, 9.5 if you wanna push it
has anyone used a percys wheelrite?
they look very cool and would help me try out various fitments
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Percys...Fafm7AodSyUAlA
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
Hi Guys heres a picture to help understand the offset/back spacing and such.
HighPerfwheels_graph1.gif
Long Island TEA... I mean "WRX", That's a neat toy. ('spensive)
I just use cardboard and the many calculators on the internet. My favorite: http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp
Another: http://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator
I've got more
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
yeah I've just used cardboard in the past, but watch some of the youtube videos on that bad boy, pretty powerful.
I found it for much cheaper too.
A well stocked beverage fridge is the key to any successful project.
Is that spaced for the rotor?
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818 SRX - #91
Arrived 01/02/2014
First Start 10/31/2016
First Drive 05/22/2017
Registered 10/25/2019 BRAP818
I have the fine pitch ARPs and the first time I put the wheel on, just barely brushing the threads of the stud with the wheel, the threads were smashed enough to make the lug very difficult to go on... I actually skipped that stud and will run a die over it before putting a nut back on. Very annoying. Good suggestion of going with a coarser thread.
In a slight zombiefying of this thread, I thought I'd add our experience with spacers. We've run spacers on both of our non-FFR racecars for years without any discernable negative effect. A lot of internet racing experts will say that it adds stress on the lugs or elsewhere, and that's probably true. But in 5+ years of endurance racing we've never suffered a failure at the wheel, hub, or tire that we would attribute to having run a spacer. We've run up to a 20mm spacer on the rear of the MR2 and a 20(?) on the front of the e36. We have had wheel failures, but those were exclusively due to getting hit by other cars on track. I love the weight and profile of the Enkei RPF01 wheel, but it does not handle contact very well. YMMV, etc. Cheers.
As you say, "YMMV". I don't have the extensive racing experience of some. Some cars have much better wheel bearing designs and some are overbuilt. It is a fact that more stress is exerted on the wheel bearings the farther you space out a wheel, if all other things are equal. How much is something I cannot define. I know many run spacers. In fact I just got some dinky ones for my Subie because the springs were rubbing against the tires.
"Scotty, give me all the TRACTION she's got!" Pictures of what I drive till 818R is finished
Track Car Journal on IWSTI (with build info)
818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread
We use only the ARP Mitsu Evo m12x1.5 on all of our cars, along with titanium lug nuts with a 17mm drive. Perfect length, can't cross thread and since all the cars are the same, we have tones of spare nuts for enduro (at $130 per set .....)IMG_0341.JPGIMG_0342.JPG
Yes, I know... bump steer spacers....getting there!
Coming from a machining background and knowing how ARP is producing m12 wheel studs by thread rolling the blanks the Mitsu and Subi studs are probably
produced on the same blanking equipment and then separated into different part #s after thread rolling, meaning they have the same part# before the
thread is rolled. At least that is how I would try to produce those parts, cover 2 applications or many more with as little equipment and tooling overhead
as possible and maximize lot sizes and minimize setups.
What length nuts do you use ? I will be using these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._detailpages00
Last edited by FFRSpec72; 03-08-2016 at 10:10 PM.
Tony Nadalin
2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
2015 SCCA Oregon Region VP3 Champion
2012 ICSCC ITE Class Champion
FFR MkII Challenge Car, Spec Racer, Street Legal, SCCA, ICSCC and NASA Racing
818R Build in progress